Soberintexas007

Well,
Tonight my husband reminded me of the denial I was in yesterday when I was beginning to believe he may not be an alcoholic and possibly only a problem drinker. How he behaved tonight reminded me of the all of the incidents that caused us to have to move out of my parent's house due to him becoming irrational and insane when he drinks.

So we went to Applebees for dinner, and he knew that he could have a couple beers since it was an off day of work tomorrow for him. The waitress (who is a recovering alcoholic herself and who knows of my husband's history) tells him that he should get their special beer for the night which is 9% alcohol. Of course he got it. Well, he had his two beers during dinner. I think he wanted a third beer because he wanted to watch the Warriors basketball game until the half, but it was already the half, so I told him we are going and don't try to get a third beer out of me because it wasn't going to happen around me tonight. He complied.

On the way home, he started to become belligerent and aggressive and started wondering why he hasn't received any mail since moving into our own apartment. I calmly told him that he has received mail, and that I have taken care of it like I have in the past. He demanded to know where his mail has been going. I told him that he was becoming aggressive, and that he was only acting this way because he drank two strong beers, and that he has never wondered about his mail before. He was being irrational and insane like in the past. I told him that if he did not knock it out, I would be going to my parent's house to sleep. He calmed down.

When we got to the grocery store, he was pretty aggressive with the clerk when they did not have any more green onions. He saw that something was bothering me and asked me. I told him that I don't like his drinking, and that this is how he gets. He apologized and told me he loved me (if he had continued drinking, I don't think he would have mellowed out to this calmer state).

Anyways, now back at home in our apartment he is "normal" again and nice due to the fact that some time has now lapsed since his last beer. I asked him why he got so upset about the mail, and now that he was sane again, he really could not figure it out.

This event has really shaken me and triggered my anxiety due to past events. If he had drank more, he may not have calmed down in the car, and it could have turned into mayhem.

It is probably just a matter of time that my husband drinks too much, does not calm down, and that I go to my parent's house.

Oh well. In the meantime, I am telling myself just to focus on my own sobriety and continue to take care of myself. Seems like my husband will eventually hang himself, figuratively, that is.

jarp

JB?.....I don't know what to say.

I'm sorry you are feeling anxious, shaken and triggered. Those are never nice feelings.

Lots and lots of people have given you really wonderful advice about your situation. Your path is yours to travel. Are you in individual therapy? IM wondering about the fact that you are saying you feel anxious and the moment, and this post is so full of control...more than usual...I'm wondering whether that is triggering your husband?

It's never ok for a person to abuse another, physically, verbally or otherwise. I'm not sure if your AH was abisive or whether you guys just had an argument.

Honestly looking at it from his side - I'd probably be feeling pretty peeved too. Controlled over what I consume, how much I consume, how long I stay watching a game, being able to access my own mail.....when I think of it like that - if my partner was treating me like that....well I'd feel....abused myself.

One last thing, not to minimise, but it was TWO beers? I'd be very surprised if two beers could produce this sort of reaction in a person. Perhaps there is more going on for him. I'm not saying your observations linking his behaviour to beer is wrong - but it's pretty extreme for TWO beers. Not saying your AH isn't an alcoholic, that's not up to us to determine...but....attributing tonight to two beers...I dunno....

Peace JB.

SparkleKitty

I have to agree with jarp on this, JB. These incidents you describe feel more like reactions to being treated like a child than to just getting "belligerent" because these two beers were stronger than his normal two beers. Eventually adult beings will rebel against efforts to control and patronize them, and you already know you are married to man who isn't in control of his own anger.

I am glad that you are focusing on your own sobriety in the aftermath of this, and it sounds like you recognize this will not be an isolated incident.

kudzujean

I'm glad you realize this.

Stay safe.

CodeJob

you have a tiger by the tail.

You can search through your previous threads and perhaps read them more openly. At times I do this to see my progress. Sometimes a response or two I see with new understanding.

FeelingGreat

Hi JB, this must be very disturbing for you.

It's been a fairy steady progression for him hasn't it?

If he becomes belligerent over the 2 beers, as you might have predicted given the alcohol percentage, then there's still that underlying anger just needing a trigger. If he can't get to the source of that, it's just a matter of time before he takes the next step.

Is there no chance of him seeking treatment?

dandylion

Justbreathe....when anybody or anything comes between the alcoholic and their drink...they are seen as the "enemy". This person is seen as the "aggressor".
The alcoholic cannot conceive of never, ever having a drink, again. They feel like they need it to live. The compulsion to drink is overwhelming to them.

This is about his disease. You and he both, are fighting the disease.

He has not, yet, come to admit that he is powerless over it.
And, you are powerless over him. He is not drinking AT YOU...he is doing what alcoholics do...unless they are seeking recovery.

JustBreathe...I can see that you are "fighting for your life". You so desperately want it to not be like this.
I think that most everybody on this forum has felt the same way at one point or another
Most all of us have fought, tooth and nail, against this disease.

