In need of some direction...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 182
In need of some direction...
Quick history: Married to my husband for almost 9 years. Dealt with his progressive alcoholism for most of our marriage. No physical abuse but emotionally I was a wreck, constantly being woken up at 3 or 4 in the morning with him outside yelling on the phone, or falling down drunk, dropping glass on the floor, coming into my room (we slept in separate rooms for over a year before he left) and picking a fight, swearing at me, etc., etc. We have a 7 year old son. In August things took a turn for the worse, he drove drunk with our son in the car and that was it - I asked him to leave and filed for divorce. He signed my parenting agreement giving me full legal and physical responsibility with visitation for him unless he's actively drinking. Our final hearing is February 17th.
Current situation: I attend Alanon meetings (although more phone bridge and less F2F than I'd like), see a therapist who specializes in marriage counseling and addiction, am almost through Co-Dependent No More (I started it 3 times before it "took") and am here at SR reading daily. I sleep well, have worked through my anger fairly well and have learned a lot about myself over the last six months. Friends and family have commented that I seem so much more relaxed and calmer then they've seen in a long time. As for my H, he continued drinking until December 30th when he checked himself into a detox facility. He left 27 hours later (I posted about that here previously) but appears to have remained sober since (roughly 3 weeks.) He's attended 2 AA meetings and met with his sponsor once. He's gone to his cardiologist to take care of some health issues and to a psychiatrist for some medication to help his anxiety. He does appear to be making an effort.
I need some honest feedback, past experiences, etc. Does this look like the first steps of real recovery or is this more likely someone doing the bare minimum to hopefully keep his family together? If the former, how bad of an idea is it to delay the proceedings to see if his recovery continues? There is so much other crap - gambling, inappropriate texting, chatting, phone calls with women and lack of any (and I mean any) financial contribution to our family. It's blurred for me what was the result of alcohol abuse and what was just him. Thanks for reading.
Current situation: I attend Alanon meetings (although more phone bridge and less F2F than I'd like), see a therapist who specializes in marriage counseling and addiction, am almost through Co-Dependent No More (I started it 3 times before it "took") and am here at SR reading daily. I sleep well, have worked through my anger fairly well and have learned a lot about myself over the last six months. Friends and family have commented that I seem so much more relaxed and calmer then they've seen in a long time. As for my H, he continued drinking until December 30th when he checked himself into a detox facility. He left 27 hours later (I posted about that here previously) but appears to have remained sober since (roughly 3 weeks.) He's attended 2 AA meetings and met with his sponsor once. He's gone to his cardiologist to take care of some health issues and to a psychiatrist for some medication to help his anxiety. He does appear to be making an effort.
I need some honest feedback, past experiences, etc. Does this look like the first steps of real recovery or is this more likely someone doing the bare minimum to hopefully keep his family together? If the former, how bad of an idea is it to delay the proceedings to see if his recovery continues? There is so much other crap - gambling, inappropriate texting, chatting, phone calls with women and lack of any (and I mean any) financial contribution to our family. It's blurred for me what was the result of alcohol abuse and what was just him. Thanks for reading.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,476
An alcoholic in his cups is an unlovely creature.
So says the big book of AA
Sounds like a typical garden variety alcoholic to me.
Actions speak louder than words is the best way to get a handle on him.
Don't listen, watch.
So says the big book of AA
Sounds like a typical garden variety alcoholic to me.
Actions speak louder than words is the best way to get a handle on him.
Don't listen, watch.
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 5
His behavior is different however only time will tell. His actions seem to indicate recovery but relapse is possible at any moment. this is early in the game. Change is hard... not only will he be changing but you will be (and have changed) as well. Personal experience... addiction is addiction it often manifests itself in a variety of ways. Healing only occurs when some of the "deeper"/root causes are addressed. Observe his actions on a wider scale.
