First time posting & looking for an ear to listen.

Old 03-14-2015, 09:21 AM
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First time posting & looking for an ear to listen.

I started reading this forum recently but I've never posted here or anywhere.

The short of it: I was married a majority of my life.. my ex-husband & I were together since childhood. He eventually grew up to be a narcissistic controlling jerk, but he was really all I knew. Things weren't great but I was a stay at home mom, we had a family, a mortgage, & what looked like a normal life, so I hung in there faithfully.. Until one day at 40 he suddenly ran off with a barely legal teenage girl full of facial piercings he met online. Ya can't make this stuff up.

I was completely devastated but I created a new life, got a job, and made a home for my two sons, now 14 & 16. And... I remarried. Too soon. I was overly anxious to re create a family, or the feeling of a family, or at least the appearance of it. I'm now about a year and a half into this new marriage.

My husband is handsome, he's fit, intelligent, he's not controlling, he doesn't look at other women, he's basically a nice guy, nicer than I had ever known. But.. he's an alcoholic. In the 2+ years since he's lived in my home (it's ours but my kids and I were here and he joined us) he has barely contributed anything financially. His trade is foreign language translation and he has worked very little. He gets a document to work on here and there, but nothing steady. Most of what he makes goes to child support from his former marriage. He's had a couple of jobs, but he quits after a few weeks when it's "no fun." I've had to work very low paying, no fun jobs constantly to support all of us. At first, I was in that "honeymoon" stage with him.. and my new independent life in general, and I didn't really mind. The honeymoon is now over and I mind. I come home after an 8-10 hour day of a physical labor job to find him sitting at the computer, surrounded by a mess of books, papers & dishes, watching funny videos and telling me "he's tired."

As for creating that "family," it didn't happen. He is cordial with my sons but has no interest in a relationship with them.

He drinks during the day while I work but he thinks I dont notice. He drinks in the evenings until he falls asleep. He's not verbally or physically aggressive-- he just fades out and I end up alone. He has to purchase alcohol every evening in order to limit himself. If he has 6 beers in the house, he drinks 6. If he has 32 beers in the house, he drinks 32. There's no off switch once he gets started.

Every few weeks he "sees the light" or has a health scare, and talks excitedly of big plans to quit drinking and get his life together. That lasts anywhere between a couple of hours and a couple of days. He's often more difficult to deal with when he's NOT drinking because his moods are all over the place and he's emotionally distant.

Very often when he tries to take a night off drinking, he does this: We are sitting together having a good evening and suddenly without warning, he tries to create some little drama to get an excuse to storm out of the house and drink. Example, last night my kids came back from a dinner out with their dad. My 14 year old has mild autism and his dad makes him so nervous that he often doesnt eat most of his food-- he always brings it home and eats it later in the evening. My husband knows this, but he reached in the fridge and stuffed all of the food in his mouth. I was kindve dumbfounded when I saw him do it, and I said "Really.. did you just do that?" IMMEDIATELY he got defensive and loud & complained that my kids aren't the center of the universe, that he should be able to eat their food without "fear of them bitching about it." (To me it's just about respect for others belongings.) It was so out of character for him. He then got his coat and ran out the door, dramatically saying that he needed to get out of this house if he was going to be under "constant surveillance." An hour later he staggered in drunk and went to bed.

It's a constant pattern with him, either look for a problem and poke at it or create one, then bolt out the door and drink, as if he was driven to do it. A couple of times he's even driven 150 miles away to his parents house and told me he should never have gotten married. He always returns within a day or two and wants to work things out. It's so uncomfortable to share a home and a life with someone who is loving one moment, then in the blink of an eye, runs out the door. I feel we're always 1 word away from him walking out again. As a result, I stuff my emotions down and & resentment builds.

This morning he was back in the "well maybe you should just file for divorce if I'm such a bad person" mode as he packed his car to visit mom & dad again. (Who have house FULL of alcohol, btw.) It all seems to be a self fulfilling prophecy-- he believes his relationships are doomed to fail so he behaves in a way that makes it happen. Its like a passive aggressive way of making me be the one to choose ending the relationship. I know that's what happened in his 1st marriage. His initial story was that she coldly surprised him with divorce papers for no reason, then later I found that 15 years of watching him almost drink himself to death in front of their sons just took an understandable toll on her.

