impermanence
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impermanence
I really struggle with the idea of impermanence and detachment sometimes. I love the important people in my life fiercely and the thought of losing them upsets me so much. I don't think this is all a codependent thing, I think it's a human thing for some people, because really, what matters more in life than your relationships with the ones you love? Maybe your relationship with yourself.
Just babbling here. I'm struggling today with the idea of losing my BF to addiction. My grandfather passed away. He was 93, so I am not really having a problem with him being gone. It just makes me think of how fleeting life is the vast timeline of the universe.
Just babbling here. I'm struggling today with the idea of losing my BF to addiction. My grandfather passed away. He was 93, so I am not really having a problem with him being gone. It just makes me think of how fleeting life is the vast timeline of the universe.
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I think I understand what you mean and I can certainly relate. I don't think struggling with impermanence or detachment necessarily relates to codependent tendencies - Struggling can mean lots of different things. Struggling that includes clinging, controlling, manipulating or doing unhealthy things to ourselves in an attempt to hold on - those to me are unhealthy aspects of a struggle.
To me accepting the reality doesn't mean it won't hurt and I won't grieve. It's still a process and still really difficult. Your family and loved ones are truly fortunate to have someone who loves fiercely. I believe that the saddest emotion of all is indifference.
I'm very sorry about your grandfather. Regardless of his age, I'm sure his death hurts and you miss him. I so sorry about your boyfriend too. I hope that in time he finds his way.
To me accepting the reality doesn't mean it won't hurt and I won't grieve. It's still a process and still really difficult. Your family and loved ones are truly fortunate to have someone who loves fiercely. I believe that the saddest emotion of all is indifference.
I'm very sorry about your grandfather. Regardless of his age, I'm sure his death hurts and you miss him. I so sorry about your boyfriend too. I hope that in time he finds his way.
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Hi readerbaby,
A topic that interests me very much also: attachment, commitment, loyalty when healthy... the extremes of these (avarice, addiction, etc)... and all the respective opposites that can be paired with these descriptions. How all these "forces" influence our lives as human beings.
Instead of concepts from Buddhism directly, I'll quote a description from a theory of personality that I really liked when I discovered it many years ago. It describes patterns of human behavior and what sorts of main motivations/fears drive us; it's a bit mysterious and esoteric in origin, but I've discovered so many truths and useful ideas in it.
It identifies 9 major forms of "personality patterns" and there are many authors conceptualizing and describing them. This is an older form, where they designate "non-attachment" (as a positive attitude) as the virtue of one of these types and discriminate it from "detachment" (as maladaptive).
"Virtue: Detachment [Nonattachment]*
Although Ichazo's original name for the Virtue at point Five is Detachment, we prefer the term Nonattachment to distinguish it from the emotional detachment caused by schizoid withdrawal—the rejection of one's feelings and need for nurturing. Non-Attachment contains no hint of rejection; in fact, it requires a radical acceptance of reality. It is the quality described by the familiar spiritual injunction to "be in the world but not of it." When we are present and abiding in our true natures, we do not cling to anything, inner or outer. Particularly, we no longer need to cling to the endless activity of the mind as a source of identity and orientation to the world. We feel at one with the unfolding universe and as if we contain it within us at the same time. Everything touches and transforms us, yet there is nothing that we need to attach our identity to; our existence is not based on anything, not our thoughts, not our feelings, not our body, not our perceptions. Everything arises and disappears in a state of profound stillness and peace.
This state of non-attachment also gives us a profound compassion for all living things because we see their transient nature. When there is no need to attach ourselves to any view, it is easy to be compassionate and forgivng ("Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"—"To understand all is to forgive all")."
I can't tell you how much I identify with this when in a healthy mindset... something I feel deeply in my mind and heart... but also with the opposites when obsessed and clinging to things too much.
This is the website if you are interested, it's pretty complex:
Enneagram History and Origins: The Traditional Enneagram
I definitely agree that what you describe is not necessarily a co-dependent feature. Co-dependency is just the extreme and dysfunctional form of our healthy tendencies seeking the company of others, without which our species would not have survived!
A topic that interests me very much also: attachment, commitment, loyalty when healthy... the extremes of these (avarice, addiction, etc)... and all the respective opposites that can be paired with these descriptions. How all these "forces" influence our lives as human beings.
Instead of concepts from Buddhism directly, I'll quote a description from a theory of personality that I really liked when I discovered it many years ago. It describes patterns of human behavior and what sorts of main motivations/fears drive us; it's a bit mysterious and esoteric in origin, but I've discovered so many truths and useful ideas in it.
It identifies 9 major forms of "personality patterns" and there are many authors conceptualizing and describing them. This is an older form, where they designate "non-attachment" (as a positive attitude) as the virtue of one of these types and discriminate it from "detachment" (as maladaptive).
