Parenting Planning when Considering an A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Nowhere, VA
Posts: 540
Parenting Planning when Considering an A
So I am filing for custody tomorrow (where I am you have to make an appointment to do that..).
I had a consult with a lawyer and I wanted to get some of your opinions. When dealing with a controlling alcoholic (is there any other kind though?) sometimes it feels like we have to let them think they have control of some things. She advised that I could apply for sole custody, or I could apply for Primary Physical and Joint Legal. Joint legal meaning that we would have to discuss things like schools, doctors, etc. but she would primarily live with me. I think that in a normal situation that might be okay. But I can see him wanting to argue with any big decision and us ending up going back to court over it.
I was also looking at parenting plan ideas. I want to have 1-2 options to give the judge on our first court date. I know it will be a brief court session on the first go 'round but my lawyer said it wouldn't hurt to put one out there if I wanted. I have 2 that I like, 1 that I don't. The first one I like would be he gets to have her every other weekend during the day but not over night (10 am to 7pm both saturday and sunday) and then every Wednesday from 5:30-7.
The second one I think might be okay (if he will agree to prove he hasnt been drinking by a breathalizer or whatever is used in this type of situation), is every other Saturday she stays over night from 10 am saturday to Sunday evening. Again, only if he can prove he hasn't been drinking and can pass a drug test.
What kind of problems/solutions have any of you had when it came to formulating a schedule?
I had a consult with a lawyer and I wanted to get some of your opinions. When dealing with a controlling alcoholic (is there any other kind though?) sometimes it feels like we have to let them think they have control of some things. She advised that I could apply for sole custody, or I could apply for Primary Physical and Joint Legal. Joint legal meaning that we would have to discuss things like schools, doctors, etc. but she would primarily live with me. I think that in a normal situation that might be okay. But I can see him wanting to argue with any big decision and us ending up going back to court over it.
I was also looking at parenting plan ideas. I want to have 1-2 options to give the judge on our first court date. I know it will be a brief court session on the first go 'round but my lawyer said it wouldn't hurt to put one out there if I wanted. I have 2 that I like, 1 that I don't. The first one I like would be he gets to have her every other weekend during the day but not over night (10 am to 7pm both saturday and sunday) and then every Wednesday from 5:30-7.
The second one I think might be okay (if he will agree to prove he hasnt been drinking by a breathalizer or whatever is used in this type of situation), is every other Saturday she stays over night from 10 am saturday to Sunday evening. Again, only if he can prove he hasn't been drinking and can pass a drug test.
What kind of problems/solutions have any of you had when it came to formulating a schedule?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 3,443
I have primary physical custody and joint legal custody. That has never been a problem for me. I've never consulted him on any decision and he hasn't interfered with any. With a few glaring exceptions when things were bad he isn't the type to create much of a ruckus though. YMMV of course. If you think it will be a problem file for sole custody.
My state has a standard visitation schedule listed on-line. I went with that because unless he fought for something different (and fat chance because he was active then) there is basically no fighting in court - the judges just always use it. In hindsight I wish I'd have stood up for no overnights. He was still drinking when we separated and I should not have let the kids stay overnight with him
Personally I would not go down the path of breathalyzers. What a nightmare. If a breathalyzer kept an alcoholic honest and sober we'd have a different world.
My state has a standard visitation schedule listed on-line. I went with that because unless he fought for something different (and fat chance because he was active then) there is basically no fighting in court - the judges just always use it. In hindsight I wish I'd have stood up for no overnights. He was still drinking when we separated and I should not have let the kids stay overnight with him
Personally I would not go down the path of breathalyzers. What a nightmare. If a breathalyzer kept an alcoholic honest and sober we'd have a different world.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
My kids are older, we do every other wknd and every tues all overnight. On the weekend it's 6pm fri night usually until around noon on Sunday (they just come home w/me after church).
I have it in my parenting plan that I have the right to have him take an alcohol test if I suspect he has been drinking (or he can test me lol) and that he has to pay for the test if it's positive. I also have that I do not have to turn said children over to him if I suspect he has been drinking unless he can pass the test. You may want to PM Stung, she does the Soberlink thing where he has to blow, but her AH has agreed to it. My attorney told me no way would the courts agree to making my XAH blow every time he is around kids, so this was my next best measure.
