LJ92

First I would like to greet everyone and say hello. This is my first post here
Second, I hope I placed this thread correctly.. so sorry in advance if I screwed it up, haha.

I chose to register here in order to get some advice with detox. My best friend (24) is an alcoholic and heroin addict. He has been a functional alcoholic (that is not an offensive term, right?) for about six years and heroin addict for four. But the last couple of weeks he has been unable to take care of college, get food, drink enough water, etc. The school said that they will allow him a few weeks of leave and help him with what he has missed and will miss, if he gets clean. He has finally realized how serious it is and actually asked for help, after he was hospitalized with an overdose.

I have never been with someone who went through a detox. My friend is able to go through a detox at home and I really want to help him. I know I cant really make it all go away but I can make sure he gets something to eat and drink at least.

Any of you with any advice on helping someone with a detox?
The reason I'm asking around is that he is unable to say anything about what he would want to or prefer. He cant handle thinking about that.
The doctor my friend went to has taken care of things like notifying the hospital if something should go wrong. Medication has also been prepared although my friend wants to avoid that. There is not any family to help out but there is someone from one of his classes to help after school. A counselor from his college has offered to come by every now and then, but we aren't sure if that will be a bit too much.
He is not violent but he can be a bit uncooperative and stubborn.

I also want to know what I can do for myself so I can be prepared. I have been going through everything about the warningsigns and who to call if what happens, so this is the "if nothing gets lifethreatning" things I'm thinking of.

I also don't want to start any arguments or heated discussions about this. I sadly got some rather negative experiences from other places. Some people didn't accept that neither my friend or I am religious or kept insisting that we should pray to god. Also some people said I was being irresponsible and a bad friend because I wanted to help with a detox at home. I know it's possible to do at a hospital or other facilities, but my friend refuses that. And in the end it's not something I can decide.. So I hope I haven't offended anyone or said something that sounds selfish. It is not my intention to provoke or cause trouble

Best regards

(Had some trouble with being logged out when I posted.. I hope my post doesn't appear as several threads :/)

glitterdeva

It is possible to detox from h at home, AH did it. He was sick for 3 days basically. He then went back to h shortly. Alcohol detox would depend on the severity of your friend's drinking. It can be pretty bad. Is there a reason why he doesnt or can't do inpatient facility - where they would wean him off everything gradually, introduce him to recovery program, AA/NA and stabilize him? I have learned via living with my heroin addicted AH that I am NOT a doctor If that makes sense. I cannot tell you how much time I spent trying to manage his health, his addiction and his recovery (mental/physical and spiritual). No, thank you. I am saying it from the bottom of my heart - leave it to professionals. Sending you positive thoughts...

SadWife7

My hubby was kicked out of my house when I found out about his heroin use, went to his moms & detoxed for a week then started an outpatient treatment program and maintenance meds. This was 7 months ago. Hubby & his mom have been invited to speak to a psychology/addictions class at a local college to talk about what they did because I guess pretty much everyone in the medical field they spoke with told them it wouldn't work. MIL did have one friend who has worked with addicts who gave her advice and its the same friend who's invited them to speak. I don't know. It seems like it should be possible to detox at home, as long as their is a plan in place for as soon as the wds are over because the cravings don't go away. MIL did take hubby to the er when wds got real bad, they scared the crap out of her, i think they gave him fluids & checked for any diseases ((none, thank god)) and blood pressure medicine that actually caused him to pass out because his blood pressure was low & meds were to lower it? Something like that. I'm glad I didn't have to deal with it, but i for sure would not have taken him to the er, or rubbed his feet, or coddled him in any way like his mom & sisters were willing to do for him. The muscle pains were terrible. Yea, as long as you can keep him hydrated, thats probably the important thing. I know his mom didn't sleep for at least 3 days, even when his sister tried to give her a break, but a big part of that was just being a mom going through something terrifying. If you've got your ducks in a row on what to do if you can't manage it anymore, then you'll be alright. Just make sure you take advantage of any help- sleep when the friend & counselor come over if you aren't able to get any sleep at night. I would call a treatment center, give them the basics on what is going on, ask them what you should watch for that you will need to get him to a professional for, and any other advice they may have for you. Just reassure them that you will seek a professional if needed if they try to give you any flack about it. Good luck to you!!! I hope for your sake my inlaws exaggerated everything trying to make me feel sorry for him so so i wouldn't divorce him oh, it was just heroin in his case, not alcohol too, so I don't know how that will effect the detox. Again, good luck, and i sincerely hope you both will only have to go through this once!!

incitingsilence

First be prepared to call 911.

