how?

Old 12-02-2014, 06:09 AM
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how?

it's like i'm standing on shore watching him drown and making a conscious decision not to help. as a parent how do we do this without losing a part of our soul?
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:17 AM
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Oh sweetie, I don't know. My heart just broke reading your post. Much love and many hugs coming your way.

XXX
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:26 AM
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I think we do lose a little bit of it, honestly. Heartbreak, loss, and all that we hoped we could manifest for our children seems impossible to reach when addiction is involved. My heart and prayers go out to you, Lovenjoy. Do whatever you do to keep centered and steady today. We are here for you.
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:28 AM
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It's so sad, I'm sorry. Are you involved in Nar-Anon or Al-Anon or any support group? The 12 steps help you detach from your son's addiction with love and focus on finding your own peace. I don't know how parents do it, but they DO.
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:17 AM
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My heart breaks for you too....I've stood watched, waited. I've rescued but learned that I can only rescue me.

Maybe in your image place a rescue raft within his reach....AA, NA, or any of the other programs and imagine that all he has to do is to reach out and grab it, hold it tight....and imagine that he can't or won't for what ever reason....he's not afraid yet, not tired yet, or can't see the raft or the danger.

Prayers for strength,

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Old 12-02-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Lovenjoy View Post
it's like i'm standing on shore watching him drown and making a conscious decision not to help. as a parent how do we do this without losing a part of our soul?
You don't. Standing back and watching your child struggling like that is an incredibly difficult thing to do. It goes against every paternal/maternal instinct you have.

But the thing about trying to rescue someone who's drowning is they'll pull you down with them if you're not careful.

So sorry that you're having a hard time.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:49 AM
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oh i feel your pain, we all do. when our children are hurting we hurt , there is no escape. we can try to help ourselves by reaching out for help from others. i have gained so much from families anonymous and this site but the truth is there is no way of replacing a part of our soul that has been taken so harshly. I don't think the pain ever leaves us, but staying in just the moment and not thinking about the what ifs makes it more tolerable. when the addict lives with you as mine does the chaos is constant and it is hard to separate. you have to keep reminding yourself that you offered and given everything possible. we cannot love them into doing the right thing. some addicts do not have bottoms and that"s something i am coming to realize. so many feelings flood us at times, anger , guilt, resentment, severe depression and many here have found ultimately acceptance- prayers for you, go to any meeting you can so you can be face to face with others who can pull you through when you are in the deepest of despair. I struggle everyday to hang on too.
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Old 12-02-2014, 08:59 AM
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Lovenjoy...my heart is breaking for you and with you today. Am in the same situation except that my 3rd addict went MIA...and I can no longer do what I did for the previous 2 (who are doing well now and in complete denial about their issues...which makes it even harder for me...as I still have emotions to process from those years). Just do you best...I am able to make it to 1 naranon meeting a week and went to the doctor yesterday and was finally able to express my deeper need for help than I have been able to for many years...and the doctor referred me to a program that is deeper than outpatient therapy. Am thanking God for this as I am at the end of my rope...or as the doctor said...hitting my codependency bottom. The thing is...I know that I have to do what I can do for me...or I will be lost. So...please take care of yourself and try to find support in others who understand (there are many here who do and the alanon and naranon meetings are helpful). I have lost the recovery that I had with my previous 2 addicts over the past 19 years...and with this 3rd one...just barely hanging on...so know that you are in good company...and know that you must take care of you...(& this from someone who is struggling to do so)--it is like being a lifeguard (was this in high school)--we are trained that we cannot let the drowning person pull us under the water in their desperation because then we, too, will drown...and so from the bottom of my heart...just sending prayers and care to you. You can do this...and as a fellow parent...I know that we have to...even when we don't know how or what to do. Our souls need to be entrusted to God along with our addicts...and it is no easy feat...knowing the answer doesn't mean that I know how. God Bless.
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Old 12-02-2014, 09:24 AM
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i know only to well what its like to sit and watch a child die right in front of my own eyes and there was nothing i could of done to save them,
my child died of cancer and was just 16
i had to give up work to be with him 24 / 7 we had to manage on very little money coming in as i am a single parent who partner has never paid a single penny for our kids upkeep as she has nothing herself as she is a drinker and is living with another drunk so it lost in that lifestyle at the present

in just 8 short months my son went from a healthy kids who had everything to live for, to just a skeleton who couldnt eat or drink anything and was in constant pain living off morhpine to keep him out of pain

i even had huge rows with the drs as they couldnt increase my sons morhpine to keep him asleep and out of pain as they were scared they would kill him ???