Wether or not you decide to delay the proceedings with your husband is based on you, your son and your willingness/ability to tolerate/support him through his difficulties. You mention that gambling, inappropriate texting, chatting, phone calls with women and lack of financial support also cause strain on the relationship. Have/Can you forgive this? What reasons do you have to stay? How does continuing (or ending) in this relationship affect you? Is it healthy? You should determine what your boundaries are before you work toward reunification.
Good luck. Hang in there and take care.
Wether or not you decide to delay the proceedings with your husband is based on you, your son and your willingness/ability to tolerate/support him through his difficulties. You mention that gambling, inappropriate texting, chatting, phone calls with women and lack of financial support also cause strain on the relationship. Have/Can you forgive this? What reasons do you have to stay? How does continuing (or ending) in this relationship affect you? Is it healthy? You should determine what your boundaries are before you work toward reunification.
Good luck. Hang in there and take care.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 451
Originally Posted by guava 
Quick history: M lack of any (and I mean any) financial contribution to our family. .
I ask you this, how long did you live in h3ll? do you even want to CHANCE going back there? I won't go back there. I refuse. If my xABF finds sobriety (or doesn't), finds happiness , I say more power to him. For my son's sake, I hope he chooses a good path.
However, I have resolved to create our (my DS5 and I's) own path.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,427
You can always remarry if he gets it together.
Right now you've got custody of your son if your husband is drinking and that's something I would not risk for anything.
As an ACOA, I believe that living with an alcoholic, particularly one who causes drama / trauma in the house while active
is extremely damaging to children. At age 7, your son should not have to endure even one more minute of that crap.
I also don't think leaving rehab early is a particularly "good" sign even if he isn't drinking
at the moment. His effort is fairly minimal overall from what you've described.
Has he made any effort to give you any consistant money towards support for his child since you been apart?
Things like not helping financially and the stuff with the women would be issues I would want to see addressed before I re-entangled with him.
Actions over time.
You actually leaving seems to have been the only thing to get him this far.
If you take him back, do you really think he will step up or not?
Right now you've got custody of your son if your husband is drinking and that's something I would not risk for anything.
As an ACOA, I believe that living with an alcoholic, particularly one who causes drama / trauma in the house while active
is extremely damaging to children. At age 7, your son should not have to endure even one more minute of that crap.
I also don't think leaving rehab early is a particularly "good" sign even if he isn't drinking
at the moment. His effort is fairly minimal overall from what you've described.
Has he made any effort to give you any consistant money towards support for his child since you been apart?
Things like not helping financially and the stuff with the women would be issues I would want to see addressed before I re-entangled with him.
Actions over time.
You actually leaving seems to have been the only thing to get him this far.
If you take him back, do you really think he will step up or not?
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Don't get your hopes up at this stage. Like already said, actions speak louder than words. He is being a particularly good boy as he has the eyes of the court on him now.
Expecting too much at this stage will only bum you out when it abruptly gets yanked out from under you again.
Expecting too much at this stage will only bum you out when it abruptly gets yanked out from under you again.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Protect yourself and your son and complete the divorce.
Let him do what he does, and watch. If he is sober a full year, then maybe he is on the way to recovery from alcoholism. The other stuff still needs to be addressed.
What you will come to understand is that there is a better, healthier life for you and your son out there without him. If he truly wants to be back in your lives, he will earn his way back by sustained recovery over a number of years.
ShootingStar1
Let him do what he does, and watch. If he is sober a full year, then maybe he is on the way to recovery from alcoholism. The other stuff still needs to be addressed.
What you will come to understand is that there is a better, healthier life for you and your son out there without him. If he truly wants to be back in your lives, he will earn his way back by sustained recovery over a number of years.
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,103
Let's look at the facts you stated.
Walked out of detox.
Is now on pills.
3 weeks sober, maybe?
Only 2 AA meetings.
Sounds like he switched the booze to pills. Is doing bare minimum for real recovery and there is a laundry list, gambling, other woman and a lack of financial responsibility towards his family that still has be addressed.
It would be nice and neat and tidy to blame his inappropriate behavior with other woman on booze and the fact he doesn't put his wife or child first on his financial list. But those facts come with who he is booze or not because he will forever live his life always being one bad decision away from drinking again and all that other behavior comes with it.
