Hangnbyathread

I am new to this board. Sharing what has helped us can help others. I personally have some struggles with the 12 Step program. Rather than try and resist it step by step I found that in the end there are 4 things that really are the tangible results that will help calm your confusion.

I am not about trying to undermine anything that works. Although AA has a fairly low success rate, it is the grandaddy of all the programs, is free to all and even with its poor overall success rate, has helped millions. Don't fight it. You don't have to personally embrace it, but you haven't got a better plan or you wouldn't have a problem with AC if you did. And you most certainly have nothing to lose.

At first your RA will be filled with information and study work. The Big Book, the higher power, meditating, the sponsor, the reaching out etc. For the first 30 days or so you would think they have joined a cult. They get swamped with new idea and processes. Consider all that as static for you. Here is what I feel you need to see happen from the 12 steps if it is successful. The 12 steps boil down to this and THIS is what matters to me.

1. Your AC has now come to realize that they can’t drink without consistently creating chaos and pain.
2. Hopefully your AC has now surrendered to the fact that this is a kind of law of nature for them, and that fighting
it has been insane for both of you.
3. Now your AC has a willingness to let reality be the guide of their actions henceforth in this and in everything else.
4. Now your AC has made a commitment to try and stop hurting yourself or others, and to help where they can.

OK maybe 5 steps. This one probably is more one of my personal resolutions that is outside the structure of the 12 step system.

You will never know the truth. Your AC may never actually own anything they has done to anyone but themselves. What else really matters?

LexieCat

I don't agree with that breakdown, personally, as a recovered alcoholic (and it might be helpful if you used the same abbreviation others use here--check out this thread: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-acronyms.html -- most people here use just plain "A" to refer to an alcoholic/addict, or RA if they are in recovery). Most people would think that "AC" refers to "alcoholic child."

You aren't in Al-Anon, and you haven't mentioned being in AA, so maybe rather than explaining what the 12 Steps "boil down to", you could just talk about your personal experience and what you hope to see on the part of the recovered alcoholic.

Hangnbyathread

I just did.

I am not in AA as I am not an alcoholic. I have attended Al-Anon and support it for those that find it useful. For those of us being told that we need help or this is what AA tells our alcoholic family member is supposed to be doing as Al Anon does, I shared this to help the new ones that come here confused.

And I should have titled it if you are new family member of an A going through 12 steps. But I can't go back and edit it.

I will apologize for the misleading title and hope that someone can change it. I did however post it in the correct section.

desypete

let me break it down to a simple format
1 go to an aa meeting
2 listen to what people have to say
3 repeat step 1 for say 90 days and see how you feel when you hit 90

i will guarantee along the way you will become more educated than ever before and who knows you might just find the answers for your problem and go on to live without the need for a drink again.

no need to worry about steps or anything else at this time as i believe in anyone trying things out before they buy and if there not happy then there is a full refund on offer.

take the body and the mind will follow

biminiblue

I think if you haven't been to AA you can't really have understanding of the steps.

I don't think your post is representative of "How it works" in AA.

I agree with Lexi, you are welcome here and if you want to share your experience, it would be valuable. Did you find Al Anon helpful?

LexieCat

Al-Anon doesn't tell us a thing about what our alcoholic is "supposed to be doing." It doesn't have anything to say about AA, which is a totally separate program for a totally different problem.

The best way to understand what AA is "telling the alcoholic" is to read the Big Book and to attend a few AA meetings (preferably not in the company of the alcoholic).

I've been in AA for six years (all sober) and plenty of other AA members are on this list too, for the issues arising from their relationships with other alcoholics. I just think it's problematic for someone who doesn't have experience with AA to try to explain what it's about.

Hangnbyathread

Al-Anon uses the exact same 12 steps that AA uses. At least the Al-Anon I have here does. I have not seen any with any other formats. We recite the same 12 steps at the start of our meetings that AA does in theirs. And I am past 90 days into this.

