Katchie

We went to a movie this evening, just the two of us. When the movie was over, I had a phone call from my neighbors daughter saying that her dad had left the family saying he won't be back; he's sick and tired of his family. I calmed her down and when the call was over, my AH asked me what was going on so I filled him in.

AH, after hearing the story, begins to talk about familys he knows and the things going on in them and how the blame in every situation is shared. He made me feel like he was lumping us in there too. That some how I'm to share blame in the difficulties of our marriage that i know are alcohol related. It really made me angry.

We get home and he comes in to grab some more clothing and sits on the couch for a minute. I ask him how long he has been sober in the 3 weeks he has been out of the house. He sits and thinks, thinks, thinks and thinks it has been one good week.

I ask him if he is going to AA and he responds that he has some mens circles that keep in contact with him almost daily. So I ask again if he is going to AA and how often. He tells me he is going maybe a few times a week, when he can. Hmm.

Then he proceeds to tell me that he isn't having difficulties abstaining from alcohol during the day, it's only at night when he is in his hotel and he gets so lonely. He misses us so much; he loves me and misses me and the boys. This is when it gets so hard to not drink. I almost feel like he is trying to blame my making him find another place to stay and his being made lonely as the only reason he finds it hard not to drink. So naturally this is followed with hoping this isn't going to last much longer; that he would like to know how much longer this separation will be. I TOLD HIM the 1st week he was gone that he needed to stay sober at least a year and be working a sober program thru AA and have a sponsor before I would feel comfortable with him coming home. Maybe he wasn't really present when we had this talk, I don't know. But I don't feel like repeating myself! Maybe if he pretends he doesn't hear anything he can keep pushing the boundary lines, but I don't appreciate it. He should know what is expected and so far he isn't doing those things.

He is going on a mens retreat this coming weekend. I was called this evening by a man that has worked in the same industry as my AH and met him 15 years ago. I'm suppose to write a "love letter" from home that he will be given during the retreat. Supposedly the attendees of the retreat have no idea they will be given letters from home during this time. I shared with the man everything that has happened. He said last monday my AH openly shared we were separated and that he is an alcoholic. I filled the man in on the fact this has been going on for a very long time. He seemed shocked and never knew.

I don't feel very loving to write a love letter of encouragement from home. Not at all. I hope I can sleep on it and in a day or two and have something ready by the deadline on wednesday. UGH.

sauerkraut

Hi katchie,
I feel for you. I see similar manipulation with my husband, too. He's been sober 8 days, which seems to mean he no longer has a problem (in his mind, anyway). Thank you for sharing the boundaries you set with your husband. They sound logical and clear. I'm still figure out my boundaries, so I appreciate the model. Hang in there. You know this already, but he's the one choosing to feel sorry for himself rather than going to a meeting where he just might find resources to help him recover

knowthetriggers

My sponsor from back home used to warn me about being "dumped" on. In other words my AH would have these feelings and he is not sure what to do with them and he does not attend meetings so he comes home to "talk" to me. After he supposedly shared his "stuff" with me I would feel sad or angry but he would walk off like the weight of the world had been lifted.
She told me of course I would feel that way because he "dumped" his feelings on me and I took them, openly. It made sense to me, why should he share at a meeting if he had me to "dump" on! From that point I was very cautious about our "talks". If I felt he was dumping on me I would quickly remind him that he should share this with others that would better understand.

I might add that the "dumping" is a two way street. I try to keep that in mind when he and I talk.

Just thought I would share.

Take care!

redatlanta

You know he might be blame shifting. Then again, you asked a question regarding his sobriety and he answered, I think, truthfully as to when he is triggered to drink. He feels like drinking when he is bored or at night. But he drank when he was still living with you so its not accurate to state that being with the family would curb the desire. I don't think he has put those puzzle pieces together as he really isn't actively working a recovery program.

AH, after hearing the story, begins to talk about familys he knows and the things going on in them and how the blame in every situation is shared. He made me feel like he was lumping us in there too. That some how I'm to share blame in the difficulties of our marriage that i know are alcohol related. It really made me angry.

