marriage "partnership" with an alcoholic?
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Join Date: Oct 2014
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marriage "partnership" with an alcoholic?
Background: My husband has been a heavy drinker since at least college (30 years); over the last 5 years, it's gotten increasingly bad. (We've been married 16 years). Until recently, he was drinking a large bottle of vodka or rye or more, by himself, almost every night. We have three children. Yet he goes to work and functions amazingly well.
We've been on an ever more steep rollercoaster for the last year or so; me telling him he had to get sober or move out, him saying he's not going anywhere, threatening me by saying he's going to get 50% custody of the kids if we split, and then claiming that our family is the most important thing to him so he's going to quit drinking.
He hadn't drunk for almost 3 weeks, I don't think, and then he went away last weekend with a heavy-drinking relative. He didn't tell me if he drank with his cousin or not, but if he told me he didn't drink, I wouldn't believe him anyway, due to previous lies.
So, now he's angry with me for being distant and uncommunicative. I tried to tell him that I feel like I have nothing to say to him--that I don't trust him, and I don't want to be his babysitter, keeping track of what he's doing. I feel like I have nothing to say to him unless and until he gets into recovery.
He says, in all seriousness, "Here's my recovery plan: I'm not drinking." And then he wants to know what I'm doing (exercise, meditation, Al Anon, reading about alcoholism, SR, doing 90% of the childcare and working full-time).
He says, how about focusing on being a wife, on being a partner?
Can someone explain to me how that works? It's possible that I'm only too good at detaching, yet I feel unwilling to continue getting hopeful about his 'recovery' only to get my hopes dashed some more, and from what I'm understanding from those of you who have struggled with this illness, his recovery plan is doomed.
I'm not crazy to detach . . . . am I?
I think he's trying to manipulate me into thinking I'm the one with the issue . . . right?
We've been on an ever more steep rollercoaster for the last year or so; me telling him he had to get sober or move out, him saying he's not going anywhere, threatening me by saying he's going to get 50% custody of the kids if we split, and then claiming that our family is the most important thing to him so he's going to quit drinking.
He hadn't drunk for almost 3 weeks, I don't think, and then he went away last weekend with a heavy-drinking relative. He didn't tell me if he drank with his cousin or not, but if he told me he didn't drink, I wouldn't believe him anyway, due to previous lies.
So, now he's angry with me for being distant and uncommunicative. I tried to tell him that I feel like I have nothing to say to him--that I don't trust him, and I don't want to be his babysitter, keeping track of what he's doing. I feel like I have nothing to say to him unless and until he gets into recovery.
He says, in all seriousness, "Here's my recovery plan: I'm not drinking." And then he wants to know what I'm doing (exercise, meditation, Al Anon, reading about alcoholism, SR, doing 90% of the childcare and working full-time).
He says, how about focusing on being a wife, on being a partner?
Can someone explain to me how that works? It's possible that I'm only too good at detaching, yet I feel unwilling to continue getting hopeful about his 'recovery' only to get my hopes dashed some more, and from what I'm understanding from those of you who have struggled with this illness, his recovery plan is doomed.
I'm not crazy to detach . . . . am I?
I think he's trying to manipulate me into thinking I'm the one with the issue . . . right?
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
sauerkraut.....You definitely are not crazy!
Yep....I agree that just white knuckling without any kind of program--and, I mean a solid program---is pretty much headed for disappointment.
It seems like it is commonly assumed that just not drinking is all that is necessary for recovery. Unless a person has had a reason to get educated--by some experience, or otherwise...they don't know zip...zilch...nada...about alcoholism.
Thankfully, you do...so you won't fall victim to the reasoning of the ignorant. You will be able to protect yourself, thank goodness.
The thing is..he isn't going to listen to a word that you say. He will assume that you are the "enemy". Most likely, his learning will have to come from the forces of the Universe, outside of you.
He will use...and, is using the standard tools of the alcoholic...denial and rationalization. Also, projecting all blame onto others (you). Putting you down will take the focus off of him, in his mind.
There is an excellent article in the "stickies" section at the top of the main page. It is under the heading "Classic Readings". It is called: "How to tell if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap". I highly suggest that you read that. It will answer a lot of questions for you, I think.
I think you are on the right track. I know this isn't easy stuff....
dandylion
Yep....I agree that just white knuckling without any kind of program--and, I mean a solid program---is pretty much headed for disappointment.
It seems like it is commonly assumed that just not drinking is all that is necessary for recovery. Unless a person has had a reason to get educated--by some experience, or otherwise...they don't know zip...zilch...nada...about alcoholism.