I want the marriage. I love him. I hate divorce. Not for religious reasons, but just good character & commitment reasons. The relationship is not perfect but in general we are a passionate, romantic, fun couple. The alcohol powered roller coaster is making me feel sick though.

Any friendly words of wisdom? I know I can't fix him and it's up to him to help himself, but in the meantime I'm barely making ends meet & providing for my kids as I support his "lifestyle." Sometimes I don't know if I should just cut my losses & give up. The thought of that absolutely goes against everything in me.

Thanks for listening.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:32 AM
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Hello and welcome. I'm glad you're here, but sorry you are in position to need this kind of support.

Before anything else, I just want to let you know that I had a hard time with the idea that there is a difference between "giving up" and "letting go."

But that's getting way ahead of ourselves here. First and foremost, it's imperative that you a) educate yourself about alcoholism, and b) build a support network for you (online here at SR is a great place to start, but face to face, real world support is invaluable as well).

The first thing I was told about alcoholism were the three C's: I didn't Cause it, I can't Control it, and I can't Cure it. This disease is entirely your husband's problem to deal with. It's not one that you can wish away or ignore until it gets better on its own.

Of course that does not mean that you and your children are not profoundly affected by living with an active addict in the house. You have already felt the financial burdens of the disease, and the emotional ones. It sounds like you and your kids are living in a minefield. You'll never be able to dig them all up on your own, and until your husband recognizes the problem and decides to seek help of his own free will, the best you will ever be able to do is manage.

When you say that cutting your losses goes against everything in you, can you elaborate on that some more? Where does that come from?
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:41 AM
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I got teary eyed just because you replied, I haven't really been able to discuss this with anyone and it makes it seem so "real" now.
I just believe in commitment, in not bailing out just because things aren't going as planned, or just because someone is sick. I would want to be loved unconditionally by my spouse, so I try to love unconditionally. The situation at this point is just kind've an uncomfortable burden, not grounds for giving up. I just know that in my last marriage things went downhill so slowly that the misery became normal and I never even noticed how awful of a situation I was in until I got out. I certainly don't want to wait to get to that point.
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Old 03-14-2015, 09:43 AM
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Hello and welcome. You say "I want the marriage". Be honest with yourself you want the IDEA of marriage and this is not it. Can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse, sorry. Perhaps you should reflect on why you think you need a man/husband to feel whole or happy? That's what Al-Anon is there for to help you figure all that out. Good luck!
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by MrsD View Post
as if he was driven to do it.
He is. Trust me, he is.

Alcoholism drives EVERYTHING an alcoholic does. It is also progressive, which means that unless/until he makes a REAL commitment to recovery, this is the best you are ever going to get from this relationship. Eating your autistic son's food right in front of him is abusive behavior. Your kids ARE being affected by this.

You don't have to make any immediate decisions. My suggestion is that you learn all you can about alcoholism--right here at SR is a great place to begin. There is also an excellent book called "Under the Influence" that is good primer on alcoholism. AA's "Big Book" is another good read--you can read that online here: Big Book Online. Second, I would suggest you find an Al-Anon meeting and start going to that. It's great to be able to talk face-to-face with other people who "get it" and to learn what you can do to help YOURSELF.

Unfortunately, there isn't much you can do to hurry along his desire to get sober. Some people never get there.
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:09 AM
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MrsD....I say this in the friendliest way....it seems like your identity is more tied up in the concept of marriage (and all that that implies) than your own personal happiness.

I think that, so often, we grow up learning certain "rules" of how to behave in a nornal relationship--where there is mutuality and reciprocity and a nurturing give and that kind of interdependence. Where people thrive, and, not just endure.
What we don't usually get to learn is that there are certain situations where the "normal" rules get turned on their head. ADDICTIONS AND ABUSE are deal breakers in any relationship.
Those conditions are so disruptive in their dynamics....that normal and healthy cannot be achieved.

To try to make it work..because we soo desperately want it not to be true, is l ike trying to force a square peg into a round hole.

Just because you feel like you "love" a person...or that they have some attractive qualities..or you have some good times interspersed with the bad....is not enough to make a relationship work. Sadly, for many of us.

I think that you must be in a l ot of pain...or you wouldn't be writing to us on the forum.
Good for you that you have decided to be talking about it.

