itstheone

I am in a recovery group. So we have a lot of philosophical discussions. You know, not always ruminating or belaboring our "short comings" etc. That seems counter productive to me. But anyway, we discussed the difference between these two states- sober vs, non-drinker.

At some point does someone early in their sobriety, when all you do is think about drinking and recovery, eventually gets to a point after many years and work towards total transformation becomes a non-drinker? I think there is a difference. Does one have to spend their whole life in "recovery"? That kinds sucks? I don't want to spend my whole life thinking about drinking etc?

I used to smoke heavily? Am I in recovery? At first for few months all i did was think about cigarettes but now 4 years later never really a thought...ever? So am I now a non-smoker? why is his any different than drinking or drugs? I am not in a forum for this constantly reminding myself not to smoke?

If one truly changes their lives it wound seems all of the things that made us drink goes away and life and "I" move on like my cigs....hence a non-drinker? Your thoughts?

Dee74

The longer I've been sober, the less I worry about the label lol.

There's 'before recovery' for me and 'after recovery'...

recovery has encompassed a lot more things for me than just being sober: for me it's about being the best me I can be - it's a process still ongoing, so I'm perfectly ok in being in a state of 'recovering'

D

itstheone

That is a perfectly acceptable to me too..well put

Hawks

Some people quit drinking, find out booze was really weighing them down and up they go.

Some people quit drinking, find out booze was really holding them up and crash.

The only way to know what type you are is to quit and time will tell.

Personally, I think just quitting for me, is like painting over rust.

It might look Ok for a while, but eventually it'll surface again.

I decided to take drastic measures to ensure all the rust is cut away.

I tried just quitting, hoping I was one of the people for whom booze was weighing me down and I wasn't.

So, having had two years just "Dry" I didn't want to repeat an unsuccessful experience.

Hope that helps

Shamal

I would have thought 'sober' and 'non-drinker' are the same thing, even in AA jargon. Where the deeper question might be, is for long-term sober people to continue to consider themselves 'in recovery'.

A person I know that has 20 years up, is a firm believer in the AA model, has taken to announcing himself as a RECOVERED alcoholic. You see a few 'WTF' faces around the room, but he goes on to explain that the Big Book clearly states that we are working towards being recovered.

I think in the early days, 'recovered' needs to be explicitly separated from 'not drinking' or even being a 'non-drinker' (ie someone who had a problem, but is no longer taking alcohol). There is often a whole lot of re-learning how to be a positive person and valued member of society, and an alcoholic who simply stops drinking is unlikely to get there without some conscious effort to change him/her self as a person. The implication too, is that without changing the 'you', a relapse is just around the corner.

These concepts of personal development and fellowship making for a better humanity is not exclusive to AA either. The Three Jewels of Buddhism fairly well reflect the concepts being promoted in AA, which in my opinion makes it a pretty good accompaniment to the steps for those who have trouble with the concept of a western god.

Fluffer

I was just thinking today about how quitting drinking compares to quitting smoking. For me the cravings in quitting smoking were insane at the beginning. I just kept telling myself to ride it out and eventually the cravings stopped. I have zero desire to smoke again and rarely think about it.

For me the thoughts about booze are more subdued, but in a way more insidious. The thoughts about how I will never enjoy hanging out with old friends without drinking. More subtle Jedi mind tricks as opposed to full on physical cravings. I too wonder if the subtle AV will ever die over time or if I will forever need to work on staying sober. I'm at almost three months sober and I think at this point with cigarettes the addiction was pretty dead.

MelindaFlowers

At eight months I'm pretty much just a plain and simple nondrinker. No alcohol at all and I don't think about drinking. However, I check in here every day just to remind myself why I stopped. I have also found that helping others and relating to them helps me to be okay with my new nondrinking life.

IOAA2

Hi.
I’m a recovered alcoholic, using the terminology in the BB. I personally don’t care for the term even though I haven’t had a drink in +35 years.

