Boleo

" In order to find a God of our understanding, we first have to let go of all our old misconceptions about God, the universe, and ourselves, and make the ascent up Mount Sinai, following Moses into the Cloud of Unknowing. As we continue to climb further and further into the doubt and anguish of the Dark Night of the Soul, we use the twelve steps to guide us into a radical reframing of all the presuppostions of our lives. Disoriented within the infinite and all-encompassing Mystery, we discover the God of the empty altar -- the Altar to the Unknown God, the Agnôstô Theô --"

Alcoholics Anonymous Spirituality, Philosophy, and Religion

samseb5351

I am not sure exactly what this means. Could I get some more detail of meaning? Thanks

freshstart57

I think if you follow Moses up Sinai, you are going to bump into that Yahweh dude who is likely to kindly suggest that He is the real thing, no point in messing around with the impostors. I mean that's what happened last time.

Boleo

My interpretation of the quote above is that we should not be trying to name the g-word, define the g-word or claim any real knowledge of the g-word. 12 step recovery more or less supports this idea by using "Higher Power" as a place-holder for that which can not or should not be defined.

The Set Aside Prayer, sometimes referred to as "The Lay-Aside Prayer" is often found in roughly this format:

"God, Please help me set aside Everything I think I know About myself, my disease, These steps, and especially You; For an open mind And a new experience With myself, my disease, These steps and especially You."

anattaboy

I don't know! (Your version is of course better worded

Taking5

The quote provided in the OP is not anything from AA literature.

silentrun

The problem with that is you are expecting to find one. I think you need to back up a step there if you are trying to say you are pushing off the bottom.

Boleo

The quote came from Hindsfoot.org

A not-for-profit organization founded in 1993 for the publication of materials on the history and theory of alcoholism treatment and the moral and spiritual dimensions of recovery.

http://hindsfoot.org/

Hawks

"Dear God, please save us from what I suspect may become another fiery debate here on SR about who you are.... Amen

Love Hawks"

desypete

oh is that what this thread is about ??

well in that case i would want to build the alter to my chair leg

my hp is a chair leg and i dont have to pray to it each morning all i have to do is get up and **** my leg up and pass wind loudly it sure starts my day off in the right frame of mind and it works for me : )

anattaboy

wtf?

Hawks

A Gaseous spiritual release

Does that qualify taking a dump as the "immaculate birth"?

breath

I don't know who my higher power is, I just know I have one....

Boleo

OK. So this thread is not 100% secular nor is it using 100% AA approved literature.

However, It does fit in the gray area that this forum appears to be aimed at. My point is, the 12 steps can be worked with or without a god. With or without a defined higher power. With or without AA approved literature.

Alcoholism recovery is a journey, not a destination. We are all on the same path, just at different mile-markers.

desypete

now for that one i would agree with you 100%

the steps do work and are vital for recovery if someone really wants to change and find peace in the life and that means even without a god, it really is for me just about learning how to live a new life compared to my old life
being good instead of selfish, it takes actions to keep on doing this, a new routine in life is needed were i have to learn to think about others first etc

its hard but not impossible but with a lot of practise it starts to become a new habbit that is hard to break and the reward is peace most of the time with contentment with what i have rather than the unhappyness of what i dont have etc

MesaMan

We went here today.

The Rocks at the Canyon bottom >3,000' below are verifiably >1 Billion years old.

For me, this tends to 'calibrate' Existence, and the vastness of the Infinite...

Black Canyon Of The Gunnison Pix

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anattaboy

Love that signature MM.

samseb5351

I probably spent 4 years in my recovery reciting the set aside prayer, and there is indeed some value in setting aside all pre conceptions, knowledge and ideas of things we think we know. the difference for me was i took this attitude to everything and it slowly developed into skeptical inquiry. God was on the table as much as anything and when I applied that same kind of set aside attitude to my own beliefs and began to seek answers backed by evidence, I became an Atheist. The irony I guess I took this seeking thing more seriously than most, I didn't really have boundaries,, after all if a God of my understanding was something real to pin my life on then such a Higher Power would easily pass empirical enquiry. The more I realized I didn't know the more thirsty I became to find out and for the most part there were holes everywhere and could not not come up with any other conclusion then atheism. Today I am positive atheist today, keen for critical thinking.

anattaboy

Yup, me too. Not that particular prayer but the same idealism promoted by AA. I credit AA for my evolution to non-theist. Anatta is now my goal. Divorce of all wanting (at least lessening) removes the suffering. And if alcohol were the problem then why is there a forum at all? Gotta go--my 4 yr. old wants to go to the park NOW. She has picked up on the wanting thing pretty quickly.

trachemys

And if you would all kindly correct your spelling of altar, I'd appreciate it. God don't care. He spells in other than english.