Control

Old 12-15-2014, 03:58 PM
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Control

Over the years, there has never been any amount of my loving concern, anxious worrying, sleepless nights, begging, pleading, tears, attempts at manipulation, snarky snide remarks, condescension, yelling, and even threats ("or else") that ever made one wit of difference in the drinking or drugging behavior of my addicted loved ones.

Control, or rather my attempts at control, was something I finally had to give up where my addicted family members are concerned, or I was going to be one bitter and angry woman.

It took me a loooooooonnnnngggg old time to get there, and is still something I work at today.

Interestingly enough, during my years as a member of SoberRecovery, I realized I don't have any control over the decisions made by my fellow friends and family members, either.

I used to find myself feeling very frustrated at times with some other members and I would start saying the same thing to them over and over again because clearly, they hadn't understood what wonderful and sage advice I was offering or they would be taking my advice and putting it into action by now, gosh darn it! If they would only do what I said.....er.....*sigh*.....control, much, there Seren?

Yep, I was trying to control another friend or family member here in the same way I used to try to control my addicted family members! Sheesh!

What I really appreciate about a place like SR, even more than I did in the beginning, is the breadth of experience among our members. It's amazing to me still when someone shares their experience and their own insight that might be one I did not have. It's my decision, however, whether or not to incorporate that new idea into my life--whether or not I think it is relevant to my situation or if it will work for me. The bottom line is that we all have the right to live our lives and make our own decisions based on our own best judgment at the time--even if others don't agree.

Peace in the valley, S
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:24 PM
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I realize I can't control anybody else. Still, a return call from the sister of my alky mate, who I approached for help with an intervention-she called him and told him instead, would have been nice.
The craziness in these families sometimes just baffles the imagination.
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Old 12-15-2014, 06:46 PM
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It's really quite amazing that we don't get into fistfights more often than we do here, a bunch of codependent controlling folks as we can be...

Point very well taken, Seren.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Seren View Post
Over the years, there has never been any amount of my loving concern, anxious worrying, sleepless nights, begging, pleading, tears, attempts at manipulation, snarky snide remarks, condescension, yelling, and even threats ("or else") that ever made one wit of difference in the drinking or drugging behavior of my addicted loved ones.

Control, or rather my attempts at control, was something I finally had to give up where my addicted family members are concerned, or I was going to be one bitter and angry woman.

It took me a loooooooonnnnngggg old time to get there, and is still something I work at today.

Interestingly enough, during my years as a member of SoberRecovery, I realized I don't have any control over the decisions made by my fellow friends and family members, either.

I used to find myself feeling very frustrated at times with some other members and I would start saying the same thing to them over and over again because clearly, they hadn't understood what wonderful and sage advice I was offering or they would be taking my advice and putting it into action by now, gosh darn it! If they would only do what I said.....er.....*sigh*.....control, much, there Seren?

Yep, I was trying to control another friend or family member here in the same way I used to try to control my addicted family members! Sheesh!

What I really appreciate about a place like SR, even more than I did in the beginning, is the breadth of experience among our members. It's amazing to me still when someone shares their experience and their own insight that might be one I did not have. It's my decision, however, whether or not to incorporate that new idea into my life--whether or not I think it is relevant to my situation or if it will work for me. The bottom line is that we all have the right to live our lives and make our own decisions based on our own best judgment at the time--even if others don't agree.

Peace in the valley, S
Thank you for your post, Seren. I really do enjoy SR, as it offers me a place of recovery when I cannot attend a meeting. My husband loves to spend time with me watching tv, and so I am able to come here on SR while being with him (killing two birds with one stone). (Oh, oh, I can just envision the multitude of posts that will tell me I am living for him and not taking care of myself, LOL!!!)

Anyways, in my months here since joining SR, I did at many times feel pressured to leave my husband, and that if I didn't take this advice, something was wrong with me. In other words, I felt other members were trying to control me. I am still with my husband today and grateful for this decision to be able to think for myself. Will my husband drink again, become belligerent, and do something stupid? Possibly, but this is where I am right now.

Thank you for your post because I think it's important that other members share their experience and wisdom without coercing other members to actually live out that advice, to which some people then become upset that other members are not taking their advice seriously, or they think something is wrong with you or that you are drunk because you are not complying.

I did see this irony, however, on these boards. The irony of members telling others to relinquish control to their addicted loved ones yet at the same time trying to control other members on these boards.

I am in AA, and I follow that Big Book suggestion that when others bother you, view them as "sick" people who need to be prayed for, which is exactly what I do.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:12 AM
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However...

Sometimes, newcomers who are still in the grips of their codependency see as "controlling" or bitterness and jadedness from SR old timers what is actually just genuine care for their safety. We aren't judging. We've just BTDT and can see disaster coming a mile away. We don't want it to happen, of course-- we'd just rather hope that we can use our own life lessons to help others.

