Kind of sensitive subject
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Kind of sensitive subject
I know I've talked about this in 1 or 2 other posts, but it is still bugging me, especially since he brought this up again in a phone conversation AND because of something my sister told me at lunch today.
The other day, after my husband spilled his guts about why he believes he's a drunk, he brings up, towards the end of the conversation, sex and how he could always be sure to have relations with me if he just bought me a new dress. What?? I told him that its not true, but he insisted it is. What the heck! This is just not true.
I know he has a problem with buying the family's affection, or at least that is the intention behind the gifts and money, when he is feeling guilty about his drinking, but what he stated has never been true. We use to be fine in that department until the drinking.
Maybe he doesn't remember the conversation we had this time last year (i think this time last year) where I told him I don't enjoy relations with a drunk. Not to mention, there is nothing attractive about a drunk who tries to buy his family instead of being a husband and a father. Its not attractive when your husband doesn't help parent because he has escaped into the bottle. Memories of being urinated on in your sleep, waking to him urinating on the bedroom wall, waking to stinging tobacco on the back of my head/neck -- these do not keep the bedroom fires burning, nor does being forced into it! Its disgusting/repulsive! Yet, he brings this up in a tongue in cheek, joking, but not joking manner. He just doesn't make the connection that more drinking and it's behaviors = less in the bedroom. None. And its not a punishment, its just repulsive. There is only one in this relationship who enjoys that and it isn't me.
Then, at lunch with my sister today, she tells me that back in August when my husband and my BIL drove two hours to see about a vehicle for sale, he talks about our marriage both there and back, which apparently annoyed my BIL. Ok. But, he tells my BIL that he is only staying with me until the boys graduate. What? If this is true, then WHY all the blubbering on the phone about how lonely he is, how much he loves and misses me, blah blah blah??? I've given him the perfect opportunity to hit the road!
I'm angry and I'm hurt. If this was about a wife that just simply didn't like to have relations for no apparent reason, that would be one thing, but this is much deeper. When he is drinking its like he isn't who I married anymore. I don't know if I can even say completely what I mean and what I feel. I hope someone gets it. I imagine that his bringing up sex on the phone the other day was his attempt to tell me that may also be what causes him to drink. But again, its because of his drinking, not the other way around. I don't feel like I should have to explain this again but maybe I have to.
The other day, after my husband spilled his guts about why he believes he's a drunk, he brings up, towards the end of the conversation, sex and how he could always be sure to have relations with me if he just bought me a new dress. What?? I told him that its not true, but he insisted it is. What the heck! This is just not true.
I know he has a problem with buying the family's affection, or at least that is the intention behind the gifts and money, when he is feeling guilty about his drinking, but what he stated has never been true. We use to be fine in that department until the drinking.
Maybe he doesn't remember the conversation we had this time last year (i think this time last year) where I told him I don't enjoy relations with a drunk. Not to mention, there is nothing attractive about a drunk who tries to buy his family instead of being a husband and a father. Its not attractive when your husband doesn't help parent because he has escaped into the bottle. Memories of being urinated on in your sleep, waking to him urinating on the bedroom wall, waking to stinging tobacco on the back of my head/neck -- these do not keep the bedroom fires burning, nor does being forced into it! Its disgusting/repulsive! Yet, he brings this up in a tongue in cheek, joking, but not joking manner. He just doesn't make the connection that more drinking and it's behaviors = less in the bedroom. None. And its not a punishment, its just repulsive. There is only one in this relationship who enjoys that and it isn't me.
Then, at lunch with my sister today, she tells me that back in August when my husband and my BIL drove two hours to see about a vehicle for sale, he talks about our marriage both there and back, which apparently annoyed my BIL. Ok. But, he tells my BIL that he is only staying with me until the boys graduate. What? If this is true, then WHY all the blubbering on the phone about how lonely he is, how much he loves and misses me, blah blah blah??? I've given him the perfect opportunity to hit the road!
I'm angry and I'm hurt. If this was about a wife that just simply didn't like to have relations for no apparent reason, that would be one thing, but this is much deeper. When he is drinking its like he isn't who I married anymore. I don't know if I can even say completely what I mean and what I feel. I hope someone gets it. I imagine that his bringing up sex on the phone the other day was his attempt to tell me that may also be what causes him to drink. But again, its because of his drinking, not the other way around. I don't feel like I should have to explain this again but maybe I have to.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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You don't have to explain anything.
