typical behaviors caused by alcoholism

Old 12-23-2014, 07:39 PM
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typical behaviors caused by alcoholism

As I read through other post, many people talk about typical behaviors of an alcoholic, so I wondered what alcoholic related behaviors have most of you experienced with your A. In other words, what do they often do that is out of character to who they really are as a sober person?

I know of the well known behaviors of someone who is drunk, but I'm more interested in understanding how the supposedly high functioning alcoholic behaves, whether currently drinking or not (but who has it running throughout their system because of drinking so often).

For example, some things I've learned/read on here that common behaviors include manipulation, lies, anger, rage, possible sociopathic traits or narcissism, borrowing money... so, I just wondered what have you guys experienced. thanks.
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Old 12-23-2014, 07:49 PM
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Laziness, inability to follow through with things, broken promises, lack of money even with a good job, lying about money, drunk driving, lying about drunk driving, mood swings, suicide threats, threatening that if I left him he'd kill me (this was always said as a joke, however), inability to take responsibility for themselves, lack of motivation, hiding in parking lots to drink before work, after work, when getting groceries, when picking up dinner, attempts to alienate your friends that dislike them or have concerns about your relationship, acting like temper-tantrum-throwing-2-year-olds when they don't get their way, maturity level much lower than where it should be, sulking, whining, more sulking and whining, sneakiness, manipulation, lies, more sneakiness, manipulation and lies, lies about the sneakiness, manipulation and lies.... there is so much more, but I'm sure you get the point.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:04 PM
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The thing is, you don't really know if the behavior is alcohol-related until they're sober for a significant period of time.
My ex husband was not an alcoholic but he was abusive, bad with money, a compulsive liar, controlling and all kinds of other negative qualities.
My alcoholic ex displayed similar behavior, which I was always quick to chalk up to his drinking, but honestly, that was my desperation and denial. I wanted so badly for it to work that I made his drinking the focal point. If I could just get him to quit, that would solve all of our problems.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:06 PM
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http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-part-1-a.html

Last edited by ladyscribbler; 12-23-2014 at 08:10 PM. Reason: Double post replaced with link
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:12 PM
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Think of the person you fell in love with. Think of all the things you loved about them, big and small. The words and acts that made you want to be near them. The character traits that you were drawn to. One by one they will all be sacrificed at the alter of their addiction. That is what is typical.
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Old 12-23-2014, 08:57 PM
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I guess I don't know what you really want here. I'm not going to say that there aren't certain traits that can be contributed to alcoholism, but I can't say that all the things that you read here, are only caused by alcoholism.

Many times alcoholism is but a symptom of a much larger problem.

I am an alcoholic. I did not cheat or steal. I did have anger, but I was in an abusive relationship. I don't know, I think that would anger anyone.

I did lie, I lied to cover up how much I drank, I rotated beer stores, I hid cans of beer, so that I could have them instead of my ex. I would say that I was not that emotionally involved with my children, but I'm not sure if that was because I was drinking, or because I was afraid of my ex.

I really don't like to just point my finger at alcoholism being the only problem. I think what it really comes down to is "is this the type of person you want to spend your life with, just as he is now?"

I do think that drinking tends to make a person feel more at ease where they can revert back to the person that they are. It makes a person feel uninhibited. They don't really judge or think about the consequences to their behavior. So what I think should be questioned is the behavior.

((((((((((hugs))))))))
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:29 PM
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I realize that an A isn't truly "sober" or in recovery unless they work a program, but for the sake of being able to tell a noticeable difference, when my AH is actually drinking, I can tell after as little as two beers.

When sober (or at least not drinking that day) he is very quiet, withdrawn, and even on the awkwardly withdrawn a silent type. After as little as two beers, he becomes a chatty patty, boisterous, loud, rambling, wanting social interaction with as many people as possible, or will follow me around like a puppy dog chit chatting away. Thing is, its usually always about something he's way passionate about or disturbed by at the time, and I've learned it does no good to try to participate in the conversation because he won't let you get a word in edgewise, and even when I used to it somehow always started a fight or him to go off on rant even if I spoke quietly and avoided any type of critism or negativity. Most of the time when he gets past 10 or 15 beers anyway, but things don't seem to escalate as bad if I zip it and nod my head or just stare at the TV like he's not there.

