Detachment question(s)
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 5
Detachment question(s)
Good Morning,
I'm posting this here because I think this is the right area. Essentially this is an Al-Anon question and this seemed to be the closest forum.
I am a recovering A and am active in my AA program. My wife and I both go to meetings several days a week, have sponsors and work the steps of our respective programs. My question relates to detachment or more accurately the application of detachment in recovery; how is it done?
I have talked to my sponsor about it and he has little idea even after a few decades in AA. I have read the Hazelden explanation, searched the internet and read the relevant portions of "Al-Anon Works" but still can't square what my wife is doing with what I have read elsewhere concerning detachment.
I understand and support her need to work her program but she is unwilling to explain detachment to me or tell me if I am on the right track as far as understanding what she is doing. My perception is that she is coldly courteous and distant, emotionally and physically unavailable and generally distains my presence except when there is work to be done. However she still calls and texts me incessantly and gets upset if I don't call her. She still seems to expect me to provide her with emotional support while denying me the same. This is really difficult to explain adequately. However, It all seems a bit strange so I am hoping someone here, or perhaps a lot of someone's can help me understand, give me some practical knowledge or perhaps even help me self manage my expectations WRT detachment.
Thanks for reading,
Matt
I'm posting this here because I think this is the right area. Essentially this is an Al-Anon question and this seemed to be the closest forum.
I am a recovering A and am active in my AA program. My wife and I both go to meetings several days a week, have sponsors and work the steps of our respective programs. My question relates to detachment or more accurately the application of detachment in recovery; how is it done?
I have talked to my sponsor about it and he has little idea even after a few decades in AA. I have read the Hazelden explanation, searched the internet and read the relevant portions of "Al-Anon Works" but still can't square what my wife is doing with what I have read elsewhere concerning detachment.
I understand and support her need to work her program but she is unwilling to explain detachment to me or tell me if I am on the right track as far as understanding what she is doing. My perception is that she is coldly courteous and distant, emotionally and physically unavailable and generally distains my presence except when there is work to be done. However she still calls and texts me incessantly and gets upset if I don't call her. She still seems to expect me to provide her with emotional support while denying me the same. This is really difficult to explain adequately. However, It all seems a bit strange so I am hoping someone here, or perhaps a lot of someone's can help me understand, give me some practical knowledge or perhaps even help me self manage my expectations WRT detachment.
Thanks for reading,
Matt
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Matt....I see that this is your first post, so I want to welcome you to the forum!
Thank you for answering that question, because it will be important piece of information, I believe. I am sorry that I will not be able to give you a specific answer to your question as I have not been in your situation. (my qualifier is a family member--not a spouse).
There are others who have, however, and I am confident that they will be along to help you.
This is mid-weekend, so the forum is at a slower pace. It will pick up, however.
I am sorry that there is this tension in your marriage....I understand your concern about that!!!!!!!!!!
Major congratulations on you sobriety!!!!!
dandylion
Member
Join Date: May 2013
Location: east coast
Posts: 1,332
Hi Matt, Welcome and congrats on your sobriety. I am by no means an expert on detachment but it is my understanding that it is nothing more than allowing someone to live their life as they see fit regardless of the consequences of that person's choices. Nothing more, nothing less.
Your wife's behavior seems much more standoffish. It might be helpful for the two of you to also get marital counseling. AA and Al-Anon can not fix all problems or challenges. They are great for individual work but many couples also need help together.
Your wife's behavior seems much more standoffish. It might be helpful for the two of you to also get marital counseling. AA and Al-Anon can not fix all problems or challenges. They are great for individual work but many couples also need help together.
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
For me, detaching happens in my head more than is visible to my partner. It's about not getting swept up in what he is doing or thinking or feeling. For me, it's being careful not to tell h.what to do or ask how he is doing unless he raises something or asks for advice and even then, it's given gently and not followed up upon.
