Crystal ball anyone?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Crystal ball anyone?
Who wouldn't love one, to be able to see the future? I know--it would take all the fun out of surprises if you knew the future. Unfortunately, I am not much liking surprises much in life any more. And as we all know, the future isn't promised or guaranteed anyway. And with that...
My RAW has been sober for about 3 weeks. She has been at inpatient rehab and is due to come out in about 10 days. Today, she sent me an email regarding her thoughts for the future and what she would like to do. BTW, she is also bipolar. She would like to:
1. Resign from her job, which she has had for less than 3 months
2. Continue treatment with IOP, after which she would follow-up with individual and marital counseling
3. Focus on her health with yoga, exercise, meditation, etc.
4. Spend more time together when I am not at work
5. Volunteer a lot, and maybe even start a support group for women
6. Get a dog which may ultimately play a role in service
7. Explore the possibility of writing children's books (she is a very good writer)
I want to support her dreams. She has talent, passion, drive, and energy. However, she also has alcoholism and bipolar disorder. While my first thought is, "Great, those are awesome ideas!", the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should be concerned. I know they counsel the recovering alcoholics not make any major changes within the first year. These seem like some major changes. As I look at things, I am all for 2, 3, 4, and even 5. 1, 6, and 7 are a little trickier for me. Her counselor told me that she needs to be busy a lot and, ideally, it would be awesome if she was essentially exhausted every night. If she quits her job with nothing else lined up, not only will she not be busy, but she won't have to be accountable to anyone during the day (outside of IOP), which seems like it's just begging for a relapse. A dog would likely keep her quite busy, but would it also add a potentially unnecessary complication to an already complex situation? Would it add pressure? And #7 is something I feel she is totally capable of doing. That said, if she were unsuccessful in that, would failure likely impact her self-esteem to the point where she might be more likely to relapse?
I know, I know...where's that crystal ball? No such thing, I get it. But I would like to draw on the knowledge and experience of everyone here. What do you think of her goals? Something that also concerns me is what she did not mention, which specifically was AA and getting a sponsor. Maybe she intends to do that and just did not mention it. She raves about how awesome AA meetings are when she goes to them now. But she is not religious and it may be that she will not want to go to them when she gets out since she struggles with typical definitions of God.
Have at it and thank you in advance for your valued time and opinions.
My RAW has been sober for about 3 weeks. She has been at inpatient rehab and is due to come out in about 10 days. Today, she sent me an email regarding her thoughts for the future and what she would like to do. BTW, she is also bipolar. She would like to:
1. Resign from her job, which she has had for less than 3 months
2. Continue treatment with IOP, after which she would follow-up with individual and marital counseling
3. Focus on her health with yoga, exercise, meditation, etc.
4. Spend more time together when I am not at work
5. Volunteer a lot, and maybe even start a support group for women
6. Get a dog which may ultimately play a role in service
7. Explore the possibility of writing children's books (she is a very good writer)
I want to support her dreams. She has talent, passion, drive, and energy. However, she also has alcoholism and bipolar disorder. While my first thought is, "Great, those are awesome ideas!", the more I think about it, the more I wonder if I should be concerned. I know they counsel the recovering alcoholics not make any major changes within the first year. These seem like some major changes. As I look at things, I am all for 2, 3, 4, and even 5. 1, 6, and 7 are a little trickier for me. Her counselor told me that she needs to be busy a lot and, ideally, it would be awesome if she was essentially exhausted every night. If she quits her job with nothing else lined up, not only will she not be busy, but she won't have to be accountable to anyone during the day (outside of IOP), which seems like it's just begging for a relapse. A dog would likely keep her quite busy, but would it also add a potentially unnecessary complication to an already complex situation? Would it add pressure? And #7 is something I feel she is totally capable of doing. That said, if she were unsuccessful in that, would failure likely impact her self-esteem to the point where she might be more likely to relapse?
