Understanding detachment and "no contact"
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Understanding detachment and "no contact"
So like many of you, I love a (recovering) alcoholic. Even though he's a RA there are still a lot of issues and it has been a roller coaster of a year. Even when things were good, I still felt a sense of anxiety because I was just waiting for the next mood swing, the next argument, the next bad day. And I felt like his family could sense the tension too. Finally this year ended and it ended on the same heart breaking note that it started. I just knew that something had to change because I was feeling depressed and I was letting someone else's emotions affect me so much that it was controlling me.
I did a lot of reading about co-dependency and decided to detach and that "no contact" was probably best. I was tired of being hurt and he was tired of hurting me. One of my friends made the harsh comment that I also needed to cut off contact with his family because I was just using them as a way to keep tabs on him. So I also went no contact with them thinking that it was best for everyone, no drama.
Well after about a month or so I realized it wasn't working. It's confusing but I am just as close to his family as I am my own. In fact, I was close with his family before I started "dating" him or whatever. So today I saw them and it made me so happy. It made them happy! I realize that there's boundaries that shouldn't be crossed now, but I'm not about to cut out people that love and support me.
Anyone else ever had an experience like this? Like realizing that no contact isn't always the best response? Or that it can actually make things worse?
I did a lot of reading about co-dependency and decided to detach and that "no contact" was probably best. I was tired of being hurt and he was tired of hurting me. One of my friends made the harsh comment that I also needed to cut off contact with his family because I was just using them as a way to keep tabs on him. So I also went no contact with them thinking that it was best for everyone, no drama.
Well after about a month or so I realized it wasn't working. It's confusing but I am just as close to his family as I am my own. In fact, I was close with his family before I started "dating" him or whatever. So today I saw them and it made me so happy. It made them happy! I realize that there's boundaries that shouldn't be crossed now, but I'm not about to cut out people that love and support me.
Anyone else ever had an experience like this? Like realizing that no contact isn't always the best response? Or that it can actually make things worse?
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Join Date: May 2013
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To me no contact is an extreme move that should never be taken lightly. I have gone no contact with my mother but only her. I am still close to my sister's. My mother lives with one of them. The only rule I have with my sister's is no talking to me about mother unless it is life or death.
I suggest you try that as well. No contact with your RA and no talking about him with you either
I suggest you try that as well. No contact with your RA and no talking about him with you either
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
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It's a question of boundaries; if you're using the other person's family as a means of keeping tabs on them, that will negate all the healing that 'no contact' will bring. On the other hand, though, if you had good relationships with his family members independently of your relationship then there's no reason why this shouldn't continue.
I'm great friends with my ex-mother in law, the sister and mother of another long term ex, and also the brother of the ex who brought me to Alanon. We have far more interests in common than the men concerned - who are pretty much an irrelevance these days.
With my recent(ish) ex, we've got a lot of mutual friends and acquaintances, and I just make it clear to everybody that I don't want to know about him, interact with him socially or anything.
It's worked well for the last three years!
I'm great friends with my ex-mother in law, the sister and mother of another long term ex, and also the brother of the ex who brought me to Alanon. We have far more interests in common than the men concerned - who are pretty much an irrelevance these days.
With my recent(ish) ex, we've got a lot of mutual friends and acquaintances, and I just make it clear to everybody that I don't want to know about him, interact with him socially or anything.
It's worked well for the last three years!
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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Yea, I didn't mention him at all and I got the impression that he hasn't said anything about me either. Heck, they might not even know we aren't talking (maybe that's because he doesn't want to admit he's being kind of an a-hole). Realistically, I probably will talk to him again. People are so quick to suggest cutting out the A, going no contact, but I'm glad I've realized it's not necessarily the BEST thing (for me anyways!). I guess it goes to show everyone needs to make sure they are listening to themselves too.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
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Detachment helps me to have a separate relationship with my ex's parents. This primarily revolves around our son, but I get along with them well. I feel it is important for him to have a relationship with his grandparents, regardless of the choices my ex is making.
This is manageable for me because I don't bring up my ex to them and they don't discuss him with me either.
I agree that if you had a good relationship with his family prior to your relationship with your ex, there is no reason not to continue it. Just keeping a few boundaries in place regarding talking about your ex might be helpful.
This is manageable for me because I don't bring up my ex to them and they don't discuss him with me either.
I agree that if you had a good relationship with his family prior to your relationship with your ex, there is no reason not to continue it. Just keeping a few boundaries in place regarding talking about your ex might be helpful.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
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Detachment is really a totally different thing from "no contact." You can detach from drama or attempts to suck you into an argument and still maintain contact with people. Often it is the detachment that makes it POSSIBLE to maintain contact. Detachment really involves not letting your emotional buttons get pushed (or pushing other people's buttons), allowing other people to make their own decisions (however bad we think those are) and allowing them to live with the consequences of those decisions without rescuing or saying "I told you so." Having healthy boundaries that you can enforce helps a lot.
"No contact" is an option when detachment isn't working for you--when your boundaries aren't respected and you are tired of enforcing them.