It’s stated that alcohol is like an iceberg being it’s about 10% of an alcoholics problem related to alcoholism. It’s out addictive part but we drank for reasons we need to address as most will drink again without addressing and changing those characteristics.

The major reason most drank is to escape and cover up our misdirected feelings which include fears, anxiety, isolation, low self esteem and on and on. We fix our destructive characteristics and the chances of drinking are almost eliminated. This takes time, practice and work and is the program of AA which works if we work it. Unfortunately………………..

BE WELL

Eshgham

I'm a non smoker. Buying cigarettes feels weird/alien to me. It's just not something I do. It feels somehow out of place.

I want buying alcohol to feel the same. I want the liquor store to seem alien to me - like another world. A place I never venture. When it's like that, I'll consider myself a non drinker.

In the meantime, I'm sober/in recovery.

LBrain

where do I start... I am 28 days cold turkey quit from chew (skoal, copenhagen and the like) after almost 25 years of constant use. I mean constant - not like smoking a fag every hour - I mean always in use while awake. Get rid of a dip and replace with another immediately constant. Let me tell you - it was not pretty the first week. Or the second. Now, I still have cravings but less. I just had a shiver now thinking about it.
I would say I am still in recovery from tobacco.

I quit alcohol 14 months ago. No cravings, no desire, no reminiscent thoughts about it. Occasionally the thought of having a drink crosses my mind. But it's just a thought. Am I recovered? Am I still an alcoholic?
Sure there are things that may have been ******** by alcohol consumption over the years. And I still have to work on developing my coping skills and dealing with the outrageous behaviors of society as the accepted norm. But I'll manage.

I frequented a group a year ago. There were two rules. 1 - you introduced yourself by your first name only. 2 you declared you were an alcoholic. WTF? I used to cringe when someone would begin to speak and was interrupted by "What's your name?" Followed by "What are you?" It drove me nuts. And, eventually, away.
I went to a meeting last week to say hello. It is obvious that by some I am sort of not welcome there. Even though I don't say boo. One of the gents when he speaks says his name and in CAPITAL LETTERS says "RECOVERING ALCOHOLIC". After 35 years he still says this. Then of course tells everyone if they don't do a step 5 they will drink within a year. But that's another discussion.

So, what is it? Recovering alcoholic or I just don't drink no more?

Consider the playboy if you will. A guy who every weekend would be with a different girl. A few a week and all he cared about was his next score.
No our playboy meets a lady who steals his heart and he suddenly is a one woman man. He still looks. But he never acts. Is he a recovered playboy?
Will he always be in recovery from playboyism? Or is it he just changed his ways and does not do that anymore?

We tend to debate this all too much. And it has become a part of "our" culture to do so. Let's not over think it too much eh. Give yourselves a break.

Me? I'm a non-drinker. Do people who never drank go around proclaiming they are sober? No. It's something that doesn't occur to them.

Whatever works for you really. However you wish to approach 'this' that will benefit YOU the most is what you should do. Do not worry about what other people think. It's what you think and how you approach it that is the only thing that matters.

Aellyce

I think all this is very subjective and everyone is different. Take the approach and mindset that is most compatible with you in a healthy way and supports your goals.

I personally don't mind the "recovery thing" at all for a lifetime, but after a while, in the long run, it's really not about alcohol, drinking, or not drinking for many people, I think. More continued self-work and creating/living the life that makes us happy, that we don't want to trade for instant gratification, and that we happily take responsibility for. After a while, it can become more an endless process of self-actualization rather than focusing on the maintenance of the most basic needs and fixing old *** primarily. I'm perfectly good with that because that has always been "my way" anyway, before drinking became a problem. Being sober now released a block from that attitude so I can now take it to new levels. I more or less stopped obsessing / thinking about my drinking around 5-6 months sober... even the threads I posted here on SR, looking for feedback, were not really about drinking, sobriety, or not drinking after that time, more about a bunch of other life questions and issues. I had horrible, intense and frequent cravings for alcohol in the beginning, for longer than I would have wanted. All seems gone. My concerns and focus have also been continuously shifting during the past ~13 months of recovery, and now I pretty much just perceive it as normal life. But I don't mind thinking about other people's drinking problem and reading/posting about it here at all, I don't find anything disturbing in it. I enjoy problem solving. I also work on addiction as a job, talk about it in therapy (not excessively), and talk about it individually with people IRL when they want. Again, I don't feel it overwhelming, I now enjoy it as an area of my expertise, something I know about from a few different angles.