I've found for myself, that when certain members trigger me, I need to just walk away. They will have to learn-- or not learn-- how to face their own sick, controlling, manipulative condependency the hard way, much like I did.
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Old 12-16-2014, 04:37 AM
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Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you trying to tell me I am not superwoman? That I can't fix everyone and everything? That may be true but I refuse to give up my cape. It looks good on me.


On a serious note. Thank you for the reminder. I notice my code behaviors tend to come out more when I am stressed. And this holiday season I am super stressed.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Bullfrog
I've found for myself, that when certain members trigger me, I need to just walk away.
Triggered, that's the key. Some of us on 'this side' of the equation are triggered, it seems to me, like an alcoholic or an addict would be around their DOC.

Even if I have BTDT and would sincerely hate for someone else to go through what I have gone through--I have no control over whether they choose to or not. And then I'm only causing myself more pain, stress and anxiety over someone else's decisions and actions. When all I can really do is share what worked for me, and then leave it to the other person to decide how to proceed.

We all have the right to be "wrong".

happybeingme, you are welcome to keep the cape I think it matches your eyes beautifully
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:09 AM
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I will say though. The intentions are genuine. I don't think any of us are coming from a place of meanness. Rather a lot of caring and hope that others can avoid the pain we ourselves have been through. It's just that control thing that is so hard to let go of sometimes.
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Old 12-16-2014, 05:36 AM
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The attempts at control are definitely something we as co-dependents have to give up to be healthy, and its hard!

I catch myself getting upset when people do meet up to my expectations, and I have to remind myself that 1. I should only have expectations of myself, and 2. If I need or want something I need to voice it, not expect mind reading.

SR has been such a big help for me as well!
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:05 AM
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The funny thing is that it's so easy to see this behavior in others, but not in ourselves. One of my kids can not stand the younger sibling being wrong. Doesn't matter if it's a sloppily pronounced word, a statement that isn't factually accurate, or a simple mistake. It has to be pointed out. I've torn my hair out about it -- until little sister finally said, "look -- you need to stop being a bully. I have a right to my opinion -- even if it's wrong!"

So that's our motto now, when we hear someone say something utterly stupid: "Remember, children, they have a right to their opinion -- even if it's wrong!"

And it actually has cut down on bigger kid's Correctomania.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:10 AM
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Yes, I stepped away from a couple of threads because I wouldn't say it was "triggering" me (actually, I hate that phrase), but it certainly was bringing me to a point of frustration.

There is a balance, I think, that must be struck. I think we owe it to each other to be honest, and not to encourage or give our approval to harmful actions. And some things just ARE dangerous or harmful. At the same time, once I've said it a few times and it is being flat-out rejected (as opposed to someone working to come to terms with something), there's a point where I need to detach, for EVERYONE's sake (mine, the post-er I'm frustrated with, and the rest of the group).

I also think it's important for people to understand that we all are coming from our own experiences. And sometimes something that initially doesn't seem to make sense is worth keeping an open mind about.

That's the value of a forum--the give-and-take. If you have your mind made up, and nothing will shake it, then don't muse about it or ask other people's opinions about it. If you don't agree with something, though, don't say what you don't believe for the sake of making someone feel better. Open minds and basic consideration of other people and their right to live their own lives go a long way around here in terms of making it a safe and helpful place.
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Old 12-16-2014, 06:20 AM
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I remember when my XAH was in the throes of addiction, I came here in desperation. What I was looking for was how to fix HIM. Everyone here kept telling me I could not, that I could only work on me. Wait, what?? There was nothing wrong with me...haha! I left for a time b/c I was not hearing what I wanted to hear. I later came back because I was finally ready. I was not terminally unique after all. Everyone has to hear things as they are ready.

I definitely step away from and stay out of some threads b/c it hurts me to see some people that I care about hurting themselves even deeper. Yet I know, they are not ready. And sometimes the situation is overwhelming and I just have nothing to say. That's ok too.

I think the important thing to remember is that we are here to support and encourage each other. I thank you Seren for the reminder of that. I always enjoy your thoughtful posts very very much.

Tight hugs to all. SR is a great place to be and I thank God for all of you on a regular basis.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:51 AM
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Thanks for the post about control
I work at it too

SR isn't the core of my recovery but I do enjoy it when I'm here
I also have to be careful I'm not addicted to the internet
That can be a distraction that takes me away from self and doing the steps.

The illusion of control is a baffling feature of my illness

Usually i start my morning reading pgs 86-88 of the AA Big Book but haven't done it for a while. Boy have I felt it lately. Today i read it again though and started yawning (stress was relieved) as I read the reminder that When agitated or doubtful we ASK for the right thought or action. (I have to PAUSE and do this!!!) god has to be involved.