It sounds like maybe your wife and yourself have lost some communication. I don't know how things were between you before recovery, but it almost sounds like how I behave when I am upset or angry and don't feel I can talk about it or deal with it. Perhaps it.might be helpful to sit down together and tell her you want to hear whatever she needs to say?
Couples therapy might help open things up too.
Best of luck. It does take time for people to open up sometimes.
It sounds like maybe your wife and yourself have lost some communication. I don't know how things were between you before recovery, but it almost sounds like how I behave when I am upset or angry and don't feel I can talk about it or deal with it. Perhaps it.might be helpful to sit down together and tell her you want to hear whatever she needs to say?
Couples therapy might help open things up too.
Best of luck. It does take time for people to open up sometimes.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Canada.
Posts: 795
Mattla, that is how I would practice "detachment" when my H was drinking. It was the way that was taught to me by an addiction counsellor who followed 12 step. Basically she told me, any encouragement i would give H could be considered enabling, and if I smiled at him the morning after a bender I was encouraging. I asked about "detaching with love", she told me it was next to impossible.
Needless to say, all this detaching made my H very upset, unloved and unwanted.
We have now found a non 12 step counsellor that encourages positive reinforcement and engagement for both of us, and now that H is sober, when he starts a dry drunk episode (which is happening less and less now) I am supposed to disengage, not detach, and tell him I love him but I can't talk now.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Hopefully you can find a good marriage counselor. I no longer attend al anon even tho my husband sometimes attends AA as he feels necessary. Al Anon did more harm than good for me.
Needless to say, all this detaching made my H very upset, unloved and unwanted.
We have now found a non 12 step counsellor that encourages positive reinforcement and engagement for both of us, and now that H is sober, when he starts a dry drunk episode (which is happening less and less now) I am supposed to disengage, not detach, and tell him I love him but I can't talk now.
I'm sorry you are going through this. Hopefully you can find a good marriage counselor. I no longer attend al anon even tho my husband sometimes attends AA as he feels necessary. Al Anon did more harm than good for me.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 1,792
Dear Matt
First of all, the fact that BOTH of you are in recovery is nothing short of a miracle. If you look around this website, you will see that most of our struggles have to do with a spouse or other loved one who is still in their addiction.
I believe that the core dynamics of your marriage, as you have known it, are all changing. When you both were still using, you were detached from each other in an unhealthy way. It takes time to re-learn and get adjusted. This is a very vulnerable time for both of you.
I agree with others, that maybe professional help is a good idea. Therapists are also like a lot of other professions. You sometimes have to "kiss a few frogs" before you find one that works for you.
There is also the outside chance that you both might determine that you can't stay together sober. If this is the case, you will be fine. Sobriety is a GREAT life.
Please keep coming back.
First of all, the fact that BOTH of you are in recovery is nothing short of a miracle. If you look around this website, you will see that most of our struggles have to do with a spouse or other loved one who is still in their addiction.
I believe that the core dynamics of your marriage, as you have known it, are all changing. When you both were still using, you were detached from each other in an unhealthy way. It takes time to re-learn and get adjusted. This is a very vulnerable time for both of you.
I agree with others, that maybe professional help is a good idea. Therapists are also like a lot of other professions. You sometimes have to "kiss a few frogs" before you find one that works for you.
There is also the outside chance that you both might determine that you can't stay together sober. If this is the case, you will be fine. Sobriety is a GREAT life.
Please keep coming back.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,792
Hey Matt,
Welcome and congrats on your sobriety!! That is awesome. I see lots of times that when the A gets sober things should hopefully return to "normal". I guess only in a fairy tale. You are both "sick" and need to learn how to communicate as a team, again.