I know, I know...where's that crystal ball? No such thing, I get it. But I would like to draw on the knowledge and experience of everyone here. What do you think of her goals? Something that also concerns me is what she did not mention, which specifically was AA and getting a sponsor. Maybe she intends to do that and just did not mention it. She raves about how awesome AA meetings are when she goes to them now. But she is not religious and it may be that she will not want to go to them when she gets out since she struggles with typical definitions of God.
Have at it and thank you in advance for your valued time and opinions.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Dunno.
Could MAYBE help YOU with YOUR Crystal Ball Fortune Cookie Tales . . . if you wanted.
Your Future (if you were to choose it) towards Getting Better. Since you seem to like numbered lists . . . .
1. Say wow. SHE has a Problem.
2. Say well, IF I am with her . . . chances are I have a Problem [had a T tell me that, but it took my kids to explain it to me]
3. Check YOURSELF into Alanon, Celebrate Recovery, whatever.
4. Get a Sponsor, Do the Steps Work, Go Help Others.
5. Be able to look at this without the FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt)
====================
Meanwhile. Not Dog, nor Job, nor Yoga, day or night . . . can tend to lift or change what she has to deal with.
Perhaps if SHE works the Program, gets a Sponsor, does the Steps, Helps others -- all that -- SHE may come out ok.
But NONE of that is YOUR Problem nor YOUR Program.
===============
And I follow exactly NONE of that is what you asked.
But when You are ready for it . . . it is a Very Fine Answer.
Could MAYBE help YOU with YOUR Crystal Ball Fortune Cookie Tales . . . if you wanted.
Your Future (if you were to choose it) towards Getting Better. Since you seem to like numbered lists . . . .
1. Say wow. SHE has a Problem.
2. Say well, IF I am with her . . . chances are I have a Problem [had a T tell me that, but it took my kids to explain it to me]
3. Check YOURSELF into Alanon, Celebrate Recovery, whatever.
4. Get a Sponsor, Do the Steps Work, Go Help Others.
5. Be able to look at this without the FOG (Fear, Obligation, and Guilt)
====================
Meanwhile. Not Dog, nor Job, nor Yoga, day or night . . . can tend to lift or change what she has to deal with.
Perhaps if SHE works the Program, gets a Sponsor, does the Steps, Helps others -- all that -- SHE may come out ok.
But NONE of that is YOUR Problem nor YOUR Program.
===============
And I follow exactly NONE of that is what you asked.
But when You are ready for it . . . it is a Very Fine Answer.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: South Central USA
Posts: 1,478
Hmmm. I'll take a stab. With all I'm learning and trying to implement, my 1st thought is that it's her journey and her recovery to figure and work out. Maybe all or none of her ideas work. What's the worst thing that could happen? She fails? She relapses? These are all possibilities if she changes nothing.
if you had a Crystal ball it would probably say you need to continue working on your mental health and independence vs codependency so that you're ready for anything.
I'm in the boat with you...hugs. I hope all of her and your dreams come true!!
if you had a Crystal ball it would probably say you need to continue working on your mental health and independence vs codependency so that you're ready for anything.
I'm in the boat with you...hugs. I hope all of her and your dreams come true!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Hammer, I think I get the gist of your post and I **think** you misunderstand. Although maybe it's me that is having the misunderstanding.
She asked me what I thought about her ideas. None of them were mine nor did I solicit them. However, as my wife, I think it is reasonable to expect that she will want my input on some things in life. I do want her to choose for herself; she must in fact choose for herself. I do not want to withhold my thoughts though if she respectfully asks for them. And I do not want to speak from a place of ignorance either. I know I need help and I am addressing it as quickly and as thoroughly as I can. I also know that this is her battle and her's alone. I am not trying to orchestrate or bolster anything. I don't know. Am I misreading what you are saying?
