How long can 'moderation' last?
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How long can 'moderation' last?
AH has convinced himself he can moderate his drinking moving forward. It's never worked before, but he's also never been faced with me leaving before. I'm just wondering how long the moderation phase can last? My assumption is that it can never work long term. And if that's true, I almost wish it would just fall apart now so we can be done with it. There's that part of me that keeps thinking... "But maybe I'm wrong!? Maybe he CAN actually figure this out without quitting altogether" though. I wish I had a crystal ball ~ that would make this so much easier!
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My STBXAH can moderate for a long period of time but then it always goes back to heavier drinking. In my opinion moderation does not work for an A. If any of them could control it and actually moderate, we wouldn't be here.
Mine has been able to do it for months at a time. That is what our "cycles" consisted of. Me getting upset over his drinking, him cutting down...moderating... being super great and helpful around the house and with the kids then slowly creeping back up to the level he once was at before or worse. Then I get upset, we argue about it and the whole cycle begins again. I did this for 8 years with him. It got to the point it was destroying me, always waiting for the bottom to drop. I finally had to jump off the merry go round.
It is an excuse to still keep that alcohol first and foremost in their lives. You, him and the bottle.
Mine has been able to do it for months at a time. That is what our "cycles" consisted of. Me getting upset over his drinking, him cutting down...moderating... being super great and helpful around the house and with the kids then slowly creeping back up to the level he once was at before or worse. Then I get upset, we argue about it and the whole cycle begins again. I did this for 8 years with him. It got to the point it was destroying me, always waiting for the bottom to drop. I finally had to jump off the merry go round.
It is an excuse to still keep that alcohol first and foremost in their lives. You, him and the bottle.
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JWN, go to the Alcoholism or Newcomers to Recovery forum and search "moderation". It should paint a fairly good picture of how well that particular plan works (though no one can say how long it will take before it inevitably falls apart).
If he thinks this is the way to go, then he has not accepted he is an Alcoholic. That right there is information you should take into consideration as you think about the future. Sending you strength and clarity.
If he thinks this is the way to go, then he has not accepted he is an Alcoholic. That right there is information you should take into consideration as you think about the future. Sending you strength and clarity.
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I think this is one of those Hot Topics where people have pretty specific opinions. I've read tons of threads about it in the Newcomers & Alcoholics forums & they are always really lively, interesting debates. You might get a lot out of checking those out by searching for them in the histories.
I personally think Moderation as a tool to manage addiction is just delaying the inevitable.
I personally think Moderation as a tool to manage addiction is just delaying the inevitable.
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Unfortunately - no crystal balls. It is different for each person and each attempt is different for each person.
My ex went from a year, to a few months, to a week, to not being able to moderate any time at all. It was progressive and each time the moderation ended, the addiction sank a little deeper.
Even at that moderate has different meanings for different people. For example my ex drank every day and over drank 3-4 times a week so when babies were born he cut down to maybe drinking twice a week or just having one or two a day and spending three weekends a month at his brothers (getting drunk I'm sure) and that seemed like moderation. I'm guessing other families with little kids would not have considered that moderate! We lose perspective.
Before that he'd only drink on weekends but he'd get horribly drunk. When he stopped doing that because of a job (but began drinking more days of the week) it seemed like moderation.
It is a game and it doesn't work.
My ex went from a year, to a few months, to a week, to not being able to moderate any time at all. It was progressive and each time the moderation ended, the addiction sank a little deeper.
Even at that moderate has different meanings for different people. For example my ex drank every day and over drank 3-4 times a week so when babies were born he cut down to maybe drinking twice a week or just having one or two a day and spending three weekends a month at his brothers (getting drunk I'm sure) and that seemed like moderation. I'm guessing other families with little kids would not have considered that moderate! We lose perspective.
Before that he'd only drink on weekends but he'd get horribly drunk. When he stopped doing that because of a job (but began drinking more days of the week) it seemed like moderation.
It is a game and it doesn't work.
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I almost wish it would just fall apart now so we can be done with it.
Because I think Yurt is right on the money. You don't have to stay. You're always free to leave.
That was something that was difficult for me to wrap my head around -- leaving felt like a choice, but staying didn't. Until someone said to me, "Every day you stay with him, you choose to stay with him."