Even his mom can tell over the phone if he's had even a couple.

And when he's sober (again:"@least that day ") he is very meticulous and anal and has a " does the work of two men" work ethic , wipes toilet rims down after peeing-even in public restrooms, says "yes sir yes Mame" get a few drinks in him and he turns into a no show to work, cuss like a sailor, sloppy, messy, breaks things, risk taking, pees his pants then sits on others furniture and bed (tries to hide it) and belittles people invidiously....

He's gotten 5 DUIs, countless times in jail (says he misses it sometimes), drinking, fighting, assault on a police officer, restraining order (my ex husband/daughters)...

Very Jekel and Hyde! SIGH!!!
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:10 PM
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I wanted to add that most doctors refuse to even try to diagnose an alcoholic that even only binge drinks on the weekend because a lot of alcoholic behaviors mimic mental disorders like bipolar or schizophrenia; how could they tell which was which?

So if trained medical professionals can't and won't tell the difference, how can we? And probably even dangerous and unhealthy for those in the alcoholic's life.

What the above poster said about them "having to get sober first" as in long term sobriety, we t can't know.

My AH has had multiple head injuries as a result of his drunken behavior which could be a part of his problem. That being said he was drinking and partipating in risk taking behavior when he GOT the had injuries; so it's one of those "which came first? The chicken or the egg" type things.
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Old 12-23-2014, 11:09 PM
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I agree with torquemax in that it's sort of a "chicken or the egg" deal. My AM is a narcissist. She's almost worse sober than she is drunk. It really depends on the underlying issues behind the drinking, and a host of other factors.
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Old 12-24-2014, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by torquemax777 View Post
I wanted to add that most doctors refuse to even try to diagnose an alcoholic that even only binge drinks on the weekend because a lot of alcoholic behaviors mimic mental disorders like bipolar or schizophrenia; how could they tell which was which?

So if trained medical professionals can't and won't tell the difference, how can we? And probably even dangerous and unhealthy for those in the alcoholic's life.

What the above poster said about them "having to get sober first" as in long term sobriety, we t can't know.

My AH has had multiple head injuries as a result of his drunken behavior which could be a part of his problem. That being said he was drinking and partipating in risk taking behavior when he GOT the had injuries; so it's one of those "which came first? The chicken or the egg" type things.
Lying is the cornerstone of Alcoholism IMO.

While there may be some cross over in exhibition of behavior, a good doctor would bring in a mental health specialist to assess.

An emergency room visitation may not diagnose alcoholism until the patient is in later stages presenting physical symptoms (elevated enzymes liver and pancreatic etc). Of course many A's also have underlying mental illness too which they are self medicating for. Mental health issues are often misdiagnosed.

IME the core behavior traits of a schizophrenic and a Bipolar are not the same as a drunk person. While a schizophrenic might talk about things that did not happen, or have beliefs that are not there which would be similar to lying, their delusions are pretty obvious as opposed to an A that my reek of alcohol and be obviously drunk and deny they have been drinking. Bipolars type 2 are difficult as their symptoms present and are most often diagnosed as depression. Type 1 delusion can certainly be psychotic and definitely a red flag that something is going on more so than being drunk.

The bottom line is a general practitioner or an emergency room doctor is unlikely to diagnose a mental illness presented along with alcoholism.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:05 AM
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carmen, we have had this question from you before as I recall.

Bottom line is your alcoholic may also have personality issues which are problematic but not necessarily related to alcoholism.

He's been an alcoholic so long neither one of you can really know this,
but until he quits totally for quite a long interval, you won't be able to tell.

It sounds to me like you are trying to get some answers you want by asking the same question again.
Look at what we said when you asked these type of questions over and over in the past.
I don't mean this critically, but with compassion. You keep beating your poor head against the same wall
hoping for different outcome. It doesn't look like, observing his actions, you are going to get it.