Maybe he meant that or maybe you are just assuming. I do think it would be the rare bird that issues in a relationship were only the cause of one person. More often than not it is how the party handles the issues that becomes the bigger issue. When things are haywire in the relationship people do have a tendency to go outside the marriage to deal with the problem when they can't solve it themselves within the marriage. Thinking of some friends right now that are dealing with infidelity. It was the wife who had an affair. This after years of dealing with husbands untreated depression. Now they are trying to put the pieces back together, but husband is stuck on the affair without acknowledging accountability of the destruction of the relationship in his failure to seek treatment for his depression. I'm not saying an affair or cheating is ok - however, I can understand WHY.

I look at addiction/alcoholism the same as an affair - at least it is to me. In order to move forward the problem has to be treated first then you can peel the onion and get down to what went wrong. His alcoholism is not your fault. Try as he may to say that issues in the marriage drove him to it the truth is he didn't discuss issues with you as have been recently revealed. That's his fault not yours. There are a lot of repercussions, hurts, lies, and lack of trust on his end due to his alcoholism. The seed from which it started and problems in the marriage are important - however, there is no sharing of his choice of how he dealt with it. What he needs to understand - addiction, cheating, alcoholism - are all renegade maneuvers done by ONE not TWO (although certainly sometimes both are doing the same thing).

FireSprite

I think your instincts are dead accurate; this reeks of manipulation. He reminds me of my husband, quick to point the finger of judgment but slow to see his own behavior so clearly. If loneliness was the issue you would have never gotten to this point.... there was plenty of companionship and activity in your household and he was still drinking.

I would have a hard time with a letter like too, given the circumstances. I think I would be more comfortable with a Tough Love letter, outlining how I love him but am not bending on my boundaries.

schnappi99

Love letter to be given during a men's retreat? No F'ing way, that stuff is private business not a circus sideshow. I would, however, share my experience, strength and hope relating to how I'm getting my side of the street in better order... its a recovery weekend right?

Katchie

The letters are sealed in individual envelopes. No one at the retreat will read them except who the letter is intended for so it's kept private. I'm just aggrivated that it doesnt address addiction tho it is a spiritual retreat that is all encompassing of men's issues. No addiction counselor or anything of the sort. He is part of this and a couple of men's groups but none of them are about addiction and are all spiritual.
I am a Christian and I'm glad he has found some guys but none of them understand addiction. None of them would be wise enough to catch addict BS. It's like he's searching all sorts of things but not groups specifically targeting alcoholism.

Hawkeye13

There's your sign.

He can BS the Christian groups since they don't know about addiction.
Doesn't work for you when he says "God can fix it" but I bet it does for them
and reinforces his no-solution solution to drinking.

There seems to be quite a large bit of denial and dumping still going on here from what you've described.
I agree with Know and others that he is both using you as an emotional dumping ground and trying to manipulate you to feel his consequences are causing him to drink.

Big BS and more BS.

I know I said this in another thread some time ago,
but it really looks like he isn't ready to quit yet.

What's you gut telling you?

Katchie

I agree. What he is showing me is that he isnt ready to do the hard work required to be sober. He has spent the 3 weeks away. Dangerously detoxed the 1st 3-4 days but admits he's had maybe 1 full week alcohol free. No, he isn't ready for anything other than to come home because he's lonely.

Hawkeye13

Spend some money on G'ma's house and get it looking very nice.
I suggest beyond the plumbing, check the wiring, the paint / siding, the foundation
and so on and get it in excellent shape in the next few months.

Furnish it nicely with things that are practical, pretty, and fit the size
since you say it is on a smaller scale. Be putting money back again if you
aren't already.

You may need to act here in the next few months if he keeps blackout drinking
and isn't going to engage a program.