so he had to die slowly and painfully without even being able to take a simple drink of water to quench his thirst

i honesty wanted him to die as quckly as he could as it was just so hearbreaking to watch him suffer like he was doing
there was no help there for him he had no options of trying to turn his life around as the cancer didnt give him any chance

all i know is i did what ever i could to try to ease his suffering even going out late at nights to the local cinemas as its the only place that sold slush drinks he could sip them via a straw to get some sort of liquid inside of him

he has been dead for 2 years now and there isnt a single moment i dont wish he was still here or his siblings wish he was still here

so i know only full to well how it is to watch a child die before the eyes so all i can say to you is be there for them and help them all you can as kids are so precious

i know many people would say you have to cut them loose and let them fall hard and i understand that as its what had to happen for me when i had my own problem with the drink i had to lose it all and end up on my own before i woke up and took some action

but i know for parent who loves there kids its never going to happen well certainly not for me as i couldn't let my kids suffer the way i did if i had the power to help them

if i could of given my own life so my son would still be here today i would of done so

its that feeling of being so helpless and powerless that hurts as there is nothing we can do other than just be there

i even prayed to a god for help everyone i knew was praying for him as there was nothing else anyone else could do either

all we had was a faint chance of hope but in the end there was nothing in the world or anywere that could change the outcome

my son although was so scared of dying and full of fear and begged at times that he just wants to live and please somoene help him which broke my heart even more as i couldnt even put my arms around him and tell him its all going to be ok as for him it wasnt all going to be ok

its just a nightmare for any parent to watch a child die i can only hope your child gets there act together and take full advantage of the help out there for them

i feel it for all parents who are stuck in that nightmare world of watching helpless, or clinging on to hope
for me that side of things is over and i have instead got to live life without him, xmas is fast coming up and in our home its going to be like morge instead of all the excitement and fun that used to go on

it will be the 3rd xmas this year i go and place a present on my sons grave along with his siblings all we would want for xmas is for him to still be with us

so l hope no others have to end up in my postion but sadly they do as everyday dam day a child is dying from something or other.
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Old 12-02-2014, 10:41 AM
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desypete...thank you for sharing...it takes a lot of courage to be able to share your pain so very bluntly and directly...I know for myself...it took me 8 years of trying to just carry on and get past my son's passing before I fell apart and was able to start dealing with my own life...I was so tangled up in trying to make sure that my family didn't go down for the count in any of the ways that are consequences of child death in some families...and worked myself into burnout...then started work. It has been non-stop crisis ever since...and I have tried to continue working on my own self as best as possible...so it is good to know that you have alanon...have found that my alanon program works for all kinds of personal change...not just alcoholism and have used all of the program techniques I could to keep on going. With 3rd addict and adult children all moving on now...(I now realize that in our anxiety to keep family going and with latin american culture of husband)--we too created an enmeshed family...and with my 3rd addict and absolutely being cut off by adult children in my own family as my codependency again reared it's ugly head...it shows in my face...my voice...the stress that winds my body up as tight as a overscrewed bolt--it is terrible...and they can't/won't handle it so cut me off and I went back into therapy to start re-setting boundaries...told by therapist that they are selfish and self absorbed and I am again in emotional burnout...and needing medical care...and we are really at a low point...but different problems...same theme...i am living in the present which is not very hopeful...and have come to realize that the rest of my family are all living in different places...and that although I hear what they say; I listen (some of the work I did in therapy based on feedback provided years ago when family first started to have problems)--they don't remember what they have said to me in emotion and so I am working to deepen my ability to not react to their emoting or emotional judgments of me...and today I know that somehow/somewhere I got turned into the target for the ills of my immediate family--so am shutting up and not talking anymore.

In any case...the 2nd daughter got clean and sober for crystal meth when she got pregnant and didn't drink...while pregnant and now the girls are 9 and doing well with her mothering. Her resentment and anger and toxic blame for me haven't changed...and I have had to set a boundary about seeing her or the girls unless she treats me with a little more respect...it has been very hard...because she truly believes that she turned herself around (which from a substance abuse pt of view is true)--but the fact that she totally blames me for all the interventions is heartbreaking and her older sister enables...and I can see they are not awake...and I no longer try to wake them up (fairly recently)--because they all get mad and band together to judge me (in all the ways they can--and I have grown weak again.

