Talking to an Alcoholic friend about my xabf
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Talking to an Alcoholic friend about my xabf
I have this friend who was my best friend in high school. Over the years she has become a black out alcoholic that rages...
I have learned to distance myself from her, but we still talk occasionally with no real consequences other than to catch up and what not...
I told her of my recent situation with my xabf and how I still love him, but I left him. We talked and talked and I made it clear to her that his recovering is going to be his choice.
She says, "Dude, what happened to your heart? This isn't like you at all? You didn't even ask him why he drinks? Does he suffer ptsd? (military; both of them)...
And she asked if I was so jaded by past loves that I couldn't care enough about him to be there for him or understand him...
I told her no, I never asked him why. I resolved to ask him. I figured, well, I never even bothered trying to get to the bottom of his nonsense because I just figured, what's the point? No matter what his reasons, he still chooses to drink. But, I asked...
The answer...? He doesn't know why. He just does.
And like a damn codie, I started to think of all the BS this man has suffered in his life and how he has carried it around all these years and it has morphed into this addiction for him. I have since stopped myself from trying to figure it out or tell him all the grand advice I have stock piled for him. But what an eye opener! HE HAS NO IDEA WHY!?!?
Looks like the emotional maturity isn't what I thought and he is more insecure in my mind today than he was yesterday...
I have learned to distance myself from her, but we still talk occasionally with no real consequences other than to catch up and what not...
I told her of my recent situation with my xabf and how I still love him, but I left him. We talked and talked and I made it clear to her that his recovering is going to be his choice.
She says, "Dude, what happened to your heart? This isn't like you at all? You didn't even ask him why he drinks? Does he suffer ptsd? (military; both of them)...
And she asked if I was so jaded by past loves that I couldn't care enough about him to be there for him or understand him...
I told her no, I never asked him why. I resolved to ask him. I figured, well, I never even bothered trying to get to the bottom of his nonsense because I just figured, what's the point? No matter what his reasons, he still chooses to drink. But, I asked...
The answer...? He doesn't know why. He just does.
And like a damn codie, I started to think of all the BS this man has suffered in his life and how he has carried it around all these years and it has morphed into this addiction for him. I have since stopped myself from trying to figure it out or tell him all the grand advice I have stock piled for him. But what an eye opener! HE HAS NO IDEA WHY!?!?
Looks like the emotional maturity isn't what I thought and he is more insecure in my mind today than he was yesterday...
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You're friend is still in the midst of her disease. She is still thinking with the mind of an addict, that is to say in denial and basically parasitic. Addicts can't believe that anyone should want to protect themselves from them. When we do try to understand them and "be there for them" all we get used up and tossed aside. Here's what happened to you're heart. You picked it up and decided not to put it into the hands of someone who didn't know how to care for it because they didn't have one of their own. In the long run it doesn't matter why they drink if they are not willing to stop. You knowing why it rains won't stop the rain.
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I honestly don't blame you for asking. Heck, he could have been at a point where someone even bothering to ask made him feel like he could tackle this and seek recovery. But, he wasn't, and you got a typical answer for someone not even close to wanting recovery for themselves. And now you know and can move on.
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Hi guys, just wanted to share a perspective from the other side of the fence. When I first quit drinking I was very eager to understand the "why." Surely there was some reason, some logical explanation, and if only I could grasp that then it would be that much easier for me to stay sober...
But after a lot of time and reading and thinking and talking, I came to understand that I will never really know the reason why. Probably some genetics, some life experiences, some other unknowable things thrown into the mix. But ultimately, it did not matter why I drank -- the fact was I did, and the real task was to fully and honestly accept that fact and make a plan/gather the resources to stop. If I had insisted on working out the alcohol equation before quitting, I'd probably still be drinking today.
All of this is just to suggest that in some cases "not knowing why" might not be, in and of itself, an impediment to recovery. In fact, the unwillingness to blame something external for the predicament might actually be a form of honesty, and therefore a step towards getting better.
But after a lot of time and reading and thinking and talking, I came to understand that I will never really know the reason why. Probably some genetics, some life experiences, some other unknowable things thrown into the mix. But ultimately, it did not matter why I drank -- the fact was I did, and the real task was to fully and honestly accept that fact and make a plan/gather the resources to stop. If I had insisted on working out the alcohol equation before quitting, I'd probably still be drinking today.