If there's no REASON to maintain contact then it's best to just cut it off. OTOH, if you want to maintain contact (or have to, for one reason or another), then practicing detachment can make it more feasible.
"No contact" is an option when detachment isn't working for you--when your boundaries aren't respected and you are tired of enforcing them.
If there's no REASON to maintain contact then it's best to just cut it off. OTOH, if you want to maintain contact (or have to, for one reason or another), then practicing detachment can make it more feasible.
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Often it is the detachment that makes it POSSIBLE to maintain contact.
For my husband and I, we have maintained periods of time when we did not speak to his son because he was verbally abusive and threatened violence. Most of the time, however, we are still in contact.
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It's funny that I posted this thread what...yesterday?! And just today I'm in a situation where I'm questioning my sanity just because I talked to the RA in my life. I haven't talked to him in more than a month.
Well today I was in a car accident. It scared the $hit out of me and I couldn't get a hold of anyone in my family. This RA knows a lot about cars, so I texted him and told him about it. At first, I think he thought I was joking but then when I told him how serious it was he didn't say much, he just told me to call it in. I told him that I did and I finally got in touch with my family. He never responded and I started, once again, to freak out.
He knows my mind, knows how to push my buttons, and what hurts me the most. And yet, once again, I fell for it all. Once again I felt like I had to explain myself, I had to explain why I was texting him. I felt like I had to defend myself. And I realize how STUPID that sounds. In most "normal" relationships it's no big deal to text or call someone that you care about when something bad happens like oh, say...a car accident! You should be able to count on people, not WORRY with anxiety that you yet again pissed them off, that you yet again said the wrong thing, or did the wrong thing. I keep sitting her thinking: what is wrong with me! I'm crazy! Why would I tell him about my car accident! What's he supposed to do about it?! I realize this is crazy thinking, but I can't help think it. I automatically feel vunerable and like I have to defend myself. It's not like I wrecked my car on purpose, it's not like I called him crying asking him to come save me. Part of me feels like I did nothing wrong, part of me feels like I did EVERYTHING wrong. Anxiety much? Yea, I know.
Well today I was in a car accident. It scared the $hit out of me and I couldn't get a hold of anyone in my family. This RA knows a lot about cars, so I texted him and told him about it. At first, I think he thought I was joking but then when I told him how serious it was he didn't say much, he just told me to call it in. I told him that I did and I finally got in touch with my family. He never responded and I started, once again, to freak out.
He knows my mind, knows how to push my buttons, and what hurts me the most. And yet, once again, I fell for it all. Once again I felt like I had to explain myself, I had to explain why I was texting him. I felt like I had to defend myself. And I realize how STUPID that sounds. In most "normal" relationships it's no big deal to text or call someone that you care about when something bad happens like oh, say...a car accident! You should be able to count on people, not WORRY with anxiety that you yet again pissed them off, that you yet again said the wrong thing, or did the wrong thing. I keep sitting her thinking: what is wrong with me! I'm crazy! Why would I tell him about my car accident! What's he supposed to do about it?! I realize this is crazy thinking, but I can't help think it. I automatically feel vunerable and like I have to defend myself. It's not like I wrecked my car on purpose, it's not like I called him crying asking him to come save me. Part of me feels like I did nothing wrong, part of me feels like I did EVERYTHING wrong. Anxiety much? Yea, I know.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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987g.....Don't give yourself a hard time about this. I think that is is pretty much a reflex to reach for someone that you have been very close to for a long time when something extraordinary and threatening happens to us.
It is like we assume that normal human decency will trump other issues for a short time, at least.
I know that you are feeling crummy about it, tonight....but, you know this is just another reminder of why it didn't work out i the first place. Every time I ever talked to my ex husband....I got the same thing---and the situation made no damn difference.
Try to chalk it up to one more learning experience....
dandylion
It is like we assume that normal human decency will trump other issues for a short time, at least.
I know that you are feeling crummy about it, tonight....but, you know this is just another reminder of why it didn't work out i the first place. Every time I ever talked to my ex husband....I got the same thing---and the situation made no damn difference.
Try to chalk it up to one more learning experience....
dandylion
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I don't blame you for freaking out in the face of a car accident, and I hope you're OK - though I know the trauma takes a while to subside. Sorry to hear this.
Reaching out to somebody else when you've had a shock is the most natural thing in the world, including if you know full well that they can't do anything about it.
However, with the proviso that I don't know your RA, there's nothing in your post to suggest that he was deliberately trying to hurt or attack you; it just sounds as though he's totally lacking in empathy and didn't know what to say.
Have you ever come across the expression 'Don't JADE'? Some information about the concept here: OCPD - Scattered Thoughts from the Front Lines: JADE: Good for Jewelry, Bad for Relationships which you might find helpful.
Meanwhile, you did nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with sharing with someone else when you've had a shock. You just chose the wrong person to share with.
(((HUGS)))
Reaching out to somebody else when you've had a shock is the most natural thing in the world, including if you know full well that they can't do anything about it.