I finally stated a boundry for myself.
No talking to, living with, dating, engaging with active alcoholics or those alcoholics in recovery who continue to focus on my behavior and not their own.. That was the only way I could avoid those manipulative quacking conversations.
Yeah it's pretty painful to listen to the crap coming out of their mouths.
I finally stated a boundry for myself.
No talking to, living with, dating, engaging with active alcoholics or those alcoholics in recovery who continue to focus on my behavior and not their own.. That was the only way I could avoid those manipulative quacking conversations.
Yeah it's pretty painful to listen to the crap coming out of their mouths.
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Nope. You don't have to explain a darn thing! You said your piece. He is trying to flip stories all over the place to benefit himself in the moment.... ALL THE WHILE avoiding the ONLY real issue: drinking. I hope your family didn't believe a word he said, and if they did, know that whatever it is he is saying is not YOUR truth. Your truth is real and it is important and you have every right to irritated over it.
But if it helps, you could try taking these statements "buying you a dress for sex", and "staying with you only till the boys graduate", with a grain of salt. They are only a reflection of his chaos, and not of you. Those sentiments mean nothing more than him spewing nonsense in an attempt to avoid the truth.
But if it helps, you could try taking these statements "buying you a dress for sex", and "staying with you only till the boys graduate", with a grain of salt. They are only a reflection of his chaos, and not of you. Those sentiments mean nothing more than him spewing nonsense in an attempt to avoid the truth.
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Katchie,
I do understand this. My ex always thought he could "buy" me. I think I wrote this in response to a thread once, not sure. At first I was taking the I'm sorry bit. Then nothing changed. We had bought our first home. I had a list of things I needed done. So then I got the I'm sorry, and he would do 1 or 2 things on the list. Things like paint a room, or plant a tree. Hey, I'm also ACOA, so my mind wasn't straight. I thought this was the way to get things done. Got down to the last thing on my list, and he wanted sex before doing it. I refused. I wanted it done before we "reunited?" in sex. Makeup sex? DV cycle, honeymoon period. I didn't believe him anymore.
Then he started buying me jewelry and then come home and apologize. Didn't work for long. He was lying the whole time, He never changed how he treated me. He came home once with waterford crystal. I left, I took it with me. I told him I threw it in the river, and don't you ever try to bribe me again.
Yes, he also made remarks a lot to other people that I was frigid. I didn't like sex and what was he supposed to do? He wanted pity from everyone.
No, you should not subject yourself to sex. You should actually want to have sex and enjoy sex, and not worry about waking up wet from him pissing on you.
((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
amy
PS - Just know that this is a way in their own twisted mind that they can turn it onto you. I do actually believe their own BS that they spew.
I do understand this. My ex always thought he could "buy" me. I think I wrote this in response to a thread once, not sure. At first I was taking the I'm sorry bit. Then nothing changed. We had bought our first home. I had a list of things I needed done. So then I got the I'm sorry, and he would do 1 or 2 things on the list. Things like paint a room, or plant a tree. Hey, I'm also ACOA, so my mind wasn't straight. I thought this was the way to get things done. Got down to the last thing on my list, and he wanted sex before doing it. I refused. I wanted it done before we "reunited?" in sex. Makeup sex? DV cycle, honeymoon period. I didn't believe him anymore.
Then he started buying me jewelry and then come home and apologize. Didn't work for long. He was lying the whole time, He never changed how he treated me. He came home once with waterford crystal. I left, I took it with me. I told him I threw it in the river, and don't you ever try to bribe me again.
Yes, he also made remarks a lot to other people that I was frigid. I didn't like sex and what was he supposed to do? He wanted pity from everyone.
No, you should not subject yourself to sex. You should actually want to have sex and enjoy sex, and not worry about waking up wet from him pissing on you.
((((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))
amy
PS - Just know that this is a way in their own twisted mind that they can turn it onto you. I do actually believe their own BS that they spew.
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He seems to really believe this. He says these things often with such conviction and sincerity; like I'm just holding out on him. It must really bother him because if he's drunk, he brings it up or uses it to embarrass me in front of people, even my own family. And then the other day, I don't think he had been drinking, and he brings this up. It's like it is always on his mind how I do him soooo wrong.
