Seren

So, I went through and answered (albeit in a rather brief way), the questions on the worksheet for step one:

My answers: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...give-shot.html

The worksheet: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-step-1-a.html

And it's not clear to me what is meant by this question:

In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?

I'm not trying to be flippant here, I just want to understand.

Situations, like work? home? school? family?

or are we talking one-on-one conflicts, arguments, disagreements, or perhaps social settings with large crowds?

Any hints and points of view will be welcome!

schnappi99

For me it was family, specifically my wife. It took the form of answering questions put to her that I thought were tough (to help, of course), or if she wasn't responding quickly enough (for me). Or signalling her in some way that I thought she was becoming histrionic. Or patting her knee to remind her to calm down.

I'd generalize and suggest that its applicable in any situation where you are unilaterally intervening in some way. Clearly there are cases where thats actually needed (pull the child out from in front of the oncoming car sort of stuff), I'd say the question is directed to the others.

I'd suggest that the value you get out is proportional to the effort you put into answering them. It took me a month to answer one of the step 4 questions.. I just didn't understand the question well; self-worth and preventing abuse; it was one of the 1st "a-ha" moments in the program & the answer took 2 pages.

freetosmile

Do I accept that I cannot control another person’s drinking? Another person’s behavior?
Yes I accept that I cannot control either the drinking or the behavior.
How do I recognize that the alcoholic is an individual with habits, characteristics and ways of reacting to daily happenings that are different from mine?
I recognize that my A has habits of lifestyle and communication that are FAR different than mine. In fact as far as the communication goes, it is what took us to marriage counseling in the first place. I recognize his drinking habits are FAR different than mine and are also unhealthy habits
Do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?
If I accept alcoholism as a disease then yes, it does help to better visualize the patient. With any disorder, there are treatments or interventions that can be utilized in order to ease the effects of the disease or to cure the disease entirely. If I view alcoholism as an incurable disease then I am also under the pretenses that there are "tools" available to increase quality and duration of life. It is up to the patient to use these tools and to adhere to the treatment regiment. In dealing with my A I would simply be asking if they are using their tools to have better quality and duration. If they are not, then there is no more of a need to try to help this patient because they clearly do not want the same things that I want for them. And it is not my choice and it is not within my control

How have I tried to change others in my life? What were the consequences?
Yes I have and the results were not good. No matter who it was or what the circumstances were. Generally the person I was trying to control ended up getting very angry with me. I usually ended up apologizing, even if it was for "their own good"
What means have I used to get what I want and need? What might work better to get my needs met? Guilt mostly....I usually throw a huge pity trip or become very passive aggressive until people finally "see it my way". Even when I know they really don't. I think I would like to not have to play guilt or pity games to get what I want . I would rather be able to provide that need or want for myself, or if it something I am not able to provide on my own...I would like to have the ability to simply COMMUNICATE the need to someone I feel safe with. MY AH is not good person to communicate my needs to right now, so I would need to gather some resources.

How do I feel when the alcoholic refuses to be and do what I want? How do I respond?
Very angry- and that anger is covering up my hurt. Because deep down I sad that he won't change and that I am not good enough for him to change. Both thoughts are unhealthy I know. He SHOULD change for himself, not me. I respond by simply resigning to his behavior. Basically just a I give up attitude. But I never really do give up. I just *sigh* and go about my day...but pissed off as hell inside
What would happen if I stopped trying to change the alcoholic or anyone else?
Nothing! Nothing would change...he would keep drinking and I would still be pissed, but maybe not AS pissed as I would be if I was still trying to change him.
How can I let go of others’ problems instead of trying to solve them?
Recognize that my life is unmanageable and that no matter how MUCH time and energy I put into changing or controlling others, the result was still the same in the end and the only time I ever saw positive results was when the person themselves made the choice to change, not because it forced by me.
Am I looking for a quick fix to my problems? Is there one?
No I want long term peace. I want a spiritual awakening in where I carry what I have learned through my entire walk of life and thereby becoming the person I really really want to be, the person GOD wants me to, and no I do not believe there is an easy fix
In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?
When they are emotionally upset. I feel like I need to bring them to a better spot. I feel like I'm their motivational speaker or something. I HAVE to have them leave their conversation with me on happy terms. I HATE it when people are mad at me and I will push and push and push to find a resolution as soon as possible, even if it means me admitting to something I didn't do, or agreeing to change a part of me that I actually like. I hate it when people aren't happy and sometimes (often, actually) make them angry with me because I push too hard and don't give them the space they need.
In what situations do I feel shame or embarrassment for someone else’s behavior?
When talking about how jealous and controlling my AH is. It is embarrassing to admit that you have thrown shirts away because your husband thinks they are inappropriate. It is embarrassing to tell friends that I can't go out to coffee or something with them because of my AH suspicions about me being unfaithful. It is really embarrassing to tell my family about my AH controlling behavior