All of this is just to suggest that in some cases "not knowing why" might not be, in and of itself, an impediment to recovery. In fact, the unwillingness to blame something external for the predicament might actually be a form of honesty, and therefore a step towards getting better.
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Originally Posted by Deckard 
Hi guys, just wanted to share a perspective from the other side of the fence. When I first quit drinking I was very eager to understand the "why." Surely there was some reason, some logical explanation, and if only I could grasp that then it would be that much easier for me to stay sober...
But after a lot of time and reading and thinking and talking, I came to understand that I will never really know the reason why. Probably some genetics, some life experiences, some other unknowable things thrown into the mix. But ultimately, it did not matter why I drank -- the fact was I did, and the real task was to fully and honestly accept that fact and make a plan/gather the resources to stop. If I had insisted on working out the alcohol equation before quitting, I'd probably still be drinking today.
All of this is just to suggest that in some cases "not knowing why" might not be, in and of itself, an impediment to recovery. In fact, the unwillingness to blame something external for the predicament might actually be a form of honesty, and therefore a step towards getting better.
But after a lot of time and reading and thinking and talking, I came to understand that I will never really know the reason why. Probably some genetics, some life experiences, some other unknowable things thrown into the mix. But ultimately, it did not matter why I drank -- the fact was I did, and the real task was to fully and honestly accept that fact and make a plan/gather the resources to stop. If I had insisted on working out the alcohol equation before quitting, I'd probably still be drinking today.
All of this is just to suggest that in some cases "not knowing why" might not be, in and of itself, an impediment to recovery. In fact, the unwillingness to blame something external for the predicament might actually be a form of honesty, and therefore a step towards getting better.
Deckard, that was great... thank you. That just opened up my perspective a bit. I guess my ideas about all the stuff that has happened to him and no wonder he drinks is that he still has relationships with the family members that did him so wrong as a kid. I guess I just don't understand that as I chose to sever my bad relationships with those types of family members that did me wrong when I was a kid. Hmm... Now that I've read your comment, I am seeing that my ideas are typical codependent behavior.
Seems I was thinking his road to recovery should be the way I see it, and not the way he is going to find it. My bad. I can see that now. Thank you for that. Perspective =)
Still, we are in agreeance that it doesn't matter why he drinks, and that recovery is the only real thing.
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I'm glad that was helpful, LemonGirl. I don't usually post in Friends and Family, though I often read, so let me just take this chance to say how floored I am by the support and strength on display in this forum. I've learned a lot about myself in reading the discussions here. As you say, perspective! 
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Hi Lemongirl, sorry you had to deal with your friend and her views- like duckygirl said she's still in the midst of the disease so her mindset is bound to be something that favours the poor hopeless alcoholic, and how could you not even ask!
Just my experience, but I did ask, many times- and each time I got different answers. It was because of his abandonment as a child from his dad, then it wasn't, because he hated his living circumstances, because of his mum, because he hated where his life was, because he was bullied at school, because he hadn't been able to hold down a job, because he had bad experiences in previous relationships... And so on. At first I felt so bad for him and wanted to help, do anything I could but after a while I just saw it as excuses that he would find. The fact is he drank because in that moment he wanted to drink and if he could convince himself that there was a good 'reason' behind it all the better.
Soon I became the reason he drank, add that to the long list. Now I'm not heartless (and nor are you btw), and I don't doubt some of his past experiences will have impacted on him in later life, but I also see that many people have very bad experiences (some I have read from people on here have brought me to tears), and they do not 'use' those experiences as justification to drink and then often behave verbally and physically abusive to those closest to them. I would often try and talk to axbf about the fact his life would be soooo much better without the alcohol- his relationships, his job status, his living arrangements, and he agreed, but it didn't stop him from drinking.
Anyhow, as usual I ramble but fundamentally I agree with deckard- for an alcoholic there could always be a 'reason' to drink, but it's the fact that they drink that matters. I also think deckard makes a good point about his response of he doesn't know why he drinks- this is possibly a better response (if there is a good one) than an alcoholic who goes into a huge list of 'reasons/excuses' as to why they drink, if he doesn't know why maybe he will start thinking there is no reason behind it so why not stop.
Wishing you well x
Just my experience, but I did ask, many times- and each time I got different answers. It was because of his abandonment as a child from his dad, then it wasn't, because he hated his living circumstances, because of his mum, because he hated where his life was, because he was bullied at school, because he hadn't been able to hold down a job, because he had bad experiences in previous relationships... And so on. At first I felt so bad for him and wanted to help, do anything I could but after a while I just saw it as excuses that he would find. The fact is he drank because in that moment he wanted to drink and if he could convince himself that there was a good 'reason' behind it all the better.