Thankfully, you do...so you won't fall victim to the reasoning of the ignorant. You will be able to protect yourself, thank goodness.
The thing is..he isn't going to listen to a word that you say. He will assume that you are the "enemy". Most likely, his learning will have to come from the forces of the Universe, outside of you.
He will use...and, is using the standard tools of the alcoholic...denial and rationalization. Also, projecting all blame onto others (you). Putting you down will take the focus off of him, in his mind.
There is an excellent article in the "stickies" section at the top of the main page. It is under the heading "Classic Readings". It is called: "How to tell if your addict or alcoholic is full of crap". I highly suggest that you read that. It will answer a lot of questions for you, I think.
I think you are on the right track. I know this isn't easy stuff....
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 865
Hi Sauerkraut, Yes, he is trying to manipulate you. My AH is highly functional, he too is working his program his way thru prayer. I don't like that however that is HIS business. I stay focused on my own business.
Small background:
We have been married 16 years, we have two beautiful children. Your story about the vodka chilled me to the bone! My AH used to do the same. We lived apart for 9 months but eventually I chose to move away from my hometown to make this work. He has never stopped drinking, he has moderated and recently however.
I have heard this mentioned many times on this forum, stay on your side of the street. You worry about your program and he worries about his own.
The fact is, he is an alcoholic. IMO he does not sound remotely ready to accept his disease. He is trying to control you with threats.
Something to remember, actions speak louder than words.
I would suggest Alanon, if you have not already done so. The book Codependent No More is an excellent resource.
These are just my thoughts. There are others on this forum that have way more wisdom than I do but I wish you all the best.
We are all here for the same reason and I hope that gives you comfort that you have others to lea on.
Take care
Small background:
We have been married 16 years, we have two beautiful children. Your story about the vodka chilled me to the bone! My AH used to do the same. We lived apart for 9 months but eventually I chose to move away from my hometown to make this work. He has never stopped drinking, he has moderated and recently however.
I have heard this mentioned many times on this forum, stay on your side of the street. You worry about your program and he worries about his own.
The fact is, he is an alcoholic. IMO he does not sound remotely ready to accept his disease. He is trying to control you with threats.
Something to remember, actions speak louder than words.
I would suggest Alanon, if you have not already done so. The book Codependent No More is an excellent resource.
These are just my thoughts. There are others on this forum that have way more wisdom than I do but I wish you all the best.
We are all here for the same reason and I hope that gives you comfort that you have others to lea on.
Take care
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
So he's finally making an effort to stop drinking and he wants a reward. You continue to be distant and detached, and he's thinking 'I've given her what she wants and she's still not happy'. This is only a step away from him thinking 'I might as well drink anyway.' From his POV, it is very hard to respond to passive-agressive behaviour, even if he's willing to admit he's sorry or at fault.
You attempt to tell him why you're not over the moon, and it turns into an argument where he's trying to say 'I've stopped drinking, where's my reward'?
You haven't said how committed you are to your marriage and what you would do to save it. If you are keen to save it, it seems that marriage counselling might help, as long as he's not actively drinking. My reasoning is that you can express yourself to each other in a controlled atmosphere where the counsellor won't allow it to descend into a pointless argument.
Just FYI, I'm a non-drinking alcoholic, and not all of us used a program to stop drinking. There may be other ways to deal with the fractures in your marriage caused by drinking (if he stops), which is why I suggest counselling.
You attempt to tell him why you're not over the moon, and it turns into an argument where he's trying to say 'I've stopped drinking, where's my reward'?
You haven't said how committed you are to your marriage and what you would do to save it. If you are keen to save it, it seems that marriage counselling might help, as long as he's not actively drinking. My reasoning is that you can express yourself to each other in a controlled atmosphere where the counsellor won't allow it to descend into a pointless argument.
Just FYI, I'm a non-drinking alcoholic, and not all of us used a program to stop drinking. There may be other ways to deal with the fractures in your marriage caused by drinking (if he stops), which is why I suggest counselling.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: CA
Posts: 215
I believe there are all too many of us in the same boat. I know I am. My marriage is 36 years long and my husband has stopped drinking at home. He hasn't yet figured out that he can't moderate....he is still trying. Alanon and counseling for me has been helpful but I'm still trying to come to a decision about what my bottom line is. I'm just very tired of watching the spirals.
Glad you found this forum. Its a great place to learn and share what works and what hasn't....for us. There isn't a whole lot that we can do for them until they are willing to admit the problem.