Second if a counselor is willing to come and see him, welcome that. There is no such thing as too much professional help.

Third if you enlist the help of a doctor and then do not take the doctors advice … well see that is termed as driving the bus and the bus tends to crash when anyone helping or addicted is doing the driving. There is a set protocol for a reason that involves medications for not only opiate wd but for alcohol wd. If the questions were not asked, such as why a particular medication and what the doctor is hoping to manage well … Also I wouldn’t at all allow just any doctor to advise on wd. If this isn’t an addiction specialist then I would be wary.

Both drugs can cause hallucinations during wd and this will be something that can not be managed in home. Hell if won’t be anything that you could even prepare for.

No one will know what the severity or length of his wd will be. No one can predict if this will be a danger to him either because that tends to not be known until the kick is in full swing.

The most dangerous time for a heroin/opiate addict is just after the kick, because tolerance drops. Studies are indicating that both in home detox or short term detox in a hospital without any follow up care is more dangerous/deadly than just continuing to use in the moment.

Sometimes you have to do something, actually be in the moment before you realize this was something you never ever would do again. It was a lesson I learned!

I do understand your friends side in this too, and this will be a learning experience for him as well.

I do hope that things go as best as they possibly can for the situation.

hopeful4

If he is being difficult, how badly does he want this? I am not trying to be harsh, just honestly wondering. I would think a person who really wants recovery would be humble and thankful to have a friend so willing to help. I say this b/c you have indicated he can be a difficult person. I hope he has a plan of what to do after detox as if nothing changes, nothing changes.

I would seek solid medical advise from several people who deal with addiction. I would be prepared to be overwhelmed. I would welcome the counselor. I would tell him in no uncertain terms that you will call 911 if it gets too bad for you to handle and becomes a medical emergency. I would have a solid understanding about that up front. I would prepare for him to try and run, so protect your assets during this time (in other words, hide your purse, cell phone, medications, etc).

I commend you for being such a caring friend. I wish you both the best of luck.

cynical one

Just wondering, how much H has he been using and how? Also, how much booze he has been drinking? Has he detoxed off of either before? And, what are the meds he is refusing?

I ask because if he's detoxed before then kindling comes into play and excitotoxicity is always a possibility, both can cause permanent brain damage and the prescribed drugs may be a prevention.

What's your plan if he starts seizing? Do you know how to try to prevent him from aspirating?

DT's can also be fatal, do you have a way of monitoring his BP and sugar levels?

Unless you're in the medical field, by the time you realize he's in trouble it may be too late.

Best wishes to both of you.

Txhelp

I wouldn't recommend it. Not worth the potential risk nor he potential headache of attempting to monitor a friend that may be less then jovial-for days.

However, if you do...get as much information that you can from a physician, addiction specialist, etc.

chicory

I am there with cynical one....nothing I would try to do, no matter how much I researched it!

zoso77

Welcome to the Board. I'm glad you posted. You bring up a very difficult topic, one that finds its way into our community from time to time, and I'll treat this with the sensitivity it deserves.

In my view, attempting a detox from alcohol and heroin at home is not a safe thing to do. Without knowing or meeting your friend, it appears he believes he can control the detoxing process on his terms. My response to that is he's allowed alcohol and heroin to completely upend his life, so what makes him think he can detox on his own?

cynical_one asks the pertinent questions on the medical side. In a controlled environment, your friends vital signs can be monitored and the process is done as comfortably as it can be. Another advantage of going in-patient for a detox is aftercare is considered and planned post-discharge. What is your friend's plan for recovery?

If you are absolutely determined to help him do this on his own, you need to be prepared for what can go wrong.