You have just taken the first step to facing the reality...
The first step is usually the most important step of all....

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Old 03-14-2015, 10:22 AM
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"it seems like your identity is more tied up in the concept of marriage"

You're right. It is.
I remember being so embarrassed to use the words "ex-husband" & "single mother" & "the kids are at their dad's apartment."

I am a caretaker, I have spent my whole existence taking care of others. My ex husband never even poured his own coffee. I was a homemaker for 13 years and I had nothing else but an identity as a wife & mom. I went to private school as a child and when I reconnected with my friends, they were doctors & lawyers & scientists.. I had nothing but an old bachelor's in psych that I never even used. I felt like a long marriage was all I had going for me.

And my parents have been married 48 years. Grandparents 65 years before my grandfather died. It's just what I feel I'm supposed to do.

But having said all that, I do genuinely like the concept of unconditional love and commitment.
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Old 03-14-2015, 10:41 AM
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MrsD.....I really do get where you are coming from...more than you probably imagine.

From where I set...I suspect that a lot of what you describe is from cultural expectations--the culture of your immediate environment that you grew up in...especially your family.
From where I grew up---Rural AND urban West Virginia.....this is the norm for lots of women..even as we speak.
Also, the self image that you developed during your growing-up years...from you particular family dynamics has a big impact.
As we go into adulthood--we typically have to "review" what we were taught at the parental knee...and, determine which of those ideas and values we truly can internalize as our own. Some, we cling to because they work for us...and, some we discard because they don't work for us in our adult life. What worked for our parents doesn't ALWAYS work for us. This whole process which usually occurs between late teen and the next couple of decades is generally labeled as individuation. It is just another of the developmental stages that we all have to go through (whether we like it or not..lol!)
I sure as hell did....caused some conflict with my family from time to time, also...LOL!
But--guess what? Everybody got over it and nobody died!
(I was the first in my family to ever get a divorce, also).


all of this is just to say....I understand what you are struggling with....

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Old 03-14-2015, 10:44 AM
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My ex was a drinker as was I at the time. When I stopped and he carried on his strange behaviour it drove me round the bend. We had to part company in the end. Put you and the children first. I like being on my own now, in fact, I love it. No shame in being your own person although it takes a bit of getting used to. xxxx
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:19 AM
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I absolutely like the idea of unconditional love but it means to me that I must accept the person for exactly who and what they are. While there are only extremes I do think it possible I could stop loving my husband or kids. Some things might be unforgivable.

It sounds to me as if you may not even really know this man. You rushed right into marriage. What if he were to get sober and you discovered you have nothing in common?

As a recovering alcoholic I just want you to know that for many of us who do find recovery it doesn't happen until we have laid waste to just about everything in our lives. Including causing great emotional harm to our families.
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:40 AM
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Though I definitely rushed into marriage, I do know him. We share a lot of common goals and beliefs and dreams. When it's good, it's great. It just changes so quickly when alcohol is involved, whether he's drinking it.. or not drinking it but wanting to.

I think a big problem for us is, although he knows he has a problem and admits it... is that he does not see that it has anything to do with our problems. He sees it as a whole separate thing, when it is actually the root of it. As if it's always about my mood or my reactions, never him & the drinking.

I'm sure the "caregiver" in me inadvertently seeked out the alcoholic.
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Old 03-14-2015, 11:46 AM
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Have you read "Codependent No More"?

It's a book many of us have read, found very helpful, and suggest to others.

It might give you some additional insight into the "caregiver" dynamic you have identified.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by MrsD View Post
Though I definitely rushed into marriage, I do know him. We share a lot of common goals and beliefs and dreams. When it's good, it's great. It just changes so quickly when alcohol is involved, whether he's drinking it.. or not drinking it but wanting to.

I think a big problem for us is, although he knows he has a problem and admits it... is that he does not see that it has anything to do with our problems. He sees it as a whole separate thing, when it is actually the root of it. As if it's always about my mood or my reactions, never him & the drinking.