She asked me what I thought about her ideas. None of them were mine nor did I solicit them. However, as my wife, I think it is reasonable to expect that she will want my input on some things in life. I do want her to choose for herself; she must in fact choose for herself. I do not want to withhold my thoughts though if she respectfully asks for them. And I do not want to speak from a place of ignorance either. I know I need help and I am addressing it as quickly and as thoroughly as I can. I also know that this is her battle and her's alone. I am not trying to orchestrate or bolster anything. I don't know. Am I misreading what you are saying?
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
I am concerned that YOU risk being sucked into HER problems.
That is bad for both of you.
A whole bunch of (successful) Rehab is allowing the A the growing-up experiences of making their own decisions and consequences.
Many A's -- and especially those with Mental Illness components like [y]ours do not really want to do that. They will and do try to find ways for others to be grown-ups for them.
If we do it for them it leaves them crippled.
In my case, MIL panicked after her "baby" (Mrs. Hammer) came back from Rehab, and rushed in and totally screwed Mrs. Hammer with control and manipulation, much as she had most of Mrs. Hammer's life.
Mrs. Hammer did not work the Program, did not get a Good Local Sponsor, and has been stumbling along "Dry Drunk" ever since.
Just trying to say to Be Very Careful to not get into HER work for / with her.
A good route around that is Working the Friends/Family Alanon side of things FOR YOU.
That is bad for both of you.
A whole bunch of (successful) Rehab is allowing the A the growing-up experiences of making their own decisions and consequences.
Many A's -- and especially those with Mental Illness components like [y]ours do not really want to do that. They will and do try to find ways for others to be grown-ups for them.
If we do it for them it leaves them crippled.
In my case, MIL panicked after her "baby" (Mrs. Hammer) came back from Rehab, and rushed in and totally screwed Mrs. Hammer with control and manipulation, much as she had most of Mrs. Hammer's life.
Mrs. Hammer did not work the Program, did not get a Good Local Sponsor, and has been stumbling along "Dry Drunk" ever since.
Just trying to say to Be Very Careful to not get into HER work for / with her.
A good route around that is Working the Friends/Family Alanon side of things FOR YOU.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Well here is my feedback, most of if is completely her call but when it comes to
1) Will quitting her job affect the family finances considerably and will she lose her insurance which probably pays for 2?
2) Marital counseling is totally up to you. I really feel as a RA myself that she should focus on working her program and staying sober because if she relapses, there is truly no point in counseling.
6) Absolutely. Go for it!!! There are plenty of wonderful dogs (and cats) in shelters who are looking for a loving home.
Now enough about her, what are your personal goals and dreams? I'd love to hear from you and how you feel and what are your personal goals which would make you happy.
I don't want to be a kill joy but recovery rates for RA are abysmally small. She might have a 10% chance to make it tops and it is really up to her so please don't bank your future on that.
1) Will quitting her job affect the family finances considerably and will she lose her insurance which probably pays for 2?
2) Marital counseling is totally up to you. I really feel as a RA myself that she should focus on working her program and staying sober because if she relapses, there is truly no point in counseling.
6) Absolutely. Go for it!!! There are plenty of wonderful dogs (and cats) in shelters who are looking for a loving home.
Now enough about her, what are your personal goals and dreams? I'd love to hear from you and how you feel and what are your personal goals which would make you happy.
I don't want to be a kill joy but recovery rates for RA are abysmally small. She might have a 10% chance to make it tops and it is really up to her so please don't bank your future on that.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Miles from Nowhere
Posts: 396
If she's going to resign from her job, are you OK with being the breadwinner for both of you?
Assuming you have group insurance at your job, can you add her to your policy? And how much will it cost, if you can?
She's only been sober 3 weeks. If it were me, I'd be apprehensive about this.
Assuming you have group insurance at your job, can you add her to your policy? And how much will it cost, if you can?
She's only been sober 3 weeks. If it were me, I'd be apprehensive about this.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,413
I think that's an awful lot of free time that she will have to be "in charge" of structuring.
At least the job is a "given" and will keep her occupied for a set number of hours each day.
I personally would not be comfortable being handed the full "breadwinner" pressure since if she does relapse, you are suddenly on the line in terms of supporting her and it will be harder to step away.
