getting sober the 2nd time
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getting sober the 2nd time
Just curious.. I hear people say that getting sober the second time is harder then the first. Why is that? If someone gets sober for a period of time and then relapses, what makes it harder to get sober again?
I am still trying to get sober for the first time. I am on day 2. I was just wondering.
I am still trying to get sober for the first time. I am on day 2. I was just wondering.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
I don't think it is harder, if you are talking about long-term sobriety. Are they are talking about long-term sobriety, not a month here and there? Because two attempts close together can lead to bad withdrawals.
Just do it right the first time and you'll never have to find out
Just do it right the first time and you'll never have to find out
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Thread Starter
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Posts: 164
biminiblue, yes I am talking about long term sobriety. If someone has lets say a year or more and then relapses, why would getting long term sobriety be harder the second time then it was the first.
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Hi.
Over some years of personal experience and observing others I’d say most don’t make it after a relapse for much time being sober. People have a feeling of letting people down, guilt, a very fast path to all sorts of personal disaster including many ending up dead and on and on.
I’m not a betting person but will say that +60% don’t end up with much sober time afterwards.
This disease has some serious consequences being that it’s Powerful, cunning and baffling.
I like the expression “If I don’t pick up the first drink I won’t have to try to get sober AGAIN.”
BE WELL
Over some years of personal experience and observing others I’d say most don’t make it after a relapse for much time being sober. People have a feeling of letting people down, guilt, a very fast path to all sorts of personal disaster including many ending up dead and on and on.
I’m not a betting person but will say that +60% don’t end up with much sober time afterwards.
This disease has some serious consequences being that it’s Powerful, cunning and baffling.
I like the expression “If I don’t pick up the first drink I won’t have to try to get sober AGAIN.”
BE WELL
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by IOAA2 
Also I read awhile ago something scary that said that only 3% of people who relapse and had been sober more than 10 years ever recovered again. I believe it.
BE WELL
BE WELL
I think if you ask a bunch of AA people, that is the type answer you get, because relapse is so frowned upon in AA - and there is so much pressure put on people in AA that in my opinion it actually works against someone trying for the second time. AA has a whole philosophy that intends to keep people in the program and anyone who stops "working" the program or who drinks has simply done it wrong. That's a convenient lashing to give someone.
I came into the rooms after an 18 year sobriety and then a second drinking career - I had not been to AA to quit the first time. I had many people in AA give me negative feedback about my sobriety and how to do it...and a few told me I had no chance if I left AA.
Reality was it was a decision. It was my decision. I had 18 years on which to draw. I knew what caused me to drink this second time. I went to AA ready to quit. I didn't need AA to stay quit, and I knew it due to my past experience. That doesn't sit well in the rooms. Granted you will probably tell me it isn't going to last and that eight months is not "really" sobriety. At least that's the party line.
I don't think you have any way to know the percentages of those who quit without AA and stay quit. Nor do you have any way to know what has happened to the thousands who left AA never to return. It's a guess.
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Well done on day 2 i havnt relapsed and this is my first time sober and when i first came to SR all i had was ppl relapsing all around me in aa and here on SR and D said something thst has stuck with me and will do for a long time which is ...
Relapse is part of my addiction it is not part of my recovery
Relapse is part of my addiction it is not part of my recovery
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Join Date: Nov 2014
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
Also I read awhile ago something scary that said that only 3% of people who relapse and had been sober more than 10 years ever recovered again. I believe it.
BE WELL
BE WELL
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OK, I can chime in here. I had 6 years. Tripped up a year ago. Stopped a week ago. I have to say the physical side of things is harder. I'm not sure if its because I drank harder towards the end this time, or maybe i'm a little older. Mentally its the same, but this time i have another reason to keep it clean, I dont want to physically feel like this again.
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
Hi. Over some years of personal experience and observing others I’d say most don’t make it after a relapse for much time being sober. People have a feeling of letting people down, guilt, a very fast path to all sorts of personal disaster including many ending up dead and on and on. I’m not a betting person but will say that +60% don’t end up with much sober time afterwards. This disease has some serious consequences being that it’s Powerful, cunning and baffling. I like the expression “If I don’t pick up the first drink I won’t have to try to get sober AGAIN.” BE WELL
I was sober for almost 6 years. I only went to AA regularly for the first 2 or so (court ordered). I was so much happier when I stopped going to meetings. I got tired of the negativity and seeing people relapse who were active in AA, come back and deal with all the guilt and shame and just be pushed right back out the door. Many died including one of my best friends. People in AA were so cold and judgmental to her after her relapse!!! 2 of my guy friends relapsed after 5+ years and rather than coming back to AA and being shamed, they killed themselves!
I feel 100% confident that these people died after relapsing because they had too much guilt over failing. I can never be a part of a group like this again! I've been praying a lot about whether or not to return to AA and I think this post is my answer. I'm DONE with AA!
AA basically says:
1. If you relapse you probably won't make it back.
2. If you don't go to lots of meetings you will never get sober
3. If you don't get a sponsor and do everything they tell you you will relapse
Blah blah blah.....