I don't know. Maybe I should just have it out over this topic once and for all. I'm just so tired of the accusations. I mean, is that all you got? Thats it? This twisted sense of how you believe your poor life has ended up to the point of making you a drunk? Its so effing WEAK and sooo attractive!
I don't know. Maybe I should just have it out over this topic once and for all. I'm just so tired of the accusations. I mean, is that all you got? Thats it? This twisted sense of how you believe your poor life has ended up to the point of making you a drunk? Its so effing WEAK and sooo attractive!
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I have gone through exact same thing. It made me feel like I was taking advantage of someone not in control and not in their right mind having relations. I felt ashamed. I also endured being urinated on...left in the bed with urine while he went to work. I eventually refused to clean it up. I would leave it. He would wake up and urinate all over whike laughing hysterically. I was woken up by him trying to vomit in his sleep. So frightening and stressful living with an alcoholic.
Hugs to you. You are not alone. You know the truth...you always have.
Hugs to you. You are not alone. You know the truth...you always have.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 612
I totally understand the sex thing. Totally. I have always taken that part of marriage seriously, and tried to do a good job of pleasing my husband. ..but then it was all about pleasing him and what a about me? And the drunken relations is revolting. It's not with who you love. It's sloppy and selfish and drawn out in a bad way lol. But then the quacking starts about why I don't initiate anymore or do this or that. Why would I? Totally get you on this subject.
Last edited by thousandwords53; 01-26-2015 at 08:05 PM. Reason: typo again!
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My AH still uses this as his reason to hate me. He doesn't understand the dynamics and the real underlying problems of why I am turned off. I have a sex drive, just not with him and that is truly one of the reasons I need to move on. Heck, he still accuses me of having an affair because I, obviously, must be getting it from someone!
He tells people I am frigid. Honestly, I don't care. I wouldn't want to date any of his friends (the single ones) anyway. So, I really don't care what they think of me anymore.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this Katchie. Hugs to you. All I can say is that I understand and that you are not alone.
He tells people I am frigid. Honestly, I don't care. I wouldn't want to date any of his friends (the single ones) anyway. So, I really don't care what they think of me anymore.
I'm sorry you're dealing with this Katchie. Hugs to you. All I can say is that I understand and that you are not alone.
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Katchie-
I was in a similar place around sex with my husband and his alcohol use. It was a hard one to figure for me and I did not have the ability to explain it to myself or him at the time.
You mentioned in another post recently, and I see this again today that you have already had this conversation with him.....and I think are questioning why you need to have it again.
I really struggled with this part of things for a long time with my ex. I was learning to use my own voice in this relationship and it was such a big deal for me that I had said anything at all.....now I might have to say it again.
I feel like the not being able to hear what I said permeated our relationship and was part of the disease of addiction. Yes you may have to discuss again, or you may choose not to. In either case his behavior may continue along the same lines....because he is not in a place to be able to hear you regardless of how well you say it, what you say and how many times you have the discussion.
I was in a similar place around sex with my husband and his alcohol use. It was a hard one to figure for me and I did not have the ability to explain it to myself or him at the time.
You mentioned in another post recently, and I see this again today that you have already had this conversation with him.....and I think are questioning why you need to have it again.
I really struggled with this part of things for a long time with my ex. I was learning to use my own voice in this relationship and it was such a big deal for me that I had said anything at all.....now I might have to say it again.
I feel like the not being able to hear what I said permeated our relationship and was part of the disease of addiction. Yes you may have to discuss again, or you may choose not to. In either case his behavior may continue along the same lines....because he is not in a place to be able to hear you regardless of how well you say it, what you say and how many times you have the discussion.
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Katchie, if he really has this distorted view of your relationship would it be worth spelling it out to him literally? On paper, so if he forgets he can read it again?
What you wrote about the way he behaved was very powerful, and I can't imagine that if he was sober he would get it.
Just a thought - there may be no point. I like the idea of your voice being heard.
What you wrote about the way he behaved was very powerful, and I can't imagine that if he was sober he would get it.
Just a thought - there may be no point. I like the idea of your voice being heard.
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Meh just more quackery.
Husband has a very hard time with all this alcoholism business. we have heard an explanation for why he started drinking which involved YOU. Now we hear that in order to get laid he had to buy YOU a trinket. Now we hear that he planned on leaving YOu.
