felt bad
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felt bad
Just got back from an AA meeting. Ran into a guy I haven't seen in a while. As usual he asked me for a ride. Found out in the past that the ride home is just the beginning. By the time I get him home, he will ask for cigs and money. Every time I ever saw him, the same thing would happen. Unfortunately gave him my number a long time ago. He would call a lot, always asking for something, never asking how I'm doing. Anyway, I told him I don't drive people around anymore. He asked me why and I told him I got tired of being taken advantage of. This was only one person of many that did the same thing. I also told him I also got tired of these same people actually getting mad at me when I really couldn't help them.
As I turned around to go to the AA meeting, a guy that I loaned money to a few years ago was there. Never paid me back. I'm sure he heard everything I said. He just looked at me and said nothing.
The first guy has three years of sobriety. The second guy has over seven years. Ironically, the guy I loaned money to talked about the need to be honest at a meeting last week.
I feel bad about this because I am usually willing to help people out, but now have to be a person I'm not used to being.
I really don't care about the money, rides, etc. What bothers me is the lack of honesty and trust.
I'd bring this up at a meeting, but I doubt I'd get much support on this issue. I would expect to hear things about giving freely and not being so self-centered.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just had to get this off my chest. John
As I turned around to go to the AA meeting, a guy that I loaned money to a few years ago was there. Never paid me back. I'm sure he heard everything I said. He just looked at me and said nothing.
The first guy has three years of sobriety. The second guy has over seven years. Ironically, the guy I loaned money to talked about the need to be honest at a meeting last week.
I feel bad about this because I am usually willing to help people out, but now have to be a person I'm not used to being.
I really don't care about the money, rides, etc. What bothers me is the lack of honesty and trust.
I'd bring this up at a meeting, but I doubt I'd get much support on this issue. I would expect to hear things about giving freely and not being so self-centered.
Anyway, sorry for the long post. Just had to get this off my chest. John
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I told him I don't drive people around anymore. He asked me why and I told him I got tired of being taken advantage of. This was only one person of many that did the same thing. I also told him I also got tired of these same people actually getting mad at me when I really couldn't help them.
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Although its very noble for you to want to help out, it sounds like these people are treating you like a tool. You don't need to be a tool, because eventually there will be others to come knocking on your door. We are all adults, and these people sound like they need to start helping themselves. Take care of John.
Bunnez
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Felt both guilty and angry. Brought up some old stuff I thought I was over with, but I guess not. Really want to just say screw it, pick something up at the liquor store, go home get numb. But I'm home now and just ate something.
I've decided I'd rather deal with the guilt feelings than the negative feelings and resentments I get when I get used. The guilty feeling go away much faster. John
I've decided I'd rather deal with the guilt feelings than the negative feelings and resentments I get when I get used. The guilty feeling go away much faster. John
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Nothing to feel guilty about. Those are grown men who might be paying the price for their previous actions whether they lost their driving license or are financially in the hole with no family members willing to help out.
You do not owe them anything. Whether you chose to help out or not is up to you and you are under absolutely no obligations to do so.
You do not owe them anything. Whether you chose to help out or not is up to you and you are under absolutely no obligations to do so.
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Originally Posted by Carlotta 
Nothing to feel guilty about. Those are grown men who might be paying the price for their previous actions whether they lost their driving license or are financially in the hole with no family members willing to help out.
You do not owe them anything. Whether you chose to help out or not is up to you and you are under absolutely no obligations to do so.
You do not owe them anything. Whether you chose to help out or not is up to you and you are under absolutely no obligations to do so.
Actually, the guy I loaned the money to did me a big favor. I haven't offered to help anybody else since then, no matter how sad their story is. Hate to turn my back on people but unfortunately, I'm not a good judge of character, and some people are really good at working the room and saying all the right things. John
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I don't think you did anything in what you describe that you need to feel bad for. You spoke your truth - mostly.
I suppose what would have made it even more your truth would have been if you'd kept it to THIS guy. Your response to him was characterized broadly as being about 'people' - and often I think we do this to avoid the discomfort of conflict in the real reasons.
