amy55

Why does he do that???????

I read this many years ago. Best book I have ever read. I am/was a researcher about everything. I have a very science and math based mind. I wanted answers. What I got out of Lundy's book are there are no answers, look at the situation that you are in.

Most of the other self help books may have been good, but I used them in all the wrong ways. I used them looking for other ways or different ways to say something so that I can get my point across.

What point did I want to get across really? That I was hurt, that I was hurting. Didn't I try to say this a thousand different ways and I just always felt that I was unheard?

I'm an in no way trying to sell this book or promote this book.

I'm saying that it was an eye opener for me. To me it really meant to look at your life that you are living now. You can't change the other person. Most likely that person will never change, if that person did, most likely it would be for the worse.

At first I was disappointed in the book, I wanted it to give me hope, you know that fantasy that we always have that if I just did..............or if I just said............. that it would make a difference. What a stupid fantasy I had.

We live day in and day out with that fantasy. We want to believe. Thing is we can't change another person. We just can't do that. They need to want to change. Most don't.

Someday when I finally unpack here, I will find that book again and re read it. Until then, if anyone else has read it, how did it make you feel after reading it? For me, it was my awakening.

((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
amy

happybeingme

What is the book title?

amy55

"Why does he do that? Inside the Mind of Angry and Controlling Men"

amy55

In a way, I thought we could also talk about abuse here. The things that we really don't see happening, but they are happening.

Like you finally bought yourself a new sweater, but you sneak it into the house, Why? You are doing pretty good financially, but you need to leave it in the trunk of your car, till he left, then you sneak it in.

Or why when we have holes in our walls when they get upset, that we do not consider physical abuse, because they didn't hit me, well that's intimidation.

Can we discuss things like that?

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

amy55

Or that awful silent treatment, when they are punishing you till they get what they want, but that worked before, it will work again !!!!!

LexieCat

I'll second the recommendation! I've worked in the DV field for many, many years, and this book describes what's going on more accurately than anything I've ever read. Lundy is not only extremely knowledgeable, having studied and worked with abusive men for many years, he is one of the best communicators I've ever run across. His books--even the more heavy-duty ones written for professionals rather than popular audiences--are highly readable and fascinating.

I think anyone who is trying to figure out what is wrong in a relationship--especially stuff that doesn't seem to be accounted for by alcoholism alone--should read it and see if the descriptions ring any bells.

One of his basic premises is that an abusive man is abusive NOT because of the way his partner behaves, or because of any intrinsic mental illness on the abuser's part, but because it BENEFITS him to behave that way. There is a payoff for it, from their perspective. And most abusive men behave that way ONLY with an intimate partner--everyone else in the world might think he's a prince. They often successfully manipulate therapists, police, lawyers, and judges (unless, of course, those professionals have been trained to recognize what's going on). And, because it truly ISN'T you--it's him--he is likely to behave exactly the same way with the next victim.

Very, very eye-opening. Can't recommend it highly enough.

LexieCat

BTW, he also has some great resources at his website: Lundy Bancroft | Healing & Prevention| Domestic Abuse & Custody

amy55

I second what Lexie said. They can be so good with everyone else, because in most cases the abuser knows how to behave with others. He is the sweetest then, then you go home and he verbally, emotionally or physically abuses you.

So from seeing that, do you see how they can actually control themselves, in most cases.

Most do fear the law, but they have you so scared, so isolated, so fearful of rejection and abandonment, that they already know they have control over you.

Once you start to get stronger, they up the abuse, if you leave and come back, they up the abuse, what they were doing then wasn't enough, you left and came back, then need to make sure you don't leave again.

And yes, I have seen the remorse and the pitiful eyes that they show, I have also seen that same person turn into a monster with shark eyes, dead as dead can be,, and look right through me like I wasn't even there, and that person would attack me like I wasn't even a human.

amy55

I think Lexie that you had a really good response to alcoholism and abuse, and you clarified abuse from alcoholism, just the not there type of person, and the controlling, manipulative type of abuse. If you can remember that, perhaps can you re post that here.

