Butterfly

So trying to work on how I feel about things and understanding my feelings which I've never been very good at as I haven't paid much attention to my feelings except feeling sadness over everything. I think I'm feeling agitated and a bit angry with AH. So he doesn't want contact with me but that also means he doesn't want contact with me about the kids I take it. My DS told me AH was trying to sort out his work experience as his brother works in the field DS wants to work in. So he rang him last night to tell him it was sorted but did he contact me no. I have no idea where he is going what are the times or anything he hasn't even told DS all the details!! Why would I need to know I'm only looking after him making sure all his day to day needs are met making sure I'm being the responsible parent obviously I don't need to know anything. He doesn't even tell me arrangements for when he is seeing him my DS tells me at the last minute cos he forgets everything until the last minute, he's so disorganised lol. He is supposed to pick him up every morning for school but if he's not DS will get a text message in the early hours of the morning saying he has to get the bus as he's not well, yeah right! The issue is that if DS has to get the bus we need to get up earlier so we are left running about like mad things getting him out on time but again he doesn't tell me, I would wake up during the night if I get a text message DS wouldn't and I then know nothing about it.

I'm also annoyed about his attitude towards my DD and DS few weeks ago you may remember he was complaining that DD wanted nothing to do with him and how devastated he said he was, he even sent a text message to my son telling him he loved him and he wanted him to know that in case he decided he wanted nothing to do with him just like DD!!! He said he missed her so much sent her text messages saying he missed her and really wanted to see her!

So she went to visit him one night after working from 7am to 8pm, he made her something to eat and at 8.45pm he said to her I'm not chucking you out but I'm going to bed, really he missed her really seems he wanted to see her and missed her! She said she hasn't heard from him since!!

DS did spent an overnight recently he went at 6pm and said to me I've been putting it off for weeks il have to go!!

I'm sorry I know this is about AH again but I am really frustrated and hurt that he is behaving as though I don't exist and his treatment of my kids makes me so angry, alcohol really is more important!!

lillamy

So I'm not a lawyer -- but the advice I got when I left AXH was to get a separation agreement. Not all states have them, but it might be worth checking into.

My separation agreement stated that I had primary legal and physical custody of the kids, the conditions for the kids seeing him, the conditions for him contacting me, and how much he was supposed to pay in child support. It also was a legal document that protected me: I was no longer responsible (financially or otherwise) if he drove drunk or got into any other problems with the law.

The morning situation sounds outrageous. Would it be easier for you to just say "DS will take the bus" and plan accordingly? It sounds like your AH is out of the house but still interfering with your ability to live your life.

Those are all practical things. The emotional things? They're more difficult. Just like you, I hadn't paid much attention to my feelings for years before I left. When they started coming back, they felt big and scary.

I got a lot of reminders here: Feelings aren't facts -- just because you feel a certain way doesn't mean you have to act in any particular way. Also, you won't always be feeling this way.

I can understand that you would be frustrated and irritated about his behavior with jerking you back and forth with "I'm driving DS -- no I'm not" -- and it's heartbreaking when the other parent shows that they really don't give a flying frog's foot about their own children. It hurts.

meggem

The first thing my lawyer suggested I do was get a child custody order in place. She said until I did that - the kids belonged to the state - he could do whatever he wanted with the kids - take them and not return - whatever. Just randomly pick them up from school - anything to mess with me.

Not that I thought he would kidnap them but I didn't and don't put much past him.

This order named me as having physical custody of them and he was given visitation.

Maybe you should check into that. I live in PA and that cost me about $800.00 -

Butterfly

I think feelings are facts I feel something sadness, anger, disappointment, rejected etc therefore that feeling is real. Is it not? I know that when I feel a certain way I don't have to allow it to influence my behaviour and I am getting better at this!

Given my children's ages it is their choice where they live and they want to live with me its all the messing about that is annoying me, that he says DD has abandoned him when it's him who has abandoned her and that he is just behaving as I don't exist!!

AnvilheadII

soooo, this isn't really about the KIDS.......is it?

lillamy

Feelings are real. Feelings are what they are. But feelings don't tell you anything other than what you're feeling. That's what I mean. Feelings are not facts. For example -- you can feel offended. So that's your feeling. It doesn't necessarily mean someone else did something wrong. It doesn't say anything about the world. All it says something about is -- itself. "I'm feeling offended."

So... the kids are old enough to decide for themselves how they want to interact with him. Is the biggest thing you're dealing with right now that you're feeling... rejected? Upset that he doesn't care about you? I'm just trying to understand here.

Butterfly

It's both. As I said in my initial post I'm angry at how he is treating the kids and that he is just ignoring DD as he views she has abandoned him!! I'm angry with him messing DS about, his lies, self pitying text messages and not making any effort to spend time with him unless it suits him and yes I am hurt, angry that he is behaving that I don't exist and I never mattered to him and that he won't even tell me anything that is to do with any arrangements for the kids! I don't understand how he can behave this way towards me or how he can honestly feel that DD has abandoned him and now the manipulating texts to DS

lillamy

So when I try to sort through that, I see two things:

You can't change how manipulative he is with the kids, or how much he hurts them, as long as he can see them whenever he wants to. If they're minors -- under 18 in the US, not sure about the UK -- then you can still protect them and put some legal sidebars on how the interaction goes. You can get some organization into when he sees them. You can put limits on how lackadaisical he can be.