Please be honest with yourself about why you keep trying to analyze someone who seems to be incapable of having a solid and positive relationship with another person--
It doesn't matter why or where the source of the problem is if he can't treat you with respect and empathy right now.
He isn't sober, he hasn't said he is going to get sober, and you are still not hearing him.

The "whys" of his bad behavior really aren't your problem unless you keep making it so.
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Old 12-24-2014, 05:27 AM
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Here are some links to some previous posts where you asked about essentially the same thing:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-insanity.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...d-alcohol.html

There are some good responses here which would be useful to reread if you are still struggling with this carmen--he really hasn't changed I'm sorry to say but you can.
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Old 12-24-2014, 06:48 AM
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Hawkeye,

I knew you would say this...lol. I am trying to learn. It is too hard to really explain a full picture of my personal experience on a discussion board, so I learn a lot from what others have to say on certain questions that I post. It's not all so black and white. Sometimes I need to know these things and I can't explain why. My healing and understanding might be gradual, but I'm heading in the right direction. Part of my healing is to get a clear understanding in my mind until it clicks. I imagine that is the same for many people here; our experiences are unique; and yet similar. I'm getting there. Sorry if I ask too many questions. Don't mean to repeat myself, but I do like to hear what others have to say on the subject, even if I revisit it, as there are always new people with potentially more commonality to relate to.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:01 AM
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The problem is that most of the questions you are posting seem to be aimed at diagnosing "where he is at." And that isn't productive for you.

You can SEE what he's doing. You can SEE how he behaves with you. Does it really matter all that much how much is alcoholism and how much is some other personality issue or mental illness? I haven't heard that he has made one serious move toward quitting drinking, so really, it's anybody's guess. We don't have some "magic" that will make it all clear to you. What you need to do is to trust yourself. Is this how you envision the rest of your life? Because what you're seeing right now is the best predictor of what that life will look like unless he quits drinking and addresses whatever other issues may be contributing to his behavior. And because alcoholism is progressive, and complicates and amplifies whatever else may be going on with him, it is likely to get much, much worse over time.

We've all been where you're at, but you seem to be spinning your wheels a bit trying to get a handle on what EXACTLY his problem(s) is/are. The more you focus on YOU, the less critical HIS issues will become.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:11 AM
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Driving with open container ..getting a six pack and saying grab me another one while he was driving. He gets obnoxious loud and sometimes verbally abusive then passes out and it starts all over again the next day. Get up, smoke some weed, drink a pepsi, then beer and weed all day til he passes out. Pretty much the same behavior day after day...
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:31 AM
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I reread your threads.

No one can say whether or not your ABF has a mental disorder. I do not see anything you have written that would indicate that he has "alcoholic insanity". I actually think what you are talking about is "wetbrain" - which is an advanced outcome of long term drinking. The behaviors that you are concerned about - the moodiness and anger - are not signs of wetbrain.

What you are dealing with is prevalent amongst alcoholics period. You state that when he stops drinking he shows the signs of withdrawal so he most likely has a physical dependency on alcohol and not all alcoholics do.

I get asking the same question over and over I have done that myself. When someone does that its not that they don't understand its that they are searching for the answer they want it to be. You want to know that if he quit drinking that the anger, moodiness and everything else would go away. Dunno.

Nobody knows. He doesn't know. He exhibits some signs of BP 2. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. He has not attempted recovery so no way to answer that. And, if he does have a mental illness that's one more thing to have to treated and figured out.

You up for all this?

I'm sorry for what you are going through it sucks. Lexie and Hawkeye have nailed it though - you can ask a million times the answer will still be the same. He is an active alcoholic and that's all.
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Old 12-24-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by redatlanta View Post
I reread your threads.

No one can say whether or not your ABF has a mental disorder. I do not see anything you have written that would indicate that he has "alcoholic insanity". I actually think what you are talking about is "wetbrain" - which is an advanced outcome of long term drinking. The behaviors that you are concerned about - the moodiness and anger - are not signs of wetbrain.