Hangnbyathread

I haven't had any bad experiences with Al-Anon no. It has been a great help in seeing how the program is structured. I just related that to a Non Problem drinker with a problem drinker loved one, we are in a state of confusion about what to expect and how we go about seeing how 12 steps end up helping us the family members. Going to Al-Anon allows us to see what steps the alcoholic we love is prescribing to. I simply broke it down to a more simplistic way to view the outcome. We as family members don't necessarily need the guidance of a higher power or adopting the 12 steps to dig our way out of living with an alcoholic. But it helps us to understand that our loved one is taking these steps.

Hangnbyathread

And if I offended anyone by the statement of its low success rate I will apologize. By AA's own numbers they have about a 5 or so % long term success rate. That is still MILLIONS of successes. I am THRILLED they have helped millions.

My AGF has been in recovery now for several months. I wouldn't consider her recovered at this stage. And both her and several members of my Al-Anon meeting discuss the relapses. Easily more than half of my members have dealt with the RA's that have relapsed and are there to find comfort any way they can in the next round of roller coaster. I just crunch numbers. I am not trying to disrespect the help that it has offered myself and others.

Further more than half of my Al-Anon members are also members of AA. They work both programs.

For me all I need to see is results for my AGF. How she gets there, is not relevant to me.

LexieCat

The Steps are ALMOST the same (with the exception of Step 12) but they are generally interpreted and applied in a slightly different fashion because of the differences in the issues that arise.

Many, many different programs use the Steps and they are a good guide for self-improvement for anyone. But going to a few meetings doesn't mean really understanding the Steps--people study them and practice them for years and years and don't stop getting fresh insights.

So going to a few Al-Anon meetings does not mean that you are in a position to explain how the Steps work in AA.

schnappi99

I started going to alanon in Feb this year. For the 1st few months I had lots of opinions about what is and isn't, summaries and reinterpretations. Turns out the suggested program of recovery didn't need my elaboration. My first 4th step is probably going to take a year or so and thats fine...

FireSprite

Well....... for me all *I* need is to see results in MY recovery in order to change my life.

I don't really give 2 flying figs how RAH goes about his own program because my recovery is not contingent on his recovering.

I don't care about how he works the steps (or not) or whether he brays to the full moon every month so long as his decisions impact my life in a more positive way than they did during his active addiction.

My RAH seems to go the very longest way around growing and I don't feel like it's my right to judge his strides in recovery so long as my boundaries are being honored. JMHO, welcome to SR!

SeriousKarma

As far as I can tell Hangn, your understanding of the 12 steps as it applies to Alanon, seem to be centered almost entirely on the alcoholic.

Your four points all have to do with how the alcoholic is handling their recovery.

My understanding of Alanon is the exact opposite of that. That we should be shifting our focus away from the alcoholic and onto ourselves. Nothing in our recovery should be contingent on what the addict does, says, thinks, or feels. Whether they go to AA, whether they realize how their drinking has effected us, whether they drink tea or coffee, or poop in the morning or afternoon. This is the type of thinking we need to let go of.

I can't, God can, I think I'll let him.

That's the first 3 steps in a nutshell. Whether one's HP is God or a Fuzzy Bunny it's a pretty simple recommendation. Let go. Release the grip. Accept the things I can't change, and pray for the courage to change the things can.

At least that's my take on it.

SeriousKarma

Firesprite, you and I posted at the same time. I think we're saying essentially the same thing.

freetosmile

That's a tough lesson to learn, that recovery is your own. Yes, alanon seems to take the focus off the A and places the accountability squarely on your lap. Love that...hate that! Its hard when you don't have the excuse "my A is making my life miserable". Well, we have a little thing called choices! And we "choose" to allow that behavior to affect us. Alanon is really about, "I see you have a problem and I wonder what you're going to do about it". Puts accountability right where it should be, with the individual.