Luckily, for now, my X has seen what his drinking does to our kids and seems to not be drinking around them. I don't know how long that will last, so I am prepared for the future. My attorney could not believe that my XAH agreed to what he did as it also states that he may not have drank 12 hours before visiting w/them, cannot call them under the influence of ANY alcohol, nor may he have it in his home, nor may he take them anywhere alcohol is served at any time. Same with drugs (he does not do street drugs). I also stated he may not consume Rx drugs over what is prescribed with children or 12 hours before, same testing rights. It's very tight language but my X knew I would fight tooth and nail to get that put in no matter what. I also told him if I had to fight I was going for an at fault divorce where he pays as much as I can get him to pay, including all attorneys fees.
Now, this is in my final divorce, not something to come up with on the first go round necessarily as he may freak out and not agree to any of this for you. I would try for whichever option you think fits best and add some simple anti drinking wording.
Good luck to you, keep us updated and stay safe!
I have it in my parenting plan that I have the right to have him take an alcohol test if I suspect he has been drinking (or he can test me lol) and that he has to pay for the test if it's positive. I also have that I do not have to turn said children over to him if I suspect he has been drinking unless he can pass the test. You may want to PM Stung, she does the Soberlink thing where he has to blow, but her AH has agreed to it. My attorney told me no way would the courts agree to making my XAH blow every time he is around kids, so this was my next best measure.
Luckily, for now, my X has seen what his drinking does to our kids and seems to not be drinking around them. I don't know how long that will last, so I am prepared for the future. My attorney could not believe that my XAH agreed to what he did as it also states that he may not have drank 12 hours before visiting w/them, cannot call them under the influence of ANY alcohol, nor may he have it in his home, nor may he take them anywhere alcohol is served at any time. Same with drugs (he does not do street drugs). I also stated he may not consume Rx drugs over what is prescribed with children or 12 hours before, same testing rights. It's very tight language but my X knew I would fight tooth and nail to get that put in no matter what. I also told him if I had to fight I was going for an at fault divorce where he pays as much as I can get him to pay, including all attorneys fees.
Now, this is in my final divorce, not something to come up with on the first go round necessarily as he may freak out and not agree to any of this for you. I would try for whichever option you think fits best and add some simple anti drinking wording.
Good luck to you, keep us updated and stay safe!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Alaska
Posts: 2,913
I was awarded primary physical and sole legal custody; AXH voluntarily gave up legal custody. Before that happened, though, I was astounded by how oppositional AXH became: He didn't like DS's school; he didn't like DS's doctor; he certainly wasn't going to sign any authorization for DS to see a counselor/play therapist. So if you think your STBX would be difficult to work with on big decisions, I'd stick by the sole legal custody.
The other big problem that I had was that AXH didn't want any kind of schedule at all. He wanted to be able to swing by and pick up DS whenever he felt like it. Nothing I would have proposed would have been acceptable for him. The court didn't take my proposed schedule anyway, they used it as a starting point and made their own.
DS's visits with his father were to be supervised. The court allowed his family (my xSIL and xFIL) and his then-GF to be the supervisors. They were supposed to report to the court if AXH drank or used drugs or behaved abusively. Therefore, the court didn't require testing.
AXH got DS 2 out of every three weekends from Saturday noon to Sunday evening. On the 3rd weekend (the "Mother's Weekend"), AXH got DS for the afternoon on Sunday.
Downsides to that arrangement:
The family/SO supervisors didn't really abide by the rules. They didn't stay the full visit. No one reported AXH's drinking to the court.
The schedule _sucked_. I felt like I mainly got the responsible-parent time (get DS up, ready for school, dropped off, off to work, pick DS up from after school care, get home, make dinner, get DS to bed, do housework/repairs/shovel, crash, repeat). DS didn't like it either. "I never get to play with you anymore, Mom, or go to my friends' birthdays." I should have asked that the Sunday afternoon/dinner be changed to a week night dinner.
Upside: The GF finally got an RO against AXH because of his abusive behavior, so even if she didn't report his drinking or abuse to the divorce judge, I was able to report it and had proof that he hadn't changed.
The other big problem that I had was that AXH didn't want any kind of schedule at all. He wanted to be able to swing by and pick up DS whenever he felt like it. Nothing I would have proposed would have been acceptable for him. The court didn't take my proposed schedule anyway, they used it as a starting point and made their own.
DS's visits with his father were to be supervised. The court allowed his family (my xSIL and xFIL) and his then-GF to be the supervisors. They were supposed to report to the court if AXH drank or used drugs or behaved abusively. Therefore, the court didn't require testing.
AXH got DS 2 out of every three weekends from Saturday noon to Sunday evening. On the 3rd weekend (the "Mother's Weekend"), AXH got DS for the afternoon on Sunday.
Downsides to that arrangement:
The family/SO supervisors didn't really abide by the rules. They didn't stay the full visit. No one reported AXH's drinking to the court.
The schedule _sucked_. I felt like I mainly got the responsible-parent time (get DS up, ready for school, dropped off, off to work, pick DS up from after school care, get home, make dinner, get DS to bed, do housework/repairs/shovel, crash, repeat). DS didn't like it either. "I never get to play with you anymore, Mom, or go to my friends' birthdays." I should have asked that the Sunday afternoon/dinner be changed to a week night dinner.
Upside: The GF finally got an RO against AXH because of his abusive behavior, so even if she didn't report his drinking or abuse to the divorce judge, I was able to report it and had proof that he hadn't changed.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,423
Whatever you decide, have the foresight to realise that he is an A & he'll probably get worse & do you want your children stuck in his custody when their safety could be compromised?
I would start with supervised visits if I was you & if he can then prove himself move on from there, at least you would know your children would be protected for now.
My 50 cents worth.
(PS: I have day to day care, children go fathers Thur-Sun 1 week & weds overnight the following week, the parenting plan didn't work for us (was every 2nd weekend) & 7/8 years later I am battling custody again, final parenting order to come via final court hearing)
I would start with supervised visits if I was you & if he can then prove himself move on from there, at least you would know your children would be protected for now.
My 50 cents worth.
(PS: I have day to day care, children go fathers Thur-Sun 1 week & weds overnight the following week, the parenting plan didn't work for us (was every 2nd weekend) & 7/8 years later I am battling custody again, final parenting order to come via final court hearing)
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Nowhere, VA
Posts: 540
I think what I will aim for is the 10 am to 6 pm alternating Saturdays and Sundays & then 1 night a week from 5:30 to 7.
In VA there is not standard visitation schedule. They want the child to have equal oppurtunities to see both parents. My dad, who was physically abusive to my mom (and eventually to my brother) and was a drug addict somehow got custody of my brother from my mom. But we were older (twins) so he could choose too. I guess knowing that he could get custody makes me nervous with xabf.
Since she is so young and I am the one who primarily takes care of her, I want to file for sole custody. Even if he actually did put in input on the big decisions, it wouldn't be based on her best interest.
Thanks for the input. I go tomorrow to file for custody. He will never agree to my parenting plan but I hope that a judge will see through him when we finally do go to court. I just want a set schedule, I'm tired of this visiting every other day for 30 minutes crap!
In VA there is not standard visitation schedule. They want the child to have equal oppurtunities to see both parents. My dad, who was physically abusive to my mom (and eventually to my brother) and was a drug addict somehow got custody of my brother from my mom. But we were older (twins) so he could choose too. I guess knowing that he could get custody makes me nervous with xabf.
Since she is so young and I am the one who primarily takes care of her, I want to file for sole custody. Even if he actually did put in input on the big decisions, it wouldn't be based on her best interest.
Thanks for the input. I go tomorrow to file for custody. He will never agree to my parenting plan but I hope that a judge will see through him when we finally do go to court. I just want a set schedule, I'm tired of this visiting every other day for 30 minutes crap!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Powerless ... and free
Posts: 201
A few thoughts:
* Sole legal custody is really helpful when the A is NPD/controlling. An A may contest a child's need for therapy, need for dental care, or other issues - particularly if the A is required to pay any of the costs for those things. If you can get sole legal, do so. Otherwise, you might later get it incrementally - for example, if the A disagrees on therapy, ask the judge to give you decision making over that area.