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Justwantnormal.....your "name" makes me smile....isn't that what we all wish for?......sigh...
I have heard it said many times that the very fondest wish of every alcoholic is to be able to drink normally. It appears that they hang on to that possibility until the pain of the drinking becomes greater than their fear of sobriety.
I hear you that you are doubting yourself and wanting to believe that he is "right" about controlled drinking---because your desperate h ope is that he can control it and your own problem will be solved.
Here is where a thorough knowledge of alcoholism would be of help. Learn about it! The stickies at the top of this main page has a lot of valuable information about this.
Just look at the millions who are in AA and in recovery---all of those millions had the very same wish as your husband. Those who STILL have that wish....are the ones still drinking.....LOL!
I suggest that you take a long hard look at what your future is to be. The controlled or maintainence drinking can go o n for years. The rate of progression really depends on the particular individual.
Ask yourself if you need to wait for a "crash" and burn before acting for your own welfare. Ask yourself if you are willing to live in some sort of suspended animation while waiting for the final shoe to drop. Is your peace of mind really that disposable?
These are the questions that I suggest that you ask YOURSELF....because you are the one who has to exist in your own skin.
I have no idea of how he would react to your leaving. Every person has their own particular bottom. The bottom line, though, is that your decision should be based on your own needs and not on what his reaction might be.
dandylion
I have heard it said many times that the very fondest wish of every alcoholic is to be able to drink normally. It appears that they hang on to that possibility until the pain of the drinking becomes greater than their fear of sobriety.
I hear you that you are doubting yourself and wanting to believe that he is "right" about controlled drinking---because your desperate h ope is that he can control it and your own problem will be solved.
Here is where a thorough knowledge of alcoholism would be of help. Learn about it! The stickies at the top of this main page has a lot of valuable information about this.
Just look at the millions who are in AA and in recovery---all of those millions had the very same wish as your husband. Those who STILL have that wish....are the ones still drinking.....LOL!
I suggest that you take a long hard look at what your future is to be. The controlled or maintainence drinking can go o n for years. The rate of progression really depends on the particular individual.
Ask yourself if you need to wait for a "crash" and burn before acting for your own welfare. Ask yourself if you are willing to live in some sort of suspended animation while waiting for the final shoe to drop. Is your peace of mind really that disposable?
These are the questions that I suggest that you ask YOURSELF....because you are the one who has to exist in your own skin.
I have no idea of how he would react to your leaving. Every person has their own particular bottom. The bottom line, though, is that your decision should be based on your own needs and not on what his reaction might be.
dandylion
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Hi Justwanttobenormal
Every problem drinker I know has gone through the phase of trying to moderate their drinking. Speaking from experience, I too have tried many times to do this. I mean after all I can control so many other aspects of my life why not this. Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately this is one of the phases toward coming to the full on realization that this addiction has got you. First, it is well-researched that it is a disease of the brain that gets worse and worse as you use and as you age. (Actually it gets worse when you don't use as well). Second, the problem with moderation is that it sets up the obsession in the mind. The phenomena of craving comes in after the first drink and you either end up white knuckling it in order to not have another or you just give into the craving. The "trying to control it" gets tiring after awhile and you end up just giving into it.
Sounds like you hope that H will quit so that your life will return to normal. I would say that you need to take care of yourself now. Even if your husband does come into recovery you both would have to take care of yourselves first. My H and I do the 12 steps every morning together and have found great comfort in doing it. But it still comes down to my own or his own recovery. Hope that helps from the perspective of an addict.
Every problem drinker I know has gone through the phase of trying to moderate their drinking. Speaking from experience, I too have tried many times to do this. I mean after all I can control so many other aspects of my life why not this. Unfortunately or perhaps fortunately this is one of the phases toward coming to the full on realization that this addiction has got you. First, it is well-researched that it is a disease of the brain that gets worse and worse as you use and as you age. (Actually it gets worse when you don't use as well). Second, the problem with moderation is that it sets up the obsession in the mind. The phenomena of craving comes in after the first drink and you either end up white knuckling it in order to not have another or you just give into the craving. The "trying to control it" gets tiring after awhile and you end up just giving into it.
