allinon

I am meeting with an attorney today..... just to learn what my rights and responsibilities are within my state (Louisiana).

To recap: I had a major "aha" moment on July 4th and realized through the eyes/words of my DD19 (home for summer from college) that my husband of 30 years is an alcoholic. These last two months (exactly to the day) have been such a time of growth for me. I've been on here, gone to Al-Anon, read books such as Boundaries, Codependent No More, How Al-Anon works, etc. I've also read Patricia Evans' books on Verbal Abuse, which I highly recommend. I've been to see a doctor for the first time in several years and am now seeing a therapist. My doctor ran several tests which showed that I have stage 3 adrenal fatigue. I realize that I need to make major changes in my life for my health or I'll die or be so sick that I will be a burden for my children just as they are starting out in life.

I realized that since 1988 (26 years) my husband has been verbally abusive with me and my two now grown children (DD19 & DS23), despite numerous talks and attempts to explain that his anger and words make us feel terrified. (I thought it was just because I was too sensitive or hormonal or yada yada.) He has had drunken tirades on occasion over the years, but for the last year I realized the drinking is more frequent and he's remembering less and less. Yet he continues to function at work...

So I'm going to see an attorney today, just to discuss my options and rights. I have no physical evidence that my husband is an alcoholic nor an abuser....no DUIs, no bruises from hitting,etc. I am on disability and want to know if I could get spousal support....and if I need to have proof of either of these to get it.

My husband is a federal employee and I know I can get medical coverage through him after divorce, as well as half his pension and thrift savings plan.....so I'm thankful of that. We've been married for all but the first six months of his tenure (31 years now).

But I know he will be enraged when the time comes for me to talk with him about all of this. I haven't told him I am uncomfortable with his drinking. Recently I asked him if we can discuss something without his being angry, it gets deflected back at me "I should have known you'd have this kind of attitude. I'M NOT ANGRY.... YADA YADA." ... all the while he is screaming.

My initial thoughts were to focus on me and get healthy before making really explaining anything to him, just working on detaching and working the 12 steps. But the more I am aware of his behavior now and that my illness is likely a result of the stress induced by the body's automatic "flight or fright" response over and over again, I'm not sure how long I really can stay.

So, this is a long way of saying it, but THANKS TO ALL OF YOU! Thanks for sharing your stories, your support, your experiences. Since my eyes were opened two months ago, this board has been a big part of my recovery. I know I am just beginning and I'm not planning on making any major decisions quickly. But two months ago, I was ready to stay in this marriage forever, even if it meant being sick. I felt like a victim,...hardly left home. Couldn't really even verbalize how I felt or what was wrong with me. I went to Al-Anon and came here and saw my story played out over and over again. I felt at home.

Today, I'm realizing that my life is worth fighting for. I realize that while my H doesn't hit me, it's because when he's around I edit myself and keep discussions to weather or other mundane topics. And I realize I don't want to live that way for the rest of my life. Dandylion's words in a thread a few weeks ago continue to guide me:

Do you want to just exist and tolerate...or, do you want to thrive.....?

I want to thrive and I'm starting the journey to get there! THANK YOU ALL! Wish me luck as I meet with the attorney today!

dandylion

allinon....OMG! I am so thrilled and happy for you. Also, I'm amazed at the amount of proactive work you are doing...believe me,.....it is all going to be worth it!

I have no doubt that you are going to thrive. There is a Life Force within all of us that desires to push forward.....otherwise the human race would never have made it.
It is that same force that causes a baby to get up, again, a thousand times when it is learning to walk. It is this force that is going to be your saving grace.

Once you "know" a thing---once you have been enlightened....you cannot, ever again, be un-enlightened!

I will be thinking of you today, as you go to the lawyer. I think you will feel so m uch better..and, more confident....by knowing the facts. Good move.

Very sincerely, dandylion

lillamy

You sound strong and determined to have the life you deserve -- and that makes me happy!

Good luck at the lawyer. Two things I learned when I was going through my divorce was that a) once I actually started talking to a lawyer, and saw his reaction to my story, I realized that I had minimized the abuse I had been suffering, and b) when it came down to brass tacks, I was very timid and afraid to make any demands of any sorts -- but the lawyer explained to me what my rights were, and that made it easier to say "I'm really not being unreasonable; here's what the law says I'm entitled to."

honeypig

allinon, when you have a chance, please tell us how things went yesterday. As others have said, you have done a TON of work on/for yourself, and I am simply amazed at how far you've come in so little time.

Good job!

Santa

I remember the first attempts to get my XAH to talk about his drinking. And the later ones as well. He'd get angry no matter how gently I brought it up. He now knows himself, after many years, a divorce, subsequent failed relationships, lost job, etc etc etc, that he is an alcoholic.

