I - Self - Me
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 250
I - Self - Me
We're addicts, and our AVs are incredibly self-centered. I've known this, intellectually, for quite some time. But I think now I'm beginning to really absorb the extent to which that reaches, the depth of what that means.
For so long, I've thought "chit chat" boring. If folks weren't talking about, solving, or otherwise pondering their problems or mine, I thought the conversations - dull. Why talk about the weather? What's for dinner? What shoes match your outfit? What game is on? Really? How BORING is that!
It just dawned on me tonight that perhaps that was my AV talking to - or at - all the non-addicts who led "normal" (or simply, much less dramatic) lives.
I now make it a sundry goal of mine to one day find myself talking about the weather (or X Y Z banality) and NOT finding it tedious.
As you were!
For so long, I've thought "chit chat" boring. If folks weren't talking about, solving, or otherwise pondering their problems or mine, I thought the conversations - dull. Why talk about the weather? What's for dinner? What shoes match your outfit? What game is on? Really? How BORING is that!
It just dawned on me tonight that perhaps that was my AV talking to - or at - all the non-addicts who led "normal" (or simply, much less dramatic) lives.
I now make it a sundry goal of mine to one day find myself talking about the weather (or X Y Z banality) and NOT finding it tedious.
As you were!
Molotov Kitty!
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Chicago IL
Posts: 60
Interesting observation, in general I used to tune out more. What I have done is try to be useful in what I say during those situations whenever possible. Whatever it takes to make that interaction more meaningful.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 4,251
This is so true rougedreams! I love to entertain and always fancied myself a great hostess. In reality, I am a great cook, great at setting the table, great at making the perfect playlist and great at cleaning up. I loved doing all of those things. But the actual being around other people while they rambled on about whatever... I could totally take it or leave it. I am in fact, a very poor hostess. All that mattered was that my glass was full of wine and that they were plenty of backup bottles available. I could pass entire nights barely aware of who I was with or what they were talking about- not because I was already drunk (though sometimes for that reason) but just because I was simply thinking about myself, me, my alcohol, my problem, my lack of care for my problem in that moment, more wine, more wine, more wine. Sad really.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
Irritable - Restless - Discontent
Irritable - What the hell is with 'normal' people, they seem genuinely happy discussing weather?
Restless - I wanna be somewhere exciting !!
Discontent - Is this all there is ? This is happy joyous & free in sobriety ?
Alcoholism ... its not just about drinking too much.
Irritable - What the hell is with 'normal' people, they seem genuinely happy discussing weather?
Restless - I wanna be somewhere exciting !!
Discontent - Is this all there is ? This is happy joyous & free in sobriety ?
Alcoholism ... its not just about drinking too much.
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Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
We tend to attach our self identity to things, people, places because we know not who or what the I is.
I am an...fill in the blank but are you really? If you take that association away are you still there? I am a Republican or Democrat...bbut what if you change parties? You still continue. You don't vanish - well maybe Pelosi would if water was poured on her:-)
When I attached expectations to things to identify myself then I stopped observing or learning and I closed myself off. I set myself up for failure to be disappointed - lack of contentment, which I have learned is synonymous with happiness. I used to confuse euphoria with happiness - how wrong I was.
Talking about the weather is like saying "what's up." In my experience people don't really want to know what you are going through its become as common as hello in most cultures and often a conversation preamble.
It is my experience that when I really changed inside I exuded an energy that allows others to feel comfortable and fully engage. I cannot tell you how many people have opened up to me on a plane flight. Strangers sharing their most intimate details. The only thing that changed was me, not them.
We have the power inside of all of us to make these changes we just need to tap into these sources and be open. Closed minded people live in denial with many resentments and I believe these were the core attributes that festered in my addiction and negative energy. I have not time or use for this anymore.