I think if she wants to work towards these things gradually it would be better--
See how one thing goes and then add another.
If she is capable of actually putting herself on a daily writing schedule (that's a lot harder to do than you might think, by the way) that's great, but start slowly and see how it goes for at least six months or so.
People don't finish books for a very good reason--there is actually a great deal of stress and pressure when you are working on a long project like that so beginning as a "side" thing might be safer first.
A dog is a wonderful addition and maybe that could be something you do earlier as well as the therapy and time together.
What does you gut feeling tell you about this?
At least the job is a "given" and will keep her occupied for a set number of hours each day.
I personally would not be comfortable being handed the full "breadwinner" pressure since if she does relapse, you are suddenly on the line in terms of supporting her and it will be harder to step away.
I think if she wants to work towards these things gradually it would be better--
See how one thing goes and then add another.
If she is capable of actually putting herself on a daily writing schedule (that's a lot harder to do than you might think, by the way) that's great, but start slowly and see how it goes for at least six months or so.
People don't finish books for a very good reason--there is actually a great deal of stress and pressure when you are working on a long project like that so beginning as a "side" thing might be safer first.
A dog is a wonderful addition and maybe that could be something you do earlier as well as the therapy and time together.
What does you gut feeling tell you about this?
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
Sounds like a really bad idea to make changes like that so early in recovery. She needs structure and to be held accountable, things that a job provides. Not free floating and trying all kinds of new things.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Hammer, and everyone else here, thank you so much for your sage advice. Shortly after I made post 4, I headed out on my motorcycle to clear my head and reflect on what had been said in posts 2 and 3. The ride and time to reflect outside of my home environment was very helpful.
I have responded back to her email much along the lines of what Hammer said, but have not yet seen a reply. I believe she will respect my answer and not take offense to anything I said. I chose my words carefully and made sure that they were full of love. The rest is up to her now.
Carlotta, among my dreams are walking the Appalachian Trail when I retire, which God willing is within 5 years max, but which may be as soon as 2 years. I also want to take time to ride motorcycle around this country, maybe other countries as well. I am a bit of an adventurer in that regard, I suspect much like member "advbike" might be. He/she posted in this thread as well. Ultimately, I'd like to retire to someplace north where I can hunt, fish, and engage in outdoor activities to my heart's content. I do not plan on life sidelining these dreams. In fact, my RAW has always held similar dreams and it's one of the reasons I fell in love with her in the first place. Anyhow, thank you all again. Coming here has been an incredibly positive experience for me.
I have responded back to her email much along the lines of what Hammer said, but have not yet seen a reply. I believe she will respect my answer and not take offense to anything I said. I chose my words carefully and made sure that they were full of love. The rest is up to her now.
Carlotta, among my dreams are walking the Appalachian Trail when I retire, which God willing is within 5 years max, but which may be as soon as 2 years. I also want to take time to ride motorcycle around this country, maybe other countries as well. I am a bit of an adventurer in that regard, I suspect much like member "advbike" might be. He/she posted in this thread as well. Ultimately, I'd like to retire to someplace north where I can hunt, fish, and engage in outdoor activities to my heart's content. I do not plan on life sidelining these dreams. In fact, my RAW has always held similar dreams and it's one of the reasons I fell in love with her in the first place. Anyhow, thank you all again. Coming here has been an incredibly positive experience for me.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
Thank you for your response and for sharing your dreams HoneyBadger. The reason I asked is that many of us got so wrapped up in our A that we forgot who it was we were and what it was we wanted (aside from them to sober up and living happily ever after).
I know that was the case for me.
Well, you will definitely have to do #6 if you are to walk on trails and go hunting and don't worry about the motorcycle. We have a member on SR who takes his dog on rides all the time.
Wishing you all the best that recovery and dogs have to offer
I know that was the case for me.
Well, you will definitely have to do #6 if you are to walk on trails and go hunting and don't worry about the motorcycle. We have a member on SR who takes his dog on rides all the time.