At the end of the day if you decide to leave the marriage, you do not need to justify to him (or anyone else) your reasons or 'make him understand.' You are unhappy, you want out of this relationship. It's as simple as that.

hopeful4

Good for you! Just seeing an attorney (which was a good year or so before I separated) made me feel so much more in charge of my own life. You are right, you cannot live in fight or flight mode forever. That is such a good way to explain it. When I kicked my X out I can only say that my body stopped feeling like crap all the time and I felt more relaxed, in charge of my own life, at ease so to speak.

I think you are doing great!!!

XXX

allinon

First of all thanks again to everyone for your responses and support. I should have re-read my original post every hour or so .... While I had a great meeting with the attorney on Thursday, yesterday I fell back into the victim mode, sitting on sofa unable to move and depressed thinking of my future because it's just so hard to think of actually getting free. Sorry this is long....

But first overview of attorney visit:

She made me feel very much at ease within first minute of the meeting and we "clicked". She's very engaging and easy to talk with, that plus the fact that she has great reviews online and she was a former domestic violence hearing officer in another parish all make me know that I'm going to stick with her.

She explained to me that Louisiana is a no-fault divorce, community property state, meaning most people (unless in a "covenant" marriage which wasn't around when we got married) can be divorced by living apart for six months. He can't stop it. He can't protest it. If I serve him a petition to divorce and we live apart for six months, then she files papers and we will be divorced. We don't have to put any language in filings about verbal abuse or alcoholism and she says she rarely does so because she likes to get the quickest divorce and settlement for her clients. She says putting that type of acrimonious language ALWAYS leads to longer fights. She says I like it to be cut and dry without fighting words!

As far as the financial settlement, again LA is a community property state meaning that anything acquired during the marriage is split 50/50...this includes any savings, mutual funds, property, pensions, 401k accounts, etc. It also includes any debt acquired would be split 50/50. Because our kids are both over 19, he has no legal obligation to fund their education!! Luckily however, both of my kids have incredible scholarships so that is not an issue. We do provide car insurance, cell phones, medical insurance, etc. The medical insurance coverage is mandated until age 26 by the Affordable Healthcare Act, so that will continue. We'll need to figure out the others but it wouldn't be part of official financial settlement.

She said that on the day she files petition to divorce papers, she also files papers for spousal support (aka alimony). She says the law allows for me to get half his salary (less fixed expenses like house note) to allow for living at the same financial level I am now. She says the courts almost always forces husband (spouse with greater income) to provide this from day petition is filed until SIX MONTHS AFTER divorce is final. It's temporary but designed to help the spouse with lesser income (usually wife) to get on their feet. THIS IS HUGE!

I explained to her that my husband already qualified for retirement with age and years of service but that he was still working. I said I was concerned that if I said I wanted a divorce before he retired, that he would just continue working and delay his retirement and therefore delay when we would both get his pension. She told me that since he qualifies for retirement I CAN GET ACCESS TO HALF PENSION EVEN IF HE CONTINUES TO WORK! She said this is common issue because the pension is usually the biggest community asset in a marriage and a husband can say well I'm just going to work forever to delay the spouse from getting it (like I was afraid mine would do). But she assured me that the law allows me to get half value it was at the time of divorce settlement. She said this was the same for his thrift plan (like 401K) as well!

My husband has a LOT of life insurance, most whole life with cash values (which is like purchased) and some term life (which is like renting without cash values). She said there is a provision in the law that we can file that would also forbid him to change the beneficiary since it was bought and paid for during the marriage.

She asked if I wanted the house and I said no that I had been ready to leave for years. She said he can stay and do one of two things: sell and then we would split 50/50, or he can just buy me out for half of value. She said we could agree to a value based on market analysis, or we could spend several hundred on an appraisal. She also said that if he stayed until house is sold or settlement is done, we could also ask for half the rental cost of the house! This would encourage him to settle or sell quicker! This is huge for me because my husband erupts in anger anytime I discuss leaving house, moving, selling it, etc. I moved out of our bedroom and he has it filled with crap, along with the attic, the garage, etc. I could conceivably move MY stuff out and leave the rest of HIS crap to HIM to sort through and move. This is such a relief because I know this will take him forever!

I asked and she did say that she could draw up what we felt was a fair settlement and we could both just sign it without having to go to court. Or that he could acquire an attorney and that four of us (each with our own attorneys) can sit and settle things. She said that is the preferred way and cheaper. Then settlement is just signed off by judge. She said she recently had a client with a $4 million divorce settlement come to her because they couldn't agree to details of the settlement after 2 years. She said she helped negotiate and it was done in five hours! We are no where near that amount! I said that was good to hear because I was afraid my husband is going to get furious and fight it. She said he's going to rage no matter what you say or do if you divorce him. But he can't fight what the law says.

