Alcohol and Evolution
EndGame
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Join Date: Jun 2013
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Alcohol and Evolution
We may not like certain genetic phenotypes, but Mother Nature has never been a perfect parent.
Ability to consume alcohol may have shaped primate evolution | Science/AAAS | News
Ability to consume alcohol may have shaped primate evolution | Science/AAAS | News
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 443
. So I got that going for me…….
EndGame
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Originally Posted by Deckard 
EndGame
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Originally Posted by SoberLeigh
Interesting article - fascinating research.
Rather than alcoholism being a disease (though there has been demonstrated success in treating it as such), it's part of our makeup, part of both nature and nurture.
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Originally Posted by EndGameNYC
I agree. Over time, different people on SR have commented on their thoughts around alcohol never being "invented." It's always been there. Along the way, alcohol took on/was tied up with the pleasure of food, of eating. In terms of evolution and genetics, some of us actually find ourselves having to drink after our first or early experiences with it.
Rather than alcoholism being a disease (though there has been demonstrated success in treating it as such), it's part of our makeup, part of both nature and nurture.
Rather than alcoholism being a disease (though there has been demonstrated success in treating it as such), it's part of our makeup, part of both nature and nurture.
pray for strength
Join Date: Apr 2014
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Endgame,
I once wrote this here on SR but now will repeat because I find it to be hilarious. Growing up we had acres of fruit trees. One of my pastimes as a kid during autumn was to watch the members of a (+) deer family come together and eat the fallen fruit and then lounge around after in the tall grasses without a care in the world. After some time they would decide to move on and one by one hop sideways, albeit forward moving, to their next destination. And they would keep coming back - perhaps every time a member of their deer family had a birthday?
Good memories. I thought to myself that the deer should just try a little harder to reach up into the trees to get fresh instead of gross, disgusting, wasp-covered rotten fruit. We used to put salt licks out in the winter time as well...but that was not nearly as great of a rumpus to watch.
Thanks for the article.
I once wrote this here on SR but now will repeat because I find it to be hilarious. Growing up we had acres of fruit trees. One of my pastimes as a kid during autumn was to watch the members of a (+) deer family come together and eat the fallen fruit and then lounge around after in the tall grasses without a care in the world. After some time they would decide to move on and one by one hop sideways, albeit forward moving, to their next destination. And they would keep coming back - perhaps every time a member of their deer family had a birthday?
Good memories. I thought to myself that the deer should just try a little harder to reach up into the trees to get fresh instead of gross, disgusting, wasp-covered rotten fruit. We used to put salt licks out in the winter time as well...but that was not nearly as great of a rumpus to watch.
Thanks for the article.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
^^^ BAM!!! The obvious [to me]. From Post #8:
'Rather than alcoholism being a disease (though there has been demonstrated success in treating it as such), it's part of our makeup, part of both nature and nurture.'
The Discipline I've engaged in this year is one I learned formally in the Business World. Ask why [is something done a certain way]? Ask why again. And, again. Like opening a Metaphorical set of little Boxes; one within the other. Keep opening.
I've winced repeatedly when Heart-rending Stories here assume Drinking is fully a choice. Open up that assumption 'Box', and see what's inside. If Drinking is not fully a choice, then most all the associated demonization and misunderstanding can be tossed out, because that assumption is fundamentally wrong. Further, this explains why Folks keep Drinking when it's so obviously not in their best interest for realizing a quality Life.
Character Defects are the Root Cause for the propensity to Drink? Ummmm, likely not. See the linked Article above, which makes an insane amount of Evolutionary sense. It helps answer the 'endless' question of 'why can't I drink like a Normie', and then endlessly fretting that question. Or, going down in flames while attempting Moderation. Moderation in many/most is doomed from the Evolutionary get-go. See Article above.-)
There's many more assumptions ripe for questioning - and dismissal - based on the Truisms in the Article above. The real 'positive', for me, is to plot my individualized, successful Recovery Path that embraces these Truisms, and not beat myself up about the Evolutionary/Genetic Hand I was dealt. I'm fair Skinned. I Sunburn. Corrective Action: I use Sunscreen. That Genetic Imperative is not something I beat myself up over. Why, then, do so regarding the Genetic Imperative to Drink/Use? Seek/get understanding on the Core of it - while opening one lil Box after the other in Recovery - and develop new Coping Skills and Responses. Genetic Newsflash: I'm not built like a Horse Jockey. Never will be. Accept it, and move along. Nothing to see here...
For me, to approach all this via some tired Paradigm that ignores the Genetic Imperative is to over-think it, and needlessly sabotage permanent Recovery. Accepting the Genetic Hand I was dealt immensely lowers Stress and Anxiety.
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'Rather than alcoholism being a disease (though there has been demonstrated success in treating it as such), it's part of our makeup, part of both nature and nurture.'
The Discipline I've engaged in this year is one I learned formally in the Business World. Ask why [is something done a certain way]? Ask why again. And, again. Like opening a Metaphorical set of little Boxes; one within the other. Keep opening.