I am an...fill in the blank but are you really? If you take that association away are you still there? I am a Republican or Democrat...bbut what if you change parties? You still continue. You don't vanish - well maybe Pelosi would if water was poured on her:-)
When I attached expectations to things to identify myself then I stopped observing or learning and I closed myself off. I set myself up for failure to be disappointed - lack of contentment, which I have learned is synonymous with happiness. I used to confuse euphoria with happiness - how wrong I was.
Talking about the weather is like saying "what's up." In my experience people don't really want to know what you are going through its become as common as hello in most cultures and often a conversation preamble.
It is my experience that when I really changed inside I exuded an energy that allows others to feel comfortable and fully engage. I cannot tell you how many people have opened up to me on a plane flight. Strangers sharing their most intimate details. The only thing that changed was me, not them.
We have the power inside of all of us to make these changes we just need to tap into these sources and be open. Closed minded people live in denial with many resentments and I believe these were the core attributes that festered in my addiction and negative energy. I have not time or use for this anymore.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: CA.....Hometown : Sioux Falls
Posts: 2,624
I'm an introvert INFJ and when I'm in a social situation I find it hard to talk about things that aren't serious so to speak and don't feel like I fit in. It's a challenge going along in the conversation. I have a strong inner world instead of outer where most people are. I relate to the world more with feeling and emotions.
EndGame
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 4,677
In many cultures, old world and new, people intentionally talk about trivialities as a means of exchanging pleasantries in the lead up to discussing something more serious or pressing. It's built in to the culture. They also engage in such practices just to get to know each other better. In many places it is considered a sign of poor manners, insulting or a matter of insanity to do otherwise.
If I required each new patient to speak at length and in detail about their "problems" -- or about anything at all -- during their first visit, it would likely also be their last visit. I also make it clear from the beginning that I don't need to know everything about them. How, when and what they talk about should be their decision, not mine. (Unless doing so interferes with the work, but that's a whole 'nother issue.) We all value the freedom to express ourselves in whatever way suits us. And on our own time. Very few people, if any, feel safe and trusting when they believe they have to talk about something that's "serious" or self-revealing.
You never know where "chit-chat" will lead.
If I required each new patient to speak at length and in detail about their "problems" -- or about anything at all -- during their first visit, it would likely also be their last visit. I also make it clear from the beginning that I don't need to know everything about them. How, when and what they talk about should be their decision, not mine. (Unless doing so interferes with the work, but that's a whole 'nother issue.) We all value the freedom to express ourselves in whatever way suits us. And on our own time. Very few people, if any, feel safe and trusting when they believe they have to talk about something that's "serious" or self-revealing.
You never know where "chit-chat" will lead.
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 1,742
roguedreams, the pressure's on! x y z banality?
I don't mind talking about the weather, shoes, game times, hubcabs (well, maybe not hubcabs), my larger issue is (or at least, was) wondering if what I shared had any value at all. I erred on the side of 'less is more' and deprived others of getting to know me, and I, them. Small talk, like jdooner says, is a preamble to big talk, which reminds me of "Me talk pretty one day," a collection of essays written by a funny guy named David Sardaris. Do you know David's work? His sister Amy played the role of secretary in the movie Elf and also starred in the t.v. comedy, Strangers with Candy, and....oops....see where small talk can take a person....:-)
Of course, I am most voluble on the page. One writer, was it Joan Didion, admitted she was almost "neurotically inarticulate"....I can relate.
