Cancer Death- Always Painful?
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Cancer Death- Always Painful?
This isn't about my drinking but it could be if I had any cravings after 26 plus years, which I don't. My wife has a likelihood of metastatic cancer since she failed to have a mastectomy two years ago and now her doctor tells her that unless she takes her cancer medicine regularly it's bound to come back "somewhere". She hates taking the medicine and so takes it only sporadically. So if the doctor is right (he's a very fine Boston specialist) it's going to come back and my wife is terrified at dying painfully. She has a caregiver who has worked at hospices and that nurse says that most of her patients do not have painful deaths because their pain is medically controlled. So do any of you out there have thoughts or experience with this? I'm not asking for medical advice, just for any experience or knowledge with your own relatives, etc. If you have a medical or nursing background I assume it would be appropriate to comment provided you don't give medical "advice". Just having a little guidance would help me settle down a bit, even though it would not help the drinking problem unless the cravings come back and they have not come back for maybe twenty years, it would help with my blood pressure which is important since I've had open heart surgery (17 years ago) and an aortic valve replacement (last April) and my right carotid artery is 77 percent clogged up, greatly increasing my risk of a heart attack or stroke.
W.
W.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: PA
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I have zero medical advice to give & I'm sure it varies from person to person, but my grandmother just recently passed from breast cancer & it was definitely not painless despite the meds. Part of it was the drs sucked at giving them to her on time & when they worked they worked wonders, but there literally aren't words for the pain I witnessed her go through in her last days. That doesn't mean the same will happen in your case though and really, I pray your case be different... Best wishes to you in the road ahead.
Edit: the pain meds worked the majority of the time. Say, 90-95%, its just the times they didn't or the time it took for them to build up were painful. Just my experience tho. I also work in the medical field & have witnessed many pass with ease. It varies.
Edit: the pain meds worked the majority of the time. Say, 90-95%, its just the times they didn't or the time it took for them to build up were painful. Just my experience tho. I also work in the medical field & have witnessed many pass with ease. It varies.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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I'm so sorry that you are going through this. My uncle died of cancer. He was in pain and died right as hospice care was going to start administering morphine. It's a wasting disease and he spent most of his final days sleeping. He couldn't eat and was a shadow of self.
If your wife would take her medication as directed is there hope? I'm sorry and my thoughts are with you.
If your wife would take her medication as directed is there hope? I'm sorry and my thoughts are with you.
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Join Date: Apr 2011
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Painter, my mother died from metastatic breast cancer in 1985. She had a mastectomy and the subsequent chemo, but the cancer still spread to her lung and her brain and to God only knows where else. I don't have a lot of clear memories as my own brain protected itself I guess, as kids do with trauma sometimes. She was very thin, very weak and it was not pain free. I remember her head aches and inability to breathe. I'm so sorry. I know everyone is so different and there is no way to know what your wife's cancer may do. I do know that palliative care has improved a great deal in 30 years. Best wishes.
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P.S. Unfortunately I cannot make her take her medication. She becomes very upset if I try. And I have tried countless times. And her doctors have tried.
As for pain, I gather that a lot depends on making sure that the doctor has been properly trained in pain "management" and this takes research. We are an hour and a half away from a large east coast metropolitan city and have the necessary connections there to find the best people to do this. If we make a mistake then we would switch doctors to improve the situation if that is possible. Right now I would like to try to reassure her that the pain situation can be dealt with and she has already been told that by an hospice nurse at my request. She's still very frightened and nervous and as I have said tends to "displace" her anxiety on to other health concerns. Time and time again I have tried to get through to her that her main concerns should be what happens if cancer returns and also to avoid falling, particularly if that should result in a prolonged or indefinite stay in a nursing facility.
There is of course "hope" if she should take her meds regularly. But "hope" is not certainty. Some persons have had remissions for years after treatment with meds.
I'd be very grateful if there are more posts on this thread. Thanks so much to all who have posted thus far.
W.
As for pain, I gather that a lot depends on making sure that the doctor has been properly trained in pain "management" and this takes research. We are an hour and a half away from a large east coast metropolitan city and have the necessary connections there to find the best people to do this. If we make a mistake then we would switch doctors to improve the situation if that is possible. Right now I would like to try to reassure her that the pain situation can be dealt with and she has already been told that by an hospice nurse at my request. She's still very frightened and nervous and as I have said tends to "displace" her anxiety on to other health concerns. Time and time again I have tried to get through to her that her main concerns should be what happens if cancer returns and also to avoid falling, particularly if that should result in a prolonged or indefinite stay in a nursing facility.