Husband is in some major denial still IMO. I think he bought people off so he could drink. I see nothing in his actions that are indicative that he is ready to get on board with recovery.
What I see is manipulation to get back into the house. I don't think I would have the conversation with him again. He's been dropping some major bombs on you the past week I think he is throwing a baited hook and praying you will bite, you are a little bit. Gotcha wound up analyzing everything………Next week it will be another ploy.
Maybe its time to go no contact. Maybe its time to call him out that he has been 3 weeks out with no plans to get into a recovery program - only accusations about you and what you have done to sink the ship. The men's retreat is not impressive to me at all I feel little authenticity in his reason's for going and I think you stated its not an addiction based group. Funny, he keeps doing things that might be interpreted as action toward recovery but they really aren't. Staying in a hotel as you asked without much flack to get him there. Then he came up with that ridiculous lie to his mother that she couldn't stay in the house because the room was messy. Now he supposedly hasn't had a drink in a week. At the same time he is opening up to you telling you deep and really disturbing things concerning your marriage, and how its affected him emotionally, yet skims over that you have had discussions with him on the same subject and he doesn't acknowledge it. This week he heads to a men's retreat……..to me it all adds up to….
ZERO.
Husband has a very hard time with all this alcoholism business. we have heard an explanation for why he started drinking which involved YOU. Now we hear that in order to get laid he had to buy YOU a trinket. Now we hear that he planned on leaving YOu.
Husband is in some major denial still IMO. I think he bought people off so he could drink. I see nothing in his actions that are indicative that he is ready to get on board with recovery.
What I see is manipulation to get back into the house. I don't think I would have the conversation with him again. He's been dropping some major bombs on you the past week I think he is throwing a baited hook and praying you will bite, you are a little bit. Gotcha wound up analyzing everything………Next week it will be another ploy.
Maybe its time to go no contact. Maybe its time to call him out that he has been 3 weeks out with no plans to get into a recovery program - only accusations about you and what you have done to sink the ship. The men's retreat is not impressive to me at all I feel little authenticity in his reason's for going and I think you stated its not an addiction based group. Funny, he keeps doing things that might be interpreted as action toward recovery but they really aren't. Staying in a hotel as you asked without much flack to get him there. Then he came up with that ridiculous lie to his mother that she couldn't stay in the house because the room was messy. Now he supposedly hasn't had a drink in a week. At the same time he is opening up to you telling you deep and really disturbing things concerning your marriage, and how its affected him emotionally, yet skims over that you have had discussions with him on the same subject and he doesn't acknowledge it. This week he heads to a men's retreat……..to me it all adds up to….
ZERO.
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I see I'm in great company here. So many similar stories and all with a central theme revolving around alcoholism. I thought I was alone in my disfunctional home and was feeling so guilty over my lack of interest in intimacy with my ah. It gives me so much hope to know I'm not the only one who chooses not to be sexually active with my ah. So many stories have been shared. Thank you so much for opening up.
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Originally Posted by Katchie 
He seems to really believe this. He says these things often with such conviction and sincerity; like I'm just holding out on him. It must really bother him because if he's drunk, he brings it up or uses it to embarrass me in front of people, even my own family. And then the other day, I don't think he had been drinking, and he brings this up. It's like it is always on his mind how I do him soooo wrong.
I don't know. Maybe I should just have it out over this topic once and for all. I'm just so tired of the accusations. I mean, is that all you got? Thats it? This twisted sense of how you believe your poor life has ended up to the point of making you a drunk? Its so effing WEAK and sooo attractive!
I don't know. Maybe I should just have it out over this topic once and for all. I'm just so tired of the accusations. I mean, is that all you got? Thats it? This twisted sense of how you believe your poor life has ended up to the point of making you a drunk? Its so effing WEAK and sooo attractive!
Yeah, I wouldn't have the conversation with him, it will only cause you more pain, you know what the truth is, that is all that matters honey.
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With an alcoholic, you can never "have it out over this topic once and for all." ANY topic.
What I'm seeing is spin city in full spin. He has to continue to make himself look good--to others, and to himself. He will continue to blame and rationalize--and none of it will ever be his fault.