* Your child may be young now, but the return time you set may need to be earlier if school starts early in the morning, so you can get a reasonable bedtime. Many schedules go with 6 p.m. return time on Sundays or during the school week. If you set a precedent now of a later return time, it may be harder to change later.
* Setting a boundary to ensure the child's safety - this is the biggest issue, for me. In my area, even with overwhelming evidence the parent is an active A, supervised visitation is only temporary. Ugh. Soberlink is a good solution because it gets you out of the testing nanny business (as with breathalyzers). I wouldn't suggest random testing; PM me if you want to know the many ways As can evade those.
Good luck!
* Sole legal custody is really helpful when the A is NPD/controlling. An A may contest a child's need for therapy, need for dental care, or other issues - particularly if the A is required to pay any of the costs for those things. If you can get sole legal, do so. Otherwise, you might later get it incrementally - for example, if the A disagrees on therapy, ask the judge to give you decision making over that area.
* Your child may be young now, but the return time you set may need to be earlier if school starts early in the morning, so you can get a reasonable bedtime. Many schedules go with 6 p.m. return time on Sundays or during the school week. If you set a precedent now of a later return time, it may be harder to change later.
* Setting a boundary to ensure the child's safety - this is the biggest issue, for me. In my area, even with overwhelming evidence the parent is an active A, supervised visitation is only temporary. Ugh. Soberlink is a good solution because it gets you out of the testing nanny business (as with breathalyzers). I wouldn't suggest random testing; PM me if you want to know the many ways As can evade those.
Good luck!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by SoaringSpirits 
Soberlink is great. I highly recommend asking for this no matter which plan! It has given me peace of mind when kids are with xah.
It is a great solution for now...it will keep your child safe. If you get an email saying he has failed to pass the drug test make sure your court orders give you the right to immediately pick up the child.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
I wanted Soberlink, but the state I live in has zero experience with it.
We each made our requests of the court, and of course didn't agree, so I requested a neutral Guardian Ad Litem to come in and make a recommendation. It's a few hundred extra, but it gives you a chance to present all your unofficial evidence -- hearsay, general patterns of behavior, opinions about his safety -- but remember he gets to present his too and you will have to answer for it -- and the GAL makes a recommendation off of your work with him/her. I've seen it go very smoothly (my case) and go VERY poorly. It totally depends on your state, if they're available at all, and who you get. Ask your lawyer about this option too.
We have textbook joint custody with visitation, every other major holiday, split Christmas -- but also no extended summer visits and 100% supervised visits. My DD is 3 and I've been her primary caregiver since Day 1. My XAH was in rehab again before I was off of maternity leave.
We each made our requests of the court, and of course didn't agree, so I requested a neutral Guardian Ad Litem to come in and make a recommendation. It's a few hundred extra, but it gives you a chance to present all your unofficial evidence -- hearsay, general patterns of behavior, opinions about his safety -- but remember he gets to present his too and you will have to answer for it -- and the GAL makes a recommendation off of your work with him/her. I've seen it go very smoothly (my case) and go VERY poorly. It totally depends on your state, if they're available at all, and who you get. Ask your lawyer about this option too.
We have textbook joint custody with visitation, every other major holiday, split Christmas -- but also no extended summer visits and 100% supervised visits. My DD is 3 and I've been her primary caregiver since Day 1. My XAH was in rehab again before I was off of maternity leave.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
My XAH did not realize that in this state it is standard to get kids six weeks in the summer. My attorney took that out and replaced with one week, he was none the wiser as he repped himself. We did not have to go to court, just hammered it all out between us. Huge relief as there is no way my kids would have been willing to stay w/him for six weeks.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I hope it went well. I'm late with my thoughts but they were exactly along the lines of what you were planning.
Overnights with an alcoholic on a weekend would be worrisome for me. Also, you can always start with filing for sole custody and then have it negotiated down to joint legal if the judge questions it.
I hope it all went well.
Overnights with an alcoholic on a weekend would be worrisome for me. Also, you can always start with filing for sole custody and then have it negotiated down to joint legal if the judge questions it.
I hope it all went well.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
