LiveInPeace

Hi,

I'm looking for replies from those who have done step 4 exactly as it is written in the big book.

I am getting stuck on understanding my turnarounds, especially the self-seeking. I can't often see how I acted out. I thought maybe others could help this click.

For example, if I had a boss who was extremely abusive and unethical, I can't think of how I acted out, other than trying to make him happy (does that even count?) and complaining about his behavior behind his back.

I am also not understanding the dishonesty piece.

I'm finding my turnarounds are too wordy. I am struggling getting the clarity of it all.

Thanks in advance. Hoping 2015 will be the year I finally get unblocked from God.

sugarbear1

I could list those I resented and why I resented them. I learned my part while discussing this with my sponsor. On my own, I could not see my part. I could identify my fears, I could write all but my part.

Step 5 was a lengthy discussion.

Gottalife

Turn around is not an expression I am familiar with. As I look back I see my fourth, taken with the help of my sponsor, was more like the "Back to Basics" model in use in the forties.

It involved a lot of explanation and discussion with my sponsor but at the end of four hours we had a simple but, as it turns out, adequate inventory which was surprisingly accurate. It achieved the desired outcomes expressed in the big book, I.e causes and conditions, putting my finger on my grosser handicaps, swallowing some large chunks of truth about my self. The fifth I took the next day.

I don't suppose there is any right or wrong way to tackle the fourth, but it did not seem to be a lengthy business in the early days. My take on that is that in the process of taking our fourth we are actually learning a principle which we will go on to practice regularly in every aspect of our lives. We have to start somewhere, and anything we miss we will be brought back to. Thee principle of step four is also found in steps 10 and 11 as part of our new way of life and we need to be living that new way of life as soon as possible. I don't think it is productive to get too bogged down on step four.

LiveInPeace

Thanks sugarbear. Well at least now I don't feel "terminally unique" in that I thought I was the only one struggling to see my part. I could identify my fears, too.

I thought I saw my part, but it came out more as "feelings" than as "acting out" or "actions". I really want to get this.

So did you write your part (the turnarounds) during your 4th step, or as part of your 5th step? Interesting. Was it sort of done as your sponsor asking you questions to make you think?

LiveInPeace

"Turnarounds" are in the book book, when "we look at things from an entirely different angle." I believe the big book says "where were we selfish, self-seeking, dishonest, and frightened." but I don't have the book in front of me so it may not be an exact quote. Selfish is "I wanted....", Dishonest is "the lie I told myself..." or "the lie I told others...", Self seeking is "I acted out by...." (when I didn't get my way) and Frightened is "Fear of....".

The turnarounds are the most important part of the inventory because we see our reaction to life. We put aside what others had done to us (column 2).

I'm curious how does the "Back to Basics" model help one see his or her role in the resentment?

Was there something where you had a light bulb moment, where it hit you how you were dishonest and self-seeking? That's where I'm struggling. I want to see the truth about myself; I just am struggling to understand what I am supposed to be looking for. The words I use don't seem to be correct. They're not exactly acting out behaviors. I was hoping to find a list of acting-out behaviors so I could look at them and see which ones hit me as, "Oh yeah! That's what I did."


I do apologize if I came across in my original post as if I was saying this was the right way, and I only wanted to hear that experience. It's just that the group I go to--they are all very spiritually well people, and so I'd like to try to keep my understanding clear on others who do it their way. It's a healthy group, and I am so lucky to have found them. So I want to keep doing things their way, but I am struggling in the doing/comprehending part. My group has us read 84-88 every day--steps 10 and 11--and I can sometimes see where I act wrong now, but I still feel like I am missing the big picture, which would help me see how I acted in my past so I can avoid it in my future.

sugarbear1

on a phone me thumb typing, will return tomorrow....

sg1970

Hi Live in peace,

I recently did 4 and 5. Do you have a sponsor? I used worksheets and instructions from the web. They are Big Book method and can be found if you search Dallas B fourth step. They made is very easy to see patterns because of the columns they had. Sometimes my part was extremely obvious but sometimes I had to look deep when I was doing my step 5. Some of mine were not actions but feelings or motives. An example is I resented a guy who boxed my ears and ruptured my eardrum when I was a kid. A legit resentment right? I could not for the life of me see my part in that. What I discovered was the real resentment was the fact that he embarrassed me in front of the whole class when he did it. My part was I cared too much what other people thought of me and wanted everyone to like me. The motive of seeking approval from others was a pattern that repeated itself throughout my step 4 and throughout my life. Hope that makes sense.

If your part is not obvious I would just figure it out when I did my step five.

