Why are non-drinkers viewed by society...
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Why are non-drinkers viewed by society...
with such distain? This is a generalization, but an accurate one. Is it because non-drinkers provide a mirror to drinkers who may feel guilty about their intake? Is it a left over effect of moralization (esp from the prohibition)? Is it that misery loves company?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
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I disagree that society views non drinkers that way. I think our addiction seeks examples of this, but largely I don't see it at all on a day to day basis. Sure, if you hang out at bar they might, but most people drink very little or not at all.
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It depends, if I was a "non drinker" all my life no one would bat an eye lid, "oh that's PK, he doesn't drink" because nothing would have ever been any different.
The problem I found was that the more I drank, the more situations I put myself in that involved drink, and the more people I hung out with that drank, so naturally an announcement of "I don't drink" or "I'll have a cranberry juice this evening" is going to create a reaction in that particular environment, with those particular people.
But if Mr Teetotal walks in and has a cranberry juice as always, that's normal and accepted.
I also think that in my mind alcohol was the centre of the social universe, and so I had a fear and almost preempted or expected a reaction, but it really isn't the centre of the social universe, the reactions though probably seem worse than they really are when viewed from an alcoholic perception, as we view them through the glasses tinted with plenty of fear and emotion!!
My mum doesn't drink, and never has, no one bats and eye when she orders a coke, and I have a friend who for religious reasons doesn't drink, and again no one cares, which makes me believe some of it is from the position we view it from!!
But in general I think most of the world really doesn't care what we do or don't do, we only think they do!!
The problem I found was that the more I drank, the more situations I put myself in that involved drink, and the more people I hung out with that drank, so naturally an announcement of "I don't drink" or "I'll have a cranberry juice this evening" is going to create a reaction in that particular environment, with those particular people.
But if Mr Teetotal walks in and has a cranberry juice as always, that's normal and accepted.
I also think that in my mind alcohol was the centre of the social universe, and so I had a fear and almost preempted or expected a reaction, but it really isn't the centre of the social universe, the reactions though probably seem worse than they really are when viewed from an alcoholic perception, as we view them through the glasses tinted with plenty of fear and emotion!!
My mum doesn't drink, and never has, no one bats and eye when she orders a coke, and I have a friend who for religious reasons doesn't drink, and again no one cares, which makes me believe some of it is from the position we view it from!!
But in general I think most of the world really doesn't care what we do or don't do, we only think they do!!
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I think it is the other way around. Society (as a whole) looks down on alcoholics and heavy drinkers with disdain.
While it is socially acceptable to have a few drinks or for young people to go through a party stage, people who drink heavily and get intoxicated are considered untrustworthy.
Who would a parent entrust their child to? A sitter who is known to drink a few or a teetotaler?
With equal qualifications who would get the promotion? Someone who doesn't drink or someone who shows up hangover?
Our immediate social circle (we tend to attract people who are similar) who might be into drinking and partying and family are not representative of society at large
While it is socially acceptable to have a few drinks or for young people to go through a party stage, people who drink heavily and get intoxicated are considered untrustworthy.
Who would a parent entrust their child to? A sitter who is known to drink a few or a teetotaler?
With equal qualifications who would get the promotion? Someone who doesn't drink or someone who shows up hangover?
Our immediate social circle (we tend to attract people who are similar) who might be into drinking and partying and family are not representative of society at large
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I agree with what was said above, Art. Other than that, I'm also wondering why you are entertaining this question. Be careful not to give it too much time, it sounds like a thought process that can trick us into drinking again.
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Originally Posted by haennie 
I agree with what was said above, Art. Other than that, I'm also wondering why you are entertaining this question. Be careful not to give it too much time, it sounds like a thought process that can trick us into drinking again.
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Hi, Artfriend! Good topic to bring up! You are exactly right when you said non-drinkers provide a mirror to drinkers.
There were many times in my drinking career that I looked at sober individuals and had so much respect for them. On the other hand, I had a deep disgust too. I could not control my drinking and that made me feel uncomfortable around them. It made me angry watching them be so cheerful while I was holding the poison that was ruining my life.
There were many times in my drinking career that I looked at sober individuals and had so much respect for them. On the other hand, I had a deep disgust too. I could not control my drinking and that made me feel uncomfortable around them. It made me angry watching them be so cheerful while I was holding the poison that was ruining my life.
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Yeah, I'm in agreement with others here Art.
In my work social circle, there's a guy that doesn't drink any more than one or two. He usually just says "no thanks" at work happy hours when everyone else keeps ordering rounds.