It says We are no longer running the show.

You mean I don't have to manage the world??
What a relief!

PHEW!
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:54 PM
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Bump.

Mike
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Old 12-16-2014, 08:54 PM
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Bump.

Mike
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:00 AM
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[QUOTE=hopeful4;5079345]I remember when my XAH was in the throes of addiction, I came here in desperation. What I was looking for was how to fix HIM. Everyone here kept telling me I could not, that I could only work on me. Wait, what?? There was nothing wrong with me...haha! I left for a time b/c I was not hearing what I wanted to hear. I later came back because I was finally ready. I was not terminally unique after all. Everyone has to hear things as they are ready.

In my experience, working on myself is a priority. I cannot fix my husband, but I can offer him support and encouragement in his recovery, which is something that I am willing to do. To me, this is not managing my husband or his recovery, but merely making myself available to him as a source of support, while also still remembering to work on myself.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:12 AM
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IMO, cultural differences come into play here as well. I have never read anything I find too offensive, sarcastic yes, offensive no. There was an interview with Chris Christie (NJ governor) where the reporter asked him about his tough non-nonsense approach would play out in the midwest US. He didn't think there would be a problem, but many many political folks on a panel said that he would never be well-received in the midwest and parts of the south because of he is "rude." Folks in those places would not like his personality. NJ folks seem to love him and like his directness. It works for them, but others in different cultural areas find him offensive, go figure. You can't please all the people all the time.

Sometimes when someone is being direct it might come across as rude or controlling. It is not necessarily meant that way (at least to me). I am a "matter-of-fact" kinda gal and I prefer to both receive and give information that way. A spade is a spade. When folks are new sometimes there is A LOT of magical thinking/illogical/irrational stuff. I found it helpful to be called out on things when I was new (even though I did not like it). I have seen several folks posting over the past year who have made great strides moving from magical thinking into a more realistic place. Some of those folks were also mad at times early on (I remember a few), but they evolved and now are helping newbies and old timers with their seasoned perspectives. I find that remarkable and feel proud to have helped "pay it forward" as was done with me.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:18 AM
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love you all to bits.. at 64 years of age what have I learned you can't controll anything outside yourself.. me the Marine in me steps out every so often and kicks someone ass when needed. but that is to stop harm to a smaller person.. control I love to just sit in the back row and watch it fall apart and then get another cup of coffee. yep.. my Hubby will learn real soon how to live with out the urban comforts of utilities when they are turned off me light a candle put water in a bucket over the day. and clean the fridge out and wash it down.. him red high heels on and the look how did this happend. ekkekeekek controll just in myself please...


Originally Posted by happybeingme View Post
Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you trying to tell me I am not superwoman? That I can't fix everyone and everything? That may be true but I refuse to give up my cape. It looks good on me.


On a serious note. Thank you for the reminder. I notice my code behaviors tend to come out more when I am stressed. And this holiday season I am super stressed.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Justbreathe1980 View Post
In my experience, working on myself is a priority. I cannot fix my husband, but I can offer him support and encouragement in his recovery, which is something that I am willing to do. To me, this is not managing my husband or his recovery, but merely making myself available to him as a source of support, while also still remembering to work on myself.
Many of us have spent years doing this, and have suffered pretty severe consequences as a result of our self-sacrificing. For some of us, it is best learn to focus on ourselves and our own boundaries, and to stop worrying about trying to help partners work through their own issues.
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:46 AM
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IMO, cultural differences come into play here as well. I have never read anything I find too offensive, sarcastic yes, offensive no. There was an interview with Chris Christie (NJ governor) where the reporter asked him about his tough non-nonsense approach would play out in the midwest US. He didn't think there would be a problem, but many many political folks on a panel said that he would never be well-received in the midwest and parts of the south because of he is "rude." Folks in those places would not like his personality. NJ folks seem to love him and like his directness. It works for them, but others in different cultural areas find him offensive, go figure. You can't please all the people all the time.
I hadn't thought of it that way, MissFixIt, but I think that's a really good point. I have a job that has had a revolving door for the past five years. I was hired based on my personality, not my skills. The earlier (waaaaay more highly qualified people) who have held the job were all from the East Coast and very high-intensity energizer bunny kind of people. And they sort of alienated the people here that are the bulk of our clients. The locals called them "pushy" and "irritating" -- whereas I, being pretty slow and laid-back, listening more than I talk... my personality just seems to "fit" better with the culture of people we work with. Even though I don't have the formal education for the job. When I lived back east, it was the opposite -- I was always chastised for not being "engaging" and "lively" enough.

I guess that's another reason the Internet is amazing. We have people here from all over the world, so if I don't "get" or relate to the communication of one SR member, I can always ignore them and listen to someone I do understand.
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