From what you shared, the REAL reason you didn't want to offer HIM the ride is that you were concerned HE would take advantage of you.
So maybe an even more sincere response would be to ask him to step away with you one-on-one and said "Listen - I'm happy to give you a ride, but I feel uncomfortable when that turns into requests for money, cigarettes, and other needs. I need to share this with you because it's my truth. I'll give you a ride, but please keep it at that, ok?".
In doing so - you are sincere, you honor your truth, you honor HIM by being sincere and truthful, you don't risk feeling 'bad' about your the impact of your words on others and you get it right out there. Maybe it offends the guy - but if so, then it's his issue and you can walk away with clear conscience because you were honorable.
I suppose what would have made it even more your truth would have been if you'd kept it to THIS guy. Your response to him was characterized broadly as being about 'people' - and often I think we do this to avoid the discomfort of conflict in the real reasons.
From what you shared, the REAL reason you didn't want to offer HIM the ride is that you were concerned HE would take advantage of you.
So maybe an even more sincere response would be to ask him to step away with you one-on-one and said "Listen - I'm happy to give you a ride, but I feel uncomfortable when that turns into requests for money, cigarettes, and other needs. I need to share this with you because it's my truth. I'll give you a ride, but please keep it at that, ok?".
In doing so - you are sincere, you honor your truth, you honor HIM by being sincere and truthful, you don't risk feeling 'bad' about your the impact of your words on others and you get it right out there. Maybe it offends the guy - but if so, then it's his issue and you can walk away with clear conscience because you were honorable.
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I had to stop "helping" in ways that would cause me hardship. If someone needs help once, I may be willing to help if I can. If they keep needing help, I'm not really helping them if I'm doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.
Please don't feel guilty. No one will remember it tomorrow.
Please don't feel guilty. No one will remember it tomorrow.
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No is a complete sentence and you don't need to explain yourself and apologize for not doing someone a favor.
You did good and avoided building another resentment (which could easily lead to a drink).
As you learn to say no and set up boundaries you will get more comfortable asserting yourself
You did good and avoided building another resentment (which could easily lead to a drink).
As you learn to say no and set up boundaries you will get more comfortable asserting yourself
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I'm chiming in to add my voice to the crowd. I think you did well turning the guy down and telling him why. No one likes to be used and it does create resentment. Only you are making you feel guilty so let it go. They are not going to lose sleep or not eat or not get to where they want to go if you don't give them what they want. They will simply move on to someone else and ask until they get what they want.
I see this with beggars near my office all the time. One guy always looks so, so dejected. Kneels on the sidewalk in front of people. I'm hungry. I have no place to stay. Once when I was watching him he stopped in mid plea, turned his back on the couple he was approaching, and answered his cell phone, engaged in a conversation and then went back to begging. Don't feel guilty.
I see this with beggars near my office all the time. One guy always looks so, so dejected. Kneels on the sidewalk in front of people. I'm hungry. I have no place to stay. Once when I was watching him he stopped in mid plea, turned his back on the couple he was approaching, and answered his cell phone, engaged in a conversation and then went back to begging. Don't feel guilty.
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after many years of AA attendance I have found that
it's best to not lend money
if someone in AA ask to borrow 20 dollars from me
I will just give them a 5 and tell them they don't need to pay back it's a gift
I hate knowing that people owe me money (takes up brain space)
giving ones rides -- I avoid this whenever possible
sorry I'm not going in that direction
MM
it's best to not lend money
if someone in AA ask to borrow 20 dollars from me
I will just give them a 5 and tell them they don't need to pay back it's a gift
I hate knowing that people owe me money (takes up brain space)
giving ones rides -- I avoid this whenever possible
sorry I'm not going in that direction
MM
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Mountainmanbob,
Being a slow learner, it took me a while to understand what you just posted. Just because someone has years in the program, knows the 12 steps backwards and forwards and can recite parts of the BB doesn't mean they are honest and truly practice what they preach. Saying no is hard for me but I'm sure with practice, it will get easier. John
Being a slow learner, it took me a while to understand what you just posted. Just because someone has years in the program, knows the 12 steps backwards and forwards and can recite parts of the BB doesn't mean they are honest and truly practice what they preach. Saying no is hard for me but I'm sure with practice, it will get easier. John
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Being "taken advantage of" in its many, many permutations, is a theme that has been central throughout my life. I tend toward kindness, and just have that particularly accessible face that promotes people asking for support. I am the strong one. Even in my family, that is my role, and I am called upon to give (whether that be money or support words or time and concern) but seldom receive support in return.