I'm sure the "caregiver" in me inadvertently seeked out the alcoholic.
I thought the same thing about my ex. We wanted the same things, shared the same dreams, could have a perfect family life, if only...That was part of what kept me stuck with my ex for so long, the fantasy of what our life COULD be if he would just get his act together and sober up.
Sadly things aren't that simple with an alcoholic. His only real goal involves drinking uninterrupted. Sounds like he has a pretty good system in place for keeping the status quo. He gives lip service to the idea that he knows he has a problem, wants help, etc, but never takes any real action toward recovery. Then the whole cycle starts over again.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:18 PM
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Yesss you are exactly right about the fantasy of what COULD be. I think that keeps me hanging on too. He even mentioned the "future that could be" as he was going out the door again this morning. We both love travel and learning new languages and we could go anywhere in the world in a few years when the kids are grown. But none of that means anything if he's sick or dead at that point.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:42 PM
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I also believe in love, and in standing by those you care about through difficult times. But it has to be a two-way street - a mutual exchange of caring and support.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but what exactly does he contribute to the marriage?
You've described a man who is OK with you supporting him, who is apparently oblivious to your understandable exhaustion (so much so that he talks about how tired he is after YOU come home from a full day's work), who not only shows no interest in being a father to your sons but, in the incident with the food, puts his needs/desires ahead of theirs (BTW this is not adult behaviour), and who physically leaves the house or "fades out" regularly with his drinking.

Whatever his qualities may be as an individual, he does not sound ready or able to be a partner to you; so the unconditional love you are giving him is more like a parent's love for their child, rather than a wife's love for her (equally contributing) partner. Is that what you want?

You sound like a strong, courageous person who not only managed to build a new life after being dealt a devastating blow, but also managed to stay positive and keep believing in love. I think that's a good thing as long as your idea of what love looks like/feels like is healthy. You say your husband is "not controlling, he doesn't look at other women, he's basically a nice guy, nicer than I had ever known." Is it possible, given your previous experience, that your expectations are too low? Should a man really get credit for NOT being controlling or cheating?

I too am a caretaker, and I also tried to love an alcoholic husband out of his illness for years. For a long time I managed to ignore the problems by focusing on the "good stuff" - he was intelligent, funny, he occasionally helped with the laundry... After a while none of that outweighed the fact that he was less and less present in the relationship. His primary focus was alcohol. And even when I realized that, I clung on for a while longer because I refused to abandon him, and you know, it could be worse - he didn't hit me like some alcoholics do; he didn't cheat, crash the car, etc.

Looking back I recognize this as insanity. No-one can heal another person - they have to do that for themselves. And talking about recovery means nothing - it's all about ACTION.

Here are a couple of things people on this board told me when I first shared my story, that may be useful to you:

"Consistently being under the influence while married and expecting the marriage to be treated like it's a sacred relationship is not merely rude and disrespectful, it's delusional."

And even more importantly,
"This is your life too.
Your life matters.
Your happiness is important."
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:53 PM
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Just a PS in response to your later post, about "the future that could be."

I think all of us, but perhaps especially women, are conditioned almost from birth to believe in and dream about "what could be." Some day my prince will come. Kiss the right frog and he'll turn into a prince. See beyond the beast and love him, and he'll turn into a prince as well. It's everywhere - fairy tales, Disney, even 50 Shades of Grey.

It's a powerful fantasy. And it's noxious bullsh*t. There is a terrible difference between two equally evolved people bringing out the best in each other (because each one has done or is doing their own self-development work first), and one partner working and enduring and agonizing year after year hoping to realize the other's "potential."

But in the meantime, what happens to your potential? You only get one life. Carpe diem.
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Old 03-14-2015, 12:55 PM
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The flip side of being a caretaker, and putting up with emotional abuse while carrying the financial burden as you described it is that it leads to resentment. So much of what you wrote resonated with me--the whole thing about him being "too good" for some jobs, while you throw yourself out there and do whatever it takes to raise your kids and put food on the table. It's not fair, and you're right to feel that way.

I've heard that resentment is a killer--literally. I'm not saying that you do feel resentful of the unequal share of the burden of the relationship, but I would, and I have.

I agree that you might want to read more about codependency, and other "extreme self-care" books like those of Cheryl Richardson. I used to roll my eyes at women who were assertive in communicating their way, or getting their mani-pedis every week, or posting pictures on Facebook of them and their SOs on a beach on an island, until I realized there is nothing at all wrong about them just looking out for themselves, and it makes life a lot more fun, too.