Sounds like you hope that H will quit so that your life will return to normal. I would say that you need to take care of yourself now. Even if your husband does come into recovery you both would have to take care of yourselves first. My H and I do the 12 steps every morning together and have found great comfort in doing it. But it still comes down to my own or his own recovery. Hope that helps from the perspective of an addict.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
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My stxah would moderate and it would last about a week maybe two. Moderation meant an 18 pack of beer. He never really got drunk he could just maintain. Then one night he will buy the vodka. The last time he did that I left again with bruises. That was 5 days ago. The bruise is still there. It gets worse every time. Empty promises and tons of them. Picture perfect life projection. Everything you want the relationship to be they will promise. And maybe even deliver a little. Mine didn't but I hear it happens. Then you will never see even one little thing materialize. The bottle is all important it's all they will ever care about. So sad.
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Mine always moderately progressed. She would reel it in then end up slightly worse before another reel it in attempt. Digging in the heals and slowly digging a deeper and deeper hole. Few break the laws of addiction. They may beat the addiction but very few do not sink deeper.
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last Dec you gave him the quit drinking or else talk....and he did not QUIT drinking.
later in December you posted here asking if controlled drinking WAS possible.
in July of THIS year you posted a letter to your AH in which you said:
You've tried and failed so many times to 'moderate' your drinking. It can't be done - you're an alcoholic. You need to just stop, and stop for good. That is the only option that will work. You need to seek out help through AA or an addiction councillor. You can't do it on your own.
I've been on this train before with my Dad. I know it only goes downhill. I know it only picks up speed. And I know it leaves a path of destruction in the lives of everyone it touches. The kids WILL suffer. This is a certainty. They won't learn what a healthy partnership looks like. They won't learn what 'healthy' drinking looks like - we'll be setting them up for a journey down this same road with their own lives. It WILL affect their self esteem and their sense of security.
You have the choice to stop the train and step off with me or keep going as you are, but you'll be on your own. I'm getting off the train. I'm drawing a line in the sand. I can't lose myself in your addiction. And I refuse to drag the kids through the consequences of living with an alcoholic parent.
and now you are asking if maybe he can moderate his drinking.
what do YOU think? do you still believe that the children need a healthier environment without alcoholism? do you really need HIM to do SOMETHING to make it ok for you to TAKE ACTION? you've been sitting waiting for him for a lonnnnggggg time...nothing changes if nothing changes.
later in December you posted here asking if controlled drinking WAS possible.
in July of THIS year you posted a letter to your AH in which you said:
You've tried and failed so many times to 'moderate' your drinking. It can't be done - you're an alcoholic. You need to just stop, and stop for good. That is the only option that will work. You need to seek out help through AA or an addiction councillor. You can't do it on your own.
I've been on this train before with my Dad. I know it only goes downhill. I know it only picks up speed. And I know it leaves a path of destruction in the lives of everyone it touches. The kids WILL suffer. This is a certainty. They won't learn what a healthy partnership looks like. They won't learn what 'healthy' drinking looks like - we'll be setting them up for a journey down this same road with their own lives. It WILL affect their self esteem and their sense of security.
You have the choice to stop the train and step off with me or keep going as you are, but you'll be on your own. I'm getting off the train. I'm drawing a line in the sand. I can't lose myself in your addiction. And I refuse to drag the kids through the consequences of living with an alcoholic parent.
and now you are asking if maybe he can moderate his drinking.
what do YOU think? do you still believe that the children need a healthier environment without alcoholism? do you really need HIM to do SOMETHING to make it ok for you to TAKE ACTION? you've been sitting waiting for him for a lonnnnggggg time...nothing changes if nothing changes.
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Originally Posted by lillamy 
What I'm reading is "I want to leave but since I've said my issue is his drinking, I can't leave as long as he's successfully moderating. Even though I want to." Is that close to what you're feeling?
I don't know why I feel like I can't? I think in some ways it's because I'll feel unsupportive, and my codependency prides itself on being such a supportive person. I also worry that if the kids ask me down the road why I left him, I won't have a 'good enough' answer. I don't know. I hate this.
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
last Dec you gave him the quit drinking or else talk....and he did not QUIT drinking.
later in December you posted here asking if controlled drinking WAS possible.
in July of THIS year you posted a letter to your AH in which you said:
You've tried and failed so many times to 'moderate' your drinking. It can't be done - you're an alcoholic. You need to just stop, and stop for good. That is the only option that will work. You need to seek out help through AA or an addiction councillor. You can't do it on your own.