schnappi99

Props for putting this up fts!

I quoted one of the questions you responded to, its one of the "a-ha" sort for me, one of the deceptively simple ones that would generate a paragraph or two. The anyone else angle is particularly of interest to me. I have had a habit to be triggered on discussions of political and gov't exercise of power. I tend to have anger, simmering resentment mostly directed inside sorts of responses. In general, passive aggressive. By learning to let the topic go by- do not engage- do not participate then I retain peace of mind and move on to other things. Man it is such a relief when I succeed at it... I would sometimes spend hours in such a state of internal fury over political/religious/power comments that people made.. that kind of stuff is mental poison for me.

thx for listening..

Hawks

That is an awesome insight FTS.

Eauchiche

For me, the current manifestation of "excessive responsibility" has been my concern for my separated mate's health insurance.
He is on my insurance at my company. We have excellent coverage, which he is going to need eventually due to his own abuse of alcohol and smoking 2 packs a day. Before I got this job, we tried to buy health insurance. He was declined twice because his doctor put into his medical records that he abuses alcohol.
This concern has motivated my career choices up until now, but I am starting to see the fallacy of this type of thinking. This is another way I have tried to prevent him from hitting bottom.

NotSoSmart

I'll give you an example of my own stinky thinking. My ex and I are not together, over 3 months now. She got a dog. The dog has a behavior problem... just a little one (it is a viscious scary snarling cur around anyone but her). What did I do? I checked the Cesar Milan website to see how people get referred to him. I watched Cesar 911 about "red zone dogs" to see why the dog might behave this way.

HELLO - THIS IS NOT MY DOG. I have nothing to do with it, I don't see it, need to interact with it and it is not my problem. Why did I do this? I saw the dog as a barrier to us getting back together- if the dog would be nice and not try to eat my dogs, son or me, reunification might be an option. As it stood with the dog being as trippy as it is, there was no way we could all live together. STINKY THINKING.

99% of the time when I have an "excessive responsiblity" for something/someone, there is a hidden motivation there. Part of my 1st step work is to cut those strings off, where I am trying to control an outcome (fix dog so we can be happy family).

freetosmile

He he...I don't you or what you look like ...but the visual of this is kind of funny!! I mean, good for your for recognizing and stopping yourself...but it's kind of humerous.

Seren

The more I think about this, I suppose my 'excessive responsibility' radar kicks in around family issues. I still sometimes feel as though I have to 'fix' the relationship between my sister (recovering alcoholic/powder cocaine addict) and my parents (mom is classic, full-on ACoA). I do have to remind myself on a fairly regular basis that their relationship with my sister is theirs to manage.

Right now, there is a family member whose oldest toddler is going through some behavioral issues. This came to a mini-crisis yesterday, and made me uncomfortable most of the rest of that day thinking about the stress and drama in that family right now. Again, not my child, not my immediate family, but I 'feel' the need to fix this for them--yet know that I can't. And I remind myself that I'm more than NOT qualified to do so

waggin

double post

waggin

In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?
When they are emotionally upset. I feel like I need to bring them to a better spot. I feel like I'm their motivational speaker or something. I HAVE to have them leave their conversation with me on happy terms. I HATE it when people are mad at me and I will push and push and push to find a resolution as soon as possible, even if it means me admitting to something I didn't do, or agreeing to change a part of me that I actually like. I hate it when people aren't happy and sometimes (often, actually) make them angry with me because I push too hard and don't give them the space they need.