"Virtue: Detachment [Nonattachment]*
Although Ichazo's original name for the Virtue at point Five is Detachment, we prefer the term Nonattachment to distinguish it from the emotional detachment caused by schizoid withdrawal—the rejection of one's feelings and need for nurturing. Non-Attachment contains no hint of rejection; in fact, it requires a radical acceptance of reality. It is the quality described by the familiar spiritual injunction to "be in the world but not of it." When we are present and abiding in our true natures, we do not cling to anything, inner or outer. Particularly, we no longer need to cling to the endless activity of the mind as a source of identity and orientation to the world. We feel at one with the unfolding universe and as if we contain it within us at the same time. Everything touches and transforms us, yet there is nothing that we need to attach our identity to; our existence is not based on anything, not our thoughts, not our feelings, not our body, not our perceptions. Everything arises and disappears in a state of profound stillness and peace.
This state of non-attachment also gives us a profound compassion for all living things because we see their transient nature. When there is no need to attach ourselves to any view, it is easy to be compassionate and forgivng ("Tout comprendre, c'est tout pardonner"—"To understand all is to forgive all")."
I can't tell you how much I identify with this when in a healthy mindset... something I feel deeply in my mind and heart... but also with the opposites when obsessed and clinging to things too much.
This is the website if you are interested, it's pretty complex:
Enneagram History and Origins: The Traditional Enneagram
I definitely agree that what you describe is not necessarily a co-dependent feature. Co-dependency is just the extreme and dysfunctional form of our healthy tendencies seeking the company of others, without which our species would not have survived!
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Join Date: Jul 2013
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Originally Posted by readerbaby71 
I really struggle with the idea of impermanence and detachment sometimes. I love the important people in my life fiercely and the thought of losing them upsets me so much. I don't think this is all a codependent thing, I think it's a human thing for some people, because really, what matters more in life than your relationships with the ones you love? Maybe your relationship with yourself.
Just babbling here. I'm struggling today with the idea of losing my BF to addiction. My grandfather passed away. He was 93, so I am not really having a problem with him being gone. It just makes me think of how fleeting life is the vast timeline of the universe.
Just babbling here. I'm struggling today with the idea of losing my BF to addiction. My grandfather passed away. He was 93, so I am not really having a problem with him being gone. It just makes me think of how fleeting life is the vast timeline of the universe.
Im sorry about your breakup too. To me codependency is very unhealthy attachment and not really love, its more like an addiction , very much like how someone loves their drugs. And I know thats not really love, its the brain thinking its necessity. But dont want to digress !! Im sorry is what I want to say, and I hope you can grieve and find a way to have peace with it.
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Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
The idea of impermanence should be taught to children from birth . . . it is so important to grasp this idea . . . instead, most of us are indoctrinated to think that people belong to us and that we have some kind of "right" to have a long life filled with "x" (specific) people.
I think Buddhist practices must be super helpful as a world view from a young age - but at the same time, it has been suggested that people living in Asian cultures are more likely to think of themselves in terms of "we," so the Buddhist ideas and the "we" self-identity seem to be at odds. I would love to hear discussion of this idea.
I think Buddhist practices must be super helpful as a world view from a young age - but at the same time, it has been suggested that people living in Asian cultures are more likely to think of themselves in terms of "we," so the Buddhist ideas and the "we" self-identity seem to be at odds. I would love to hear discussion of this idea.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: west coast
Posts: 1,068
The idea of impermanence should be taught to children from birth . . . it is so important to grasp this idea . . . instead, most of us are indoctrinated to think that people belong to us and that we have some kind of "right" to have a long life filled with "x" (specific) people.
I think Buddhist practices must be super helpful as a world view from a young age - but at the same time, it has been suggested that people living in Asian cultures are more likely to think of themselves in terms of "we," so the Buddhist ideas and the "we" self-identity seem to be at odds. I would love to hear discussion of this idea.
I think Buddhist practices must be super helpful as a world view from a young age - but at the same time, it has been suggested that people living in Asian cultures are more likely to think of themselves in terms of "we," so the Buddhist ideas and the "we" self-identity seem to be at odds. I would love to hear discussion of this idea.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 923
RB--I too struggle with what you have described...
Haennie--your post was a gift...as I have studied the enneagram for many years (at least 15) but had not read the piece that you posted...I love the part about non-attachment and find sense in the dangers of detachment. Am going to change my vocabulary right now...as am so struggling with the active addiction of my 22 year old daughter...and related issues around family (mine not theirs)--and the detachment process is so painful...although have also practiced that...non-attachment makes me reflect on the concept of freedom that we all want and need (along with the responsibility that goes with it) and I am grateful.
Haennie--your post was a gift...as I have studied the enneagram for many years (at least 15) but had not read the piece that you posted...I love the part about non-attachment and find sense in the dangers of detachment. Am going to change my vocabulary right now...as am so struggling with the active addiction of my 22 year old daughter...and related issues around family (mine not theirs)--and the detachment process is so painful...although have also practiced that...non-attachment makes me reflect on the concept of freedom that we all want and need (along with the responsibility that goes with it) and I am grateful.
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