IMO, I think its great that you both are working a program. From an alanon point of view, we have been so, so hurt by the addicts in our lives. We have tried to manage their addiction for so long and finally realize we can't. You (the addict) become our addiction. So we feel that it is our responsibility to make you better. Once we come into program and realize that we can only take care of our selves and mind our own business we come off as a"stand off ish". Which I can see that you are seeing with your wife. We are suppose to stay on our side of the street. By doing that we give you the freedom to make your own choices and not tell you that you are being a " bad" child. Detaching and detaching with love are 2 different things. I feel detaching to me is like saving myself so I don't drown with the active A. But detaching with love is minding my own business, and not judging the addict on their decisions and actions.
I think that your wife has survived and is still hurting. Give her time to try and forgive you. (sorry but we remember everything) You have to remember that we are "worried" that you will start drinking again and "hurt" us again. We are only trying to protect ourselves.
Give her more time to see you working your program. I hope she will let her guard down. She is only doing what the program recommends her to do to "save" herself.
Hugs my friend, stay sober and work your program on your side of the street. She can take care of herself!!
Welcome and congrats on your sobriety!! That is awesome. I see lots of times that when the A gets sober things should hopefully return to "normal". I guess only in a fairy tale. You are both "sick" and need to learn how to communicate as a team, again.
IMO, I think its great that you both are working a program. From an alanon point of view, we have been so, so hurt by the addicts in our lives. We have tried to manage their addiction for so long and finally realize we can't. You (the addict) become our addiction. So we feel that it is our responsibility to make you better. Once we come into program and realize that we can only take care of our selves and mind our own business we come off as a"stand off ish". Which I can see that you are seeing with your wife. We are suppose to stay on our side of the street. By doing that we give you the freedom to make your own choices and not tell you that you are being a " bad" child. Detaching and detaching with love are 2 different things. I feel detaching to me is like saving myself so I don't drown with the active A. But detaching with love is minding my own business, and not judging the addict on their decisions and actions.
I think that your wife has survived and is still hurting. Give her time to try and forgive you. (sorry but we remember everything) You have to remember that we are "worried" that you will start drinking again and "hurt" us again. We are only trying to protect ourselves.
Give her more time to see you working your program. I hope she will let her guard down. She is only doing what the program recommends her to do to "save" herself.
Hugs my friend, stay sober and work your program on your side of the street. She can take care of herself!!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 5
Thanks all. You have given great advice and suggestions and I appreciate it.
It seems that whatever is occurring with my wife it is not detachment as described by al-anon. This is actually a bit of a relief since I had begun to think some of the al-anon things must be a bit strange if her actions were in accordance with an Al-Anon principle. I won't try to analyze her actions but just accept that this must be part of her journey. Time will tell.
Both of us being in our respective programs is a miracle and I reflect on it often.
To Dandylion - Things have been off since the birth of our son several years ago; however, they got better after I stopped drinking and working my program. Things seemed to be pretty good until about 3-4 months ago. It has been kind of a roller coaster for quite a while. I have no illusion that we will become Ozzie and Harriet
We have tried marriage counseling several times without much success. Perhaps it is time to try again.
Thanks again to everyone. It's a pretty nice place here.
Matt
It seems that whatever is occurring with my wife it is not detachment as described by al-anon. This is actually a bit of a relief since I had begun to think some of the al-anon things must be a bit strange if her actions were in accordance with an Al-Anon principle. I won't try to analyze her actions but just accept that this must be part of her journey. Time will tell.
Both of us being in our respective programs is a miracle and I reflect on it often.
To Dandylion - Things have been off since the birth of our son several years ago; however, they got better after I stopped drinking and working my program. Things seemed to be pretty good until about 3-4 months ago. It has been kind of a roller coaster for quite a while. I have no illusion that we will become Ozzie and Harriet
We have tried marriage counseling several times without much success. Perhaps it is time to try again.
Thanks again to everyone. It's a pretty nice place here.
Matt
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
Posts: 11,481
Originally Posted by Mattla 
It's a pretty nice place here.
Welcome to SR, and I hope you stick around to share your ES&H, too!
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Hello and Welcome!
