Why reasoing sometimes just doesn't work
voices ca**y
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,359
Why reasoing sometimes just doesn't work
One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back
BBC - Future - How to debunk falsehoods
This reminds me of my mom and all the people I grew up with.
BBC - Future - How to debunk falsehoods
This reminds me of my mom and all the people I grew up with.
voices ca**y
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,359
Originally Posted by MIRecovery 
Reminds me of my relationship with alcohol
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
I could write many paragraphs about this fascinating topic - but I won't. (NO ONE wants to read that!) Just one anecdote I find particularly salient.
I knew I was an alcoholic as early as 1990, and I sought help in the only way I knew about. I met many good folks and learned many good things, but after about 60 days I wasn't ready (as they like to say) and I went back out.
Wash, rinse, repeat for 23 more years. Every year getting worse than the one before. Every re-entry to the only program I knew about was with a silent prayer that I was finally ready. Their belief was my reality. I knew no other way.
Fresh off a 3-day bender (and an ultimatum from my very patient wife) I landed here at SR 2 years ago where I was presented with competing hypotheses on recovery from Weasel1966, freshstart57, GerandTwine, Soberlicious, and others.
The freedom has been exhilarating.
I knew I was an alcoholic as early as 1990, and I sought help in the only way I knew about. I met many good folks and learned many good things, but after about 60 days I wasn't ready (as they like to say) and I went back out.
Wash, rinse, repeat for 23 more years. Every year getting worse than the one before. Every re-entry to the only program I knew about was with a silent prayer that I was finally ready. Their belief was my reality. I knew no other way.
Fresh off a 3-day bender (and an ultimatum from my very patient wife) I landed here at SR 2 years ago where I was presented with competing hypotheses on recovery from Weasel1966, freshstart57, GerandTwine, Soberlicious, and others.
The freedom has been exhilarating.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
2nd That!
BAM!!! This, for me as well...
'... I landed here at SR 'x' years ago where I was presented with competing hypotheses on recovery from Weasel1966, freshstart57, GerandTwine, Soberlicious, and others.
The freedom has been exhilarating.'
By day-of-the-Week, I'm celebrating 1 year Sober tomorrow. By digital Day on a Calendar, 10 January is this Saturday. Close enough... I don't plan to make any mention of it because this part of this very helpful Forum is the only place that feels like Intellectual 'Home'. So, I'll quietly 'bask' in success here amongst Friends who know what Self-Determined Freedom feels like.
Re: the OP Topic... The first thing I thought of, having had to manage the Financial Affairs of my Parents and my 'Out-Laws', was these Jackals who pull Pyramid Scams on Old Folks. Promise them all sorts of amazing Interest on their precious Life Savings while bleeding them dry right into Poverty. Cognitive Dissonance keeps most of us from believing we've been scammed by well-dressed Hosers, and the Money just keeps evaporating. We didn't have this happen to us, but I sho heard of it in the Nursing Homes/Assisted Living Facilities we used.
'... I landed here at SR 'x' years ago where I was presented with competing hypotheses on recovery from Weasel1966, freshstart57, GerandTwine, Soberlicious, and others.
The freedom has been exhilarating.'
By day-of-the-Week, I'm celebrating 1 year Sober tomorrow. By digital Day on a Calendar, 10 January is this Saturday. Close enough... I don't plan to make any mention of it because this part of this very helpful Forum is the only place that feels like Intellectual 'Home'. So, I'll quietly 'bask' in success here amongst Friends who know what Self-Determined Freedom feels like.
Re: the OP Topic... The first thing I thought of, having had to manage the Financial Affairs of my Parents and my 'Out-Laws', was these Jackals who pull Pyramid Scams on Old Folks. Promise them all sorts of amazing Interest on their precious Life Savings while bleeding them dry right into Poverty. Cognitive Dissonance keeps most of us from believing we've been scammed by well-dressed Hosers, and the Money just keeps evaporating. We didn't have this happen to us, but I sho heard of it in the Nursing Homes/Assisted Living Facilities we used.
Better when never is never
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Wisconsin near Twin Cities
Posts: 1,745
Originally Posted by Nonsensical
Wash, rinse, repeat for 23 more years. Every year getting worse than the one before. Every re-entry to the only program I knew about was with a silent prayer that I was finally ready. Their belief was my reality. I knew no other way.
...
The freedom has been exhilarating.
...
The freedom has been exhilarating.
voices ca**y
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: St. Paul Minnesota
Posts: 4,359
WootWoot MesaMan!
The day I quit was just the realization of something I already knew on some level. Despite evidence I believed that my drinking problem wasn't that bad. It's true, had anyone confronted me I would have dug in my heels all the more. I have read that some people spontaneously remit from things like alcohol abuse and smoking. I personally know 3 people who did that with smoking. One day they just decided it was stupid and quit right there. That is what I think happened to me but first I had to see the situation for what is was not what I thought it should be.
Then come to find out I was hanging onto cult indoctrination from my upbringing. I was using some of it to define me and my worldview. I had neglected to turn and face what was done to me opting once again for it's not that bad. Plus they put up walls in my mind that made me afraid to question.
If I take anything from that article it would be the folly of being sure. My viewpoints should change over time or else I'm just not paying attention.
I realize now I have a long way to go.
The day I quit was just the realization of something I already knew on some level. Despite evidence I believed that my drinking problem wasn't that bad. It's true, had anyone confronted me I would have dug in my heels all the more. I have read that some people spontaneously remit from things like alcohol abuse and smoking. I personally know 3 people who did that with smoking. One day they just decided it was stupid and quit right there. That is what I think happened to me but first I had to see the situation for what is was not what I thought it should be.
Then come to find out I was hanging onto cult indoctrination from my upbringing. I was using some of it to define me and my worldview. I had neglected to turn and face what was done to me opting once again for it's not that bad. Plus they put up walls in my mind that made me afraid to question.
If I take anything from that article it would be the folly of being sure. My viewpoints should change over time or else I'm just not paying attention.
I realize now I have a long way to go.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
I try and look back and find the reason why the day I logged in here with what seemed like the same determination to quit drinking as I had hundreds of days prior to that one. What i have come to understand was that determination was not coupled with the idea that it was possible to "just do it". I was bamboozled, though I never thought that 'recovery ism' or needing to become a 'recoveryist' was the answer, I had bought into the idea that the disease needed curing and if I wasn't on board with a program , the solution would elude me. And then ,bam, SR and the ideas of self empowerment and AVRT and the bamboozle was over and so too the drinking. Way to go Me! And indescribable amounts of appreciation for those that pointed me in the right direction! Everyone of those Badasses!!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: UK
Posts: 508
It's like a backwards journey from the truth, yet each of us has our own truth about how we see the world and its obvious when I think of it but because of my beliefs (wrong or right) plausible, easier, long-held way of thinking until I have successfully replaced that 'truth' (worldview) with a more suited to me now I see the light type of thing I will continue to have messed up thinking.
Sorry none of that made sense, I'm so confused.
Still on my journey, been 15 months on the wagon, longest ever stint, bit hard at the moment
Interesting stuff 😃
Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself
Sorry none of that made sense, I'm so confused.
Still on my journey, been 15 months on the wagon, longest ever stint, bit hard at the moment
Interesting stuff 😃
Driving my wagon of hope through beautiful views on my road to myself
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Washington, MO
Posts: 2,306
I concur! The recent comparative on the boards was interesting as most everyone sharing of AVRT have had experience with other methods. The "click" we all heard is a result of having covered all that ground prior and found it a bit empty. It filled the gaps for me. I would guess those who found RR first would not be posting on boards at all. Congrats on addressing the bias MM before the thread did get shut down. Oh, and thanks for getting it shut down. Thanks for all y'all in this section. Keep up the good work. Soon AV will be a household acronym and the Beast could be a non-action-figure?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
Homies
I put up a some thoughts over in the Newcomers Section as part of a very kind Thread.
Part of Recovery, as I experience it, is to re-Tool and keep active the ole formerly-Sotted Brain. This Secular Section does just that, and in a Big Way. From the Linked Articles to the many Insights to the more-Esoteric POVs that I try to keep up with, this Section is the proverbial 'Gym' to my Brain. It gets a Workout here daily.
For that, I really do thank you all! Home is where the [Sober] Heart is, eh?
'Tis exciting to have a whole new Year of discovery ahead of us!
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Part of Recovery, as I experience it, is to re-Tool and keep active the ole formerly-Sotted Brain. This Secular Section does just that, and in a Big Way. From the Linked Articles to the many Insights to the more-Esoteric POVs that I try to keep up with, this Section is the proverbial 'Gym' to my Brain. It gets a Workout here daily.
For that, I really do thank you all! Home is where the [Sober] Heart is, eh?
'Tis exciting to have a whole new Year of discovery ahead of us!
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