Wishing you all the best that recovery and dogs have to offer
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 322
Please be careful about the dog and be sure you're both fully prepared for how big a responsibility that can be, and how trying it sometimes is when a new animal comes home. They need a LOT of attention, time, and training (depending on whether you get a puppy, rescue dog or an older dog that's already been there and done it). Either way, they're loyal and wonderful companions (I have 3 and rehabilitate Rottweilers that have behavior issues, so usually have a rescue/foster/trainee here along with my resident dogs) and deserve a stable and forever home. I'm not saying that you're home wouldn't be all that and more, but just be sure she's truly ready to make that big commitment to an animal and realize that if she relapses or destabilizes, you'll be the one who the responsibility falls squarely on.
I'm not trying to sway you away from the idea, and I don't want to sound at all preachy, but I hate walking the shelter rows and seeing so many dogs that didn't work out for one reason or another now sitting on death row. It's the stuff that animal lover's nightmares are made of.
I wish you and your RAW the best!
I'm not trying to sway you away from the idea, and I don't want to sound at all preachy, but I hate walking the shelter rows and seeing so many dogs that didn't work out for one reason or another now sitting on death row. It's the stuff that animal lover's nightmares are made of.
I wish you and your RAW the best!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Hey, I should mention that we are NOT getting the Big Happy -- at least as far as Mrs. Hammer and I go. So take my stuff with a LARGE grain of salt, too, okay?
Just giving what seemed to be the best info I could find back at your time, and like you, I was sweating both what may be sins of Commission and Omission. In the end -- especially if you follow the 12 Step plans, about the best you do is to get folks and God's best guidance and follow it as best you can.
We are all in this together, my friend.
jmho, of all the comments you have received -- I like Katchie's best. Way better than mine. Concerned -- but it is her journey.
btw. IF she gets the dog. Make sure it is one you like.
True story >>>
Girl in my local Alanon group. Found "her A" in Jail. He got out, they were doing good. He got a dog. He relapsed. He went back to Jail. She kept the dog. Turned out she loves dogs. She never knew. NOW -- she has become a professional Dog Trainer and is booked. Meanwhile -- her A is still in Jail. She does not worry too much about "her A," anymore.
Just giving what seemed to be the best info I could find back at your time, and like you, I was sweating both what may be sins of Commission and Omission. In the end -- especially if you follow the 12 Step plans, about the best you do is to get folks and God's best guidance and follow it as best you can.
We are all in this together, my friend.
jmho, of all the comments you have received -- I like Katchie's best. Way better than mine. Concerned -- but it is her journey.
btw. IF she gets the dog. Make sure it is one you like.
True story >>>
Girl in my local Alanon group. Found "her A" in Jail. He got out, they were doing good. He got a dog. He relapsed. He went back to Jail. She kept the dog. Turned out she loves dogs. She never knew. NOW -- she has become a professional Dog Trainer and is booked. Meanwhile -- her A is still in Jail. She does not worry too much about "her A," anymore.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mmmmmm
Posts: 3,178
Originally Posted by honeybadger 
My RAW has been sober for about 3 weeks. BTW, she is also bipolar. She would like to:
1. Resign from her job, which she has had for less than 3 months
Can you afford this? This is a couple decision in my book. Perhaps it would be good for her to work in recovery to save up for her other goals and stay focused? Mid she doesn't like that job, she can keep it while looking for something else...
2. Continue treatment with IOP, after which she would follow-up with individual and marital counseling
Sure. With her job she can cover all the copays.
3. Focus on her health with yoga, exercise, meditation, etc.
Sure.
4. Spend more time together when I am not at work
Sure, but she sounds like she wants to run off in a multitude of directions without focusin on her sobriety.
5. Volunteer a lot, and maybe even start a support group for women
This might be a better midterm goal. Something to focus on in the future after she has her own issues handled with aplomb, meds, therapy, etc.
6. Get a dog which may ultimately play a role in service
Again this is a couple decision.