Soon I became the reason he drank, add that to the long list. Now I'm not heartless (and nor are you btw), and I don't doubt some of his past experiences will have impacted on him in later life, but I also see that many people have very bad experiences (some I have read from people on here have brought me to tears), and they do not 'use' those experiences as justification to drink and then often behave verbally and physically abusive to those closest to them. I would often try and talk to axbf about the fact his life would be soooo much better without the alcohol- his relationships, his job status, his living arrangements, and he agreed, but it didn't stop him from drinking.
Anyhow, as usual I ramble but fundamentally I agree with deckard- for an alcoholic there could always be a 'reason' to drink, but it's the fact that they drink that matters. I also think deckard makes a good point about his response of he doesn't know why he drinks- this is possibly a better response (if there is a good one) than an alcoholic who goes into a huge list of 'reasons/excuses' as to why they drink, if he doesn't know why maybe he will start thinking there is no reason behind it so why not stop.
Wishing you well x
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Lemon,
I'm a sober alcoholic, too, and I couldn't tell you exactly why I became an alcoholic. Like Deckard, I have a few ideas about why I drank, but not why it became completely abnormal drinking. Not everyone who drinks for reasons like PTSD or in response to an abusive situation becomes an alcoholic. In the end, the "why" doesn't matter so much as the "how do I stop and stay stopped."
I see TONS of alcoholics who are totally stuck on the "why." And the truth is that we don't know any more than the "experts" know. So give your ex a little credit for honesty. He isn't blaming outside circumstances, which is what so many alcoholics do. Maybe there's a little hope for him after all. Or at least one less hurdle for him to overcome if he decides he's had enough.
I'm a sober alcoholic, too, and I couldn't tell you exactly why I became an alcoholic. Like Deckard, I have a few ideas about why I drank, but not why it became completely abnormal drinking. Not everyone who drinks for reasons like PTSD or in response to an abusive situation becomes an alcoholic. In the end, the "why" doesn't matter so much as the "how do I stop and stay stopped."
I see TONS of alcoholics who are totally stuck on the "why." And the truth is that we don't know any more than the "experts" know. So give your ex a little credit for honesty. He isn't blaming outside circumstances, which is what so many alcoholics do. Maybe there's a little hope for him after all. Or at least one less hurdle for him to overcome if he decides he's had enough.
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Wow, this turned out to be very helpful for me. Thanx everyone.
And Deckard, I have been on the alcoholic's side of posting here on SR too, and I always found it interesting how different the tone is. An admittance of time sober often gets tons of "Thanx " but no comments, while other posts about struggles get no "thanx" but get tons of comments. While over here, the support just overflows.
Anyway, I'm grateful for SR, that's for sure. And I'm thankful for everyone who comments.
And Deckard, I have been on the alcoholic's side of posting here on SR too, and I always found it interesting how different the tone is. An admittance of time sober often gets tons of "Thanx " but no comments, while other posts about struggles get no "thanx" but get tons of comments. While over here, the support just overflows.
Anyway, I'm grateful for SR, that's for sure. And I'm thankful for everyone who comments.
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Years ago, before I had an understanding of what addiction is, I asked XA why he had to drink everyday of his life.
His response.
" I like to drink, I like how it tastes, I like how it makes me feel. It helps me to relax, It relieves my stress, and I can sleep at night."
I said, " well most days, your drinking turns you into a raging, unhappy human being."
His response,
"No it doesn't" (daily blackouts)
Oh, ok, I must just be imagining your hate for yourself and everyone else on planet earth.......
His response.
" I like to drink, I like how it tastes, I like how it makes me feel. It helps me to relax, It relieves my stress, and I can sleep at night."
I said, " well most days, your drinking turns you into a raging, unhappy human being."
His response,
"No it doesn't" (daily blackouts)
Oh, ok, I must just be imagining your hate for yourself and everyone else on planet earth.......
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HE HAS NO IDEA WHY!?!?
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Yep yep.... And I was thinking like a codie when I wrote that. I can see now why that thinking is wrong.
It doesn't matter why... And you know, I knew that before I asked him. But my alkie friend suggested it and so I did.