I don't mind talking about the weather, shoes, game times, hubcabs (well, maybe not hubcabs), my larger issue is (or at least, was) wondering if what I shared had any value at all. I erred on the side of 'less is more' and deprived others of getting to know me, and I, them. Small talk, like jdooner says, is a preamble to big talk, which reminds me of "Me talk pretty one day," a collection of essays written by a funny guy named David Sardaris. Do you know David's work? His sister Amy played the role of secretary in the movie Elf and also starred in the t.v. comedy, Strangers with Candy, and....oops....see where small talk can take a person....:-)
Of course, I am most voluble on the page. One writer, was it Joan Didion, admitted she was almost "neurotically inarticulate"....I can relate.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi roguedreams,
I absolutely had (and often still have) the same issue. This is something I actually recognized very clearly only in the past several months of my sobriety: that people and life are not always problems to be dissected and solved. And that I can hurt both myself and others if I behave that way too much. For a long time in the past I thought it was just my curiosity and love of problem solving... but being more aware and honest about it, it is also projection and obsession. And confusing depth and insight with overthinking and overanalyzing. I had comments from friends in the past many times that they were happy to see me in the rare moments when I felt more lighthearted and mellow, and I almost took at as criticism! We can burn ourselves out and stress others always thinking and talking about problems.
I've also recognized a dynamic in my SR presence in that the further I am into my recovery, the more I'm able to appreciate simple pleasures, but there is still a long way to go with it.
At this point I definitely think that my orientation towards problems has just as much to do with obsession as with curiosity, and it's no surprise, I've lived pretty much my whole life with various obsessions and such a mental intensity that scared many people. One reason why meditation is so helpful for me when I do it regularly... and simple activities, recognizing and admiring all the beauty in the world and life.
I absolutely had (and often still have) the same issue. This is something I actually recognized very clearly only in the past several months of my sobriety: that people and life are not always problems to be dissected and solved. And that I can hurt both myself and others if I behave that way too much. For a long time in the past I thought it was just my curiosity and love of problem solving... but being more aware and honest about it, it is also projection and obsession. And confusing depth and insight with overthinking and overanalyzing. I had comments from friends in the past many times that they were happy to see me in the rare moments when I felt more lighthearted and mellow, and I almost took at as criticism! We can burn ourselves out and stress others always thinking and talking about problems.
I've also recognized a dynamic in my SR presence in that the further I am into my recovery, the more I'm able to appreciate simple pleasures, but there is still a long way to go with it.
At this point I definitely think that my orientation towards problems has just as much to do with obsession as with curiosity, and it's no surprise, I've lived pretty much my whole life with various obsessions and such a mental intensity that scared many people. One reason why meditation is so helpful for me when I do it regularly... and simple activities, recognizing and admiring all the beauty in the world and life.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 250
I absolutely hands-down appreciate all these insightful perspectives! Much food for thought.
I think perhaps my biggest mental curiosity at the moment now is - what is ME and what is my addiction? How do I differentiate the two?
I can appreciate the value/point of small talk, from an objective "this is what this is for" standpoint; however, it's difficult for me to let that small stuff flow naturally.
It's rather like reading fiction ... I used to read sci-fi/fantasy all the time. For years now, it's been only non-fiction and self-help. I would LOVE to return to (what my mind calls) "frivolous" reading, but there's this voice inside me that stops me by saying, "What's the point?" It's this almost puritanical harsh master of a voice. Why mince words, why parley, why beat around the bush, why "waste time" on the little things, the little delicacies of life? - because yes, I DO see the "dance" of small talk; I can appreciate the deeper value of garnering life lessons from fiction. But there's something in me that disallows me, that prevents me from doing it.
And I'm curious if that's the addict in me, that pares down life to the bare essentials, so that I can spend all my superfluous energy on said addiction.
Just a few musings. I absolutely LOVED the replies, all the different perspectives. I really think that there's been several nails hit on the head above ... grateful for the varying input!
I think perhaps my biggest mental curiosity at the moment now is - what is ME and what is my addiction? How do I differentiate the two?
I can appreciate the value/point of small talk, from an objective "this is what this is for" standpoint; however, it's difficult for me to let that small stuff flow naturally.