amy

Katchie

Ok...THAT comment scares the crud out of me, but not because of my husband. My eldest adopted son treats ME that way. He is quite the charmer to everyone outside the home, but when my AH leaves out of sight, he can be a terror. No one in my family has ever seen him act that way either because he reserves it for me. My AH has never seen the circus I've lived with when he left the home. Sometimes my son will give me "that look" when his dads head is turned. Its real creepy I hate to say. I worry about future female relationships for him. And yes, he has been to a psychiatrist before and I was told that children like him eventually end up in jail because he doesn't have the ability to reason along with a host of other academic challenges. He isn't ******** so doesn't qualify for special schools or even LDS classes in public schools. It's a long list of issues that don't have a way to reverse. Brain balance helped along with nutritional changes, but this hasn't cured all. I have literally been afraid to be alone with him on occasion. Here is what I can count on: if something is going wrong in his life unrelated to me, I will punish me for whatever it is verbally and has on occasion threatened violence. He has been this way since we adopted at age 6. I hate to say it but I can't wait until he graduates.

amy55

I never read this book, not going thru this right now, I divorced when my kids were older, but he turned them away from me. Told them I was a crazy person, did the crying act with them, and how much he loved me, and I was so afraid to get stuff from my house, so he asked my daughter so nicely if she could store it for me.
When I did get my own house, after he turned the kids away from me, I asked him about the furniture. He told me he threw it all away.

I'm still working on getting things back to normal between me and my children. I have no idea of how he cried to them, and what awful things he said about me.

amy

LexieCat

I don't know about your son, I'm not a mental health expert. But I have seen boys act as surrogate abusers on behalf of their dads. I had one victim who was horribly burned by her husband and her teenage son (only kid dad treated well--daughters weren't allowed to eat with parents and were emotionally/verbally abused by him) threatened to team up with dad and come after her. He straightened out--he was only 17 at the time and very confused--but it's scary to see.

amy55

Katchie, this also frightens me. I worked for Social Security and took claims for Disability Benefits. One time someone came in with almost the same situation as yours. There was no parental bonding. That child never had empathy, but could act like society wanted him to when the situation called for it. I can go more in depth with you on that, but perhaps PM might be better.

(((((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))))

amy

LexieCat

I think what you mean is what I said about alcoholism being a separate issue from abuse. Abusive men CAN be alcoholics, and some alcoholics ARE abusers, but one doesn't cause the other. Some alcoholics can behave in very hurtful ways because of their addiction, but that's a different thing from abuse in the sense of its being part of their character. Men who are mean or hostile because they are protecting their addiction might behave in ways that feel very abusive, indeed, to the partner on the receiving end, but if such an alcoholic gets sober (particularly if working a good program of recovery), that behavior stops.

OTOH, if the alcoholic is truly an abuser, getting sober might just make him a more COMPETENT and in-control abuser.

Of course, regardless of whether someone is an "abuser" or someone who just gets mean and hostile when he drinks, no one should have to subject herself to that. From the standpoint of protecting yourself, it doesn't really matter where the abusive behavior comes from--whether it's a result of the drinking or whether it's in the other person's nature. Everyone deserves to be safe, and anyone who harms someone else, drunk or sober, should be held accountable for that behavior.

amy55

Thanks, that was it.

amy

Bullfrog

That is simply THE best book on abuse. Lundy gets it.

amy55

Sometimes what I found here was a lot of what I felt. I just wanted to lurk and not speak, because I became afraid to speak. I don't know why, perhaps I was afraid to accept that my ex was abusive. Verbally, emotionally, physically, financially, sexually, spiritually, etc, etc. I wanted to believe that he really loved me. He told me that he did so many times, and I tried to use that to erase the memory of him calling me names, saying to me how can anyone love you, just look at you, how can anyone love that.
.
I know they were just words, but they cut me to the soul.

I remember the times, that (even without numbing myself with beer) that I would just be totally numb. I remember feeling like he sucked the life out of me and I had no more to give anyone, until I got a refill. I told him that. Big mistake. I don't think I even want to tell you what his reply was.

I guess I want to say that for all the people here that are afraid to address this, and for all the lurkers just reading here, we really do understand.

and a big ((((((((((((hugs))))))))))))
to all of you
amy

LexieCat

One of the many insightful observations in this book is that he defines a good batterers' intervention program as one that keeps the victim "in the loop"--consulting her about what is happening at home, what tactics the abuser uses, the extent to which there is any improvement over the course of treatment, etc. It's interesting to note that he believes that success is likely ONLY if the abuser is highly committed to change, is involved in a quality program, and remains involved for at least TWO YEARS. This isn't a quick fix, and just as alcoholics are unlikely to stay sober unless they are highly committed and working hard to change, the same is true of an abuser.

wanttobehealthy

My xah is in a court ordered batterers class due to his assaulting me. I've not once spoken to the course instructor yet xah has told me multiple times what his instructors opinion of me is...

I often think of exactly what you've said LexieCat in that good batterers programs seek into from the victim.

LexieCat

From the book: