O/T??? The pedestal person
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O/T??? The pedestal person
I've been thinking a lot about this recently, guess probably since I spoke to my mom and sis on the same day and they both were telling me how much my ex adored me. It made me sick to hear this, but they were right.
When I met my ex many decades ago, he put me on a pedestal. He told me that this was the happiest he ever was in his life. He adored me. I was so thrilled with this, he treated me like a queen.
Thing is, sh!t happens in life. I was on the pedestal, I was the one who made him happy, but, I later found out that when sh!t did happen, I was the one who was blamed for that. He only looked to me for his happiness, and when things happened, which things do happen, he looked to me to blame me because he should be happy, after all he was with the one that made him happy, so what did I do wrong? That was his thinking.
He didn't like it when people, especially me, would be upset with him. I was only there so he could adore me. I wasn't supposed to have a voice or an opinion or feelings, I was only supposed to make him happy.
I did see this throughout my marriage. I don't know if I wrote it in a way that makes sense though.
It was like if he was happy then it was tied to me, If he was upset he tied that mood to me also, if he was angry, again he tied that mood to me also. Anything and everything, and every mood that he had, he tied it to me, and it had to be my fault, because I was his pedestal person.
Don't ever want to be that pedestal person again.
amy
PS --- Sorry if this didn't make sense, I just had to get it out of me. Thanks for listening
When I met my ex many decades ago, he put me on a pedestal. He told me that this was the happiest he ever was in his life. He adored me. I was so thrilled with this, he treated me like a queen.
Thing is, sh!t happens in life. I was on the pedestal, I was the one who made him happy, but, I later found out that when sh!t did happen, I was the one who was blamed for that. He only looked to me for his happiness, and when things happened, which things do happen, he looked to me to blame me because he should be happy, after all he was with the one that made him happy, so what did I do wrong? That was his thinking.
He didn't like it when people, especially me, would be upset with him. I was only there so he could adore me. I wasn't supposed to have a voice or an opinion or feelings, I was only supposed to make him happy.
I did see this throughout my marriage. I don't know if I wrote it in a way that makes sense though.
It was like if he was happy then it was tied to me, If he was upset he tied that mood to me also, if he was angry, again he tied that mood to me also. Anything and everything, and every mood that he had, he tied it to me, and it had to be my fault, because I was his pedestal person.
Don't ever want to be that pedestal person again.
amy
PS --- Sorry if this didn't make sense, I just had to get it out of me. Thanks for listening
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Hi Amy- your posts always make sense to me! I think this situation ruins relationships no matter who is on the pedestal.
I find in a weird way that my AH was the one put on a pedestal by his mom when he was growing up. So, when there was conflict between us he just could never accept when he was wrong. And he would be so ANGRY at not being #1.
The pedestal thing puts a LOT of pressure to be perfect- and it doesn't matter who is up there.
I find in a weird way that my AH was the one put on a pedestal by his mom when he was growing up. So, when there was conflict between us he just could never accept when he was wrong. And he would be so ANGRY at not being #1.
The pedestal thing puts a LOT of pressure to be perfect- and it doesn't matter who is up there.
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My AM was the pedestal person from birth, thanks to her father (also an A). As she got older and the rest of the world didn't declare her their queen... well, I think most of the old-timers here know how that has turned out. I've been there myself as the PP, without really realizing it until I got into recovery.
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It makes perfect sense, Amy. I've thought about it differently -- maybe because I was knocked off that pedestal pretty quickly -- I've thought about it as being furniture. My ex didn't really want a wife (or, for that matter, children) -- he wanted furniture. If he put it in one place, that's where he wanted it to stay. And exactly like you said,
I wasn't supposed to have a voice or an opinion or feelings, I was only supposed to make him happy.
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Amy WOW!!! Another piece of the puzzle. Thanks!
My ex used to tell me that "the sun rises and sets on you."
Now we are in the same place you describe. I am sorry you had to learn that by living it.