WMJ1012

Hello Liveinpeace

Because we thought the same way for so long, and because writing these are so different than anything we have ever done or thought like, it takes practice. You will get better at them as you go along. I stared at mine for weeks in discouragement at first. I felt there must be some formula to this.

What helped me was I finally heard a woman say in a meeting that when she wrote her "selfishness", she wrote what she wanted and why.

When I heard that, I knew that was what I was missing. I ran home and write out 2 or 3 resentments and voila! Once I saw the "and why" part, that led me to my dishonesty.

I asked my sponsor if it was ok for me to do this and she said "if it helps you, sure."

Others may have other experiences with the writing. That was my experience.
Also, I turned off all electronics, phone, etc and was in solitude with God and said the third step prayer. This will work for you if you show Him willingness.

One last thing. Each week when your sponsor checks your writing she may ask you questions about each resentment to help you get down to the truth. Then she will probably give you new "gems" of wisdom, things you've never heard said like that before, that will be added to your "dishonesties". That should also be helpful in your mastering of resentment.

I can see you are willing and earnest and that is beautiful!
Best
WMJ

Fly N Buy

Not familiar with turnaround. Did a search of Big Book and don't find it.
Regardless - think of three inventories
Resentments - fear - sex conduct

You may in fact have resentments that ultimately you caused nothing. However, it may still hurt your pride. With boss perhaps financial security.

We learn how to identify the underlying causation of why we were resentful. Resentments are the number one killer....

The back to basics form is the easiest I have found. It's pretty straight forward.
Our shortcomings filter down to all or some of the 7 deadly sins.
Once identified we learn how to deal with them without pouring booze down our throats!

It's your inventory - do it your way
The way we do a 4th step is to do one.


AA Back to Basics - It's all about saving lives!

Good for you on doing the work!!

Tommyh

turnarounds....a expression I am famlier with and I do have lots of experience writing mine out

at first it took a few trys to get a grip on it,so to speak.
the more I did,the easier it got and the more sense it made,and the shorter my answer.
I found my old inventory and found one about a old boss I had who was on my resentment list and I`ll run thru it here,changing his name

angry at (column 1)
my old boss Doc

why(cause)(column 2)
his remarks in a meeting directed at me

affects (column 3)
security,ambitions,personel relations,self esteem (fear)

then I sat and considered it carefully as the big book says
I started to see things
I then sincerely prayed the sicks mans prayer for Doc,praying for Doc by name.

I went to the turnarounds(here are the questions my big book step study sponsor gave me)

where was I

selfish?
what did I want?
I wanted to go scott free for breaking company rules

dishonest
what was the lie I told myself?
Doc is a jerk,I don`t derserve this,I"m not wrong

what would I not get or receive?
recogination from others and him

I thought....
he was wrong and picking on me,I`m innocent

I told myself
I would get even with him somehow

I pretended
to be a innocent victim and that it didn`t bother me


self seeking

what did I do to get what I wanted?(my actions based on my selfish motives)
gossiped about Doc behind his back,lied to myself and others about me being in the wrong

how did I manipulate?
by lying and gossiping about Doc and continue to break company rules

frightened

what was I afraid of?
scared of what the others would think of me


what might I lose or not get?
my job,their friendship and respect,

what was the fear?(name it by name)
fear of not being good enough and losing my job


this was one of my turnarounds I did when I started writing,and I did the best I could.I soon was able to see how dishonest and fearful I was.
That fear was really a deep motivating factor in my life,scared of what others thought about me so I put up a big front......I played the actor...I lived the double life,one outside and another inside.
Doc was doing his job,I wasn`t and he called me on it.
You may want to do a few and consult your bbss sponsor & let her look at them and go from there

WMJ1012

As Tommy outlined, the turnarounds can be written using columns (his were good and thorough). Some people write down 1 page, others write the resentment in one notebook and "My Part" (the turnaround) in another notebook.

I write down one page like this (although the format can differ with different people, the content is basically the same):

I'm resentful at Susan (boss) because she put me on warning for missing work.

Affects my: security (fear), self-esteem (fear), personal relationships, pride

Selfish:
I wanted her to look the other way while I played hookey so I could drink every Thursday and Sunday night in peace. (Notice I added "why" which leads me to the dishonesty...)

Dishonest:
The lie I tell myself is I can behave like this without consequences
Missed many more days of work than I realized
Denied being absent many Fridays and Mondays

Self-seeking:
People-pleased her, overly-kind/unkind, argued, convinced myself I was right, blamed her, judged her, gossiped about her, rounded up the troops

Fear:
Of authority figures
Of being controlled
Of being shamed
Of losing my job
Of facing life without a drink

sugarbear1

I will let this one be as it is.

I just didn't complicate this step and followed my sponsor's guidance as it is written in the big book.