Glad you found this forum. Its a great place to learn and share what works and what hasn't....for us. There isn't a whole lot that we can do for them until they are willing to admit the problem.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 1,544
Out of all the answers I have been reading, I guess I am one who couldn't handle it anymore. My story is just like many. Drinking a bottle of whiskey a night, fully functional. Until he lost job and collected unemployment for years. (2) I was in this up and down of 13 years. I have a 13 year old boy. It was time for him to see that this is not what life is all about.
I left, it's hard....but for me I felt no other option.
It was affecting me negatively, and I would not stand for that.
13 years....the last three he slid down fast.
I helped by leaving. I won't take anymore crap.
I left, it's hard....but for me I felt no other option.
It was affecting me negatively, and I would not stand for that.
13 years....the last three he slid down fast.
I helped by leaving. I won't take anymore crap.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SE USA
Posts: 599
Yes. He is manipulating IMO. It sounds like he is still blaming everyone else for "his problems". I am a firm believer that there is a big difference between sobriety and recovery. Just taking the alcohol out of the equation doesn't solve the true underlying issues that caused the drinking in the first place. Not to mention the fact that he is what? About one month dry maybe? That is early, early sobriety.
The AA old timers are quick to remind us newcomers who still have a family that we drank for x number of years. Forgiveness and trust has to be earned by time and actions. It doesn't come from just putting down the bottle for a short bit.
Best wishes.
The AA old timers are quick to remind us newcomers who still have a family that we drank for x number of years. Forgiveness and trust has to be earned by time and actions. It doesn't come from just putting down the bottle for a short bit.
Best wishes.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
My XAH used to do exactly the same...put me on the defensive, said he wanted a close relationship but I was shutting him out and not a full partner, I was not honest, etc etc etc. He was after me constantly to justify everything I did or did not do. He didn't trust ME - !!?
The stuff about taking the kids is quacking. I stayed in my bad marriage for 20 years as I was afraid of that very thing. My XAH couldn't have taken care of our kids if his life depended on it, and he didn't want to. He just wanted something to hold over my head.
The stuff about taking the kids is quacking. I stayed in my bad marriage for 20 years as I was afraid of that very thing. My XAH couldn't have taken care of our kids if his life depended on it, and he didn't want to. He just wanted something to hold over my head.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Oh, yeah....threatening to "take the kids" is a common one. Mine said the same thing. He couldn't have taken care of the kids, anyway...they would have cramped his lifestyle waay too much! He didn't even honor his visitation privileges after a few months.
dandylion
dandylion
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Oh Wow, you are married to my X husband LOL!!!
Seriously, for me, it did not work. Too little way too late.
He would try to make me feel crazy and feel as if I have all of these issues. I am not perfect, but I am sure not the crazy nut he was making me feel like. It's called gaslighting, and it is a form of emotional abuse.
I came here to SR, went to Celebrate Recovery, and did counseling with a therapist who helps families with addiction (myself, not together). This helped me see that no matter the outcome, I would be strong enough for me and my children to be just fine.
Good luck to you, God Bless!
Seriously, for me, it did not work. Too little way too late.
He would try to make me feel crazy and feel as if I have all of these issues. I am not perfect, but I am sure not the crazy nut he was making me feel like. It's called gaslighting, and it is a form of emotional abuse.
I came here to SR, went to Celebrate Recovery, and did counseling with a therapist who helps families with addiction (myself, not together). This helped me see that no matter the outcome, I would be strong enough for me and my children to be just fine.
Good luck to you, God Bless!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
Originally Posted by sauerkraut 
Background: My husband has been a heavy drinker since at least college (30 years); over the last 5 years, it's gotten increasingly bad. (We've been married 16 years). Until recently, he was drinking a large bottle of vodka or rye or more, by himself, almost every night. We have three children. Yet he goes to work and functions amazingly well.
We've been on an ever more steep rollercoaster for the last year or so; me telling him he had to get sober or move out, him saying he's not going anywhere, threatening me by saying he's going to get 50% custody of the kids if we split, and then claiming that our family is the most important thing to him so he's going to quit drinking.
He hadn't drunk for almost 3 weeks, I don't think, and then he went away last weekend with a heavy-drinking relative. He didn't tell me if he drank with his cousin or not, but if he told me he didn't drink, I wouldn't believe him anyway, due to previous lies.
So, now he's angry with me for being distant and uncommunicative. I tried to tell him that I feel like I have nothing to say to him--that I don't trust him, and I don't want to be his babysitter, keeping track of what he's doing. I feel like I have nothing to say to him unless and until he gets into recovery.