Have you asked her what's up?
If I had to guess one e motion behind such behavior, I'd guess anger. The trick of it is Mattla, it might be anger towards herself more than you. Especially since she is a year in on Al Anon. the keeping tabs on you is trust issues id imagine.
Good luck!
Have you asked her what's up?
If I had to guess one e motion behind such behavior, I'd guess anger. The trick of it is Mattla, it might be anger towards herself more than you. Especially since she is a year in on Al Anon. the keeping tabs on you is trust issues id imagine.
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 273
Matt,
First welcome to the forums. I am also in recovery (the RAW- recovering alcoholic wife) and just passed my one year mark two weeks ago. I have opted for a different group other than A.A which I am active in (Women for Sobriety). My husband is very active in Al-Anon and has a sponsor. The nuances of our relationship are very very similar to yours. BTW we also live in the same state you do as well!
I’m going to share my story which hopefully will help you in some way. A very funny thing has happened in recovery. The more I “thought through the drink” this past year (and then didn’t and found new coping mechanisms) the more and more I found myself relating to the friends and family side. I post here an awful lot for that reason. In turn the more my husband worked his program the more and more he found himself relating to the addict side. He in the past few months has told me that emotionally he finds himself being the addict but without the booze. He is a self-identified co-dependent (codie) and in recovery. Without booze in the picture the nuances of the “big picture” have become much clearer to me.
About a month ago as I found myself on the eve of my sober anniversary I was sitting down thinking “I’m just one stinking dry drunk” I wasn’t too happy with myself. Booze was gone but I had only achieved about one of the thirteen steps in my program. A major relationship dynamic came into play after a crisis a number of years ago. A sample of our dance goes like this:
-He gets angry, sometimes over rather petty things. For a number of years I fought back which accomplished very little. Then I detached myself physically and emotionally but never told him why I was detaching. This was very unhealthy of me and an issue I take full responsibility for. This in turn just angered him even more and made me look rather cold and distant (guilty as charged). This dynamic just triggered his codie tendencies and all of their accompanying behaviors. He got angrier and angrier and I detached more and more and ultimately I detached myself right into a bottle of wine a night. This solved nothing and landed me in rehab so we had another problem. So a year later I’m where you are. I think I understand the problem but I don’t know how to solve it.
I think A.A and many other programs are wonderful tools for personal growth and have many merits. I confess however that I too upon realizing what was triggering my drinking, as to wanting more specific ways of detaching. Reached out to my sobriety group a few weeks ago and was given a recommendation of the “Boundaries” series by Henry Cloud. I found one in the series called “Boundaries in Marriage” which I purchased the audio version and I started listening to it. I LOVE THIS BOOK. I see myself over and over in it. He goes into specific details of ways to detach, setting your own boundaries and why this is important. He also explains that when we don’t own our problems with setting boundaries AND explain them to people we are actually a part of the problem. I am guilty guilty guilty and guilty. So I’d recommend this book highly to you. I also purchased the workbook (.99 cents used plus shipping) which I also plan on digging into.
Thanks for reading my rather longwinded post. You are not alone and congrats on your sobriety!!!
Peace,
Cookies
First welcome to the forums. I am also in recovery (the RAW- recovering alcoholic wife) and just passed my one year mark two weeks ago. I have opted for a different group other than A.A which I am active in (Women for Sobriety). My husband is very active in Al-Anon and has a sponsor. The nuances of our relationship are very very similar to yours. BTW we also live in the same state you do as well!
I’m going to share my story which hopefully will help you in some way. A very funny thing has happened in recovery. The more I “thought through the drink” this past year (and then didn’t and found new coping mechanisms) the more and more I found myself relating to the friends and family side. I post here an awful lot for that reason. In turn the more my husband worked his program the more and more he found himself relating to the addict side. He in the past few months has told me that emotionally he finds himself being the addict but without the booze. He is a self-identified co-dependent (codie) and in recovery. Without booze in the picture the nuances of the “big picture” have become much clearer to me.