So I don't think having a conversation with him will make him see the light, or give you any sense of closure. It will only frustrate you more. "Reminding" him of what you said before, or what happened before, will not change anything.
I agree with red that he isn't getting anything out of the men's group. It's something he's doing to make it appear he is "doing something" about his drinking. Have you seen any major changes for the better since he's been going? Any increased desire to get sober and stay that way?
What I'm seeing is spin city in full spin. He has to continue to make himself look good--to others, and to himself. He will continue to blame and rationalize--and none of it will ever be his fault.
So I don't think having a conversation with him will make him see the light, or give you any sense of closure. It will only frustrate you more. "Reminding" him of what you said before, or what happened before, will not change anything.
I agree with red that he isn't getting anything out of the men's group. It's something he's doing to make it appear he is "doing something" about his drinking. Have you seen any major changes for the better since he's been going? Any increased desire to get sober and stay that way?
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I agree with Lexie.
There is no getting him to see the light, or your side of things because he is in active addiction and he is thinking with an irrational brain. If it feels better to write him an explanation to remind him, then do it. However, I think you are wasting your breath, ink, and it will ultimately be twisted and used against you at a later date.
Telling your BIL that he plans to divorce you after the kids are out of the house is pretty eye opening to me. Maybe he is saving face with BIL, but obviously that is something he is considering too. I would not tip my hand about that, but use that knowledge to help accept where he is in his warped thinking and lack of commitment (commitment to you, sobriety, whatever...). There is frustration and venting to friends when relationships are not going well, but that seems different to me. Premeditated, something off.
There is no getting him to see the light, or your side of things because he is in active addiction and he is thinking with an irrational brain. If it feels better to write him an explanation to remind him, then do it. However, I think you are wasting your breath, ink, and it will ultimately be twisted and used against you at a later date.
Telling your BIL that he plans to divorce you after the kids are out of the house is pretty eye opening to me. Maybe he is saving face with BIL, but obviously that is something he is considering too. I would not tip my hand about that, but use that knowledge to help accept where he is in his warped thinking and lack of commitment (commitment to you, sobriety, whatever...). There is frustration and venting to friends when relationships are not going well, but that seems different to me. Premeditated, something off.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
With an alcoholic, you can never "have it out over this topic once and for all." ANY topic.
What I'm seeing is spin city in full spin. He has to continue to make himself look good--to others, and to himself. He will continue to blame and rationalize--and none of it will ever be his fault.
So I don't think having a conversation with him will make him see the light, or give you any sense of closure. It will only frustrate you more. "Reminding" him of what you said before, or what happened before, will not change anything.
I agree with red that he isn't getting anything out of the men's group. It's something he's doing to make it appear he is "doing something" about his drinking. Have you seen any major changes for the better since he's been going? Any increased desire to get sober and stay that way?
What I'm seeing is spin city in full spin. He has to continue to make himself look good--to others, and to himself. He will continue to blame and rationalize--and none of it will ever be his fault.
So I don't think having a conversation with him will make him see the light, or give you any sense of closure. It will only frustrate you more. "Reminding" him of what you said before, or what happened before, will not change anything.
I agree with red that he isn't getting anything out of the men's group. It's something he's doing to make it appear he is "doing something" about his drinking. Have you seen any major changes for the better since he's been going? Any increased desire to get sober and stay that way?
I know this deep in side. Its all excuses. And while sex in the marriage is important, I feel his use of it in our marriage as a possible reason for his addiction is really quite pathetic and juvenile. I wonder if his use of it is only meant to hurt me. I know when he is drunk he lashes out only at me. At least its not toward the boys. But its always sex he is angry about with me, not every time, but that has been the most consistent thing out of his mouth over the years.
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Oh honey, he is just quacking away. Don't fall for it, any of it.
Thing is, they will do ANYTHING to shift the blame away from themselves and their #1...the alcohol. It's typical addict behavior, which is why so many of us can completely relate. If you divorce him, don't expect it to magically stop either. You will just come to a point that you don't give a crap what he is spewing.
Tight hugs my friend.
Thing is, they will do ANYTHING to shift the blame away from themselves and their #1...the alcohol. It's typical addict behavior, which is why so many of us can completely relate. If you divorce him, don't expect it to magically stop either. You will just come to a point that you don't give a crap what he is spewing.
Tight hugs my friend.
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