Step 5 was a turning point for me followed by 6 & 7 immediately afterwards, again, more revealed.....

Tommyh

doing step 4 this way is not to complicate it but to seek and find the truth and it provides more emotional sobriety than any other 4th step method I have ever came across.

Over simplification leaves too much out for me and does not show the truth,just a tiny part of it
depth and weight are Dr Silkworths words,and I have found that is true for me

Gottalife

Your post didn't come across as if you were saying this is the right way. I made that comment because I tackled my fourth in a different way and it has proved to be just as effective. Different people have found different paths through this step, each as good as the other as far as the results are concerned.

What you call turn arounds, we call seeing our part. It is just a difference in popular terminology. Thanks for the explanation.

My problem with step four was the fact that I lacked the intellectual brain power to do it on my own. Having been more or less insanely drunk for most of the time from age 15 to 22, I had lost much in the way of ability to think, reason or even understand the basic ideas in step four. I didn't understand why I had to do it, or what the effect would be. I just knew it had to be done and I needed help with that.

In the back to basics model,, the sponsor does the writing of the inventory. Every issue is discussed at depth until the newcomer has a good understanding of how this issue applies to them and how harmful it has been. My fourth wasn't quite like that in that I did the writing, but my sponsor was there to help me understand exactly what I was doing. In effect he lent me his reasoning power to work my way through causes and conditions.

I guess Iwould say if the group you are working with has a successful method with which you a comfortable and you can get the support with it, then stick with that. Suggestion we might give on this site might just make matters more difficult.

On the other hand if you want a different approach, you could try a back to basics beginners meeting if there is one in your area.

Perfection is not the goal in the fourth step. We are in fact learning a set of principles by which we can live a sober life. We are allowed to make mistakes (how will we learn otherwise?) and we continue practicing these principles (including regular inventory) through out our lives. There is no requirement to get it right first time. We are not saints... We are willing to grow along spiritual lines...

Your last sentence quoted above talks about an issue that is beyond the scope of step four. Step four is a good honest look at ourselves. I came to understand that I am my own worst enemy.

The business of fixing that, or removing those defects (changing ourbehaviour) is something we ask God to do for us in steps six and seven. How and when he does it is up to Him. It's a risky business going trying to fix our own defects. As someone much wiser than me said "you will end up going after the wrong one, and the result will be an even more deeply concealed and disguised defect" Gods method seems to involve (mostly) failure after failure until the defect becomes redundant and pointless, and falls away.

In my experience some defects were removed without any drama, some I tried to practice and they were removed against my will, and I did do the thing of trying to fix what I thought needed fixing, went after the wrong thing, and ended up learning some painful lessons. When I say defects removed, I really mean my personality has been restored to an even keel. I experience emotions, good and bad, in about the same way as I would imagine an ordinary human being would. Not the extremes of the past.

WMJ1012

Gotta life
I forgot that in Back to Basics the sponsor does the writing. LOL! I'm glad that wasn't your experience. I did attend one of those meetings once an I seem to remember there were clumps of the BB taken out if the BB and put into a binder along with one person's opinion of what it meant. I had just been through the BB and it seemed another half-measure, maybe for folks who didn't need more at the time.

This could perhaps work for some people in some way depending on where they are in recovery but for alcoholics who've truly lost their self-sufficiency, I couldn't shortcut anything.

When we can't arrange life to be ok anymore at all, and we're sitting there depressed and wanting to die, or we've tried other methods and they've failed us, we find trusting the BB exactly as written works where nothing else did.

The white part of the page is much different in the work I do meaning the information passed down from sponsors over decades has grown to be deep and true and is not stuff that our minds can come up with no matter how smart we are.

These are the "gems" of wisdom I spoke of.

It's not written down anywhere either, except in people's fourth steps

LiveInPeace

Thank you for sharing your example about what the guy did to you. A legit resentment (I have similar) but it's how we reacted to them, which I struggled to see. I didn't think about caring what other people thought. That makes a lot of sense. Seeking approval from others--yes I did that too. Maybe I was using the wrong words.

I think I can leave it blank if the self-seeking or lie I told myself wasn't obvious. I think I will do that and hope it'll come to me during my 5th step.

Tommyh

liveinpeace,it is ok to leave one or two blank if you need too.I did.
It`s a search for the truth,and not a test.
I`m sure you will do fine if you keep on the road you are on.

LiveInPeace

Well see that's the problem...I've spent 2 years writing (with taking weeks/months of not writing in between, due to fear instead of faith) and I seemed to be writing not exactly how I should have been. I think, however, with my tweaking my writing now, I may get it. I think maybe I am just slower at getting it. I think I needed to write the way I did, so that I could get to this place I am now. I hope I am explaining that right, because it just hit me.