It's rather like reading fiction ... I used to read sci-fi/fantasy all the time. For years now, it's been only non-fiction and self-help. I would LOVE to return to (what my mind calls) "frivolous" reading, but there's this voice inside me that stops me by saying, "What's the point?" It's this almost puritanical harsh master of a voice. Why mince words, why parley, why beat around the bush, why "waste time" on the little things, the little delicacies of life? - because yes, I DO see the "dance" of small talk; I can appreciate the deeper value of garnering life lessons from fiction. But there's something in me that disallows me, that prevents me from doing it.
And I'm curious if that's the addict in me, that pares down life to the bare essentials, so that I can spend all my superfluous energy on said addiction.
Just a few musings. I absolutely LOVED the replies, all the different perspectives. I really think that there's been several nails hit on the head above ... grateful for the varying input!
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Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
Personally, I have looked and found a very fragile, emotionally delicate and rather immature boy, despite the fact that the outside world sees a 6ft2, 250lb grown mature man.
It's been scientifically proven that alcohol in excessive amounts leads to emotional retardation.
I just found out I get to " grow up" again at age 42.
It's actually kind of cool, at least I think so anyway.
It's been scientifically proven that alcohol in excessive amounts leads to emotional retardation.
I just found out I get to " grow up" again at age 42.
It's actually kind of cool, at least I think so anyway.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
Originally Posted by whalebelow2 
Personally, I have looked and found a very fragile, emotionally delicate and rather immature boy, despite the fact that the outside world sees a 6ft2, 250lb grown mature man.
It's been scientifically proven that alcohol in excessive amounts leads to emotional retardation.
I just found out I get to " grow up" again at age 42.
It's actually kind of cool, at least I think so anyway.
It's been scientifically proven that alcohol in excessive amounts leads to emotional retardation.
I just found out I get to " grow up" again at age 42.
It's actually kind of cool, at least I think so anyway.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Berwick
Posts: 128
Off topic, but I see you are a bit of a "Dead Head"
I have a book of every song lyric the GD wrote.
Link here
Booktopia - The Complete Annotated "Grateful Dead" Lyrics by David G. Dodd, 9780743277495. Buy this book online.
I have a book of every song lyric the GD wrote.
Link here
Booktopia - The Complete Annotated "Grateful Dead" Lyrics by David G. Dodd, 9780743277495. Buy this book online.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 250
Funny, I've been telling my AV today that I'm too young to drink 
It's refreshing and relaxing to "pretend" I'm 16, 18 again; it takes the pressure off the demand to perform like I'm 30. I really AM about 16; my job qualifications and my emotional stability (or lack thereof) are about in parallel with a teenager. Humbling, but rather refreshing to accept it as it is as well.
It's refreshing and relaxing to "pretend" I'm 16, 18 again; it takes the pressure off the demand to perform like I'm 30. I really AM about 16; my job qualifications and my emotional stability (or lack thereof) are about in parallel with a teenager. Humbling, but rather refreshing to accept it as it is as well.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 3,359
You have the rest of your life to catch up to your age. I just love the time sobriety gives you back.
Been known to attend a couple GD shows. Truth be told Pink Floyd is kind of my thing Syd, Gilmour. Love Simon and Garfunkel, Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds. Newer stuff, The National, Lana Del Rey, Dido, Sarah McLachlan. I got into EDM for a while - learned how to create my own remixes using Abelton etc, but I think that may have been a manifestation of my active addictions and wanting to be desired by younger generations. I do like Tiesto but I think its like Rihanna - more of a show than a talent...fits the image vs. the actual artist - many differ though.
Been known to attend a couple GD shows. Truth be told Pink Floyd is kind of my thing Syd, Gilmour. Love Simon and Garfunkel, Dave Mathews and Tim Reynolds. Newer stuff, The National, Lana Del Rey, Dido, Sarah McLachlan. I got into EDM for a while - learned how to create my own remixes using Abelton etc, but I think that may have been a manifestation of my active addictions and wanting to be desired by younger generations. I do like Tiesto but I think its like Rihanna - more of a show than a talent...fits the image vs. the actual artist - many differ though.
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