What AA doesn't realize is that there are LOTS of people who get and stay sober without them! Lots of other programs! AA says if you are an alcoholic and don't work their program & do exactly what they say....you will be either: 1. Miserable 2. Dead 3. In jail 4. Drunk
BS! Sorry but this post made me angry because I relapsed after 6 years. I CHOSE to drink a beer again with my husband last year. If I didn't have so much AA BS in my head I'd probably be ok. Thanks though....I'm officially closing the door on AA. And yes I am angry. And I'm sober...without having to be shamed by people in AA.
Oh and by the way you said "60% don't end up with much sober time afterwards". Well since we are throwing statistics out there....
"AA and the twelve steps are the most unsuccessful self-help program in human history, and even their own data supports this fact. 12-step rehab facilities have a 97% failure rate within 12 months. AA has a 95% dropout rate in the first year. Numerous studies show that those who take no formal action have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher success rate."
Surely those 95-97% of people who drop out aren't all dead? Lol. Maybe they are a all characters on "The Walking Dead" (Netflix). Ha
BUT HEY! If AA works for you then more power to you....just don't relapse!!!
Rant over. Oh and I'm sure someone will delete this post. :-(
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Originally Posted by Thepatman
For some a relapse can grind at the self confidence to beat the addiction.
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
Also I read awhile ago something scary that said that only 3% of people who relapse and had been sober more than 10 years ever recovered again. I believe it. BE WELL
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Originally Posted by IOAA2
Also I read awhile ago something scary that said that only 3% of people who relapse and had been sober more than 10 years ever recovered again. I believe it. BE WELL
AA and the twelve steps are the most unsuccessful self-help program in human history, and even their own data supports this fact. 12-step rehab facilities have a 97% failure rate within 12 months. AA has a 95% dropout rate in the first year. Numerous studies show that those who take no formal action have a SIGNIFICANTLY higher success rate.
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Originally Posted by biminiblue
Yeah, well that's totally not provable. I think if you ask a bunch of AA people, that is the type answer you get, because relapse is so frowned upon in AA - and there is so much pressure put on people in AA that in my opinion it actually works against someone trying for the second time. AA has a whole philosophy that intends to keep people in the program and anyone who stops "working" the program or who drinks has simply done it wrong. That's a convenient lashing to give someone. I came into the rooms after an 18 year sobriety and then a second drinking career - I had not been to AA to quit the first time. I had many people in AA give me negative feedback about my sobriety and how to do it...and a few told me I had no chance if I left AA. Reality was it was a decision. It was my decision. I had 18 years on which to draw. I knew what caused me to drink this second time. I went to AA ready to quit. I didn't need AA to stay quit, and I knew it due to my past experience. That doesn't sit well in the rooms. Granted you will probably tell me it isn't going to last and that eight months is not "really" sobriety. At least that's the party line. I don't think you have any way to know the percentages of those who quit without AA and stay quit. Nor do you have any way to know what has happened to the thousands who left AA never to return. It's a guess.
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Originally Posted by HOUMJM
Yes, I definitely believe that Statistic. I had 13 yrs, went out for 9, and now trying to get back in (have one 1 - TODAY). I often claim to not be scared of trying anything - but in back of my mind, have been increasingly fearful of getting sober again. Hard as hell coming back, just is.
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"Kindling" would be the significant physical cause that makes things harder.
Basically the more repetition of withdrawing from alcohol that takes place the tougher it becomes, each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal and severe withdrawal symptoms can develop all the way up the scale to seizures.
I agree though on the emotional strain of things too, when I first got Sober I then went back to drinking and the thought of coming back to SR or having to admit I needed help all over again was emotionally draining.
At some point some may simply never come back and give up!!
Basically the more repetition of withdrawing from alcohol that takes place the tougher it becomes, each withdrawal leads to more severe withdrawal symptoms than the previous withdrawal and severe withdrawal symptoms can develop all the way up the scale to seizures.
I agree though on the emotional strain of things too, when I first got Sober I then went back to drinking and the thought of coming back to SR or having to admit I needed help all over again was emotionally draining.
At some point some may simply never come back and give up!!
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OK, time to re-focus.
This is not a thread on AA and success stats.
I think there's a mental aspect. If someone with long term sobriety drinks again it really yanks the rug from under your feet. All that old self doubt and self loathing come into play...
if you don't think you're worth the fight, or you're convinced that you can't beat this addiction. that makes it really hard to fight back....ask me how I know
There is a physical side to it too..
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lly-again.html
I know if I went back to all day everyday drinking I'm not sure my body could handle it now.
It's hard to fight when you feel ill and weak but need to drink to stop feeling ill and weak...
it's a really vicious cycle - my advice to everyone reading is don't risk it.
Dee
Moderator
SR
This is not a thread on AA and success stats.
If someone has lets say a year or more and then relapses, why would getting long term sobriety be harder the second time then it was the first.
if you don't think you're worth the fight, or you're convinced that you can't beat this addiction. that makes it really hard to fight back....ask me how I know
There is a physical side to it too..
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...lly-again.html
I know if I went back to all day everyday drinking I'm not sure my body could handle it now.
It's hard to fight when you feel ill and weak but need to drink to stop feeling ill and weak...
it's a really vicious cycle - my advice to everyone reading is don't risk it.
Dee
Moderator
SR
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