So...I started seeing therapists again...and in codependency therapy for the last few months and giving all my efforts to continue...told that it is not uncommon for the stronger parent to get turned on by kids (not 100% either--but not uncommon) as they don't deal with their same issues...and as of yesterday was able to admit that I need help and to really ask for it...it has always been hard for me to ask for help...but I have done the above...because I knew I wasn't strong enough...only God (my HP) was strong enough...but right now just clinging to prayer, reading...trying to meditate...and trying to stay present...and I guess my lengthy posts on here are what might be journaling...but it is hard to write to myself. Lots of feelings...I have hit another bottom--have been unraveling since I lost the job.

So, long story short...my 2 previous addicts only got better when they left home...and I did suffer through each period...but had younger children (& grandchildren too) to keep me distracted. With this one...MIA for 5 months...she left in great anger and fury with me (& went with her sisters although I wasn't informed until after that didn't work out...I was trying to hold on to job...was desperately trying to hold my boundaries and not go looking for her...doing some service in a parents of addicts group and work with a therapist....but so emotionally stressed and down that I just kept getting more and more tightly wound...and more needing some approval and then I showed some anger...and was fired...

I know that I was unable to let go of my previous two addicts until they kind of turned around...can't really explain it...although first was out of the house...she started to act better (she had run away at 18--before her senior year in high school and that was when the world came crashing down for me)--she was about 24 or 25 which someone had told me was the age of reason...and then went on to nursing school...had a baby and is dealing with her life.

2nd left 4 days before her 18th birthday after her father (in south america...there is NO drug addict in a decent family--only secrets--they probably don't even have AA there...or it isn't very well developed) and I finally, after 5 years of working together in family/marital therapy...and in our rehab group...were informed that her pee test was dirty (first time to find in 4 years of trying) and we went to the police department and turned her in for grand felony theft which we also discovered after the fact...but had made an agreement to forgive if she would stop using...in the 3 weeks between her last rehab and her 18th birthday (& in our prayers to catch her before age 18 for more lenient minor laws)--and then she moved out and after a year...moved back in...she has always been enmeshed with Dad (from little--she was at a very vulnerable age (4) when our son passed...and I went out of our way to make sure that all the potential long-term consequences of child death were handled over the course of the years...although will admit didn't really understand all the psychologists that I had her see...because I, myself, was in such denial from childhood.

Then I started to help us plan to go to Chile (& had just enough money left to make sure she graduated)--she turned around except for alcohol...and we enjoyed the girls...for the 6 years they lived with us...and we had a plan...and then we went to Chile and everything fell apart...and it is too hard to talk about...but since then...I feel like I have been 'rising to the energy required' to go on, get out...to figure out how to restart our lives...to do the right thing...there has been a lot of awareness that I didn't have before and as a person who has always framed things according to family needs...as a mother with grown children (unfortunately having to finally accept that my 22 year old active heroin addict is an adult--something I didn't do with 2nd child...and now I wonder if it was the wrong thing...and if I, in wanting to do the write thing by all my family...set the environment for the third daughter to use...and I cling to the 3 C's right now...because that thought pattern is not a good one...it is like the one with my mother...even when I didn't know as much about codependency as I know now...I knew that with my mother...from young...there was no 'winning for losing' ever...and I made that up...and have processed much over time as I started (with my son's death) to work to survive and thrive over the rest of my life...doing the things I can...and to make my contribution towards making it...more than my share, if possible.

So...in the course of 19 years...or 24...I am back down again. I truly believe that letting my daughter go was the last chance I could give her...but I don't know...nobody does...I do know that we tried 5 more times last year as different parts of a family to get her into rehab...and all 5 times failed...we used the tough love and alanon techniques we learned with the others...we tried and tried...and now I have gone down for the energy count...I literally do not know how to think, I have no more good 'ideas' and I have no more energy.