Keep us posted.

MsSoonMrs

LJ92, please keep us posted on what happens and how it goes. My fiance has done his detox at home as well but I haven't experienced anything out of control from him. He tells me that the withdrawals suck and that he basically feels like he has the flu for a few days, but it's not a harsh environment for me. I just left him alone and didn't baby him and let him know that while I'm here to listen if he wants to talk, I'm also not going to baby him.

Please keep us posted. I'm interested to see how this goes.

LJ92

Hi again everyone. I'm really glad about all the kind thoughts and feedback I got
This post I'm writing right now was not my original response to the thread. I was almost done writing when my computer shut off without warning. And of course I didn't save a copy of what I have written so far.. sigh
I will try to reply to all the questions again but I dont have as much time now, having to write it again. So sorry if this is a bit all over the place and rushed.


I think there are several reasons why he is being a bit difficult - although he does want help - and not wanting inpatient treatment. He is very ashamed of his condition. Also because he is a med student he is afraid he will be considered an unfit doctor. Or that people will always suspect him of stealing medicine. We have talked to him about that there do exist people that work and has gone through addiction, and that they do just as good a job as their peers.
There is also alot of pressure from his family. They care much more for appearances of the family than anything else.
He also tends to shut down completely when he is outside. Normally he would be very social and outgoing but it's just too overwhelming now.

He has planned changes and already made some. He has cut off contact with people that only did damage (pressuring to drink and try different things, taking money from him and never paying it back because he would forget, etc) and has made an appointment with a therapist. He also doesn't want to live alone in the house anymore. It's a house that his parents own but they wouldn't allow others to live there with him unless he stopped drinking and taking heroin. I know he has felt lonely often in order to prevent causing troubles in his family, but he also wants to change that.
He will also try finding better alternatives to his migraines. He gets rather severe attacks that can last several days and that is how he was first introduced to heroin.

However he has agreed to being taking to inpatient care if it doesn't work at home. Like if we say it's not enough, we feel like we can't do it anymore, if he gets migraine, etc.

In terms of medical knowledge: A friend of his will be there. She is a nurse who has worked detox shifts before. I'm studying to become a PA and his classmate is also a med student. I know that student is not the same as licensed with experience. It's just to give an idea of the situation.

He is currently on around 0,8 to 1,1 gram of heroin and around 25 (used to be 40) units of alcohol a day. There has only been a somewhat exact number recently because he hasn't been keeping track for a long time. Or he tried to but forgot it the next day.
It's the numbers he has given us but he is going to a doctor for final bloodtests and general examination before the detox.
I do know that methadone and diazepam was suggested at one point for detox. But he is worried that his addiction will switch to that instead.
He hasn't detoxed before. Only cut down on alcohol which normally only works for so long.


Thank you everyone for a kind and knowledgeable welcome And again sorry if this post got a bit cut short.

zoso77

LJ92, I don't buy this. I think this is a load of bunk.

As a med school student, he should be more than aware of the high risks involved with detoxing at home. As a doctor, would he recommend a home detox to a heroin addict/alcoholic? I doubt it.

No, I believe he simply doesn't want to pay a price for the decisions that have led him to where he currently is. He doesn't want to be held accountable for his actions. And in that regard, he's just like any other addict.

Keep us posted.

incitingsilence

Let me ask you …

He has been using a long time.
Has he ever faced a consequence because of his addiction?
Has he ever been allowed to live in the madness he created, or has he had a host of moral compass pointers, protectors and saviors milling about?

High functioning …. You mentioned that earlier. Lets switch your thinking, is he high functioning or has he just surrounded himself with a group of enablers that are always willing to help keep him in line and somewhat on task?

Try not to make excuses for him, that won’t help him. He uses because he does. He gets stolen from because this is the lifestyle and what would one expect if they let other users in the home.

It sounds like he is trying to save everything and keep the status quo and that is the single biggest mistake most make. You can’t save anything you have to just stop and put the focus on yourself to have any chance. But this is a lesson that tends to only get through by actually doing in your way over and over and learning the hard way.