But since I am a codependent and have advice for everyone but myself (workin on that!!), I took his "I don't know" to mean that he wasn't ready to put in the work, be cause for me, MY work has a LOT to do with getting in touch with my past. His? No matter what I think it should be, it will be on his time, in his own way, and it's none of my business. I should have stuck to my own resolve about that and not taken my friend's advice. It didn't hurt to ask though... In fact, I learned something new! Yay!
It doesn't matter why... And you know, I knew that before I asked him. But my alkie friend suggested it and so I did.
But since I am a codependent and have advice for everyone but myself (workin on that!!), I took his "I don't know" to mean that he wasn't ready to put in the work, be cause for me, MY work has a LOT to do with getting in touch with my past. His? No matter what I think it should be, it will be on his time, in his own way, and it's none of my business. I should have stuck to my own resolve about that and not taken my friend's advice. It didn't hurt to ask though... In fact, I learned something new! Yay!
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I'm going to be the fly in the ointment and offer a differing view also from the perspective recovering alcoholic. It may make no difference to the other side for dealing with an alcoholic. The reality is unacceptable behavior is unacceptable behavior regardless of the whys. That is quite valid. For me as someone in recovery the why's make a great deal of difference however. The "whys" give me a path forward, a better compass if you will. Being able to understand why for myself also helps me give better guidance to those around me on how to best help me. I wasn't always an alcoholic, in fact it wasn't until my mid forties that I became one. Just not drinking certainly stopped the immediate negative impact of my drinking on others. However without truly getting into the whys, the triggers per se, I also became a dry drunk and I remained stagnant in my own personal growth. Without getting too far into the weeds understanding that I was dealing with some pretty serious PTSD from an event that happened a little over a decade ago made a great bit of difference in my choice to seek a therapist that treats that issue very recently.
That said I don't mean to negate your feelings in any way. You friends and family go through a lot of nonsense and I am sorry. You have every right to be frustrated, bitter, and angry. Regardless of all the best "whys" in the world the reality is our addiction is selfish and in the end gets the addict nowhere and causes a lot of destruction in the process.
Peace and best wishes in your own journey,
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That said I don't mean to negate your feelings in any way. You friends and family go through a lot of nonsense and I am sorry. You have every right to be frustrated, bitter, and angry. Regardless of all the best "whys" in the world the reality is our addiction is selfish and in the end gets the addict nowhere and causes a lot of destruction in the process.
Peace and best wishes in your own journey,
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This thread gives me even greater peace and liberation from trying to figure out "Why???". Heck, if the A doesn't even know why, then why should I be so ego-centric to try figuring it out?
I'll never make sense of it. I don't have to. It is what it is.
I'll never make sense of it. I don't have to. It is what it is.
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Originally Posted by ErinGoBraugh
This thread gives me even greater peace and liberation from trying to figure out "Why???". Heck, if the A doesn't even know why, then why should I be so ego-centric to try figuring it out?
I'll never make sense of it. I don't have to. It is what it is.
I'll never make sense of it. I don't have to. It is what it is.
Erin, for us codependents, that is the key. That is what I was reminded of through this post.
However, I do believe to each his own. Clearly, there are many different paths others take and need to take to find their sobriety.
The fact remains, his journey is not mine, and it's none of my business how he comes to his sobriety. Plus, it keeps me from going all codie and obsessing about what I think is right.
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Great thread and it made me think.
I'm a double whinner, but was a die-hard codie first. I can't tell you why. I wasn't raised that way, the only addiction in my family was thousands of miles away and didn't really affect me.
My answer to my codie issues was "can't fix them, join them". Stupidity at it's finest. Knew all the dangers of addiction (was a nurse) and became one anyway.
Bottom line, as many of you have mentioned, it doesn't matter why, though I spent a loooong time trying to figure it out.
I no longer try to figure it out. I'm just grateful to everyone at SR who have taught me that getting my fix, be it a person or a substance, is going to bring nothing but pain.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
I'm a double whinner, but was a die-hard codie first. I can't tell you why. I wasn't raised that way, the only addiction in my family was thousands of miles away and didn't really affect me.
My answer to my codie issues was "can't fix them, join them". Stupidity at it's finest. Knew all the dangers of addiction (was a nurse) and became one anyway.
Bottom line, as many of you have mentioned, it doesn't matter why, though I spent a loooong time trying to figure it out.
I no longer try to figure it out. I'm just grateful to everyone at SR who have taught me that getting my fix, be it a person or a substance, is going to bring nothing but pain.
Hugs and prayers,
Amy
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