Whoa, can I relate to this. When people are emotionally upset it just becomes my problem, even if i barely know them. And when they are angry with me (this is almost always with a boyfriend) either i push hard with apologies because they're right, i was wrong and i annoy them to death. Or i get angry because they're wrong and "this is BS!" and "you're just being a jerk!" and the outcome is... not good ugh
is there a name for this???
Thank you, Free for verbalizing that so well! I'm just moseying around, checking out the 12 step stuff for F&F. Not really a part of it yet. I enjoyed reading those questions and Free's answers, also considering my own answers. i can see how this stuff is very helpful

Ann

This one sentence goes right to the heart of my codependency. I feel responsible for others and want to solve their problems for them...because it is easier for me to solve their problems (no matter what it takes) than it is to watch anyone I love agonize or face unhappiness.

My codependency is rooted in bad things happening to people I love. So, before recovery, I dedicated my life to doing for others what they really should be doing for themselves. Fear drove me, fear of something bad happening to them or fear of what unhappiness may bring them. Darned "fear" of things that were not my demons to face.

I recognize this today. When I am tempted to jump in I pause and ponder..."was I asked to help?"..."do I own this problem and is it mine to solve?"..."Would taking over this problem rob someone else of the experience of taking care of themselves?..."Is this a healthy situation for me to even be involved in?.

Most times I just encourage the person who faces the problem, and say a prayer that they will find the courage to resolve whatever is happening.

There is a huge difference between being a "helpful friend" and "trying to force the outcome for someone else." Today I can see what is and what is not my part. Sometimes it still takes work.

Hugs

waggin

Welp, my brain is tapped out for now

Step 1: We admitted we were powerless over alcohol ~ that our lives had become unmanageable.


Do I accept that I cannot control another person’s drinking? Another person’s behavior?
Yes. I totally have accepted that i cannot change someone's drinking one bit. When it comes to behavior, i may still think a lot of what i do affects other peoples' behavior. i feel that way because i feel like a lot of my behavior (this is all specific to boyfriends) is affected greatly by others. I feel like an idiot but that doesn't seem that unimaginable to me.

How do I recognize that the alcoholic is an individual with habits, characteristics and ways of reacting to daily happenings that are different from mine?
I know this because I've known him when he's not drinking. He has quirks and THE BEST sense of humor, he's quick, intelligent, confident, sweet, and helpful. He also, when not drinking, is a little selfish and spoiled about things. He likes money too much, in my opnion. He's critical of people too, when not drinking. I've witnessed all of these things. He has assets and deficits, just like me and everybody else.

Do I accept that alcoholism is a disease? How does that change how I deal with a drinker?
I do accept it is a disease. It's like nothing I've seen before in my life. Accepting that alcoholism is disease is the only way for me to wrap my head around what I've seen and experienced with my now ex-boyfriend. It allows me to feel more sympathy for him, without it draining me. In general it helps me take his behavior less personally and forget a lot of his hurtful BS. Although I doubt it appears that way to him.

I do believe it's a very complicated disease bc it's more than that. A disease of the mind is very elusive and intertwined with so many body processes and has soooo many variables. Just trying to cure depression alone is difficult.

How have I tried to change others in my life? What were the consequences?
With the recent (yesterday) ex, I cried, I talked to him, I asked him questions, I sent him articles on the subject, I tried not mentioning it, I tried yelling, I tried acting like i didn't care, I tried drinking with him (a lot), I tried abstaining (27 days in july), I tried getting closer, I tried giving space, I tried running away.
The best result was when I abstained. I said nothing, just said, "no thanks. not tonight" when he'd pour his. After a couple weeks, he went 10 days :')
Acting like a didn't care, giving space, not mentioning alcohol decreased the tension. I felt much better, but his habits didn't change. And then we still fight because he gets confused, confusing and irritable when he's wasted for days in a row.
Everything else, there was no change in his behavior as a result. I, however felt like I was going crazy, shutting down, I was exhausted

