petals

i've just taken the avrt quiz on the rr website and my score was not good. it has worried me somewhat.
i was going to post to ask opinions on something else that is worrying me too...
whenever i say to myself or out loud 'never' as in i will never drink again then i get a knot in my stomach.
is it my av or is it somehow me doing something wrong.
i have read rr, the 5 threads here on avrt discussion and then reread the book, also read the small book.

freshstart57

Why would you worry about a score, Petals? I think the quiz there is intended to be a teaching aid rather than something you should expect to get 100 on.

If you are familiar with the ideas of RR, then you know that the anxiety when you think about not drinking anymore is the reaction of your beast, and the thoughts of fear or uncertainty are AV.

Think about this feeling, and describe it as fully as you can to yourself. Use this next time to remember what the AV feels like. IT wants to drink, but you have made the decision, the permanent decision, to never drink.

You are not your AV. You are a pretty darned good human being type person, and you know what the right thing to do is. And you are capable of doing it too.

petals

im beginning to think that i am spending too much time and energy on thinking about avrt, drinking, abstaining etc...
im using all my spare time to read up on it, or read sr etc.
maybe i need to try and just let it be.
mmm pondering....

anattaboy

I never saw a quiz but wasn't really looking either. What made sense to me about AVRT is it addresses the very over-thinking you describe. I don't drink and any thought that opposes this personal rule is easily dismissed. I say easily but spent 20 min. some 4 months ago talking down my beast. 20 min. VS 14 yrs. in my last relapse telling myself I could not ever be sober was a good trade. I'm near 8 months now and may or may not get an urge but am well equipped and have practice--no worries. Target practice makes for a good shooter. I'd say I'm a marksman. Today is the only piece of eternity any of us will ever know. If you are sober now, you have won. My gut tells me tomorrow will be much like today. Spiralling upward is the only way out--we both know what spiralling down is like.

brynn

Hi petals! I'm an over-thinker, too! Blah! The beauty of AVRT is it's simplicity. Of course, for people like us we think...hmm...it can't REALLY be that simple...I must be missing something! But we aren't missing anything! If you have made your Big Plan then your done! The deal is set!
Instead of using your spare time researching and reading up on something you've already made your mind up not to do (drinking), start enjoying the life sobriety brings!!

jazzfish

This used to be, exactly. Here is what I wrote on another thread, but maybe there is something in it for you. http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post5155451

brynn

As you know, that's one of my very favorite posts, jazz!! Love it!!

samseb5351

Hi Petals

Wow you have certainly done more with RR than most. Perhaps you can try some other REBT based programs like SMART. Sometimes when you go deep (learning and knowledge) into a program, the principles that lie under the practice can look at bit shaky, in my experience unless you hold to a certain set of values (pre-supposed ideas that are bascally unchallenged) eventually the technique separates from the principles. All sorts of things can come out of this, perhaps the cognitive process of observing your thoughts in AVRT eventually loses its hard lines and sharp edges that can be found in your beast/big plan narrative and simplifies down to mindfulness. In other words you can be surprised as the principles drop away you are left with a very useful technique. This didn't happen with me in AVRT (I don't use AVRT) but it did with my 12 step work, things like Prayer, meditation, contemplation and inventory all had value for me even when the I abandoned ideas of the powerless/higher power principles. You can (and I did) get some very pragmatic affects from simple observation and awareness of thoughts and emotions, especially in a space of curiosity not Dogma.

Other things can also happen, you can feel disconnected and pulled in different directions, unsure and caught in the mindset that you are not doing it right, you see others who you imagine are breezing thru and it seems they have something and you don't have it. Perhaps it is an overthinking and even perfectionism on your part But I suspect its a bit more than that,

petals

Thanks for the replies. I am a perfectionist and that does cause me problems. But in my defence I am only tough on myself! Perhaps it's time to put down the recovery information and look at the mindfulness ones.....
Xx

MythOfSisyphus

I didn't realize there was a quiz! I do think you're overthinking it a bit. The point of AVRT is to make it simple. Hence the "Big Plan". The knot in your stomach is the Beast, fearful of your decision to never drink again and never change your mind.

Maybe you would benefit from going back to the "Bullet for My Beast" slide show and watching it again. The idea is to learn to tell the difference between the "you" that is Petals and the Beast that makes you miserable. Once you can differentiate the two it's easier to assert your will over its will.