You should seriously ask yourself if you and your childs well being is worth gambling on an alcoholics 3 weeks of no booze but now on pills doing the bare basics is worth it.
My personal experience, a good indication of someone's future behavior is with their past behavior.
Walked out of detox.
Is now on pills.
3 weeks sober, maybe?
Only 2 AA meetings.
Sounds like he switched the booze to pills. Is doing bare minimum for real recovery and there is a laundry list, gambling, other woman and a lack of financial responsibility towards his family that still has be addressed.
It would be nice and neat and tidy to blame his inappropriate behavior with other woman on booze and the fact he doesn't put his wife or child first on his financial list. But those facts come with who he is booze or not because he will forever live his life always being one bad decision away from drinking again and all that other behavior comes with it.
You should seriously ask yourself if you and your childs well being is worth gambling on an alcoholics 3 weeks of no booze but now on pills doing the bare basics is worth it.
My personal experience, a good indication of someone's future behavior is with their past behavior.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Ayer, MA
Posts: 87
Hi, guava. Shootingstar hit the nail on the head. As I'm sure you know, alcoholics are master manipulators. If they fear they are losing control, they'll say anything to get it back. 2 AA meetings does not sound like much of a commitment to sobriety. My AXBF (we have a 6 year old son together), was in detox and rehab twice last year. The last time, he seemed really serious about it. He was going to AA meetings, but only once a week. then he stopped going altogether. Guess what happened? He started drinking again, lying about it, and being his usual drunk, abusive, a-hole self. I finally kicked him out and went no-contact. I have been dealing with this for 7 years. Tried everything I could think of to help him. Now I say eff him. My son and I are on our own, and I have never been happier. I feel like the woman I am meant to be. So...words mean nothing. Watch his actions. Then decide for yourself 
Sober since 10th April 2012
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 6,047
guava it's early days. He'd need to be sober for a year or more before you could take that part seriously. And sobriety is a very fragile process which more emotional drama could derail.
But let's say he is sober from now on, what's he doing to correct his other behaviours? There's emotional and possibly physical cheating, gambling while not meeting his financial responsibilities to you and your son.
You ask if it's the start of recovery. Only time will tell, but it would have to encompass much more than just staying sober.
But let's say he is sober from now on, what's he doing to correct his other behaviours? There's emotional and possibly physical cheating, gambling while not meeting his financial responsibilities to you and your son.
You ask if it's the start of recovery. Only time will tell, but it would have to encompass much more than just staying sober.
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
One thing someone told me when I was married to an A was, "Every day you stay, you make the choice to stay."
I hadn't seen it that way; I had seen it as leaving was a choice, but staying was just... letting things continue.
I think I would ask myself the question: What are my reasons for wanting to stay in this marriage? Other than the fact that we've been married for 9 years. What does this person add to my life right now?
I hadn't seen it that way; I had seen it as leaving was a choice, but staying was just... letting things continue.
I think I would ask myself the question: What are my reasons for wanting to stay in this marriage? Other than the fact that we've been married for 9 years. What does this person add to my life right now?
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
It looks to me like someone who knows a divorce is about to be final and wants to hang on with their last strings. It's great that he is going to AA, however, three weeks is a very very short amount of time. It's actions over the course of a long time that count.
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. That is sad, but very true. That's not to say he cannot do it, it's just to say it's much too early to tell.
XXX
The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior. That is sad, but very true. That's not to say he cannot do it, it's just to say it's much too early to tell.