This:
I think is a separate issue. I think that's normal hurt and pain after a breakup of a relationship. I know no other way but through that. Just be careful with what you tell yourself, because your brain tends to believe it. ((hugs))

Butterfly

Under 18 in the UK also, DS is 16 and DD is 20 but it's strange because at 16 they are classed as old enough to protect themselves and make their own decisions, if they are not vulnerable or have a disability. But they can leave school as compulsory education ends at 16 and DS finished his last June but he chose to stay on and he can leave home if he wants. In the UK when the court grants a residency order (an order stipulating where a child resides and with who they grant the order until 16 years and only in exceptional circumstances will it be granted until 18, so legally there is nothing I can do with regards to legally putting in conditions I just have to hope that they continue talking to me and I can reassure them and if it continues then stuff him not wanting contact I will speak to him. DD has a learning disability so although she is 20 her understanding and processing would be younger and she really doesn't understand addiction.

I am trying to watch what I tell myself as your right when I am really down I am so negative about myself so this is also something I am trying to work on and catch the negative thoughts before they take hold.

AnvilheadII

butterfly - it's not that there is anything WRONG with you....or the kids. that you guys aren't good or perfect or acceptable - it's just that HE doesn't wanna "play" full time father and husband. I offer that he has not wanted to for a long time.....his previous actions over time indicate that....this isn't the first time he left, bailed, took off. it's what the 5th? more?

i'm gonna hold to my guns that I don't think this is JUST so he can have the freedom to DRINK.....I think it's cuz he wanted FREEDOM. from being responsible for others, for having to follow the rules, and hold up his end of the bargain. I think he's been clawing at the wallboard for a long time, seeking an exit. because he is incapable of putting the wellbeing and stability ahead of his own selfish wants and desires. a quick look at how often he bails at the last minute to give the kid a ride to school - he does it only when it SUITS him. but not if he has something else going on, like a good drunk or a bad hangover or just doesn't feel like it.

now is when you need to step up and be the sensible sturdy role model for those kids. to teach them that HIS behavior is NO reflection upon them. that he's there but he's kinda useless and sketchy, and that's just how it is. talk to your son and decide if you both still want to rely upon the AH for that AM ride to school or if it's better for everyone to just take the bus and not have your schedules messed up. none of you needs to bend to HIS will, or his WHIMS. you gotta rise above....

Butterfly

He has left about 7 times throughout our 18 yrs together when his ability to drink is being threatened. And I always compromised with his drinking so he would come home with the exception of the first time, and we were separated for 5 years until he sought help and gave up and came home and this time when I have stood firm that he needs to be sober. I recently found out that on that time when he said he had given up he hadn't I just didn't see it. Didn't understand addiction

I've spoken to DS and as he hates getting the bus he wants to continue to get a lift. I agree he picks them up and puts them down when he feels like it when it suits him. My son has a better understanding of addiction than my daughter and he will talk about it but when he is at his and he doesn't see any alcohol then I think he gets a bit confused and I've tried to talk to him about this. DD when I talk to her she gets angry says I'm trying to counsel her when I'm trying to explain

Hawkeye13

So if DS wants to get the ride, it is up to him to arrange with his Dad, or he takes the bus.
You don't have to agree to disrupt your schedule if his Dad doesn't show up. Why do you have to rescue / enable the two of them because your son "prefers' the unreliable choice.?

I would seriously consider saying no to involvement in this by stating it to your son you won't be picking up the pieces if his ride doesn't show and he misses the bus and that you really mean it, as it is a trigger and both of them are clearly expecting you to "fix" the issue when AH bails. Let some consequences occur for both of them--son will get mad at Dad and maybe quit counting on him which sounds like a good thing, but he won't if you keep saving the day. Either way, Not your circus.

So the kid issue is only the tip of the iceberg from what you're posting as Anvil suggests.
It looks like AH choosing NC with you is really the biggest trigger right now and I understand how much this much hurt after all you've endured.

The bottom line is, as Anvil says, he's choosing selfish freedom over his family and I agree with her that drinking is but one component of the equation. He has shown you for years this is who he is and this is what he wants with his life. Yes, the alcohol is part of the failure yet I don't think you can truly say with honesty that it deserves the blame for everything. When I was drinking the most heavily, I never even thought about not taking care of my family and the responsibilitys I had chosen.

Some things are character traits and not about booze. The booze makes it much worse of course, but his actions really indicate a much deeper issue that the drinking spearheads but is not the full source.

You deserve better my dear friend. He isn't ever going to be the person who deserves a loyal and devoted wife such as yourself--his actions keep showing this more and more.