I've winced repeatedly when Heart-rending Stories here assume Drinking is fully a choice. Open up that assumption 'Box', and see what's inside. If Drinking is not fully a choice, then most all the associated demonization and misunderstanding can be tossed out, because that assumption is fundamentally wrong. Further, this explains why Folks keep Drinking when it's so obviously not in their best interest for realizing a quality Life.
Character Defects are the Root Cause for the propensity to Drink? Ummmm, likely not. See the linked Article above, which makes an insane amount of Evolutionary sense. It helps answer the 'endless' question of 'why can't I drink like a Normie', and then endlessly fretting that question. Or, going down in flames while attempting Moderation. Moderation in many/most is doomed from the Evolutionary get-go. See Article above.-)
There's many more assumptions ripe for questioning - and dismissal - based on the Truisms in the Article above. The real 'positive', for me, is to plot my individualized, successful Recovery Path that embraces these Truisms, and not beat myself up about the Evolutionary/Genetic Hand I was dealt. I'm fair Skinned. I Sunburn. Corrective Action: I use Sunscreen. That Genetic Imperative is not something I beat myself up over. Why, then, do so regarding the Genetic Imperative to Drink/Use? Seek/get understanding on the Core of it - while opening one lil Box after the other in Recovery - and develop new Coping Skills and Responses. Genetic Newsflash: I'm not built like a Horse Jockey. Never will be. Accept it, and move along. Nothing to see here...
For me, to approach all this via some tired Paradigm that ignores the Genetic Imperative is to over-think it, and needlessly sabotage permanent Recovery. Accepting the Genetic Hand I was dealt immensely lowers Stress and Anxiety.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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I read the original paper before. Yes it is quite interesting and also the molecular biology methods they used are pretty good. There are somewhat similar stories about specific brain receptors, signaling molecules involved in specific neurotransmitter systems and evolution.
I wrote about this many times here on SR, that addiction is so powerful because the neurobiological mechanisms in it are so similar to how the brain processes natural rewards such as food, sex, or love and why/how we seek these out in the form of motivation and craving, then how they can take over these mechanisms excessively at times and then it's difficult to let them go. So these mechanisms in the brain definitely evolved originally to serve survival, not to cause diseases and kill us... But they are vulnerable to hijack by alcohol and other addictive substances. In some of us more than others (which relates to individual genetics and other biological phenomena and differences).
I wrote about this many times here on SR, that addiction is so powerful because the neurobiological mechanisms in it are so similar to how the brain processes natural rewards such as food, sex, or love and why/how we seek these out in the form of motivation and craving, then how they can take over these mechanisms excessively at times and then it's difficult to let them go. So these mechanisms in the brain definitely evolved originally to serve survival, not to cause diseases and kill us... But they are vulnerable to hijack by alcohol and other addictive substances. In some of us more than others (which relates to individual genetics and other biological phenomena and differences).
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Join Date: Sep 2014
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Wow.
I'm the descendant of an alcohol tolerant Gorilla.
I guess that explains my propensity to violence when threatened.
My wife must have descended from baboons, she can't drink for peanuts.
I'm the descendant of an alcohol tolerant Gorilla.
I guess that explains my propensity to violence when threatened.
My wife must have descended from baboons, she can't drink for peanuts.
quat
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: terra (mostly)firma
Posts: 4,823
Actually if we metabolized the alcohol "better" we'd probably be better off.
Somebody must have kicked my mitochondrial ancestor's butt out of the tree , lol.
Perhaps divergent lines went to cro mg/ Neanderthal recombined a voila Me, doesn't much matter. I've made my plan, and I'm sticking to it
Somebody must have kicked my mitochondrial ancestor's butt out of the tree , lol.
Perhaps divergent lines went to cro mg/ Neanderthal recombined a voila Me, doesn't much matter. I've made my plan, and I'm sticking to it
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Join Date: May 2014
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all i know is if i take just 1 drink i will not stop at 1 or if i have to its a waste of time ever having one as the hunger in me for more is just so powerful
of course no one would want to be around me if i did take just 1 drink and have access to more so i can finish the job off as i would get insanely drunk and i really dont want to have to say sorry to anyone the next day or have to stand up in court trying to explain to them why i keep on getting so drunk and ending up in front of them
now had i of been a drifferent type of drinker where i could have a few over the top wines or sherrys and i might fart in public and be so ashamed of myself for it that i would have to learn how t cut out the wine etc well its a different problem to face with a different method that could be looked at for themselves
so for me its a safer bet that i just accept i am an alcoholic, accept just what 1 drink will do to me, and not worry about the effect drink has on gorillas as it will not make a bit of difference to what will happen to me if i pick up a drink
of course no one would want to be around me if i did take just 1 drink and have access to more so i can finish the job off as i would get insanely drunk and i really dont want to have to say sorry to anyone the next day or have to stand up in court trying to explain to them why i keep on getting so drunk and ending up in front of them
now had i of been a drifferent type of drinker where i could have a few over the top wines or sherrys and i might fart in public and be so ashamed of myself for it that i would have to learn how t cut out the wine etc well its a different problem to face with a different method that could be looked at for themselves
so for me its a safer bet that i just accept i am an alcoholic, accept just what 1 drink will do to me, and not worry about the effect drink has on gorillas as it will not make a bit of difference to what will happen to me if i pick up a drink
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