But I am still stuck in fear that I'm going to get it like I should get it. Yes I am also looking for that "formula". I am looking for the answer of why everyone else seems to get it right away, and I haven't. It's probably that my role is I was still too stuck in my head doing the writing. I was way too stuck in the feelings regarding what everyone had done to me. My victim mode I think just took a long time to be crushed.

That's interesting. The why part--it sort of shows not only I want, I want I want....but our screwed up thinking for "why". It comes down to wanting to get our way. I'm seeing that but it is strange, especially when it comes to someone who hurt you. It's odd to think that not wanting someone to hurt you is selfish, but I get it, because of the "I want". My sponsor helped me see the other day that it's not about me judging the person, or saying how they should have behaved, it's about taking my own inventory and not the other person's. It reminds me of the Serenity Prayer.

Yes good advice for all to read. :-) I take a few deep breaths, say the third step prayer and ask God to please help me with my writing. My sponsor said the other day to also ask God for help to be honest in my writing and see the truth. I like that too because fear sometimes holds me back, or my ego gets very stuck in the anger I have pent up about those who hurt me. I have to stay focused that this is not what it's about. I've been in column two my entire life, and it just kept me sick. Side note--I do find sometimes having "new age" type music calmed me and helped me focus while writing vs being a distraction.

I wish I had done this 2 years ago. I am really bad about asking for help. I don't ask; I wait for it to be offered. I would bring my notebooks with me thinking she'd want to check my work, but she rarely did. Perhaps she was waiting for ME to ask her to check my work. I don't know. But I have to just look at my part in that. She did give me numerous gems of wisdom and has gone above and beyond sharing her wisdom. I think it's my fault that I didn't focus our conversations on my actual *writing*. She helped me each time I had epiphanies, though, which was wonderful. I'm guessing she thought that would've helped with my writing.

Thank you. :-) That is greatly appreciated. It's frustrating because I have been trying so hard, but I think I was trying hard but the wrong way.

LiveInPeace

Thanks for your encouragement and for sharing your experience. :-) I do know what works for one may not work for another, I wish I had written that in my opening post. I am happy you found an approach that has helped you. It is interesting to hear the different approaches. I am a believer in the big book so as long as that is used, I think that is great. Not that my opinion matters here, since that's not the point of my post. :-)

Regarding the word "turnaround" not being in the big book, here is my very lay person's response. I am not a big book step sponsor yet, these are just my thoughts: Page 66, second to last paragraph states:

"We *turned* back to the list, for it held the key to the future. We were prepared to look at it from an entirely different angle".

The entirely different angle is that we stop looking at what the other person did, and start looking at how we reacted to what the other person did. I actually prefer the word "turnaround", because to me, "my role" or "my part" meant I was at fault for how the person treated me. I got it confused.

Page 67 they describe what the "turnarounds" are. "Referring to our list again. Putting out of our minds the wrongs others had done (column 2), we resolutely looked for our own mistakes. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, self-seeking, and frightened...." up to the beginning of page 68, ending at the 2nd line.

I never understood that this was the most important part of inventory. I see now that writing columns 1, 2, and 3 was just to prepare me for the turnarounds. And that's what Bill meant by, "The inventory was ours."

We also just do one 4th step. I should've explained I'm not doing a second 4th step; I'm sort of tweaking/fixing what I did wrong. I'm keeping all the people and resentments the same. I was just struggling with writing my part, because perhaps I thought I saw it but really didn't. I'm fixing it while sort of doing my 5th step. It is hard to explain. I think I am a special case or something, lol. There's no way if I read my 5th step with just reading it out loud as it is, would I have gotten it. I would've gotten through all the steps and not gotten well.

We also did 3 inventories. In fact, I absolutely flew through my final two and surprised a lot of people. It just clicked, can't explain why it didn't with my resentment inventory.

LiveInPeace

Thank you for such a thorough reply, Tommyh. I also appreciated your encouraging comment you left. I couldn't reply back because I don't have enough posts to be allowed to.


Thanks for sharing an example. So you did your turnaround immediately after writing your resentment? Hmm. I didn't do the part where you think about it carefully. Maybe that's what I am missing--when I went back to reread my column 2, to write the turnaround, I think I was still way too much in my head in anger over what I had written in column 2.

Same hear regarding the fear. It's hard to admit just how much I allowed fear to consume my life. The dishonesty too--lies I told myself were eye-opening and not from my higher power. The self seeking is just a struggle. The way you did your turnarounds were interesting--more detailed.

Perhaps I just need to look deeper into my part.

I feel like I was a train that was on the right track early on, but got derailed because of my thinking/feelings vs understanding what "fact finding, fact facing mission" really means.