About a month ago as I found myself on the eve of my sober anniversary I was sitting down thinking “I’m just one stinking dry drunk” I wasn’t too happy with myself. Booze was gone but I had only achieved about one of the thirteen steps in my program. A major relationship dynamic came into play after a crisis a number of years ago. A sample of our dance goes like this:
-He gets angry, sometimes over rather petty things. For a number of years I fought back which accomplished very little. Then I detached myself physically and emotionally but never told him why I was detaching. This was very unhealthy of me and an issue I take full responsibility for. This in turn just angered him even more and made me look rather cold and distant (guilty as charged). This dynamic just triggered his codie tendencies and all of their accompanying behaviors. He got angrier and angrier and I detached more and more and ultimately I detached myself right into a bottle of wine a night. This solved nothing and landed me in rehab so we had another problem. So a year later I’m where you are. I think I understand the problem but I don’t know how to solve it.
I think A.A and many other programs are wonderful tools for personal growth and have many merits. I confess however that I too upon realizing what was triggering my drinking, as to wanting more specific ways of detaching. Reached out to my sobriety group a few weeks ago and was given a recommendation of the “Boundaries” series by Henry Cloud. I found one in the series called “Boundaries in Marriage” which I purchased the audio version and I started listening to it. I LOVE THIS BOOK. I see myself over and over in it. He goes into specific details of ways to detach, setting your own boundaries and why this is important. He also explains that when we don’t own our problems with setting boundaries AND explain them to people we are actually a part of the problem. I am guilty guilty guilty and guilty. So I’d recommend this book highly to you. I also purchased the workbook (.99 cents used plus shipping) which I also plan on digging into.
Thanks for reading my rather longwinded post. You are not alone and congrats on your sobriety!!!
Peace,
Cookies
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Welcome and congrats on your sobriety!
Detachment for me is about learning to live with behaviors that otherwise affect my life. A simplified example would be when my husband relapsing and me stopping things in my life to try and control what was happening in my home. This encompasses trying to control his drinking, searching for bottles, etc.
Later it also included detaching from him emotionally as I had decided I did not want to live with an active alcoholic, and was preparing for separation. The relapse ended and we have since returned to normal or better than normal for that matter. Still, there are personality issues in him that are annoying to me. I detach from those still - I see them as remnants of the alcoholic personality. When they make their presence known (LOL) I ignore it, completely do not respond to King Baby and blame shifting. I guess its kind of picking and choosing your battles.
As I read it your wife does not seem to be detaching. Her behavior sounds like someone who is holding a deep grudge toward you. I have seen this on the board before that when the A partner does get help and does embrace recovery there is still a lot of work to repair the marriage.
"She still seems to expect me to provide her with emotional support while denying me the same". Interesting statement. Could you give us a little more information regarding your Alcoholism and how long it was going on in the marriage? Also what lead up to you seeking sobriety?
It sounds like your wife is in a 'pay me back" frame of mind - like you were unavailable to her emotionally and physically when you were actively drinking tit for tat.
I don't know that for sure. Just throwing a couple things out there.
Detachment for me is about learning to live with behaviors that otherwise affect my life. A simplified example would be when my husband relapsing and me stopping things in my life to try and control what was happening in my home. This encompasses trying to control his drinking, searching for bottles, etc.
Later it also included detaching from him emotionally as I had decided I did not want to live with an active alcoholic, and was preparing for separation. The relapse ended and we have since returned to normal or better than normal for that matter. Still, there are personality issues in him that are annoying to me. I detach from those still - I see them as remnants of the alcoholic personality. When they make their presence known (LOL) I ignore it, completely do not respond to King Baby and blame shifting. I guess its kind of picking and choosing your battles.