What means have I used to get what I want and need? What might work better to get my needs met?
Within a relationship: To get my needs met from another person, I ask for help. From everyday stuff like "Can you help me with these groceries?" to bigger stuff like, “I need you to not get that drunk when we’re together.”
I often go silent after I’ve asked more than once and I see no changes. I watch them not have concern or not show care and I let it build up and build up. It becomes a combination of "you're a terrible person for not caring!" and "I'm not worthy of him caring."
I'll have to stew on what might work better. Beyond just asking, I can’t think of any alternatives. Maybe, state what you need and want. When these needs and wants aren’t met, you walk or impose a change. I don’t know. Need help with this one.

How do I feel when the alcoholic refuses to be and do what I want? How do I respond?
I cry or yell. I assume it's me that's stressing him out or asking too much. I feel unworthy of a real partner. I feel let down and ALONE.
Sometimes, I know he's confused (really drunk) and maybe trying to confuse me? He's too drunk to hear anything I say as how I mean it and I feel so over-whelmed inside it feels like I might explode. It's when my impulsiveness is sky high and I want to hurt myself or break something.

What would happen if I stopped trying to change the alcoholic or anyone else?
I would (and did) stress out way less. He probably stressed less too. But his habits didn't change.

How can I let go of others’ problems instead of trying to solve them?
I have to be mindful of this. And so I'll have to practice some mindfulness. I understand why it isn't good to take on other people's problems the way a lot of us do. So that's good. But changing it is a different game.

Am I looking for a quick fix to my problems? Is there one?
I don't believe there is one. I feel like change for me will come after many many days of living right. All that living right will feel good as it is happening too. But with time, the lasting changes will stick, the longer I go, doing what's right for me, everyday.
But how I behaved in the thick of my relationship with the alcoholic does not represent this belief. It's not like I wanted him to stop drinking NOW. But i did want him to help me with the dog with the bleeding tail next to the ultra-white wall NOW. I did want him to stop getting angry at me for not understanding when he mumbles and slurs nonsense NOW. Ugh you get the idea. He wasn't capable. I shouldn't have tried to count on him to "be there." My bad.

What I know and what I do/feel are not the same thing. How do I reconcile this?

In what situations do I feel excessive responsibility for other people?
When someone in the room or in my circle isn't "ok." Everyone at least has to be ok, not perfect, but ok. Then we can all enjoy each other's friggin company. Now smile, damnit! Just kidding.
But really, that's the house I grew up in. And I know that must be how I am. What I wrote is my father's take on this trait. I'm more like my mom. She is a fiercely loyal mother. She will hunt down and ream out anyone who hurt us or gave us any trouble. This was back when we were kids. But it's a model for my current behavior for those closest to me. It scared me as a child, how angry at others she got. Then I would cry and she would further take it out on whatever teacher or classmate's parent had wronged me. I hated it. I grew up afraid of my mother, but then she was so loving and understanding about some things. It's was pretty unpredictable. But she was that way because she loved the **** out of us. She was the daughter of a severely alcoholic mother and enabler father. Also fiercely loyal people.

In what situations do I feel shame or embarrassment for someone else’s behavior?
I feel ashamed and embarrassed for them and myself when they act out in public. When my recent ex was on a bender, he said some horrible things to strangers or just aloud so everyone could here. Racial slurs were most often the source of embarrassment for me. Or he would say sexually explicit things about me aloud in public. But he was obviously intoxicated to most any adult observing. That brought shame to me too. "Yeah, I'm with "n****r guy. Fantastic." I sacrificed my integrity to appease him. Sad.

What brought me to Al-Anon? What did I hope to gain at that time? How have my expectations changed?
N/A

Who has expressed concern about my behavior? My health? My children? Give examples.
Not exabf!
My parents, my coworkers, my sister, 2 of my friends.