She did say that her costs range from $5-10,000!! She says it depends on how much fighting there will be. She said, " I'll have a better idea once I know who he hires as an attorney....how well we can work together."

I know he'll probably get one, but the thought of my AH doing anything proactive is laughable. He does NOTHING for himself. Although he has a powerful job, he's always late on filing paperwork there or doing online training or anything like that. Can't keep track of ANYTHING. Papers EVERYWHERE. I do ALL financials at home. He has NO idea of any bills. NOTHING. He's the type that makes promises and or threats all the time and there's NEVER any follow through. Never makes doctor's appointments. Hasn't seen a dentist SINCE I'VE KNOWN HIM! (yuck) So, not sure if he'll just rage and rage and then be so broke and hurt that he'll just crumble and do nothing. Or if he'll turn that rage and hurt into finding the most vicious attorney. I never know what to expect from him.

So, overall the meeting was so encouraging! I'm realizing that I don't have to be a victim, that I'm not trapped like I thought I was for so long. She did say, "I don't want it to sound like it's a piece of cake because it will be hell for a while, but in the end it's just business. It's the law. He's making you sick and you're choosing to get well and enjoy life."

Wow.

So with that realization though the thoughts and doubts have come back. Yes I can do this. Yes I can get free. Yes it's going to be horrible in the short term. Yes he's going to be extremely angry.

But can I face all that? What support do I have? I've isolated myself from family and friends because I just couldn't face them. Tired of lying to them about how AH is? "How's XXX?" "Oh he's fine." While the whole time inside I'm screaming: "He's a ba$tard. He's verbally abusive. He's a closet alcoholic. He ignores me. He's never home. We live like roommates. He doesn't have a close relationship with anyone, not even his kids. Living with him is like living with Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde....and I never know at any time which one I'm in the room with. I'm physically ill from living with him....... And how are you?"

Over the next few months I will seek a sponsor at Al-anon, continue to work on me, continue with my therapist and acupuncturist. I'm going to gather the financial info. I'm going to start becoming more verbal with boundaries. I'm going to physically leave the house if he starts getting angry, go to a hotel or something. ... not just leave the room. I need to start making him see that I'm not going to stand to live like this.

I'm so thankful I went to see the attorney and know what my rights are. I won't make any decisions until after the first of the year. We have several committed weekend trips together in the coming months to see our kids at their college towns this fall. And it will take me that long to gather documents, clean the house.... I may even get a storage unit somewhere and start moving some of my things there. He is so oblivious to things around here, he wouldn't even notice it was gone. (I keep my journal and my Courage to Change book on the coffee table. He doesn't even realize they are there.)

But the first thing I need to do is get out of the stuck mode. I know that doing this will hurt him and my children. My parents were divorced. I know that hurt and I SWORE TO MYSELF that I would NEVER divorce. That's one big reason why I remained silent all these 30 years......BUT I need to remember that staying with him and putting up with this way of life will continue to make me sick. I need to do this for me.

Thank you all again for your care and support.

dandylion

WOW, allinon. That was a dynamic meeting!!!!!!!!! Sounds like you picked a good melon!

You are not going to "hurt" your children---not in the sense of doing them harm.
I'll be willing to bet that they have seen more than you imagine, all along.

Marriage is not just about the piece of paper that is legally signed.....it is about the energy exchanged between the two people.
You have raised your young to the point that they are able to independently assume their own lives. At this point, they are in charge of their own lives and individual happiness---regardless of your opinions about it (at bottom line)....and, the same is true for you....you get to make the personal decisions for yourself. This is what autonomyous
means. Independent and autonomyous (sp?).

If parent is teacher...and I believe that is a parent role...you will be teaching them a lesson that can't be learned in books. You are teaching them that one has to be true to ones's self, above all. Honest and true. This will become just as important in their lives as it is in yours. They need this lesson (we all do).
Oh, they may grumble..or not...whatever--they will get over it in fairly short order as they are focused on themselves so much at this stage of l ife.

You are stunned at this amount of information from your lawyer, I imagine. It will take you a little time to process this. You seem to be a fast worker, lately, though....LOL, LOL.

dandylion

amy55

Terrific !!!!!!

I think this all turned out better then what you even hoped for.

I have a csrs pension and so will my ex. You really can't get the pension amount from you AH until he retires, opm doesn't work like that, I think attorney meant that the amount you would be entitled to, could be garnished from his pay. The court order approved for processing (COAP) would be sent to opm at that time, and even though he could not keep you on his health coverage, you would still be able to get health coverage through them.