There is of course "hope" if she should take her meds regularly. But "hope" is not certainty. Some persons have had remissions for years after treatment with meds.
I'd be very grateful if there are more posts on this thread. Thanks so much to all who have posted thus far.
W.
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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I have no personal experience to share but I have lost friends to different kinds of cancer.
Both of them seemed comfortable physically to me. That's the most reassuring answer I can give you
sending prayers and good wishes for you both Bill.
D
Both of them seemed comfortable physically to me. That's the most reassuring answer I can give you
sending prayers and good wishes for you both Bill.
D
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi wpainterw.
I am very sorry that your wife and you are going through this. Unfortunately, as you say, no one can force anyone else to take meds or get other forms of treatment if they don't want to. A bit similar to getting sober, I guess, in the sense that the individual needs to do the action themselves.
I did a PhD in cancer research a long time ago, although that was purely laboratory research and not clinical work. But I did work with clinical doctors and also met some of the patients whose samples we were analyzing. I think it highly depends on the type of cancer and its location how much and what kind of pain it's going to cause; it's often also quite unpredictable since the disease can progress fast and take surprising turns. Nowadays, if the patient has access to good medical care, they usually do an excellent job with pain management. But again, the effectiveness highly depends on the individual's own cancer and other components of physiology.
One thing that came to my mind immediately when reading your post: has you wife tried to see some kind of mental health professional who specializes in helping people cope with the anxiety of serious illnesses? Perhaps seeing someone like that might be able to change her mindset a bit? I know a psychiatrist here in NYC who runs an excellent program in this area: to provide psychotherapy to patients with severe illnesses, mostly cancer. They also have a training program to teach his method to mental health professionals, I've heard great things about it. Are you in Boston? Unfortunately I don't know about over there, but if you want, I can send you info on the program I'm talking about in NYC, maybe they could give you a referral. Just PM me if you would like.
Other than these, I saw a good friend of mine fight with cancer more than a year ago, and I was with him a lot of time time during his last days. He had colon cancer. His palliative care was superb and he did not experience extreme pain as far as his confessions. He was also mentally quite clear almost until the last day with all the pain meds. It was an experience for me to be with him in his last days like no other in my life...
So my suggestion, if I can have one, is for your wife to see someone in the mental health field -- it might well be far more effective than discussing these things with members of the family. Probably she also wants to protect you from the pain, even if not consciously, why the resistance to deal with it.
Sending good thoughts
I am very sorry that your wife and you are going through this. Unfortunately, as you say, no one can force anyone else to take meds or get other forms of treatment if they don't want to. A bit similar to getting sober, I guess, in the sense that the individual needs to do the action themselves.
I did a PhD in cancer research a long time ago, although that was purely laboratory research and not clinical work. But I did work with clinical doctors and also met some of the patients whose samples we were analyzing. I think it highly depends on the type of cancer and its location how much and what kind of pain it's going to cause; it's often also quite unpredictable since the disease can progress fast and take surprising turns. Nowadays, if the patient has access to good medical care, they usually do an excellent job with pain management. But again, the effectiveness highly depends on the individual's own cancer and other components of physiology.
One thing that came to my mind immediately when reading your post: has you wife tried to see some kind of mental health professional who specializes in helping people cope with the anxiety of serious illnesses? Perhaps seeing someone like that might be able to change her mindset a bit? I know a psychiatrist here in NYC who runs an excellent program in this area: to provide psychotherapy to patients with severe illnesses, mostly cancer. They also have a training program to teach his method to mental health professionals, I've heard great things about it. Are you in Boston? Unfortunately I don't know about over there, but if you want, I can send you info on the program I'm talking about in NYC, maybe they could give you a referral. Just PM me if you would like.
Other than these, I saw a good friend of mine fight with cancer more than a year ago, and I was with him a lot of time time during his last days. He had colon cancer. His palliative care was superb and he did not experience extreme pain as far as his confessions. He was also mentally quite clear almost until the last day with all the pain meds. It was an experience for me to be with him in his last days like no other in my life...
So my suggestion, if I can have one, is for your wife to see someone in the mental health field -- it might well be far more effective than discussing these things with members of the family. Probably she also wants to protect you from the pain, even if not consciously, why the resistance to deal with it.