What you are dealing with is prevalent amongst alcoholics period. You state that when he stops drinking he shows the signs of withdrawal so he most likely has a physical dependency on alcohol and not all alcoholics do.

I get asking the same question over and over I have done that myself. When someone does that its not that they don't understand its that they are searching for the answer they want it to be. You want to know that if he quit drinking that the anger, moodiness and everything else would go away. Dunno.

Nobody knows. He doesn't know. He exhibits some signs of BP 2. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. He has not attempted recovery so no way to answer that. And, if he does have a mental illness that's one more thing to have to treated and figured out.

You up for all this?

I'm sorry for what you are going through it sucks. Lexie and Hawkeye have nailed it though - you can ask a million times the answer will still be the same. He is an active alcoholic and that's all.
In my experience my AH quit drinking for 15 years and that's when the mental illness stuff started creeping into my thoughts. He quit before we married but both his parents were alcoholics. I didn't know anything about the disease and never heard the term 'dry drunk'. As redatlanta said here, he has not attempted recovery. And, I can tell you with certainty, that JUST quitting drinking alone may not be the answer to fix him.

I gave up caring whether he has a mental illness along with the alcoholism. It didn't matter. What mattered was how I was going to live the best life I could despite what he brought into my life. Living a full life despite the lying, despite the drunk driving, despite the unmanageability, despite the depression, despite the paranoia from him, despite the passive aggressive behavior, etc etc....you get the picture.

I needed to figure out what I wanted FOR ME and that's taken up enough of my mental and emotional energy to begin with, but it helped me stop trying to label him. What difference did it matter because he is who he is today. Can I live for the next 20 years with day after day being just like today? Because he's shown me no reason to believe that he will be changing. But, I can change and I can get better and I can develop a plan for where I want my life to be.

What is it that you want for yourself? If the next 5 years of your life are mirror images of what life is today....is that what you want FOR YOU?
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Old 12-24-2014, 08:17 AM
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Carmen....I think that lots of people fall into the line of thinking: "If I can figure it out I can, then, FIX it". Especially those of us who are died in the wool "fixers" of problems. We think the WE can control it...that WE can fix it.

Carmen...you will never be able to get a clear picture of his mental derangements in your mind....never.....because, it is not doable. This forum has hundreds of stories of people..some who have spent 10--20--30--40yrs. trying to do this same thing...with no result.

I am actually a big proponent of learning and studying. I have always preached that knowledge is power. But, understanding a thing (even if that is possible) doesn't mean that you can always fix it.

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Old 12-24-2014, 08:34 AM
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The healing for you will start when you accept what is and stop asking why. The outcome is the same, it does not matter which came first, mental illness or addiction. For many, including my X, there is both. What I realized is that he will always have both and will always act a certain way, and that is not a happy or productive thing to live with.

Tight hugs.
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Old 12-24-2014, 11:12 AM
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Carmen, I posted on another thread about DV that I had a huge investment in believing that all of my ex's bad behavior was caused by alcohol. It was actually the linchpin that held our relationship together for so long. He had a ready-made excuse for everything and I had the constant hope that he would quit drinking so we could have the near-perfect relationship I was sure would be possible if he only quit drinking.
It didn't matter that he never expressed any desire to quit or made any effort to get sober. Once in a while he's make a comment about how he needed to quit spending so much at the liquor store or he'd go an unusually long time between binges. In my fairy tale world this meant he had finally gotten it and happiness was right around the corner. Of course it meant nothing. He kept drinking and I kept hanging on and we both kept getting sicker and sicker.
This cycle didn't end until I left for good and established a firm rule of limited contact only relating to our son and that goes to no contact when he's been drinking.
My ex has not changed at all, except to progress in his alcoholism and get worse. He is hardly recognizable to those of us who knew him before his decline. There is nothing left of the man he once was. Could he get better if he sought recovery? Maybe. It would take a lot of effort on his part, and he is unwilling to even admit he has a problem with alcohol. Anyone who suggests that he does is automatically labeled the enemy. He has alienated all of his family and friends with the exception of some very sick enablers who have a big investment in keeping him in a constant alcoholic daze.
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