If you do decide at some point that you are not into commitment with this person, at least he hasn't done much to establish a relationship with your kids, so sounds like it would not be much of a loss to them.

Good luck to you. You do have tons of people here on this site who know exactly what you're going through, so keep coming back.
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Old 03-14-2015, 01:16 PM
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I honestly think the folks on this forum are the most useful & helpful I've ever dealt with in my life, and I only posted for the first time a few hours ago! I really appreciate the responses so much. I wish I had had something like this when I was married before. I suffered silently for so long.

No, you're exactly right, he's truly not contributing much to the marriage. And yes, whether I have ever admitted it to myself or not, I have lowered expectations. My ex husband was controlling, he somehow manipulated me into accepting not being allowed to work or have a bank account the entire time we were married. My name was not on our home or my car. When he left, I had nothing and a credit score of zero. I couldn't get a job with no experience, I couldn't get an apartment (my parents bought a house & rent it to me) I couldn't even get the electricity turned on in the house without credit, I had to scrape together a huge deposit. The ex was abusive mentally & physically, he drank and got even meaner, and he was addicted to pornography & started inviting girls over to his amateur "studio" to take naked pictures. (Where he met the teenage pincushion online.) He was absolutely horrible and still is. He's actually only allowed supervised visitation with the kids at this point, in a public place only. I could go on and on... but I digress.

I guess my point is that after all that... geez no one looks too bad. I told a friend once "I work for crumbs" from men. He empties the dishwasher once out of 100 times I do it.. and I just gratefully eat that little crumb right up. He contributes crumbs to this marriage, and if not for all I dealt with for all those years, I would better be able to see the insanity of working for the crumbs. As it is, I just think gosh, he's not into porn & teenage girls, he doesnt hit me & demand sex, he's a good guy who drinks & zones out is not always empathetic and in tune with my needs. I know darn well that's no justification, but I'm being honest.

"You teach people how to treat you" and I always teach them I don't need or want or deserve anything. Once I realize I've done that, then I'm not really sure how to take it back and make them realize that's not the case.

So.... now you're thinking, "Geez this woman has more problems than the alcoholic!" and I probably do. I guess no one would willingly subject themselves to the daily struggles of loving & sharing a home & a life with an alcoholic unless something was a little troubled within themselves too. I really had no business getting into a relationship before working out all the past a little better. But.. I did. A wise friend told me "Your people picker is gonna be messed up if you dont deal with what the ex did to you." SO very true.

I realize that just because things could be much worse, that does not make things good.

Again, thank you all SO MUCH for all this advice and your thoughts. It's funny how you're picking up on things from a few paragraphs of my writing that most people who've known me for 40 years never have.
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Old 03-14-2015, 01:31 PM
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MrsD....if he were to really make the connection between the alcoholism and the problems in your relationship....it would be the pits for him. He would have to shoulder the "blame" (responsibility). He would have to give up drinking.
That is the very last thing in the world that an alcoholic wants to do. It seems like life would not be liveable. It is like oxygen. It enables them to deal with life..and the positive and negative emotions. Without alcohol...it would be like plucking the wings off a fly. The very thought of never having another drink is, literally, unimaginable.

Denial is a hallmark of the disease...and is a necessary tool for the alcoholic. It enables them to protect their disease. Denial enables their actions to be logical and reasonable (to them).

To you...alcohol is the problem. To the alcoholic....alcohol is the solution.

The alcoholic doesn't drink to hurt you...or, even want to hurt you even though it may). It has nothing to do with you. It is all about the need to protect the ability to drink. It is just what an alcoholic does.

If you would like a much better explanation of how the alcoholic mind works.....
Do a google search for: bmawellness.com select the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, M.D.
There are several excellent articles by him. You might especially appreciate the following two:
1. "Addiction, Lies, and Relationships"
2. "Excuses Alcoholic Make"

These were especially helpful to me.

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Old 03-14-2015, 01:41 PM
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MesD....you write about power...."how do I take it back and make them realize that this is not the case".

Hon, you can take your power back...but you may never get them to see things your way.
You will have to be willing to let go of other peoples reactions to you. Their reactions are their problem to deal with...and, you have absolutely no control over that.
Don't have to JADE....J--justify A--argue D--defend E--explain.

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