I can, absolutely, understand how you feel.

dandylion

sg1970

If he is an alcoholic then In my opinion the beers did not make him belligerant. The fact that he couldn't have any more did. He is like a child who throws a tantrum when they don't get what they want. We alkies are irritable, restless, and discontent. We don't want to have a couple to knock the edge off or unwind. We want ever how many it takes to escape from whatever it is we can't cope with. We have no coping skills to deal with life. The amount needed varies by the alkie. But if we only get a taste and not enough to escape we get angry. And as you have noticed, sometimes we calm down when we realize we just aren't going to get what we want.

Did he smoke a bowl when you got home? You see we can also be addicts. Alcohol may be our number one choice but it isn't the only thing that will help us escape. The real problem is our mind. It's not the beer or the weed. It's a soul sickness that we don't know how to deal with other than by getting intoxicated. Deep inside he is a very angry person and until he learns how to cope by himself nothing will change.

Again if he is an alcoholic the underlying issues need treated. Just taking the alcohol out of someone is NOT recovery. The alcohol may be gone but you still have the same sick SOB on your hands.

One other thing I will add, and this is in regards to YOUR recovery, is we are VERY controlling individuals. We want to play God and control everyone and everything. Until we learn acceptance, and that we have no control over other people, life is hell.

What are you doing for YOUR recovery?

Best wishes.

ladyscribbler

Sorry you experienced that. My ex used to get very agitated if something interrupted his drinking when he wanted to continue. Once when he'd been drinking we took our sons and nephew out to a restaurant that had a kids eat free night but didn't serve alcohol.
When he found out he got enraged beyond all reason and berated me in front of the kids.
Sounds like your husband is progressing to where 2 beers might no longer be "enough" for him. He probably also hoped you would relent on the 2 beer rule because of that night out at the casino.
Hope you have a better day today.

dandylion

sq1970....I want to thank you for your especially eloquent post!

It helps me "see" what the alcoholic feels when the disease is whispering (loudly) in the ear.

dandylion

dandylion

sq1970....in thinking more about your post....I would make this analogy: taking a beer out of the hand o f an alcoholic is like taking a steak out of the dog dish while the German Shepard is still eating.
Very similar result....

dandylion

Eddiebuckle

Justbreathe,

The part of your post that jumps out at me is the word "irrational" - and clearly your husbands actions were not terribly rational last night. Which was the whole point of your post. The Merriam Webster definition of rational is:Last night your husband likely had the equivalent of 6.5 beers assuming he was drinking from a pint sized glass (I haven't been to Applebees since 2009 so I don't recall the normal size of a draft beer there, but I don't think it's 12 oz). As a man after my own heart, he could proudly say he only had two... as opposed to "a couple." But drinking semantics aside, you are operating from the assumption that he is capable of being rational about alcohol once he starts drinking. Whether he is a problem drinker or an alcoholic, in my experience either of those "types" are off to the races once the first drink is done. It's not that every time we drink catastrophes occur, but every time a catastrophe occurred we definitely were drinking. It sounds like this is consistent with your husbands drinking history.

Here's the problem. As you witnessed last night, once he begins drinking he is not rational: having the ability to reason or think about things clearly. It is not a choice on his part. He did not decide to throw a temper tantrum about mail or green onions last night, but he threw tantrums anyway. Once he decides to drink, the rest is up to fate.

JB, this was my reality for almost 30 years. I didn't choose to be an @ss to my family and loved ones. But when I was drinking, I all too often did. But despite many signs and advice from multiple sources over the years, I chose to drink because drinking meant that much to me. It meant enough to me that I trashed a career, lost most of my friends, and isolated from family. It wasn't until I was considering suicide vs. drinking that I chose to quit.

You cannot make this choice for your husband in any way that will stick. You can run yourself ragged trying to manage his consumption and the punishments for not drinking normally, but it will not change the fact that he is incapable of being rational about alcohol.

Your husband is the only one who is capable of making the decision to quit drinking. To think otherwise, which I would gently suggest you believe, is setting yourself up for a lifetime of nights like the one you just had.

Refiner

If it was two beers of their Brewtus sized beers at 9%... That's a LOT of alcohol in one sitting. His abuse definitely not acceptable.

happybeingme

I think it would also behoove you to closely read what jarp wrote. Your behavior is extremely controlling. That is very unhealthy for you. Sooner or later your husband will rebel and you may either get hurt or you may relapse. Controlling his drinking, drug use, access to money, and his mail. That's just bad news. That isn't a relationship. That is controlling your husband to get what you want without caring about him. It's wrong. And it's unhealthy for you. What are you going to do when it all falls apart?