Hangnbyathread

The 12 steps as any faith based guidance system all offer good common sense approaches to problem solving in life. The Bible, The Quran, The Tanakh. I can find passages of good life value in them all. The Serenity Prayer can serve each of us daily in about 1,000 different aspects of life.

I am more than 90 days into this. I was seeking professional therapy for the consequences of alcoholism before I even knew I had an AGF. Never once had to pray to anything during that time. Made more progress there than anywhere, but not everyone has this path available to them.

I'm 90 days into Al-Anon, I was hearing the same mantra on day 30 that I was on day 2. That wasn't progress it was simply a repetition.

My attempt in this post was to help the new ones that I have read here repeatedly in my short existence here, trying to find a path that is easier to understand rather than trying to take on all the program being pushed in front of them. Keep the 12 steps simple in what you can hope your loved one gleans from them. Makes our lives easier to cope with rather than learning to recite prayers and steps because we are told we have to, to find happiness. That isn't the only path there is. But it is certainly one path we can take.


If Al-Anon meetings was all we needed, we wouldn't need to come to a board like this.

If my AGF needs a year to find her way through step X I understand. Meanwhile I need to get on with my life and progress past wondering if this will work for her or not.

Hangnbyathread

EXACTLY! Cut through all the inner searching of our moral fabric. Learn to let go of what the alcoholic has done to us and let go of what they do to themselves. That requires help for most of us. Not faith. Action.

schnappi99

I don't think Alanon requires anyone to have faith in anything. I started out in alanon with religion issues too, as did my buddy in AA. His sponsor put the religion problem in a nutshell for him, and he passed it on to me.

The question is how desperately do you want recovery?

I was pretty desperate.. enough to quit asking questions about religion and getting worked up over vocabulary. What really put it to me was starting the 4th step, for the first time I had to get really serious and really complete and really honest with myself about myself. It changes things.

Now I don't know much of anything about my higher power.. don't think about its nature much- those aren't very interesting questions. But I know very precisely what it isn't and thats anything in my own head. When I let go of something and get some serenity back, the only thing I did was let something go- I'm not responsible for the peace of mind. I don't know the agency or mechanism.. don't want to start making judgements about it either.. what could I say better than being grateful and appreciative and respectful?

But you speak of action- do you have a sponsor, have you started the 4th step? More than what the alcoholic has or hasn't done I'm kind of wondering what you do to yourself... thats where I've found wounds inflicted on myself since I was a child.

Hangnbyathread

TY for the welcome.

Detachment. My struggle with that was the constant *itching I got from doing it. I'm over that again. When my AGF met me she liked that I was detached from all things that drug me down. She wanted to attach herself to that skill so she could pull herself out. Instead I allowed it to suck the life out of me. I didn't know I was dealing with an alcoholic or I would have never allowed it in the first place. I didn't know she was an AH because I was detached.....lol.

6 years into it and I had already sought help, learned and recovered from this part. Then when she realized I was cutting my line and moving on, she sought help . Then I got introduced to the AA and Al Anon. I added this to my toolbox of life.

What I still struggle with is the lack of accountability she takes. You just never feel like they get it if they never articulate what they get. "Yes I know my drinking causes problems" is sort of like saying I poured a can of paint on your car to touch up that dent in the fender. So I detach from this as well. If you aren't in my car anymore, I won't have unexplained dents in it......:-)

SeriousKarma

Detachment is an elusive little bugger. God knows I can't explain it, but I wonder if you're not maybe confusing detachment with ignoring.

I think of detaching as letting them deal with their own issues. In other words, letting her pour paint on her own car, and not stepping in to stop her. Her car, her dent, her can of paint. If it's MY car, then we're talking about boundaries and consequences.

Regarding the issue of wanting them to take accountability. Take a number and get at the back of the line. There is no quick fix to cure that little itch. That's why many of us have committed ourselves to working this program for life. It's not 12 steps and then a graduation ceremony.