I am learning to set boundaries, to hold those boundaries, to see when it is happening in friendships, etc. But even as one sets and holds those boundaries, it is difficult not to feel "sorry for oneself" that there is even a need to do that, that for whatever reason the people in my life (whether chosen or given) do not give back to me reciprocally.
One thing I'm noticing in sobriety is that this does have a lot to do with the choosing. There are plenty of people I know through my work and through my community involvements who are givers - generous with their time, money, and support. Because of my own "less than" issues (primarily around my history as addict/alcoholic) these are not the folks I pursue friendships with - as a matter of fact I actively block those friendships - somehow preferring to populate my life with damaged and struggling people instead. I recognize that this is a self-esteem issue, and one which is very dangerous to me, because while I may feel more comfortable and accepted initially, the differential in need and capacity ends up hurting my feelings and ending the relationship anyway.
This is probably one of the largest core themes that I have to understand and transcend to stay sober.
I'm having two interesting elements in this right now in my life. First, I started chemo and have been very open with folks about it, and am now waiting and watching and observing who in my life (whether a close friend or light acquaintance) is actually offering support. This is unique for me, because I seldom share any weakness or need, and so most folks don't have an opportunity to offer me help or support. Anyway, I've had some startling revelations in who I can and can't count on, and am trying to integrate that information.
Secondly, I am in a period of celibacy (also very unusual for me). Often, the critical support people in my life are the fellas, and while they often begin as friends, it careens into the physical and all the signals of helper and helped, friend or lover, obligation to help, etc., get tangled. I'm practicing the "no" to relationship now, and - wow! - some of those friendships just flee when the possibility of sexuality is off the table. Uber-disappointing, but very good information! I'm getting to see people's selfishness before I've already thrown myself into the snuggle. I know, I know - everyone else already knows to do that, but it is a new learning for me.
In some ways, all this awareness, boundary setting, and truth-seeing is making me more cynical and self-protected, but I think that is simply a stage in this growth.
I will say that after many negative experiences with AA "users", and especially the fellas and their "hidden intentions," I would advise to be very cautious with trust inside the fellowship. I will no longer loan money under any circumstances (I once had a sponsor borrow a substantial sum from me and disappear!!), nor will I do "friendly coffees" with male AAs (or meet them outside meetings for any reason, or give them my phone number - I have been frighteningly stalked), nor do I let anyone except a few women with substantial sobriety know where I live.
That may sound like way too much in terms of boundaries, but I have had multiple disturbing experiences which called them into place. My balanced place is that I have AA relationships inside the AA rooms, and that is where they stay.
I am learning to set boundaries, to hold those boundaries, to see when it is happening in friendships, etc. But even as one sets and holds those boundaries, it is difficult not to feel "sorry for oneself" that there is even a need to do that, that for whatever reason the people in my life (whether chosen or given) do not give back to me reciprocally.
One thing I'm noticing in sobriety is that this does have a lot to do with the choosing. There are plenty of people I know through my work and through my community involvements who are givers - generous with their time, money, and support. Because of my own "less than" issues (primarily around my history as addict/alcoholic) these are not the folks I pursue friendships with - as a matter of fact I actively block those friendships - somehow preferring to populate my life with damaged and struggling people instead. I recognize that this is a self-esteem issue, and one which is very dangerous to me, because while I may feel more comfortable and accepted initially, the differential in need and capacity ends up hurting my feelings and ending the relationship anyway.