Towards the end, I was saying to myself that as long as I "drank up, shut up and put out" everything was just fine.
Thanks again. You have given me stuff to think about all day!
My ex used to tell me that "the sun rises and sets on you."
Now we are in the same place you describe. I am sorry you had to learn that by living it.
Towards the end, I was saying to myself that as long as I "drank up, shut up and put out" everything was just fine.
Thanks again. You have given me stuff to think about all day!
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Join Date: Dec 2014
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Originally Posted by Flavia2 
Hi Amy- your posts always make sense to me! I think this situation ruins relationships no matter who is on the pedestal. I find in a weird way that my AH was the one put on a pedestal by his mom when he was growing up. So, when there was conflict between us he just could never accept when he was wrong. And he would be so ANGRY at not being #1. The pedestal thing puts a LOT of pressure to be perfect- and it doesn't matter who is up there.
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Originally Posted by lillamy
It makes perfect sense, Amy. I've thought about it differently -- maybe because I was knocked off that pedestal pretty quickly -- I've thought about it as being furniture. My ex didn't really want a wife (or, for that matter, children) -- he wanted furniture. If he put it in one place, that's where he wanted it to stay. And exactly like you said,
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Hi Amy..
The pedestal person doesn't talk back. Is perfect in every way, is infallible. Once you begin to show your humanness, imperfections, anger.. You are no longer the pedestal person.
You are the enemy.
When I read your posts I sense a lot of the traits of borderline personality disorder in your ex.
It's an attachment / chatacterlogical disorder, there's really nothing there in that person, no sense of self. The trick us into thinking they have a self because they are mirroring us. That's how they pull us in, one because we've felt we've met our soulmate and secondly because of the hyper-attention they give us. (Which of course is not love).
We fell in love with the mirrored version of ourselves. It's a lie, and a sham that cannot be held up in place forever. When it falls, and we see the raging soulless creature in front of us, it is the deepest sense of betrayal.. To know we've been used.
The pedestal person doesn't talk back. Is perfect in every way, is infallible. Once you begin to show your humanness, imperfections, anger.. You are no longer the pedestal person.
You are the enemy.
When I read your posts I sense a lot of the traits of borderline personality disorder in your ex.
It's an attachment / chatacterlogical disorder, there's really nothing there in that person, no sense of self. The trick us into thinking they have a self because they are mirroring us. That's how they pull us in, one because we've felt we've met our soulmate and secondly because of the hyper-attention they give us. (Which of course is not love).
We fell in love with the mirrored version of ourselves. It's a lie, and a sham that cannot be held up in place forever. When it falls, and we see the raging soulless creature in front of us, it is the deepest sense of betrayal.. To know we've been used.
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I think the one thing that has helped me heal from being with abusive ex is self respect.
It's less about understanding the psychopath and more about what it was in me that called to people of his ilk.
My empathy. My caring nature. My capacity to forgive, and my innocent, trusting nature. All wonderful qualities.. But
That innocence is gone, and in it's place a darkness that I wish I didn't know existed. But it does, I've seen it. I have boundaries in place to make sure it doesn't happen to me again. I also Have spirituality enough to know and to feel, and to heal. Ex does not have that, will never have that, and will continue the same patterns of use and abuse.
We can overcome what has happened to us, and be proud that we survived. We are survivors.
It's less about understanding the psychopath and more about what it was in me that called to people of his ilk.
My empathy. My caring nature. My capacity to forgive, and my innocent, trusting nature. All wonderful qualities.. But
That innocence is gone, and in it's place a darkness that I wish I didn't know existed. But it does, I've seen it. I have boundaries in place to make sure it doesn't happen to me again. I also Have spirituality enough to know and to feel, and to heal. Ex does not have that, will never have that, and will continue the same patterns of use and abuse.
We can overcome what has happened to us, and be proud that we survived. We are survivors.
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[QUOTE=love4menotu;5102866]Hi Amy..
The pedestal person doesn't talk back. Is perfect in every way, is infallible. Once you begin to show your humanness, imperfections, anger.. You are no longer the pedestal person.
You are the enemy.
When I read your posts I sense a lot of the traits of borderline personality disorder in your ex.
/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------
Thank you for this. The pedestal person is not allowed to talk back. Many times I felt like I was in a straightjacket with duct tape on my mouth. It was like if I disagreed, he didn't see or hear me at all. It was like I didn't exist to him at all. And yes, I was the enemy. He even told me so. He either idealized me or devalued me. It depended on his mood of the day, or the hour, or the minute.
I'm not even going to say he had traits of bpd. I think even without a professional diagnosis, I will say full blown high functioning bpd. This to me is even worse then low functioning bpd, they can't hold a job, and a lot of times are in jail. My ex could hold it together long enough, until we were alone. Then that other person came out.
I'm going to be really honest here. I have been out of my situation for over 4 years, but some of the things that I read here remind me so much of my marriage, and that is scary. I really don't buy into wet brain, or dry drunk too much. I can't give an alcoholic that excuse. I am an RA. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. There might be a reason, but there is no excuse.
I read the threads here with people asking "what did I do wrong", and "can you listen to this conversation, and tell me what I could have done to make it better, or to stop this". The answer is "nothing".
I remember one time we had sex the night before, he was being really nice to me, so I spent the day cooking, cleaning, "I washed the kitchen floor". I made lasagna that day, from scratch. He walked in, wouldn't even acknowledge me. He came home from work an hour late. I knew where he was, he was at the bar. I didn't say one word about that. Told him I would reheat the lasagna for him. He said f u. So I retreated to my den. Then he just started ranting and raging in the kitchen, I turned my recorder on. I went into the kitchen. He was pissed at me that I washed the kitchen floor. That I loved the kitchen floor more then I loved him. I ended up sleeping in the garage in my car with the doors locked.
Next day, he tells me that he was mad at me because he knew I would be upset that he came home late, so he just got mad at me on his way home. Where is the sense in any of that?
People ask "why is he doing this?". I spent over 30 years trying to figure that out, and I still don't know. It's like they fear abandonment and rejection, so they have to do it to you first. The push/pull thing.
I can understand all the different kinds of putting people on a pedestal type thing. The son who is put up there, and is afraid of failing, till he takes his own life because of the pressure. The people who put themselves up on that pedestal who think they are better then other people.
All I ever wanted to be was an equal partner. Just a person. A person who has their own quirks, own opinions, own views, and can accept others as the same.
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
The pedestal person doesn't talk back. Is perfect in every way, is infallible. Once you begin to show your humanness, imperfections, anger.. You are no longer the pedestal person.
You are the enemy.
When I read your posts I sense a lot of the traits of borderline personality disorder in your ex.
/QUOTE]
--------------------------------------------------
Thank you for this. The pedestal person is not allowed to talk back. Many times I felt like I was in a straightjacket with duct tape on my mouth. It was like if I disagreed, he didn't see or hear me at all. It was like I didn't exist to him at all. And yes, I was the enemy. He even told me so. He either idealized me or devalued me. It depended on his mood of the day, or the hour, or the minute.
I'm not even going to say he had traits of bpd. I think even without a professional diagnosis, I will say full blown high functioning bpd. This to me is even worse then low functioning bpd, they can't hold a job, and a lot of times are in jail. My ex could hold it together long enough, until we were alone. Then that other person came out.
I'm going to be really honest here. I have been out of my situation for over 4 years, but some of the things that I read here remind me so much of my marriage, and that is scary. I really don't buy into wet brain, or dry drunk too much. I can't give an alcoholic that excuse. I am an RA. There is no excuse for this kind of behavior. There might be a reason, but there is no excuse.
I read the threads here with people asking "what did I do wrong", and "can you listen to this conversation, and tell me what I could have done to make it better, or to stop this". The answer is "nothing".
I remember one time we had sex the night before, he was being really nice to me, so I spent the day cooking, cleaning, "I washed the kitchen floor". I made lasagna that day, from scratch. He walked in, wouldn't even acknowledge me. He came home from work an hour late. I knew where he was, he was at the bar. I didn't say one word about that. Told him I would reheat the lasagna for him. He said f u. So I retreated to my den. Then he just started ranting and raging in the kitchen, I turned my recorder on. I went into the kitchen. He was pissed at me that I washed the kitchen floor. That I loved the kitchen floor more then I loved him. I ended up sleeping in the garage in my car with the doors locked.
Next day, he tells me that he was mad at me because he knew I would be upset that he came home late, so he just got mad at me on his way home. Where is the sense in any of that?
People ask "why is he doing this?". I spent over 30 years trying to figure that out, and I still don't know. It's like they fear abandonment and rejection, so they have to do it to you first. The push/pull thing.
I can understand all the different kinds of putting people on a pedestal type thing. The son who is put up there, and is afraid of failing, till he takes his own life because of the pressure. The people who put themselves up on that pedestal who think they are better then other people.
All I ever wanted to be was an equal partner. Just a person. A person who has their own quirks, own opinions, own views, and can accept others as the same.
(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
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I was the one being told to get off my pedestal.... Indeed never put on one. I could only imagine how much pressure that must have been for you. But I can relate with every emotion being tied to me... especially the anger and jealousy. In fact I'm still dealing with, even with him in rehab.
I'm glad you aren't subjecting yourself to that torment any longer. You are super strong and an enormous inspiration in my life. hugs to you
I'm glad you aren't subjecting yourself to that torment any longer. You are super strong and an enormous inspiration in my life. hugs to you
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I used to fantasize about leaving in the middle of the night, or just sleeping in the car with the doors locked, and that was when our relationship was "really good" and I was still drinking with him. I used to imagine loading my cat in my 40 year old station wagon and moving to Florida.
The station wagon got sold. I'm a big guy, so sleeping in my PT Cruiser is impossible. Better to just stay away from the situation!!!
The station wagon got sold. I'm a big guy, so sleeping in my PT Cruiser is impossible. Better to just stay away from the situation!!!
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Originally Posted by freetosmile
I was the one being told to get off my pedestal.... Indeed never put on one. I could only imagine how much pressure that must have been for you. But I can relate with every emotion being tied to me... especially the anger and jealousy. In fact I'm still dealing with, even with him in rehab.
I'm glad you aren't subjecting yourself to that torment any longer. You are super strong and an enormous inspiration in my life. hugs to you
I'm glad you aren't subjecting yourself to that torment any longer. You are super strong and an enormous inspiration in my life. hugs to you
fts,
I always heard that I should get off my pedestal, I never put myself there, didn't want to be there, then I would hear that he could never be good enough for me, that he couldn't be that perfect man that I wanted. It was all a guilt trip for me. He put me on that pedestal, I didn't want that, but when he was good he was very very good, and when he was bad, he was awful.
What he wanted was a little puppet, that he could put away in the closet once he got tired of "playing" with me that day.
I only existed to him when he felt happy.
((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
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Originally Posted by amy55
fts,
I always heard that I should get off my pedestal, I never put myself there, didn't want to be there, then I would hear that he could never be good enough for me, that he couldn't be that perfect man that I wanted. It was all a guilt trip for me. He put me on that pedestal, I didn't want that, but when he was good he was very very good, and when he was bad, he was awful.
What he wanted was a little puppet, that he could put away in the closet once he got tired of "playing" with me that day.
I only existed to him when he felt happy.
((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
I always heard that I should get off my pedestal, I never put myself there, didn't want to be there, then I would hear that he could never be good enough for me, that he couldn't be that perfect man that I wanted. It was all a guilt trip for me. He put me on that pedestal, I didn't want that, but when he was good he was very very good, and when he was bad, he was awful.
What he wanted was a little puppet, that he could put away in the closet once he got tired of "playing" with me that day.
I only existed to him when he felt happy.
((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy
I finally shut down after about 10 years of marriage where I just stopped having emotions. He once told me I was like the guys and he liked that about me because then I wasn't a nagging, emotional, crying, hormonal wife. So, I realized that that's what he wanted: an emotionless 'perfect' happy wife where he could dump his strife and angst on me, complain incessantly about life and about me and express his jealousies of HIS own child, and then expect me to have sex with him afterwards.
And, what's really sick about all of this: I fell right into it. I worked myself in to a tizzy trying to be that perfect pedestal wife and I'd shove it all down year after year and then I'd cry after sex and not even know why. Yet, I'd wake up the morning and slap a smile on my face and do it all over again.
Thanks, Amy, for bringing this up. Not all alcoholics have these personality traits or this dynamic to the relationship with them, but it definitely is something I myself am quite familiar with.
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Originally Posted by Eauchiche
I used to fantasize about leaving in the middle of the night, or just sleeping in the car with the doors locked, and that was when our relationship was "really good" and I was still drinking with him. I used to imagine loading my cat in my 40 year old station wagon and moving to Florida. The station wagon got sold. I'm a big guy, so sleeping in my PT Cruiser is impossible. Better to just stay away from the situation!!!
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I really have to think about things, and remember things when I write about this. See my mind is not so clear anymore, after 30 years with him, I do even wonder if "I" even exist. Yes, we are talking about personality disorders, specifically "borderline".
A person with bpd will put you on a pedestal. You are the best thing that ever happened to him/her. You walk on water for them. You are the best. They are happy and it's all because of you. That is when they idolize you, and try to mirror you because they don't have anything in them self to look at. So while they put you on the pedestal, they also put themselves up there with you. You are them, they are you. They invade your soul. Like a vampire. They need for you to give and give and give them some more. You do. It's the beginning of a relationship. Isn't that what we do, we compromise !!!!!! You can look back on this many years from then and see there was no compromise, but it was the beginning of a relationship, so that's what you thought you were doing.
Second phase ----- you got knocked off your pedestal that they put you on. You don't know why. It's all alien to you, so you start to research about all the things that you are doing wrong. You try to do better and better, but nothing you do is good enough.
Why do they pick us? They know that we have empathy and compassion, they do feel that we will never leave them. A BPD biggest fear is rejection and abandonment. Guess what, so is ours. It's normal to have those feelings. But with BPD it's catastrophic.
We go thru the push/pull, the black/white thinking. We don't really understand this because we don't have BPD. Borderline Personality, thinking is totally different, they have no empathy for what they cause to another person, they can really only feel their own pain, their lack of self esteem, their moods, etc..... It's whatever they feel at that moment, and that moment can change at any time or last for weeks or months, or years.
So many people come here and say, my spouse just got up and left, he's gone now for a month or longer, 6 months or longer, and he blames me for everything. He talks to me when he has to, but I don't even feel like he saw me, I felt like I didn't exist. BTDT. I didn't exist then, because he painted me black, (black and white thinking). I was his enemy. I dared to express my feeling and my opinions. He tried to put up with it for awhile, but he couldn't. I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do.
I was trying to be a person.
My ex would always tell me that he wanted me to go back to being the person that I was, this was during apologies. He told me he didn't want me to be afraid of him anymore. So I tried to do what he wanted, I tried to be the "me" that he first met. I was wrong there also. That's not what he wanted, because he never really did see "me", I was an illusion, he wanted me to go back to the "illusion" that he had of me.
So do I go back to being who I was, nope wrong answer, I was supposed to make sure he was happy, and if he wasn't then I should accept that all the blame fell onto me.
I was supposed to be OK for all the months he just disappeared, that was my punishment for not being who he wanted me to be. Thing was, I would never be able to be who he wanted me to be. The criteria changed daily, or hourly. It changed whenever his mood changed.
I was supposed to cook, clean, iron, and when I did this, I wasn't supposed to do that, I was supposed to be there to answer all of his unending phone calls. The house was supposed to be clean, but if I dared to do this, then I was ignoring him, even though he wasn't at home. I was supposed to look sexy all the time, yet anything he bought for me to wear was XL mens clothes. If I tried to look sexy, he told me to go put a bra back on because I looked like a wh@re.
There was never a win win situation. My mind circled around and around on this. Whatever I did was wrong, if he was in a bad mood. I was his enemy even if I didn't say a word, even if I wasn't even there. I was blamed for it. I was blamed for global warming because I was alive and i was breathing the air.
I'm doing pretty well in my recovery. I think I mostly write this stuff so that sometimes people can look more at the behavior, instead of thinking, well if they can just stop drinking............
((((hug))))
amy
A person with bpd will put you on a pedestal. You are the best thing that ever happened to him/her. You walk on water for them. You are the best. They are happy and it's all because of you. That is when they idolize you, and try to mirror you because they don't have anything in them self to look at. So while they put you on the pedestal, they also put themselves up there with you. You are them, they are you. They invade your soul. Like a vampire. They need for you to give and give and give them some more. You do. It's the beginning of a relationship. Isn't that what we do, we compromise !!!!!! You can look back on this many years from then and see there was no compromise, but it was the beginning of a relationship, so that's what you thought you were doing.
Second phase ----- you got knocked off your pedestal that they put you on. You don't know why. It's all alien to you, so you start to research about all the things that you are doing wrong. You try to do better and better, but nothing you do is good enough.
Why do they pick us? They know that we have empathy and compassion, they do feel that we will never leave them. A BPD biggest fear is rejection and abandonment. Guess what, so is ours. It's normal to have those feelings. But with BPD it's catastrophic.
We go thru the push/pull, the black/white thinking. We don't really understand this because we don't have BPD. Borderline Personality, thinking is totally different, they have no empathy for what they cause to another person, they can really only feel their own pain, their lack of self esteem, their moods, etc..... It's whatever they feel at that moment, and that moment can change at any time or last for weeks or months, or years.
So many people come here and say, my spouse just got up and left, he's gone now for a month or longer, 6 months or longer, and he blames me for everything. He talks to me when he has to, but I don't even feel like he saw me, I felt like I didn't exist. BTDT. I didn't exist then, because he painted me black, (black and white thinking). I was his enemy. I dared to express my feeling and my opinions. He tried to put up with it for awhile, but he couldn't. I wasn't doing what he wanted me to do.
I was trying to be a person.
My ex would always tell me that he wanted me to go back to being the person that I was, this was during apologies. He told me he didn't want me to be afraid of him anymore. So I tried to do what he wanted, I tried to be the "me" that he first met. I was wrong there also. That's not what he wanted, because he never really did see "me", I was an illusion, he wanted me to go back to the "illusion" that he had of me.
So do I go back to being who I was, nope wrong answer, I was supposed to make sure he was happy, and if he wasn't then I should accept that all the blame fell onto me.
I was supposed to be OK for all the months he just disappeared, that was my punishment for not being who he wanted me to be. Thing was, I would never be able to be who he wanted me to be. The criteria changed daily, or hourly. It changed whenever his mood changed.
I was supposed to cook, clean, iron, and when I did this, I wasn't supposed to do that, I was supposed to be there to answer all of his unending phone calls. The house was supposed to be clean, but if I dared to do this, then I was ignoring him, even though he wasn't at home. I was supposed to look sexy all the time, yet anything he bought for me to wear was XL mens clothes. If I tried to look sexy, he told me to go put a bra back on because I looked like a wh@re.
There was never a win win situation. My mind circled around and around on this. Whatever I did was wrong, if he was in a bad mood. I was his enemy even if I didn't say a word, even if I wasn't even there. I was blamed for it. I was blamed for global warming because I was alive and i was breathing the air.
I'm doing pretty well in my recovery. I think I mostly write this stuff so that sometimes people can look more at the behavior, instead of thinking, well if they can just stop drinking............
((((hug))))
amy
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