Sending good thoughts
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haennie:Very fine suggestions. Thanks. She's had some counseling and it may have helped a bit and I think she might be more inclined to have additional help along those lines when and if the cancer recurs. Nonetheless, the critical issue right now is to persuade her to take the medication. Although I am certainly not an expert, I would think that making her more comfortable about the pain issue would not necessarily cause her to take the meds regularly to prevent the cancer from coming back. By not taking the meds regularly she is increasing the risk of having to deal with the pain issue eventually and dealing with it at this stage might indeed, cause her to be even less regular about taking the meds.
W.
W.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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It sounds to me that in her case and state, it would be more important to try to understand the source of her resistance to treatment and break through that, rather than anything about possible pain management. I don't think it would be easy without some thorough work if she perseveres so much. And of course it would be best to do this right now and not wait until the cancer comes back. It really is similar a bit to an addict wanting to "hit rock bottom" before getting help in some ways, although of course it's also very different since her case does not involve addiction per se. I agree with you that it may not be effective to make her more comfortable with pain issues at this stage, probably counterproductive actually. Once again, I can't help it but make analogies with my own ordeals with alcoholism and other issues. What we really want is to drink without the consequences. So any attempt to convince us "it's okay" and there won't be lots of pain and negative consequences feeds and prolongs the addictive behavior. And we are very good at minimizing the consequences until they hit us as a brick of rocks.
Another analogy that comes to mind is my mother, who had many medical problems throughout her life and had to take tons of meds. She mostly hated the meds, or to be precise, despised taking them as prescribed. She would not take them for a while if she did not have symptoms, then too much when she did have symptoms. She never received any care for mental health, but I think she suffered with depression in her whole life that became very severe in her elderly years. I believe that if she had received treatment for that, her life would have been much different.
What I am trying to say is that your wife at this point may need a more preventive type of care, to get her into a mindset that prevention might be possible... rather than comfort regarding direct treatment of the consequences. Probably a mix of both to some extent.
Another analogy that comes to mind is my mother, who had many medical problems throughout her life and had to take tons of meds. She mostly hated the meds, or to be precise, despised taking them as prescribed. She would not take them for a while if she did not have symptoms, then too much when she did have symptoms. She never received any care for mental health, but I think she suffered with depression in her whole life that became very severe in her elderly years. I believe that if she had received treatment for that, her life would have been much different.
What I am trying to say is that your wife at this point may need a more preventive type of care, to get her into a mindset that prevention might be possible... rather than comfort regarding direct treatment of the consequences. Probably a mix of both to some extent.
recoverystarter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 273
I will say a prayer for you both, my dad died from cancer a few years ago and one of my friends is at the moment.
We were speaking last week and doctors have always said it is one of the best and most dignifying ways to die as it allows you sometime, no matter how little to make your piece with everyone and in a way lets you control you final time on earth.
We were speaking last week and doctors have always said it is one of the best and most dignifying ways to die as it allows you sometime, no matter how little to make your piece with everyone and in a way lets you control you final time on earth.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
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Hi all.. well time that a 65 year old caregiver stepped in.. Cancer is different for everyone... no matter what the Doctors do... do this dig in to her family background ... ancestry.com will help a huge amount. right down to old old reasons for death and news clippings.. it has helped me with my hubby and his problems and pain and family...
and at times it ...is a good distraction for the pain and passing of bad times..
How can we say it will get better.. kiddo If she was in problems in the past.. and did not complete all of the treatments... the odds of it coming back are huge... so love her care for her and take care of yourself.. for the heart is a funny old ticker of time... and it tells so much... with every tick. tock... love ardy and a billion prayers..
and at times it ...is a good distraction for the pain and passing of bad times..
How can we say it will get better.. kiddo If she was in problems in the past.. and did not complete all of the treatments... the odds of it coming back are huge... so love her care for her and take care of yourself.. for the heart is a funny old ticker of time... and it tells so much... with every tick. tock... love ardy and a billion prayers..
Originally Posted by drinkingdinos 
I second this. Any chance?
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I'm sorry that you and your wife are going through this, Bill. It doesn't sound like your wife is going to take her medication, despite the logical advice for doing so.
My mother died from lung cancer 10 years ago and I wouldn't say it was painless, but she did have a dr who was educated in pain management. I think it's crucial in you and your wife's situation to get a dr who is educated in pain medication.
My mother died from lung cancer 10 years ago and I wouldn't say it was painless, but she did have a dr who was educated in pain management. I think it's crucial in you and your wife's situation to get a dr who is educated in pain medication.
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