As I read it your wife does not seem to be detaching. Her behavior sounds like someone who is holding a deep grudge toward you. I have seen this on the board before that when the A partner does get help and does embrace recovery there is still a lot of work to repair the marriage.
"She still seems to expect me to provide her with emotional support while denying me the same". Interesting statement. Could you give us a little more information regarding your Alcoholism and how long it was going on in the marriage? Also what lead up to you seeking sobriety?
It sounds like your wife is in a 'pay me back" frame of mind - like you were unavailable to her emotionally and physically when you were actively drinking tit for tat.
I don't know that for sure. Just throwing a couple things out there.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: West Coast
Posts: 774
Hi Matt! Welcome!
I am no expert on detachment, but much of what everyone has said is what I have come to believe detachment is.
It's just a simple 'you can't control anyone except yourself' practice that is aimed at working on our own behaviors rather than someone else's.
My guess is that your wife has either gone a little awry with how to execute detachment, or she is working extra hard to protect herself. And the latter boils down to trust. How can she begin to trust you again?... to believe in your marriage and to have hope...?
Broken trust causes us to close up for fear of being fooled (usually more than once). She might be keeping her vulnerability safe is all....
I also think a counselor might help you to understand that better...
I am no expert on detachment, but much of what everyone has said is what I have come to believe detachment is.
It's just a simple 'you can't control anyone except yourself' practice that is aimed at working on our own behaviors rather than someone else's.
My guess is that your wife has either gone a little awry with how to execute detachment, or she is working extra hard to protect herself. And the latter boils down to trust. How can she begin to trust you again?... to believe in your marriage and to have hope...?
Broken trust causes us to close up for fear of being fooled (usually more than once). She might be keeping her vulnerability safe is all....
I also think a counselor might help you to understand that better...
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I kind of do this to my own husband a little bit but it's not detachment (which is an entirely different ballgame), and I try to explain to him that I'm simply trying to deal with my own emotions, nothing personal. Fact of the matter is that I have LOTS of fear (my husband has much less sobriety and has made a habit of relapsing) and I don't know what to do with my fear sometimes because the idea of giving that fear to a higher power just escapes me sometimes when I need it. I don't want to talk to my husband about that stuff because he also is very co-dependent and will try to solve my problems rather than just listen - which is really a pretty common problem in marriages, that a partner will try to problem solve instead of just being an attentive, compassionate, empathetic partner. I'm guilty of being a problem solver too.
I have no advice, but just the thought that this is something that she's trying to work on in her own recovery. I wouldn't worry about trying to label what exactly is going on with her or between you two (it's very likely it's not detachment at all but something entirely different) because it could just make you spin your wheels.
I have no advice, but just the thought that this is something that she's trying to work on in her own recovery. I wouldn't worry about trying to label what exactly is going on with her or between you two (it's very likely it's not detachment at all but something entirely different) because it could just make you spin your wheels.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,905
Were you drinking when you got married? I'm just trying to get a feel for the existing dynamic in your relationship before I start spitballing with my thoughts. What she's doing definitely isn't detachment. If you don't mind sharing, what are both of your respective Family of Origin (FOO) histories? You don't have to give details, but "she grew up with alcoholic parents" or "she was a suburban princess given the world on a platter" would definitely help see where her mind is wandering.
Until then, I'll just offer this up: relationships built while one partner (or both) is using aren't built on a foundation of honesty, trust, or communication. Sometimes the A will sober up and the partner will work a program and they come to find that the people they are now simply aren't compatible. It happens a lot. Are you two seeing separate therapists for your respective issues? Maybe give that a whirl before trying marriage counseling again.
Until then, I'll just offer this up: relationships built while one partner (or both) is using aren't built on a foundation of honesty, trust, or communication. Sometimes the A will sober up and the partner will work a program and they come to find that the people they are now simply aren't compatible. It happens a lot. Are you two seeing separate therapists for your respective issues? Maybe give that a whirl before trying marriage counseling again.
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