XXX
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Join Date: May 2013
Location: uk
Posts: 368
May I ask, how do you know he has been to 2 AA meetings? If he told you that, that's kind of sad that he's proud of going to.just 2 in 3weeks. Not all alcoholics are cheaters and abusers and awful partners. Soinds like he's not drinking, but doesn't sound.much like recovery.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
APPEARS to have been sober for ROUGHLY three weeks. that's a positive spin if i ever heard one....
what do YOU want Guava? are you looking for ANY sign you can find to put things on hold? do you REALLY think this guy can turn it ALL around and really be the husband and father you and your son deserve? has he ever demonstrated he even WANTS to be that guy?
you've come too far to let yourself be sidelined by this most minimal of effort this LATE in the game, don'tcha think????
what do YOU want Guava? are you looking for ANY sign you can find to put things on hold? do you REALLY think this guy can turn it ALL around and really be the husband and father you and your son deserve? has he ever demonstrated he even WANTS to be that guy?
you've come too far to let yourself be sidelined by this most minimal of effort this LATE in the game, don'tcha think????
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 322
I completely agree with Hawkeye here - you have custody of your son agreed to and that is something that you don't ever want to back track on for your own mental health and the safety of your son.
At this stage, I'd personally go through with the divorce. I've known more than a few couples that have divorced and remarried later on down the road.
Alcoholism aside, the other issues you've mentioned would be deal breakers for me. That isn't a marriage. Were they a result of the alcoholism? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not.
I divorced my ex-husband. I had the same agreement with custody that you have now and although he was showing signs of improvement by the time we actually stood in front of the judge and signed the final agreement, there was NO WAY I was going to chance it. I went through with the divorce. I still hoped there was a chance of us working things out down the road, but no way was I giving up what I had in terms of my daughter's safety.
He's been sober for over a year. He's not working a program, but he is doing individual counseling. I pray, for his sake and especially for our daughter, that it sticks this time. I have my doubts, but so far, so good. The thing is though, the issues that I thought were caused by the drinking, weren't. They were just him and how he is. Don't get me wrong, some things have changed and he and I are able to be friends now, but after being away from the marriage for this long and seeing how much hasn't changed, there is no way I could ever go back. Because of our daughter and her adoration of her dad, it does make me feel terribly guilty sometimes, but, I'd be miserable and honestly, I think me being happy with myself and my life is better for her than mom and dad being together and one, or both, being very unhappy.
It took me a long time to get over my idea of the perfect happy family. It's not easy. The day of the actual divorce was an extremely emotional day for me, but honestly, he and I do better now then we did the last few years of our marriage.
Best of luck to you. Don't give that custody agreement up! You'll may live to regret it if you do.
At this stage, I'd personally go through with the divorce. I've known more than a few couples that have divorced and remarried later on down the road.
Alcoholism aside, the other issues you've mentioned would be deal breakers for me. That isn't a marriage. Were they a result of the alcoholism? Who knows. Maybe, maybe not.
I divorced my ex-husband. I had the same agreement with custody that you have now and although he was showing signs of improvement by the time we actually stood in front of the judge and signed the final agreement, there was NO WAY I was going to chance it. I went through with the divorce. I still hoped there was a chance of us working things out down the road, but no way was I giving up what I had in terms of my daughter's safety.
He's been sober for over a year. He's not working a program, but he is doing individual counseling. I pray, for his sake and especially for our daughter, that it sticks this time. I have my doubts, but so far, so good. The thing is though, the issues that I thought were caused by the drinking, weren't. They were just him and how he is. Don't get me wrong, some things have changed and he and I are able to be friends now, but after being away from the marriage for this long and seeing how much hasn't changed, there is no way I could ever go back. Because of our daughter and her adoration of her dad, it does make me feel terribly guilty sometimes, but, I'd be miserable and honestly, I think me being happy with myself and my life is better for her than mom and dad being together and one, or both, being very unhappy.
It took me a long time to get over my idea of the perfect happy family. It's not easy. The day of the actual divorce was an extremely emotional day for me, but honestly, he and I do better now then we did the last few years of our marriage.
Best of luck to you. Don't give that custody agreement up! You'll may live to regret it if you do.