He says, in all seriousness, "Here's my recovery plan: I'm not drinking." And then he wants to know what I'm doing (exercise, meditation, Al Anon, reading about alcoholism, SR, doing 90% of the childcare and working full-time).
He says, how about focusing on being a wife, on being a partner?
Can someone explain to me how that works? It's possible that I'm only too good at detaching, yet I feel unwilling to continue getting hopeful about his 'recovery' only to get my hopes dashed some more, and from what I'm understanding from those of you who have struggled with this illness, his recovery plan is doomed.
I'm not crazy to detach . . . . am I?
I think he's trying to manipulate me into thinking I'm the one with the issue . . . right?
We've been on an ever more steep rollercoaster for the last year or so; me telling him he had to get sober or move out, him saying he's not going anywhere, threatening me by saying he's going to get 50% custody of the kids if we split, and then claiming that our family is the most important thing to him so he's going to quit drinking.
He hadn't drunk for almost 3 weeks, I don't think, and then he went away last weekend with a heavy-drinking relative. He didn't tell me if he drank with his cousin or not, but if he told me he didn't drink, I wouldn't believe him anyway, due to previous lies.
So, now he's angry with me for being distant and uncommunicative. I tried to tell him that I feel like I have nothing to say to him--that I don't trust him, and I don't want to be his babysitter, keeping track of what he's doing. I feel like I have nothing to say to him unless and until he gets into recovery.
He says, in all seriousness, "Here's my recovery plan: I'm not drinking." And then he wants to know what I'm doing (exercise, meditation, Al Anon, reading about alcoholism, SR, doing 90% of the childcare and working full-time).
He says, how about focusing on being a wife, on being a partner?
Can someone explain to me how that works? It's possible that I'm only too good at detaching, yet I feel unwilling to continue getting hopeful about his 'recovery' only to get my hopes dashed some more, and from what I'm understanding from those of you who have struggled with this illness, his recovery plan is doomed.
I'm not crazy to detach . . . . am I?
I think he's trying to manipulate me into thinking I'm the one with the issue . . . right?
So, you get the privilege of all the family responsibilities and you get to take care of him too. What a lucky girl!
No, you don't have a partnership, you have an extra child. You are not crazy to detach. That is healthy given your situation. Yes, I agree he is trying to make you think you are the one with the problem, so he doesn't have to own up to anything.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 251
I can so relate to what you just wrote! My XAH did the same thing..."hey, I quit for a week, what's in it for me?" "stop being so defensive" "wow, you are so difficult to live with", blah, blah, blah...I finally got tired of the mental beat down...got tired of him trying to turn it around on me. It's great that they put down the bottle or whatever they are addicted to...that is a start...but IMO they still need to go deeper to the underlying reason(s) why they drank in the first place. My XAH would get anxious when I would pull away...detach...start to take care of myself..because he didn't have anyone to put the blame on..he finally had to look at himself and he couldn't handle that.
At least he is taking the first step and decided to be sober...a lot of out here the A in our lives won't even do that...but it takes a lot of work after that...maybe tell him that it is a step in the right direction and you still need time to adjust to all of it...it will make you a better parent and wife...sure wish he would attend AA meetings...they are awesome...I heard once that alcoholism is a disease of isolation...he may have spent so much time isolating that now he doesn't know how to exist amongst his family and friends sober...hugs to you...hang in there. You are NOT CRAZY! I so get where you are coming from.
At least he is taking the first step and decided to be sober...a lot of out here the A in our lives won't even do that...but it takes a lot of work after that...maybe tell him that it is a step in the right direction and you still need time to adjust to all of it...it will make you a better parent and wife...sure wish he would attend AA meetings...they are awesome...I heard once that alcoholism is a disease of isolation...he may have spent so much time isolating that now he doesn't know how to exist amongst his family and friends sober...hugs to you...hang in there. You are NOT CRAZY! I so get where you are coming from.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 251
Oh, I forgot to mention...my XAH would also say the same thing about taking the kids...we separated, (I kicked him out)..he would live in a hotel for a week and then beg to sleep on my couch...this went on for about 5 months until he met another woman and moved in with her. Something that saved me during our child custody battle (yep, he tried to take our kids after he got with this other woman) I documented EVERYTHING...text messages, what he said to me in the car, what he said to me on the phone...when he was scheduled to see our boys but would cancel at the last minute...I kept a journal and wrote times and notes on a calendar. I gave this to my lawyer and the social study experts...it showed I was not crazy and showed his pattern of lies..so please, please...start documenting in case you haven't already...just in case.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 251
Oh, I forgot to mention...my XAH would also say the same thing about taking the kids...we separated, (I kicked him out)..he would live in a hotel for a week and then beg to sleep on my couch...this went on for about 5 months until he met another woman and moved in with her. Something that saved me during our child custody battle (yep, he tried to take our kids after he got with this other woman) I documented EVERYTHING...text messages, what he said to me in the car, what he said to me on the phone...when he was scheduled to see our boys but would cancel at the last minute...I kept a journal and wrote times and notes on a calendar. I gave this to my lawyer and the social study experts...it showed I was not crazy and showed his pattern of lies..so please, please...start documenting in case you haven't already...just in case.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
He says, in all seriousness, "Here's my recovery plan: I'm not drinking." And then he wants to know what I'm doing (exercise, meditation, Al Anon, reading about alcoholism, SR, doing 90% of the childcare and working full-time).