It is such a tough situation and it is always a conundrum for me because I don’t advocate in home detox but don’t advocate anyone kick alone. At least in the mix I know I will not allow a in home detox in my home ever again! And I have to think if you are asking at a place like this and others that you have concerns somewhere, that little voice within kinda being a pest…

Have you thought about it past him and his issue with alcohol and drugs?

Like the nurse, why would she risk her license like this? And yes she is putting her license at risk.
You and everyone else there may be risking your careers as well, even if you are aren‘t licensed yet.

I went out last night to catch the rocket launch, never ever thinking it would blow up … with all the safety checks, all the go’s over and over at different marks prior to launch that I was listening to while waiting … I am sure no one there until the engine fired had any indication of a catastrophic failure either.

Sungrl

The whole med student/alcoholic, heroin addict part disturbs me.

Even with recovery.

I think you are doing something extremely dangerous and irresponsible, IMO of course.

Twofish

Something just doesn't feel right about all of this...what is he protecting and to what cost?
He's a med student, he should know how dangerous this can be...to protect a family image or a potential career? What about his life? Doesn't that need protecting?
My recovering daughter has a best friend who is in pharmacy school...she is an opiate addict. She goes into w/ds monthly...but fears entering treatment, it could "ruin" her future pharmacist career. The judgement card...her parents, the Pharmacy school, the public in general..
She insists and does, on buying Suboxone and valium and other remedies, off the street, detoxes herself, gets sober for a few weeks and then it starts all over again, she says it's her reputation she is protecting.
This young woman was/is an honor student in High school (4.0 GPA but didn't get into the national honor society due to two underage drinking citations) Then college...wonderful, superior grades, Biology degree, but, she has a secret, she's an addict.
Her situation doesn't feel right either....
I've tried talking to her about getting help professionally, to save her life, before she destroys it by stealing medicine from the pharmacy where she works at, or worse, ODs on something she thought would help. However, I'm falling on deaf ears, I'm talking to the addiction...Can you see where I'm going with this? Where's the RECOVERY??
Very gently I'm asking you to step aside and think about the roller coaster you're on, or at least contact a PROFESSIONAL addiction specialist to advise you.
I tell you all this with kindness in my heart, please think about what I'm saying and what the other SR members are saying. Your heart is in the right place, but think with your head! You are in too deep.
Respectfully,
TF

LJ92

We have taken a step back and talked about it all. Turns out he is telling different things to all of us and he - perhaps luckily - can't keep track of his own lies. One was told it was heroin he had cut down on and he has given us different days for different examinations. And that he is being extremely manipulative. Feeling a bit like a fool now but I guess the blaming, lies and manipulating is normal in this situation.

Now I just feel like he is back to square one. And that he should just be dragged to someplace where he can be treated. But that might be because I'm a little mad too.
I do genuinely think that something in him wants help. He is unhappy with his current situation and he misses his old life. And the fact that he certainly knows the risks just makes it more frustrating.

zoso77

Well, you can't make him do something that he doesn't want to do, LJ92.

LJ92

Update: We did manage to get him into inpatient care although we are certainly not sure he will stay there. We went to his house and told him it was time to go and started packing for him. He kept switching between coming up with excuses for not going and helping out with where his stuff was and what he wanted with him. He also asked that his phone and wallet was taken away, aswell as help for getting to the car (he was very intoxicated). I did ask him if he was aware of that he was going into treatment and he said yes. But the skeptic in me has a feeling that he just agreed to it for now because it was the easiest. But at least he is there now and been taken care of.

Amysad

Lj92 - if you really care about your friend, it's time to let him make his own decisions and choices and back out. Your a very good person - that is clear. But it's time you take back control of your own life and recognize that codependent behavior can actually make his problem worse or at the very least keep it in full throttle. Sometimes saying goodbye (at least for now) makes the reality of the situation more impactual to the addict and may end up assisting the break from his choices.

9111111

Glad your friend changed his mind.

He seemed to be in a very rare position with having so many (future) healthcare proefessionals around to help him out.
Just wondering if there would have been any potential legal / professional license consequences for you in case anything would have gone wrong?

Best to all of you.