I know that during my bad phases of drinking, I always think he's lame or I'll even be like "hey man, take a shot with us!" During times when I'm trying to cut back, or stop completely, like now, I realize that when I was the drunk, I was the jerk and he was the one able to hold a coherent conversation and get home with no issues and then be at work at 8:30AM ready to go.
I think it's us alcoholics that view the non/light drinkers in disdain, probably because we wish we had that control.
In my work social circle, there's a guy that doesn't drink any more than one or two. He usually just says "no thanks" at work happy hours when everyone else keeps ordering rounds.
I know that during my bad phases of drinking, I always think he's lame or I'll even be like "hey man, take a shot with us!" During times when I'm trying to cut back, or stop completely, like now, I realize that when I was the drunk, I was the jerk and he was the one able to hold a coherent conversation and get home with no issues and then be at work at 8:30AM ready to go.
I think it's us alcoholics that view the non/light drinkers in disdain, probably because we wish we had that control.
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there's a small brewpub in my town. My down has 20-something-thousand people in it. On any given thursday, friday or saturday night, one might find any of perhaps a thousand people passing through that brewpub. Perhaps not even that many.....
While it's true that one might find a bit of disdain among certain of the patrons of that brewpub in reaction to "I don't drink" - it's also true that all across town, upwards of 19-thousand-something other people who are NOT sitting in a brewpub.... many of whom wouldn't care less whether anyone was drinking or not.
Also - perhaps 60-80% of that thousand people passing through the brewpub are actually just the same people, over and over again, night after night; drinking.
It turns out; there are lots of people in my town who don't really care about drinking or for whom drinking is just an occasional indulgence or who simply don't drink at all.
It also turns out; there are entire vast swaths of the world where one can travel for days, weeks, even months without encountering a bottle of alcohol.....
The bottom line is - we see what we choose to look for.
While it's true that one might find a bit of disdain among certain of the patrons of that brewpub in reaction to "I don't drink" - it's also true that all across town, upwards of 19-thousand-something other people who are NOT sitting in a brewpub.... many of whom wouldn't care less whether anyone was drinking or not.
Also - perhaps 60-80% of that thousand people passing through the brewpub are actually just the same people, over and over again, night after night; drinking.
It turns out; there are lots of people in my town who don't really care about drinking or for whom drinking is just an occasional indulgence or who simply don't drink at all.
It also turns out; there are entire vast swaths of the world where one can travel for days, weeks, even months without encountering a bottle of alcohol.....
The bottom line is - we see what we choose to look for.
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I did encounter people who were disappointed that I don't drink, or don't drink anymore. It was because they use alcohol as a coping tool themselves. Guys who think that going out with a woman should typically involve alcohol at some point, for example. Or the person whose hobby is collecting wine and knowing all about wine; he never had a problem with it, just passionate about it. Unfortunately we are not going to mix with such people well. But it's really the minority.
Also, people who knew us as heavy drinkers, our old drinking buddies, may react that way simply because they don't get the change.
Also, people who knew us as heavy drinkers, our old drinking buddies, may react that way simply because they don't get the change.
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I think there is duplicity in society where we are told of the dangers of drink, yet when one doesn't drink it is looked at with some suspicion. Non-drinkers are often given looks of pity or a shrug (like I don't understand you), They are often told that they could "relax" with a drink or "have more fun". In group settings, if everyone else drinks, the non-drinker is often times made to feel socially isolated. Sometimes non-drinkers are accused of taking a morally superior attitude. I know all this because I used to be that non-drinker before I became an alcoholic.
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in my experience.... all of those things only tend to happen when one is amongst a crowd of heavy drinkers.
I agree with you those things happen....
But typically they happen when in the context of people who have chosen to place alcohol at the center of their world.
I agree with you those things happen....
But typically they happen when in the context of people who have chosen to place alcohol at the center of their world.
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Misery loves company for sure!! Why else, when we were drinking, would we insist on people around us to drink with us? Or we would single out that person that is a "lightweight" and insist they do shots with us. We surround ourselves with like minded people.
I disagree with the disdain part. As its already been said, back when I was drinking, I would view non/light drinkers with disdain. How can I trust someone that wont even have one silly drink? whats one drink? come on now!! As the night would go on and I would realize for a brief moment that I repeated the same story 4 times to the same sober person and that now Im holding the walls up when I walk around, not to mention Im a hot mess and am slurring my words. I do believe I got teary eyed over a story of a cat that died 20 years ago with another drunk person. omg. thats why my mascara is smeared! Who is the trustworthy person now? the hot mess me that at that point would probably do just about anything for another drink and not remember a thing the next day, even tho at that moment im telling myself I will remember all of this. Or that poor sober person my drunk self was drawn to all night long. lol I think its the alcoholics that have disdain towards the sober. Just my opinion.