This is probably one of the largest core themes that I have to understand and transcend to stay sober.
I'm having two interesting elements in this right now in my life. First, I started chemo and have been very open with folks about it, and am now waiting and watching and observing who in my life (whether a close friend or light acquaintance) is actually offering support. This is unique for me, because I seldom share any weakness or need, and so most folks don't have an opportunity to offer me help or support. Anyway, I've had some startling revelations in who I can and can't count on, and am trying to integrate that information.
Secondly, I am in a period of celibacy (also very unusual for me). Often, the critical support people in my life are the fellas, and while they often begin as friends, it careens into the physical and all the signals of helper and helped, friend or lover, obligation to help, etc., get tangled. I'm practicing the "no" to relationship now, and - wow! - some of those friendships just flee when the possibility of sexuality is off the table. Uber-disappointing, but very good information! I'm getting to see people's selfishness before I've already thrown myself into the snuggle. I know, I know - everyone else already knows to do that, but it is a new learning for me.
In some ways, all this awareness, boundary setting, and truth-seeing is making me more cynical and self-protected, but I think that is simply a stage in this growth.
I will say that after many negative experiences with AA "users", and especially the fellas and their "hidden intentions," I would advise to be very cautious with trust inside the fellowship. I will no longer loan money under any circumstances (I once had a sponsor borrow a substantial sum from me and disappear!!), nor will I do "friendly coffees" with male AAs (or meet them outside meetings for any reason, or give them my phone number - I have been frighteningly stalked), nor do I let anyone except a few women with substantial sobriety know where I live.
That may sound like way too much in terms of boundaries, but I have had multiple disturbing experiences which called them into place. My balanced place is that I have AA relationships inside the AA rooms, and that is where they stay.
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Originally Posted by 2muchpain
Every time I ever saw him, the same thing would happen. Unfortunately gave him my number a long time ago. He would call a lot, always asking for something, never asking how I'm doing. I got tired of being taken advantage of. This was only one person of many that did the same thing. I also told him I also got tired of these same people actually getting mad at me when I really couldn't help them.
As I turned around to go to the AA meeting, a guy that I loaned money to a few years ago was there. Never paid me back.
As I turned around to go to the AA meeting, a guy that I loaned money to a few years ago was there. Never paid me back.
People are often messengers...especially when the same theme is repeated over and over and over...
Like my friend Heartcore eloquently addresses, I too am of the mind this is all about boundaries.
This is not about them. This is about you.
You are troubled that these folks don't ...ask how you are doing?
Is that the compensation for the rides and cigarettes and money?
Please do not continue to give away what you cannot afford to give...freely. Just say no.
You are allowed to say no 2much. We don't need to give be thought of as nice or kind or approved of.
You are fantastic just the way you are.
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Nuudawn,
You and Heartcore pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I never thought of the compensation for helping others out was a how are you doing?
You might be right, but I just thought that's what people do with people they know, whether they helped them out or not. Most of my willingness to help people out was a long time ago, when I was much more outgoing and friendly, and yes, hoping to make friends along the way. I wasn't trying to "buy" friends, I just thought it was the right thing to do. I've done the same thing outside of the meetings, so I guess it's just my nature. When faced with a situation, I often ask myself is it the right thing to do, AND is it the smart thing to do. In this situation, it might of been the right thing, but it wasn't the smart thing. Lessoned learned.
Thanks, John
You and Heartcore pretty much hit the nail on the head.
I never thought of the compensation for helping others out was a how are you doing?
You might be right, but I just thought that's what people do with people they know, whether they helped them out or not. Most of my willingness to help people out was a long time ago, when I was much more outgoing and friendly, and yes, hoping to make friends along the way. I wasn't trying to "buy" friends, I just thought it was the right thing to do. I've done the same thing outside of the meetings, so I guess it's just my nature. When faced with a situation, I often ask myself is it the right thing to do, AND is it the smart thing to do. In this situation, it might of been the right thing, but it wasn't the smart thing. Lessoned learned.
Thanks, John
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