D: How's it going with Jon. Is he being nice to you?
Dad: How's your health?
Mom and Dad gave me the names of their doctors so i could schedule since I now have health insurance for the first time since 2008!
Sister: Checking in, how are you? How's it going with Jon? Are you caring for yourself?
Friend 1: Do you. Live YOUR dream. It concerns me that you're suicidal for a guy who treats you like ****. You're letting him drag you down

How do I know when my life is unmanageable?
When my job is in jeopardy. If I'm not making it in to work, I'm not ok.
Also a good sign is when i drop weight and stop exercising. I can’t eat when I'm anxious or depressed. Oh and I can’t sleep more than an hour at a time and i'm lucky if i get 4 hours a night. I need 6 -8. Right now I'm not eating or sleeping.

How have I sought approval and affirmation from others?
Boyfriends: By doing things for them: cleaning, cooking, trying to be funny, complementing them, telling them how much i love them and how grateful I am that they're in my life :'(
With everyone (including boyfriends): I try to be funny, say witty things, be entertaining. Always trying to put on a show. It's tiring.

Do I say “yes” when I want to say “no”? What happens to my ability to manage my life when I do this?
I do. And my life becomes all about somebody else's and often all about how they feel about me. I become exhausted, neglected, depressed and my self-worth goes into the *******.

Do I take care of others easily, but find it difficult to care for myself?
Yep : /

How do I feel when life is going smoothly? Do I continually anticipate problems? Do I feel more alive in the midst of a crisis?
I smile and then I think about how in a minute this could all go bye-bye. And then it does.
I just feel like most of my life has been in crisis or post-crisis. It’s just my norm now. I don’t feel more alive in crisis, I feel anxious and irritable and unpleasant.

How well do I take care of myself?
Poorly. I get haircuts maybe once a year. My car is filthy inside and out. My apartment, though clean, is very sparsely furnished. I haven’t been to a dr since 2008. Before that it was 2002. I eat right and exercise though. That’s about all I have going for me in the way of self-care.

How do I feel when I am alone?
If it's a chosen alone, then I feel great, peaceful and empowered. But if I'm left alone, like right now, i feel not worthy and i become suicidal. It's been since I was a child that I was ditched out on by friends. So I put off something and of course the years of being ditched make that desperate vibe i put off worse. Self -esteem--> *******.

What is the difference between pity and love?
Love is shared between people. Pity is shown to one person by another. Also, with pity, the one being pitied has no power, probably why they're being pitied. But with love there's an equal balance. You're both giving and taking love.

Am I attracted to alcoholics and other people who seem to need me to fix them? How have I tried to fix them?
I am. I try to take care of them and cheer them on while they "figure it out."

Do I trust my own feelings? Do I know what they are?
I don't think I do trust a lot of my own feelings. I worry I'm a chronic and gross over-reacter?? How I view the world and what people do is messed up. In that case, how can I or anyone trust what I feel? The last guy had me believing the sky was green and the leaves were blue.
I'm not sure I know what all my feelings are. But I can identify a lot of them. Sometimes it's not until after I got very angry that actually i realize I was very hurt. So, I'm guessing that happens a lot more in other ways.

freetosmile

double

freetosmile

Waggin-

Hey thanks for sharing your answers! It really sounded like you took a hard look at yourself when you answered them.

I totally relate with the not eating part...I've dropped a lot of weight lately. Pants don't fit...and I not exercising.

I also loved your "now smile dammit!" I AM like that...can't we all just be happy, and if not - WHY THE HELL NOT?!

You did great.

BTW- I started going to alanon---it was amazing. WOW- the support that you get is unreal. It's nice to be around people who understand. It's def worth my time!

Thanks for the post chick!

SabrinaQ

One of the most fabulous things about realizing I was codependent,

was realizing that I had a huge, weird, inappropriate sense of responsibility for a lot of things that happened around me,

I'm not sure where that feeling came from,
but understanding that I don't need to carry all that lifted a huge weight off my shoulders!

Now I just take responsibility for MY responsibilities,

I'm not a goddess or superhuman,

I feel much more relaxed now and I think I am also more fun to be around!

Phew!

Tiredwife88

I'm so happy I read this thread!
Ann what you said above hit me, this is me!!
I've been like this forever, not only with my Recovering husband, but also with my kids.

I've been trying not to do this, and this discussion one I will keep coming back to and re-reading.
Thanks!