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Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,222
AA recommendation is 90 meetings in 90 days although this is a lot to ask. 2 meetings is nothing, won't even scrape the surface of what is required. You have done such as amazing job of getting to where you are. If I were you I would insist on the minimum of contact for 6 months while you focus on your own recovery and let him handle his. Then see where you both are in six months. If after six months you have any doubts whatsoever about his drinking give it another six. You have not recovered yet and he hasn't really even started. Making an effort is meaningless. There is only full abstinence and recovery for an alcoholic.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 182
I so appreciate everyone's input! Seriously - I know it takes a while to write a post and share your thoughts and I thank you.
To answer a couple of the questions that were raised...
-No, he has not made any effort to give me any consistant money towards our child's support since he has been away.
-As to how I know he went to two meetings, he brought back a chip from the 1st meeting and a book from the 2nd. (I'm trying to stay out of it and didn't ask to see anything but I guess he's grown accustomed to me not believing what he says.)
-With the exception of a three week period in July, he has lived with his parents since January 2014. My son and I have remained in our house. (Only my name on the mortgage - I make all payments - I'll keep per the divorce agreement. Not a huge win considering it's value pretty much equals the debt but important to me to provide stability to our son.) My husband does comes over most evenings for have dinner with us and we do some weekend things together.
I agree 90 AA meetings in 90 days would have been much more encouraging. My therapist told me if he had cancer and needed treatment for an hour a day for 3 months he'd find a way to be there. That put it into perspective for me. After going to the first two Saturday night meetings, he skipped last week's and then cancelled the meeting with his sponsor last night. I'm just underwhelmed by the effort.
I think FlippedRHalo hit the reason I'm needing a little extra (okay - maybe a lot of extra!) support and confirmation right now...it's hard to get over "the idea of the perfect happy family." I know hearing that this is a permanent arrangement will be hard on my son. And I'm kind of grieving the loss of my little dream I guess. Yep - I still have more work to do on me. My son is my #1 priority and I don't ever want him to ride in a car with, live with or be subjected to an active alcoholic. Moving forward is my best means to protect him but the next 3 weeks might be a little rough. Thank you all again for your kind words, objective viewpoints and support!
To answer a couple of the questions that were raised...
-No, he has not made any effort to give me any consistant money towards our child's support since he has been away.
-As to how I know he went to two meetings, he brought back a chip from the 1st meeting and a book from the 2nd. (I'm trying to stay out of it and didn't ask to see anything but I guess he's grown accustomed to me not believing what he says.)
-With the exception of a three week period in July, he has lived with his parents since January 2014. My son and I have remained in our house. (Only my name on the mortgage - I make all payments - I'll keep per the divorce agreement. Not a huge win considering it's value pretty much equals the debt but important to me to provide stability to our son.) My husband does comes over most evenings for have dinner with us and we do some weekend things together.
I agree 90 AA meetings in 90 days would have been much more encouraging. My therapist told me if he had cancer and needed treatment for an hour a day for 3 months he'd find a way to be there. That put it into perspective for me. After going to the first two Saturday night meetings, he skipped last week's and then cancelled the meeting with his sponsor last night. I'm just underwhelmed by the effort.
I think FlippedRHalo hit the reason I'm needing a little extra (okay - maybe a lot of extra!) support and confirmation right now...it's hard to get over "the idea of the perfect happy family." I know hearing that this is a permanent arrangement will be hard on my son. And I'm kind of grieving the loss of my little dream I guess. Yep - I still have more work to do on me. My son is my #1 priority and I don't ever want him to ride in a car with, live with or be subjected to an active alcoholic. Moving forward is my best means to protect him but the next 3 weeks might be a little rough. Thank you all again for your kind words, objective viewpoints and support!
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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guava -
Despite the difficult situation you are in, it seems you are on the right track. You are getting support for yourself, protecting your family and maintaining perspective.
Here is a thread which talks about a book which I think would be really beneficial to you. I just discovered it today and I'm excited to read and contribute to the thread. Here it is -
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-families.html
Despite the difficult situation you are in, it seems you are on the right track. You are getting support for yourself, protecting your family and maintaining perspective.
Here is a thread which talks about a book which I think would be really beneficial to you. I just discovered it today and I'm excited to read and contribute to the thread. Here it is -
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-families.html
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