The doctor yesterday told me it is good that I have stopped sugarcoating (told her that...only the 2nd time I have said that to anyone so it is new...maybe positive) because when I sugarcoat...she said people will believe me...and I have a natural smile with all...and I truly care about others...probably more than about myself...but I always try to encourage and be there for others...and now I need to ask for help for me...and so I have posted a novel...I am standing firm on my daughter's no contact...because I have finally awakened to how people react to me when I am in codependency mode and trying to 'do something' to support my loved one...and there have been so many...I am a hot mess...and yet I am working this program and I will continue to do so. The posting gives me one outlet...I am not able to talk to family and with the trip to Chile...and my daughters' relapse and the family chaos of everyone trying to help her and then giving up (I'm ok with that now...wasn't at first)--and some financial/roof over my head things that didn't work out as I believed they would...and my fear of going homeless now...I am just trying to be present...to the pain...and I am praying...and reading on this site...and I know from the other posts here I am a wreck...but I need to post...I do know that processing emotions is not easy for me...I have always been perceived as 'strong' and a 'problem solver' but those things do not apply to me...and I hate to hear them. I simply believe that there is a God who is more powerful than me...and that when I can't...there is a God that can...and this I believed before I every had my first energy drain after dad died...

I know that I must get up and do what I need for me...don't know what that might be but trying to work on thinking through that when I need to do something and that is helping me to deal with the decision to use my resources to pay health care premiums to get the help I need...and to try to take one minute at a time...and to take a break from some of the websites when I get too emotionally triggered (which I do...it is so painful to read so much on the websites) and to post when I need to...and to feel grateful that my two oldest daughters are on their own and self sufficient in the ways that they need to be for their ages...and not to feel sorry for the consequences of their own poor choices...both single moms...who tried to partner with their addict or non financially performing (emotionally unavailable) fathers...and who are working through those things...each in their own way. I am working to let go of realizing that my 2nd daughter may not forgive me for a long long time as she chose not to deal with her own issues through doing her own recovery...but will blame me...and that my oldest daughter loves me...but all are more focused on getting us to watch their children when they are working or (in 2nds case) has a date--and when things go wrong...I have become the poster child because I am crying and down for the count.

I will start a new program on Wednesday with more support from the therapeutic community. I need help. The therapist yesterday (it was a God moment as the one I usually see who is very head oriented (like me)--and so I speak from my head and intellectualize and sugarcoat and downplay what is going on for me...because I am just not that aware in the moment of getting help) had called in sick, my husband drove me...he is good with the grounded practical support things like that and when the man at the desk asked if I needed to see someone else...I was saying...no...I can wait...but my husband said yes...so I said yes...and with the new therapist....I was able to reach down and tell her I was a complete mess and that I need help and that I am unraveling with the loss of this last job the last straw that broke the camel's back on a lifelong pattern of behavior for me with regard to others and myself. When I was done...she referred me to another program...and told me I had to tell my pdoc the same thing...it is hard to tell him as he is very intellectual as well and I find myself pleasing him with my intellectual strength and innovative thoughts...but none of that is helping me deal here.

I do want you all to know that I don't blame any of the people I have talked about above...when I lost my son...I was taught and have continued to practice the process of forgiveness and I have (as far as I know and can tell over many years) gotten to the point of forgiving them before releasing in love...for some reason that is the way the process works for me. Grieving and forgiveness are both almost the same processes and I have had a lot of practice at both.

I have also grown in coming awake to how easily manipulable I can be over the years...and started to break with people who manipulated me in certain ways...came awake through friends rather than family...but I also realized within the past 2 years that I am manipulable period...and need to strengthen that boundary.

Thank you all for being here...there are no answers...not for me today...but I am praying it all over to the Lord every day and every minute. Writing it down has always helped it get out of my head...but if I broke any rules of the forum please let me know and I will try to find another place to be able to express the feelings and emotions.

This site...even though at times really hard to read because of all the realities and then real truths (for instance...I love anvil, zoso...because my rational side totally relates...I have read so much over the past 13 years...tried to process...become more awake and open...) but at the end of the day...I am still here where I am...the relapse was real and is real...and guilting myself because I can't be rational and do it quicker isn't going to help me...in fact sometimes I get called on being so enthusiastic I am overdoing...so I seem to swing from side to side...which is immensely irritating and awful for me...as I grew up believing that I could do it all...and that I needed to do it all as my parents were often not there (they were very busy and often out of the home and I was left in charge or left with grandparents who were old, feeble and sick...and I was expected to call 911 if something went wrong...that is where my faith came from...I knew I wouldn't wake if grandma had an emphysema attack...so prayed her into God's hands...).