ladyscribbler

Before I really started working my Alanon program, I would have scoffed at the notion that I was controlling. I was helpful, I kept things running smoothly, I prevented disasters. For me it was a safety thing. I had a terrible fear of the unknown. I grew up with people who were erratic, paranoid and always ready to leap on the "worst case scenario" bandwagon.
For me control was a self-defense mechanism. I was trying to protect myself from the unknown. Then later when I got involved in abusive relationships, I used control to try to protect myself from that.
If I could only tweak things just right then there wouldn't be any screaming and cursing. If he drinks this much but not more then he won't be up all night raging.
I didn't deliberately set out to rob anyone of their dignity or treat them like children, but that's what happened, and a "good day" here and there where my machinations created the result I wanted just distracted me from the bigger picture, which was that I was constantly accepting unacceptable behavior. I had no boundaries. I constantly invaded other people's lives with my "rules", why should they ever respect my space?
I had to learn the hard way (very hard, and I am still learning) that I can really only make rules for myself. Other adults are going to do what they want eventually, even if they seem to be toeing the line for awhile.
Justbreathe, I do admire your poise. I know that I would have been much more defensive and upset about some of the responses you get. I like that you are able to take it in stride and I appreciate your honesty and heartfelt posts. Your recovery is clearly a priority and it shows. I'm glad to see you growing and learning here, and I think that lots of "lurkers" (I lurked for months before ever working up the courage to actually join and post) are reading your threads and learning a lot.
Thank you.

LexieCat

What would happen if you just let HIM manage his stuff? His mail, his spending, his other responsibilities? Even if it seems "OK" with him most of the time, it sounds as if he might be letting you manage things just because it seems easier or because it seems important to you, and underneath he knows he's being treated like a child, and resents it.

I would never for a second excuse abusive conduct, but people DO get legitimately angry at times. Maybe he only feels he can express it when he's drinking. A lot of alcoholics bottle up their emotions and let them out only when they drink.

What I seem to observe as a recurring theme in your posts is this child-parent push-pull between the two of you. He's behaving like a child, constantly testing what you will "allow" him to do. And you're behaving like the parent, who lays down the law, but can be sweet-talked into "giving in" on the "rules"--as long as he behaves.

It can be a challenge to break out of the roles you've created for yourselves, but it seems to me that the way you are living is exhausting.

chicory

I know that you have gotten a lot of thoughts already on your post, but I just wanted to add my two cents.. which is worth about that much, but here goes.

When I am controlling someone else or find myself trying to, I know that it is something that I need to fix, about ME.
No matter if I am trying to keep something undesirable happening or not, I do not have the right to control what someone else does.
Do you want to live the rest of your marriage constantly worrying, and maneuvering to keep him from doing what he wants so very much to do, right or wrong?

It's like taping the cookie jar shut, from a child who wants that cookie so very much. He is gonna focus all the more on getting that cookie, I think.

Are you going to al-anon or AA? I forget. I think you will find more happiness and peace, in the long run, if you let go of the reins, and take care of yourself. Stress like this may drive YOU backward in your recovery.

I think that might have been more than two cents. but I wish you well and would love to see you free of the extra worry of controlling what he does. It is obvious you love him, but maybe are you focusing on him, rather than your own things you need to deal with in order to get healthy in every way?

I mean no disrespect, as I understand how you are feeling.
best wishes for things to work out. maybe you letting go will help him far more than you realize.
chic

SoloMio

The difference between controlling and setting a boundary might be relevant here. Instead of "You can only have two, and you've already had your two, so even it's not halftime yet that's all you're going to get", it can be "I see you've decided to have a couple more beers. I'm not comfortable with your behavior after you've had more a couple so enjoy the game. Here's the number for a taxi. I'll meet you at home!"

zoso77

Why wait?

cookiesncream

JB I hear that you are struggling on a lot of fronts. Its hard to tackle a lot of things all at once. In reading many of your posts what I'm reading into is:
-Your own sobriety
-Reconciling your perceptions of the definition of an alcoholic based on your behavior when drinking vs. his behavior while drinking
-Belligerent behavior on your hubbies part that most commonly exhibits itself when he is drinking
-Accepting the fact that you are indeed very controlling (sorry calling you on this one) and this is not healthy behavior on your part
-Accepting that you cannot ultimately control your husband's drinking at all times
-Accepting the fact that if your husband does become belligerent you may need to re-examine your marriage. At this point you are overwhelmed enough that right at this moment this option is too overwhelming to tackle
-Accepting the fact that you may well face physical abuse in the future which may lead to items listed above.

This is an awful lot on your plate to tackle all at once and just reading it is overwhelming to me and I'm not sitting in your shoes. That said all of what I have said changes nothing for you. I guess I would say this as just food for thought as you struggle with so many things. Last year while I was attending outpatient rehab we had many group discussions. The question was posed as to whether the behavior we exhibited while drinking was a reflection of our TRUE selves. Most of us admitted to yes, drinking exaggerated our true selves. As a general rule while drinking I was most inclined to slur words, repeat myself, and pass out rather than become mean. However I definitely know that there were a few occasions where while drinking I vented a lot of frustrations over controlling behavior by my husband that I never had the courage to sober. Back to my point... its darned hard I know but think about whether drinking is causing his behavior or whether it is masking his true self which is in fact an angry person?

As always when I read your posts I am most concerned about the possibility of physical violence on his part. I'd have a safety plan in mind at all times. If you don't I'm very concerned about the consequences.

Peace,

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