7. Explore the possibility of writing children's books (she is a very good writer)
Sure. .
1. Wake up. Each day learn new skills to live sober and deal with my bipolar.
2. Go to bed grateful.
3. Repeat.
I'm so glad you do have goals!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 322
Originally Posted by Hammer
Girl in my local Alanon group. Found "her A" in Jail. He got out, they were doing good. He got a dog. He relapsed. He went back to Jail. She kept the dog. Turned out she loves dogs. She never knew. NOW -- she has become a professional Dog Trainer and is booked. Meanwhile -- her A is still in Jail. She does not worry too much about "her A," anymore.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 667
Originally Posted by honeybadger
As I look at things, I am all for 2, 3, 4, and even 5. 1, 6, and 7 are a little trickier for me. Her counselor told me that she needs to be busy a lot and, ideally, it would be awesome if she was essentially exhausted every night. If she quits her job with nothing else lined up, not only will she not be busy, but she won't have to be accountable to anyone during the day (outside of IOP), which seems like it's just begging for a relapse. A dog would likely keep her quite busy, but would it also add a potentially unnecessary complication to an already complex situation? Would it add pressure? And #7 is something I feel she is totally capable of doing. That said, if she were unsuccessful in that, would failure likely impact her self-esteem to the point where she might be more likely to relapse?
Tell you what. You don't need crystal balls here. What you just outlined above is all YOU need to see. YOU will be sucked into the results above and you have pretty well seen how it can affect you if it goes this way. Which I believe you are more right than wrong on.
Who wouldn't love to quit their jobs and write books, raise a dog and help people. We'd all love that...well some basic concept like that.
In REALITY, substance abusers have to learn how to function in the normal majority world like the rest of poor souls are expected to. Because they can't is how they go down the path of addiction in the first place.
You stay your course. You have it figured out IMHO.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,393
Why does she want to quit her job? Was it a problem or trigger that caused her problems? Or has she been coddled into being a victim that deserves only THE BEST and be served? Sorry, but I have to ask when it comes to women who just don't want to work.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
My XAH (bipolar) job problems were a big source of resentment to me. I don't think quitting the job to do yoga and write children's books cuts the mustard. If she wants to write she'll find time to do so in her spare time. That's what most writers do. Once you're a published author you can quit to write full time.
If you think you may have any feelings of resentment whatsoever if she's not working to help with finances, I suggest you not endorse #1.
If you think you may have any feelings of resentment whatsoever if she's not working to help with finances, I suggest you not endorse #1.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 23
Originally Posted by Refiner
Why does she want to quit her job? Was it a problem or trigger that caused her problems? Or has she been coddled into being a victim that deserves only THE BEST and be served? Sorry, but I have to ask when it comes to women who just don't want to work.
She has worked most if not all of her adult life. She is 42. I don't think she is afraid of work, but I wonder if it is an excuse to have free time to drink now that her secret is out with no accountability to anyone other than maybe me if I happen to catch it. I don't want to control her though, I don't want to get caught up in her problems, and I sure as heck have no control over the alcoholism. Same for the bipolar disorder for that matter.
After I told her the above, she told me that she was confused and getting mixed signals from me. She said that I had just the day before said that she could quit her job when she asked me if she could. Well I sure as hell did not think that it would be before she got out of treatment. It did not even occur to me that she would consider doing so within the first year. WTF?! Then she cited that I said money was not an issue in her getting better. That was said in the context of the fact that I have to private pay for her to be in inpatient rehab. It was not said as a means to allow her to forget her responsibilities. Another WTF?
She says that she does not want to work because she hates her new job. She finds it unrewarding and that it is a "trigger" for her. When she asked me what the priority really is, I told her that her recovery is #1. Again, she took that to mean that if her recovery is to be #1, then she needs to quit the job that's a trigger to give her the best chance. She says that she can go and get a job at Starbuck's or something if that is really what's needed. I am not sure I even believe that though.
Are we having fun yet?
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