Yeah, but he's not drinking. Where's his ticker tape parade? How dare you not honor his monumental achievement. What do you mean you're too busy taking care of EVERYTHING else in the household? Why aren't you scattering a trail of rose petals in front of him as he walks through the house "not drinking?"
My ex expected so much credit for even the most half-@$$, minimal attempts at adult responsibility, it was ridiculous. Heaven help me if I didn't fall to my knees and thank him for washing half a sinkful of dishes or putting gas in the car.
Sorry, but
Just because he's "soberish" doesn't mean he's not going to be a big, selfish King Baby. If he won't work a program, this might be the best it ever gets.
Yeah, but he's not drinking. Where's his ticker tape parade? How dare you not honor his monumental achievement. What do you mean you're too busy taking care of EVERYTHING else in the household? Why aren't you scattering a trail of rose petals in front of him as he walks through the house "not drinking?"
My ex expected so much credit for even the most half-@$$, minimal attempts at adult responsibility, it was ridiculous. Heaven help me if I didn't fall to my knees and thank him for washing half a sinkful of dishes or putting gas in the car.
Sorry, but
Just because he's "soberish" doesn't mean he's not going to be a big, selfish King Baby. If he won't work a program, this might be the best it ever gets.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
It is all so typical. Your post makes me want to cry remembering that time in my life.
Be true to yourself. Love, respect, trust, mutual partnerships - those are things that are built over time. It requires a foundation built on history. Alcoholics do not want to hear that the house is gone and history has destroyed the foundation down to the basement floor. They do not want to build it again one brick at a time but that is the only way. Alcohol will take down two bricks for every one they lay down. They may quit drinking but without recovery of some sort - they don't lay down new bricks. They stand in the basement with no roof and tell us to pretend we are in a solid house - but we don't have to pretend. We do not have to join them in their delusions.
You can look around at the crumbling foundation of your life and you can build a new foundation and a new house next door. (That can be taken literally or figuratively
) He might join you or he might stand in that old crumbling basement for the rest of his days throwing a tantrum but you each have a choice. You get to decide for yourself.
One of the big turning points for me was realizing that his reality was not mine and it did not have to be. I did not need his validation of my reality - and I didn't have to buy into his.
My ex scared me half to death with the kids. He made all kinds of threats about custody and I was not strong enough to see how ridiculous that was and when it came down to it he didn't make a squeak about custody. He did not have the means, desire, or ability to make it any different.
Be true to yourself. Love, respect, trust, mutual partnerships - those are things that are built over time. It requires a foundation built on history. Alcoholics do not want to hear that the house is gone and history has destroyed the foundation down to the basement floor. They do not want to build it again one brick at a time but that is the only way. Alcohol will take down two bricks for every one they lay down. They may quit drinking but without recovery of some sort - they don't lay down new bricks. They stand in the basement with no roof and tell us to pretend we are in a solid house - but we don't have to pretend. We do not have to join them in their delusions.
You can look around at the crumbling foundation of your life and you can build a new foundation and a new house next door. (That can be taken literally or figuratively
) He might join you or he might stand in that old crumbling basement for the rest of his days throwing a tantrum but you each have a choice. You get to decide for yourself. One of the big turning points for me was realizing that his reality was not mine and it did not have to be. I did not need his validation of my reality - and I didn't have to buy into his.
My ex scared me half to death with the kids. He made all kinds of threats about custody and I was not strong enough to see how ridiculous that was and when it came down to it he didn't make a squeak about custody. He did not have the means, desire, or ability to make it any different.
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