I've been on this train before with my Dad. I know it only goes downhill. I know it only picks up speed. And I know it leaves a path of destruction in the lives of everyone it touches. The kids WILL suffer. This is a certainty. They won't learn what a healthy partnership looks like. They won't learn what 'healthy' drinking looks like - we'll be setting them up for a journey down this same road with their own lives. It WILL affect their self esteem and their sense of security.
You have the choice to stop the train and step off with me or keep going as you are, but you'll be on your own. I'm getting off the train. I'm drawing a line in the sand. I can't lose myself in your addiction. And I refuse to drag the kids through the consequences of living with an alcoholic parent.
and now you are asking if maybe he can moderate his drinking.
later in December you posted here asking if controlled drinking WAS possible.
in July of THIS year you posted a letter to your AH in which you said:
You've tried and failed so many times to 'moderate' your drinking. It can't be done - you're an alcoholic. You need to just stop, and stop for good. That is the only option that will work. You need to seek out help through AA or an addiction councillor. You can't do it on your own.
I've been on this train before with my Dad. I know it only goes downhill. I know it only picks up speed. And I know it leaves a path of destruction in the lives of everyone it touches. The kids WILL suffer. This is a certainty. They won't learn what a healthy partnership looks like. They won't learn what 'healthy' drinking looks like - we'll be setting them up for a journey down this same road with their own lives. It WILL affect their self esteem and their sense of security.
You have the choice to stop the train and step off with me or keep going as you are, but you'll be on your own. I'm getting off the train. I'm drawing a line in the sand. I can't lose myself in your addiction. And I refuse to drag the kids through the consequences of living with an alcoholic parent.
and now you are asking if maybe he can moderate his drinking.
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII
You've been sitting waiting for him for a lonnnnggggg time...nothing changes if nothing changes.
I guess I just keep hoping this time will be different, even though I know deep down he hasn't changed.
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I believe A's are allergic to alcohol. They are different then us, when we drink. If you feel he is a A then moderation or anything else will not work. His sobriety is not about you, its about him. So you need to detach and let him fall.
Take care of yourself and understand he will not get better till he stops drinking and works a program.
Take care of yourself and understand he will not get better till he stops drinking and works a program.
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Originally Posted by Justwantnormal
I guess I just keep hoping this time will be different, even though I know deep down he hasn't changed.
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I also worry that if the kids ask me down the road why I left him, I won't have a 'good enough' answer.
Also -- and I don't know that I've told this story before: When I left AXH, I had nowhere to go. I called a coworker whose number happened to be in my phone and she said "come right over." When we walked in, her husband (who was in his mid 50s) gave me a big hug and said "I just want you to know that you are welcome to stay for as long as you need to. I'm proud of you for doing what my mother never dared to do. I've wished for 40 years that she had done what you just did, to protect us."
For me, I've always been a people pleaser. I wanted to have something (I don't know what) that nobody could disagree with gave me the right to leave. I was afraid of being "the bad guy who broke up the family." I even thought "if only he had cheated on me, I could leave" or "if only he would hit me, I could leave." But the thing was -- that goalpost kept moving. By the time he did whatever it was I felt I needed to know that I was "allowed" to leave by some objective standards -- I no longer felt that it was enough.
For me, it really was the realization that his drinking -- much as I tried to protect them -- really affected the kids that made it possible for me to make the decision. Even after I left (after he in a drunken rage threatened to kill us all and then commit suicide), I carried a load of guilt for leaving. That was part of the codependency -- which I'm working through step by step.
And then one day my therapist said, "You always have an absolute right to leave a dysfunctional situation -- and you had a responsibility to take your children out of it." People had said it over and over again, but that one day, for some reason, I had gotten to a point of believing her.
I think what I'm saying is -- when you're a raging codependent, you don't see how damaging some of the alcoholic behaviors are to you (or to your kids). Now, when I think back or tell stories about my alcoholic marriage, I sort of shake my head and go "how on earth could I not react to that and see how screwed up it was?" -- but I didn't. I couldn't.
You have an absolute right to not live in a situation plagued by addiction. Marriage vows are serious -- but, as someone here likes to say, marriage is not a suicide pact. (((hugs)))
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