I do still suggest a short-term rental for him but if you are still going to be the
one to move, while you have good cash flow, feather your nest a bit.
That's your money too, dear lady.
Maybe if he sees you moving forward he'll get serious, or maybe not.
But either way you'll have a nice place in the end whatever you do with it.

dandylion

Katchie...you have already got some really good feedback.
I agree that he is still fighting the Beast....the beast is closing in on him, and he is fighting it tooth and nail. Don't they all...

I think you handled it well.

dandylion

cookiesncream

I have nothing insightful to add here that hasn’t already been said. Denial, blame shifting, etc, etc on his part is all being exhibited. Regardless of the fact that without a doubt few people are without fault in a marriage this does not negate taking ownership of your part of the problem, which at this point he is not doing. Regarding the letter. If you feel inclined to write something at all I’d be inclined to keep it short and tell him what you regard as his good qualities, even if the caveat is that you know he is not displaying them at this time, at leave it at that.

freetosmile

You nailed it with your last comment katchie. He isn't ready to put in the hard work. I thought that was pretty damn awesome of you to tell that retreat guy about the REAL beast inside your H.

I would feel manipulated too. My RAH likes to do the same thing in discussions...as in twisting the conversation around to almost make me feel like he is blaming me. It really ticks me off.

I don't think you should feel obligated to write a love letter. I didn't want to do the "circle of death" thing for H rehab. Luckily I didn't end up being asked to do it anyway. Writing a LOVE letter RIGHT NOW in the place you are in your life would be like scratching nails over a chalkboard, imo. I could think of a few OTHER types of letters that would be more fitting....

hugs!!!!

schnappi99

I was listening to an AA speaker tape (Sandy B) last night on the 2nd step. He discussed the reluctance of the alcoholic mind to change and turn towards recovery- some kind of search for any alternative to actually doing recovery would not surprise me in the least.

I was tempted to view the weekend cynically but thats my codie instinct. Instead, in your place facing a request such as this, I'd write a letter about my own recovery. Thing is you never know what is going to make a difference and how and to whom. Maybe this is play-acting for him maybe not. The letters may be some kind of retreat ritual but it doesn't mean you have to write what they tell you to write.

Plus you never know the experience of the people there, I would generally expect a fair number of them to be or have been involved in addiction in one way or another, even if this is specifically a religious retreat.

hopeful4

Of course he is lonely, he has alienated his family to the point he is not welcome in your home. What's his excuse when he is home?? My point....excuses. My X is just like this. He has never said, "I drink because I am an alcoholic." Oh no, it's the blame game.

Get this, right now he is hating on Celebrate Recovery b/c they break up families. It is their fault that we are divorced b/c they supported me when I left him instead of trying to get us to work it out. Ugh. Really???? I did not even really get involved w/CR when I made the decision to divorce. I did not ask for anyone else's support b/c I did not need it. I knew I was strong enough to make those decisions on my own.

Katchie, you are doing good. Keep giving yourself the space you need.

Tight hugs my dear friend!

freetosmile

I like that idea!

Eauchiche

Hi Katchie
My first thought is, what a shame that ALL of us have to pick very carefully when and how much time we can spend with our A's. "Normies" don't have a clue what this is like.
I believe there is an element of truth about both parties in a relationship making or breaking it, but when one partner is not recovering, this trumps any other issues.
Your husband has to get to a place where he views his alcohol with hatred, and wants nothing more to do with it.
I am glad you got to reach out to a gentleman in his group with the truth. I always find it a shame that people can attend a church for years and be hiding incredible suffering.
As for the letter, God will show you what to write. Pray to your higher power for direction.

Santa

Your AH is quacking his head off.

FlippedRHalo

Hugs Katchie. I know this is so hard. You've received some great replies, and I don't have much to add, but just know I'm thinking of you.

Refiner

Ugh. Perhaps practice your detachment with love on paper? And that's your letter? Lay it down for him in writing. There's his "love letter". Also, I'm calling bullsh*t bigtime on the only time he drinks is at night when he's lonely and missing his family. Good grief. Yes, the only time he drinks is bc it's raining... bc it's not raining... bc the sun is shining... bc it's cloudy...