A key point- merely deciding to never drink again doesn't do any good until you cultivate the skills to recognize the addictive voice. That's what AVRT is- Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. So long as all your thoughts are I want a drink, I'm bored, I I I...then you have a problem! When you realize that your AV/Beast is really a part of you distinct from your upper mind then you can push into a cage.

Nonsensical

Early in my sobriety, when I was still searching for causes and answers, this is precisely what made me a believer in AVRT. Saying I will never drink again caused an anxiety spike. Saying I won't drink for 75 years (virtually the same thing) caused no anxiety spike. Hardly scientific, but it was all the proof I needed to know this technique added positive possibilities to my life.

I learned later that anything that causes my Beast to launch an anxiety spike has a very high probability of being the right thing to do.

There's a quiz?

dwtbd

Use the nuclear detonation of the decision to quit to blast the mountain of the "ism" into a widely scattered pile of molehills. AVRT can help navigate and not stumbling on the molehills when stepping over them is easier. Immediately after the explosion we tend to tread uneasily and take more notice of obstacles. With time and practice we regain our stride and eventually barely notice a non perfect sometimes slightly uneven terrain and just enjoy bounding forward. Make molehills out of the mountains, the idea of the "ism" tends to want to make the molehills into insurmountable mountains.

petals

Thanks again. . I guess I was hoping to feel better about things. I was ok earlier as I knew I had a lot to adapt to. Guess I am just going through a blip.

neferkamichael

Petals, don't be concerned about the score, there's no passing or failing the AVRT quizz. You'll stay sober if you really want to, and please believe me when I say you can do it, rootin for ya.

trachemys

petals, it's so simple:

I don't drink

Don't overthink it.

MesaMan

One thing I glommed on to early on was to not think about not Drinking. Sounds nutso, I know.

By this, I mean I eased out of my Mind the 'Decision Tree' of Drinking -> Not Drinking today. I can't live the whole 'One Day At A Time' Gig.

Instead, imagine writing that choice on a White Board. Now, grab the Eraser and clean the White Board. That's kinda what I did. Think about it. What's so holy about having to make that choice? What if you sorta Time Traveled through that Plane to a Plane beyond in which no such choice is contemplated? It exists if we think it does.

Then, I did this same 'Exercise' with future Drinking. When you 'erase' the artificially-imposed Decision that 'I'm gonna wait and drink on my Birthday [fill in the Alt BS reason]', all the Baggage you drag associated with that decision evaporates. Poof! Gone.

Not deciding is a viable decision if you decide to choose it. For me, all the 'fret' with such 'Planning' just went away. I opted for this path at about Month 3 of Sobriety last year. I mentally parked it beside fretting about 'what if I get hit by a Meteorite'? Both are non-Issues in my Life, and I treat them as such. And, if this is all a Big Fraudulent Lie, and I'm merely deceiving myself, what does it matter? The 'Desired End Result', as we used to call such Outcomes in the Business World, is still all good. I'm permanently Sober.

Not drinking is within our grasp. Not fretting about not drinking is, too.

-----

petals

thank you nm for my rose , you really brightened my day.
i need to take a step back and learn to chill.xx
i just seem to think that any av is a total failure on my part for not doing it properly.
ooo so self critical
xx

Nonsensical

I think the whole point of AVRT is that we are not responsible for controlling our thoughts and feelings. We are responsible for controlling our actions.

Every day I have thoughts and feelings I am not proud of. Stupid drivers I envision running off the road. Hot babes I'd like to break my marriage vows for. Silly, waste-of-time administrivia I'd like to punch my boss in the head over. The list is endless. Add to it the thought of dang, a beer buzz would be nice.

Just another thought/feeling I won't act upon.

freshstart57

That's not what it says on the box, petals, not by a long shot. The whole idea is that the AV simply doesn't decide our actions any longer.

You are not a failure for having thoughts of drinking - the idea is that thoughts of drinking are a normal part of pleasure seeking that has gone haywire from over exposure. It is your beast that is a failure now, not you. It is a failure now because you have said so.

Every time you hear that AV, and you will, now you can look at it with ridicule. Loser. Whiner. Whinger. Jerk. I don't drink any more, ever. Now, what was I doing? Right. Onward!

petals

thanks nons and fs.
xx