So what next in terms of detaching and healing for yourself?
Big hugs. You have given him every chance.

Thumper

There are many stages to acceptance. It was another step for me to accept that the relationship between my kids and my ex was theirs. It was my ex's responsibility. I had no control over it. I couldn't make it fit my vision of what I wanted for them any more than I could make my marriage fit the vision I had.

In my experience once I let go of the frustration, hurt, upset, anger, etc. over how he was handling that relationship I found a lot of peace - and so did my children! The biggest factor in them accepting their dad, his addiction and issues, and the new relationship with him, was my acceptance.

For instance - the morning pick up. Your son can choose to make taking the bus Plan A and prepare as such - and if his dad gives the ride that will be a bonus - or he can choose to figure out how to hear the alarm - or he can keep on keeping on like he is - or any other number of solutions he can come up with but this is really about him learning a VERY important lesson here. One that is going to be easiest to learn now, with something relatively small like his morning ride to school, so don't stand in his way of learning that. He is going to learn how he has the power to control his day, life, serenity with his own actions and choices - not be at the whim of someone else's. He is also going to learn that his dad is irresponsible and selfish. This is sad but it is a fact. He'll discover that he doesn't have to let that control his life. He isn't at the mercy of his dad's character and it isn't a reflection of him personally. He can't reach that point if he thinks he can do or say something that will change his dad's behavior or waits for his dad to 'get it'.

Your children are at an age where it is OK that he talks directly with them. It is OK that he doesn't correspond with you. It might hurt and it might not be ideal - but it is not unreasonable to parent in that way for two kids that age. It might be that way for right now, for a year, or forever. There have certainly been times when either my ex or I have felt like we needed no contact. There was some brief email correspondence during those times (my kids were much younger) but in the long run it was for the best.

Continue on your journey of healing and acceptance regarding the ending of this relationship and the strengthening of your own feelings of self worth and self empowerment. There is a light at the end of this dark tunnel and getting there will be a gift to yourself and your children.

dandylion

Butterfly....anger is also one of the emotions of the grieving process. As I have often said, to you, that grieving is a kliedoscope of feelings and takes time...( more than a few weeks or m onths) to process.

I see your anger as normal for your situation.

dandylion

Butterfly

Double post sorry

Butterfly

I don't really understand what else there is to it and why alcohol can't be blamed for him choosing to leave after all he wanted to drink without restriction?? On the other occasions he has left it has been for the same reasons to drink, to protect where he goes to drink, who he drinks with but bottom line he wanted to keep on drinking and didn't want to seek help. I am beginning to accept that although it hurts but he has never wanted no contact with me on all the other occasions he has been at the house, yes I enabled him and continued to support him yes I was a fool. He never like to feel that he was being told what to do and never made decisions based on our marriage or kids but always when he was ready and I see that now before I thought he was changing for me and the kids but no only when he wanted to.

Hawkeye I think it's great that you didn't abandon your family and responsibilities but I think we all knowl from other posters and from the alcoholics side there are plenty of people with addictions that walk away and shut their loved ones out and abandon all responsibility. For my AH it's so he doesn't have to talk or face up to what he has done and he can go on living in his own wee world of him and only him!!

hopeful4

Alcohol did not make him make these choices my dear. It's his personality. His system of what is important to him. He has always let that be known, alcohol is #1.

So....my suggestion.....is act like he does not exist. Have your son get up earlier in case he can get a lift, if not, on the bus he goes. Your DD realizes you are not causing this hurt, I am positive both of your kids know this. There comes a time in their lives they are old enough to see good ol dad for who he is, and that may be hurtful. I have come to the realization I cannot protect my DD's from all hurt. Their father will likely hurt them, a lot, over the course of their lifetime. I cannot change that.

I can take them to counseling. I can keep them safe. I can listen and empathize when they want to talk. I can be the best mom I can be. That is all I can do.

I am sorry you are hurting.
XXX

Butterfly

Thanks hopeful and sorry I thought he made these choices because of alcohol because I was standing in between him and his ability to drink? My understanding was that because of his addiction and how it alters thought processes nothing comes between him and alcohol??

Sorry I know I'm probably coming across as a daft.

Butterfly

Thanks thumper, dandylion and anvil.

Thumper, I've no issue with them speaking directly to each other I am however angry about the contents of those messages at times particularly when he's drunk and that he has arranged DS work experience which I am grateful for but hasn't shared any of the details with me it is me after all who will be getting him up and out in the morning, who does all the daily day to day care of him I'd like to know more about where he will be going, what he will be doing and his hours, but I will just have to wait for DS to pass on this information to me.

Sungrl

Said nicely.....

don't let your co-dependent nature transfer from your husband to your DS Butterfly. of course you have every right to be informed on his life. That being said, You shouldn't be having to get a 16 year old up in the morning, etc

Quote, getting him up and out in the morning, who does all the daily day to day care of him.

He should be learning to take care of himself.

Once again, just my 2 cents