I disagree with the disdain part. As its already been said, back when I was drinking, I would view non/light drinkers with disdain. How can I trust someone that wont even have one silly drink? whats one drink? come on now!! As the night would go on and I would realize for a brief moment that I repeated the same story 4 times to the same sober person and that now Im holding the walls up when I walk around, not to mention Im a hot mess and am slurring my words. I do believe I got teary eyed over a story of a cat that died 20 years ago with another drunk person. omg. thats why my mascara is smeared! Who is the trustworthy person now? the hot mess me that at that point would probably do just about anything for another drink and not remember a thing the next day, even tho at that moment im telling myself I will remember all of this. Or that poor sober person my drunk self was drawn to all night long. lol I think its the alcoholics that have disdain towards the sober. Just my opinion.
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Great topic.
During my longer stints of sobriety, I felt the same way. That I get those weird looks and am the odd one out. And when drinking, I'd dole out the occasional "what a wuss!" to the non-drinker, which later ringed a bell that I was being a douchebag to the only respectable person in the bunch who was just hanging around his friends and couldn't help that the friends were frequent boozers.
I think it comes down to how we ourselves view drinking. As said earlier, no one bats an eye, when you've never been a drinker and order a juice at the bar. But if you've spent some time with booze, it's rather that you feel guilty about your own earlier actions and take offense to those remarks. When I was 6 months sober, I felt that these comments had little to no effect on me, they just passed me by without me actually claiming any sort of moral high-ground. Just didn't care.
I think it also matters how reasonable is the person who is making such observations. Reasonable persons, if they say anything at all, they say it's a good thing you're doing by abstaining/cutting back. If he/she is not so reasonable, they say those 'you are a wuss!', 'come on, relax, have drink' etc. And they don't stop at one try either, but push the agenda for the whole night.
Some of it is connected with the environment and culture you live in. Not directly the culture, but its off-shoot in the form of 'how probable is it that you'll counter a situation where drinking is involved'. My town of 5 thousand people has 3 bars and the crowd, I'd assume, is pretty much the same there weekend in, weekend out. As for the non-drinkers, it's usually pretty difficult to witness one in a bar, as, I'd assume, that is not their venue of choice most of the time.
During my longer stints of sobriety, I felt the same way. That I get those weird looks and am the odd one out. And when drinking, I'd dole out the occasional "what a wuss!" to the non-drinker, which later ringed a bell that I was being a douchebag to the only respectable person in the bunch who was just hanging around his friends and couldn't help that the friends were frequent boozers.
I think it comes down to how we ourselves view drinking. As said earlier, no one bats an eye, when you've never been a drinker and order a juice at the bar. But if you've spent some time with booze, it's rather that you feel guilty about your own earlier actions and take offense to those remarks. When I was 6 months sober, I felt that these comments had little to no effect on me, they just passed me by without me actually claiming any sort of moral high-ground. Just didn't care.
I think it also matters how reasonable is the person who is making such observations. Reasonable persons, if they say anything at all, they say it's a good thing you're doing by abstaining/cutting back. If he/she is not so reasonable, they say those 'you are a wuss!', 'come on, relax, have drink' etc. And they don't stop at one try either, but push the agenda for the whole night.
Some of it is connected with the environment and culture you live in. Not directly the culture, but its off-shoot in the form of 'how probable is it that you'll counter a situation where drinking is involved'. My town of 5 thousand people has 3 bars and the crowd, I'd assume, is pretty much the same there weekend in, weekend out. As for the non-drinkers, it's usually pretty difficult to witness one in a bar, as, I'd assume, that is not their venue of choice most of the time.
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend
with such distain? This is a generalization, but an accurate one. Is it because non-drinkers provide a mirror to drinkers who may feel guilty about their intake? Is it a left over effect of moralization (esp from the prohibition)? Is it that misery loves company?
Thoughts?
Thoughts?
D
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I think some who drink are annoyed because they want someone who will drink with them. Drinking with a sober person you know you look like a fool to them.
But it shouldn't seriously bother someone who doesn't have a drinking problem
But it shouldn't seriously bother someone who doesn't have a drinking problem
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