I know that the person who has to change is me...but right now...am just living as I can...just for today.
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Old 12-02-2014, 11:52 AM
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it's like i'm standing on shore watching him drown and making a conscious decision not to help.

by remembering that you taught him how to swim and that there are no less than 4 or 5 life rings out floating around him RIGHT NOW. he is not USING the help that has already been offered, tenfold.
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Old 12-02-2014, 01:06 PM
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Yes, that's good Anvil. You, lovenjoy, have tossed countless life rings to him. HE makes a conscious decision to not use them.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:36 PM
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thank you, thank you, thank you.....
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:40 PM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post
it's like i'm standing on shore watching him drown and making a conscious decision not to help.

by remembering that you taught him how to swim and that there are no less than 4 or 5 life rings out floating around him RIGHT NOW. he is not USING the help that has already been offered, tenfold.
Yes, what Anvil said. He's making a conscious decision not to reach out for the help, the real help, that is there for him whenever he is ready.

Prayers help me, turning my son's care over to God and then living in faith that God will do for him what I cannot.

Sending extra prayers for your boy today.
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:57 PM
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strengthens me about my daughter as well...thank you anvil.
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Old 12-02-2014, 06:33 PM
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to me, the addict who continually refuses the HELP offered is akin to the drowning person bitching about the color of the life preserver. ew, I can't where GREEN, that SO does not go with my outfit!
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Old 12-02-2014, 07:18 PM
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@ irisgarden
thanks for your post there and i really dont know how you can have faith in a god if your child died its beyond me ?

if one of my kids got into trouble i would have to do everything that i could as i wouldnt trust a god at all as my son died and no one and nothing could save him
he was the sweetest kid in the world he never did anything wrong to anyone and yet there are such horrible people alive in this world it really makes no sense to me at all

so like i said if another of my kids was in trouble praying to a god would be the last thing i would do as i said i would have to do all i could to save them myself

i know many would say you have to let them go but for me after losing a kid there is no way i could sit back and let another one go off and suffer i just couldn't do it

the problem is people have to live with themselves after the child dies and if i hadnt done all i could to save mine then i couldnt live with it after wards

i look at my ex wife and she is getting on with her life i am sure she misses my son but she wouldn't do anything to help him as she isnt like me hence i ended up with the care of the kids and not her

i put it down to her drinking and how its effected her but being honest it has nothing to do with her drinking its how she was even when the kids were small if the kids fell over she would just tell them to get back up and not bother wiping away there tears were as i would be the one to pick them up and give them a hug wiping there tears away

so there is a huge difference between me and her in how we think feel and react to things for me my kids have always been my life and always will be hence i couldnt tell anyone to not look after there kids no matter how much suffering is going on as if they do end up dying then you have to live with it for the rest of your life

my ex wife can live with it but i couldn't so i guess its down to each person and how they could cope if the worse came to the worse
for me losing my son has been the most soul destorying thing i have ever experienced in my life and its still like that today just so empty without him around even though i have my other kids

but its certainly changed a lot of the ways i view things in life.
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Old 12-03-2014, 06:22 AM
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Old 12-03-2014, 03:39 PM
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understand pete...and know that you have support here.

each parent has to find the ways to cope that work for them...it is hard work...

i am glad that you are here and posting and dealing...that takes a lot of courage.

One of the things I learned after my own son passed is that parents are permanently changed (in many cases) after the death of a child...and also that the surviving children (at least at the ages our children were) -- look to how the parents cope in dealing with their own loss...

So, 24 years ago...I set my mind on providing the best example of a mother and in my case, wife, and have been working on me ever since. Having 2 children who went through addiction and now a third...I have had ample opportunity to work on myself...it hasn't been easy and it is no longer about my grief about Paul Daniel...because as people say...time helps.

However, the realizing that I might lose another child...3 separate times...and living with the current one...I have found that, for me...I NEED to believe in a power greater than myself (my name for God)--because without it...I would not have had the strength to do any of what I've done...

I am sending you blessings and care...and know that everything you write makes perfect sense...and works...and so I am just trying to give you a bit of support as you have suffered a severe loss (it is said that losing a child is the worst loss). You are doing a wonderful job at being a Dad and a provider and your recovery work shines.
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Old 12-03-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by desypete View Post
@
if one of my kids got into trouble i would have to do everything that i could .
Many of the parents here have done everything they could to help their kids and found that enabling was only making things worse. personally, I had my adult son show up at my home waving a handgun at his younger brothers and sisters.

Desypete, I am sorry for the loss of you son, but many of the parents here are looking for support in detaching with love to let their children (many of whom are adults) find their bottom. It doesn't mean we don't love our children it just means we have to love ourselves a little bit more.

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