However, with the proviso that I don't know your RA, there's nothing in your post to suggest that he was deliberately trying to hurt or attack you; it just sounds as though he's totally lacking in empathy and didn't know what to say.
Have you ever come across the expression 'Don't JADE'? Some information about the concept here: OCPD - Scattered Thoughts from the Front Lines: JADE: Good for Jewelry, Bad for Relationships which you might find helpful.
Meanwhile, you did nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with sharing with someone else when you've had a shock. You just chose the wrong person to share with.
(((HUGS)))
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Join Date: Jan 2014
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I guess that's the one thing I am struggling with: How can he turn the empathy and caring off and on?! It's like some times he is the sweetest guy and he cares even about the little, pointless things. And sometimes, it's like he hates me and could care less what the heck happens to me. I don't understand that all. Especially when he expects me to always be there for him. He expects me to always remember birthdays and important dates and things in his life. He expects me to always be on his side even when he knows he is wrong. And I do, happily! But yet he gets to pick and choose?
But then again, I also know him and I know things like this stress him out and he shuts down. Part of me is angry and hurt and part of me says to chill because I know how he deals with crap, it's not normal, and it also doesn't mean he does not care. It's just his screwed up, alcoholic ways.
But then again, I also know him and I know things like this stress him out and he shuts down. Part of me is angry and hurt and part of me says to chill because I know how he deals with crap, it's not normal, and it also doesn't mean he does not care. It's just his screwed up, alcoholic ways.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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987g.....it sounds like he is not good relationship material at base line. Alcoholics can tear a relationship to shreads. Even after sobriety, if they don't deal with their other issues..and there are usually other issues....they can still suck at relationships.
In a healthy relationship...empathy and caring do not work l ike a spigot---hot and cold.
****I am willing to bet that the times when he is so "sweet"...it has something to do with HIS agenda...not yours.
Besides, he is you EX....right?
dandylion
In a healthy relationship...empathy and caring do not work l ike a spigot---hot and cold.
****I am willing to bet that the times when he is so "sweet"...it has something to do with HIS agenda...not yours.
Besides, he is you EX....right?
dandylion
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Not to make you feel bad (and I'm very glad you weren't badly hurt in the accident), but think about it for a moment from his perspective. You were the one who decided "no contact," right? But something bad happens and now you are calling him and wanting help and empathy.
You can't have it both ways, kiddo. "No contact" means "no contact." It doesn't mean "no contact as long as things are feeling OK and there's no crisis in my life and I don't really really miss him."
I'm not suggesting that you didn't have very good reasons for going no contact. What I'm suggesting is that it isn't really fair to another person to expect him to respect your boundaries if you suddenly change the gameplan.
Hugs, this isn't easy to navigate, I know. I panicked the first couple of times I had a crisis and couldn't call the person I once would have called. Since then, I've built a good, reliable network of friends who I can call on when I need help or a sympathetic ear.
You can't have it both ways, kiddo. "No contact" means "no contact." It doesn't mean "no contact as long as things are feeling OK and there's no crisis in my life and I don't really really miss him."
I'm not suggesting that you didn't have very good reasons for going no contact. What I'm suggesting is that it isn't really fair to another person to expect him to respect your boundaries if you suddenly change the gameplan.
Hugs, this isn't easy to navigate, I know. I panicked the first couple of times I had a crisis and couldn't call the person I once would have called. Since then, I've built a good, reliable network of friends who I can call on when I need help or a sympathetic ear.
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I don't even know how to explain how I feel. I didn't want no contact but I feel like no matter what I say to him I am the bad guy. If I say I'm sorry or if I admit I am wrong, then I am wrong! If I call him out on his crap or stand up for myself then I am wrong. If I try to pretend like nothing happened, I'm wrong. If I ignore him, somehow once again, I'm the wrong and the bad guy! I'm supposed to behave how he wants without questioning him. And he's SO INVOLVED in church and helping kids but yet he treats me the way he does? He tells me I deserve to be in an accident?! He's so screwed up but hell so am I cause I can't stay away.
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I wish people could see him for who he is. I wish he would quit being fake! That's what I feel like, he's fake. Like he does all this crap to make himself feel better and seem better but really he's still got parts of him that are dark, shady, and ******. Sorry I'm just fuming right now. I'm furious and I'd rather post here than rip someone's head of.
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OK, so maybe you didn't WANT "no contact" but didn't you say in your very first post that that is what you've been doing? You decided you wanted contact with his family, but were maintaining no contact with him, correct?
All I'm saying is that it's going to cause further confusion/conflict in both of you if you aren't firm about whether you are even in a relationship and, if so, what kind.
You CAN stay away, you just don't seem to be willing to. Maybe you should take some time and focus on you, rather than him. Are you going to Al-Anon? If not, this might be a good time to begin.
All I'm saying is that it's going to cause further confusion/conflict in both of you if you aren't firm about whether you are even in a relationship and, if so, what kind.
You CAN stay away, you just don't seem to be willing to. Maybe you should take some time and focus on you, rather than him. Are you going to Al-Anon? If not, this might be a good time to begin.
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