I also quit other habits in the past: eating disorders (that was hard), smoking (easy for me), behaviors that stressed me out and held me back (some really hard)... I find that after a while, it all becomes pretty effortless and the new way becomes habitual. But it's a good idea to get some help and knowledge about how to change habits and behavioral patterns effectively -- it's really not trivial, too intuitive, or easy to figure out on our own.

You will see many different perspectives. Again, take the road that is most likely to lead you to where you want to be, in a positive, constructive way

LBrain

this is what I meant to say...

itstheone

I get that. but at what point does one REALLY move on and converts to the non drinker? And if possible. ...

Aellyce

I think no one can tell you that. It's very individual. But you will know when it happens to you. In my experience there is something in it about the fear of drinking and addiction dissolving in the mind... I think it's the fear that keeps us vigilant in the beginning and serves as negative reinforcement for a while after quitting. For example, I always had this anxious reaction in the beginning when reading about relapses here on SR because it triggered a train of thought, what if... We also react to threatening/overly critical people that way because it taps into our own fears and triggers it.

From your concerns expressed here, it's quite clear that you are not at that stage yet where you feel at peace with all this. Don't push or rush it, let it run its natural course for you. I think it's good that you are going to a recovery group, but don't let yourself being overly influenced by negative thinking if you notice it does not support your recovery.

ScottFromWI

Everyone is different. And labels really don't matter, it's merely a semantics argument for the most part.

For me personally, i know that I will ALWAYS be unable to drink alcohol without negative consequences. You could also say that I will ALWAYS be an alcoholic too - I don't always use the exact term, but the 2 statements mean exactly the same thing - I can never drink again without the consequences that come along with being an alcoholic.

I am just over 2 years into my current period of sobriety, and while my life is MUCH different than when I first quit, I still feel it's important to remind myself on a daily basis that I am an alcoholic. It might be just checking in here on SR and reading a couple of posts, and for the most part I don't really even think of drinking during the rest of the day, but I feel it is important to remember why I don't drink anymore.

Shamal

We need to be careful to note that much of the alcoholism related nomenclature is from AA, but the program isn't exclusive as a method for recovery, despite what is said in tje rooms. I don't recall any approved literature on the topic, but plenty of members say that if you dont work the program amd just stop drinking then you will drink again. Or... if you don't, then you were never an alcoholic to begin with. This sort of twisted logic is very toxic if the implications are considered. It sets people up by saying 'join our sect or youe life WILL be misery'.

We can call ourselves sober, non drinkers, recovered, whatever works for the individual. Those not affiliated with AA should look beyond their terminology.

Shamal

... says the guy who is feeling unstable and just rushed out of the house and writing this on the train towards an AA meeting lol

PurpleKnight

I'm a "non drinker", one of the millions in the world that don't drink, they don't have a problem, but I get to be one of them on an equal footing, we're both having a diet coke!!

I don't get too hung up on labels, whatever works!!

CAPTAINZING2000

I knew several people that got sober thru AA and stopped going to meetings later on.
I hit one AA meeting a week and one Al Anon meeting a week.
The people I know with 30 years sober, go for the social aspect of the meetings as well as helping the newcomers .

I'm past the age of peer pressure to have a drink at a social gathering etc. I sure don't have any distorted thoughts of having a drink. Most of the people I drank with sobered up got covered up or out of my life.
I go to a meeting at a drug an alcohol rehab once a month to remind me of where I could be instead of where I am.

Ultramarathoner

Same!

Also, I decided to stop 'counting' today since I as was starting to feel like I was still 'competing' for something I'd already accomplished (I write this with humility).

I'm not a label guy. I just don't drink.