Did you figure out how much he would be entitled to from a pension? You can do this all yourself. I found a few sites that you can do your own calculations.

Good luck to you, and I think your attorney is very informative.

(((((((((((hugs)))))))))

If you need any help with this part of the divorce let me know. I am currently battling my ex with all of this, because he is planning on retiring from fed employment in 01/2015.

CodeJob

Allinon,

I am 1000% impressed. Take your time to think it through. I like the idea of sorting out your stuff, copying the records you need, and the storage spot. All the best to you!

amy55

I keep forgetting that federal employees can either have csrs or fers. My ex is under csrs. I can still help you with fers if yours is under fers. Computations are a little different.

Santa

And that is an excellent example of why meeting with a good attorney should be step 1 for anyone thinking of leaving. Even if you don't decide to file, information is power. The first consultation is often free.

My divorce cost me about $5000. Worth every penny.

allinon

Thank you all again so much for the support!

Yes, dandylion, that is a good word for it: I was stunned that all this time I thought I was trapped that again, while it will be hell to go through, the law in LA provides me a financial way to get out.

Santa: Yes I agree: see an attorney and get a consultation. Mine wasn't free. It cost $200 which I paid for in cash for no trace just in case. But for me it was well worth it. You need to know what the end game could look like to know what can be done in the meantime. There is a small part of me that is very giddy at the thought of living alone in my own little house in serenity.....but I am not going to do anything quickly at all. But now that I know what my rights are, I have a quiet confidence going forward. Now I have to crunch numbers see how they translate as far as the financials. And I am going to work the steps and be more vocal about boundaries. But the bottom line is I know in the back of my mind that I have options and that is a great feeling.

I do feel that since I haven't talked with him about his drinking at all nor verbal abuse recently, that I owe him courtesy of being upfront and I will do that little by little over time. I also know that I have to be careful and will have phone in hand ready to dial 911 if he gets violent. I will leave after one physical incident. DONE. OVER. And he knew that from before we were married because my father was physical with my mother and I told him I would not stand for it. One strike and I'm out. THAT is at least one boundary I put out there.

And Amy55: thank you! As I gather info, I may send you a PM. He is on the old FERS system, which he always said was better. And I was wondering how I could get the pension before he retired.... definitely needs clarification. She said she would file a QUADRO which she's done numerous times.... anyway. I have time to get more specifics. But it's still a comfort knowing half is mine.

Thanks again everyone. You all are so wonderfully supportive. I thank you all from the bottom of my heart!

amy55

allinon, I'll PM you any information that you may need.

I hope that I am not hijacking your thread. I just want to clarify a few things for anyone who is reading here who may be CSRS or FERS pension plans, or have an AH, or stbxAH.

CSRS is the older retirement system, and usually the better one. FERS is the newer one, which consists of CSRS and Social Security. You can get the CSRS portion earlier then age 62, where with Social Security Retirement, you cannot get that portion till age 62.

You can never get your portion of a CSRS from your spouse, until that spouse retires. With FERS, you can file for Social Security even if your ex (divorced) is still working as long as he/she meets the requirement for Social Security. At least age 62, and has 40 quarter of coverage. You need to be age 62 to file. You would still have to wait for the CSRS portion of the pension, until he/she retires.

A C.O.A.P (Court Ordered Approved for Processing) but be filed, not a QDRO, or QUADRO. That is unacceptable for OPM.

Now lawyers can get the terminology mixed up, but they are usually not the ones who prepare the C.O.A.P., they are usually sent out to a pension evaluator.

Sorry for the hijack

Santa

allinon, I hope you are not waiting for him to hit you so that you can feel justified in leaving. That's scary. You also do not owe him the courtesy of nagging him about his drinking to help prepare him for the subject of divorce.

amy55

[QUOTE=allinon;4882656]

Wow.

So with that realization though the thoughts and doubts have come back. Yes I can do this. Yes I can get free. Yes it's going to be horrible in the short term. Yes he's going to be extremely angry.

But can I face all that? What support do I have? I've isolated myself from family and friends because I just couldn't face them. Tired of lying to them about how AH is? "How's XXX?" "Oh he's fine." While the whole time inside I'm screaming: "He's a ba$tard. He's verbally abusive. He's a closet alcoholic. He ignores me. He's never home. We live like roommates. He doesn't have a close relationship with anyone, not even his kids. Living with him is like living with Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde....and I never know at any time which one I'm in the room with. I'm physically ill from living with him....... And how are you?"

^^^^^^^^^^^

You will be amazed at all the friends and family that will rally around you once you speak your truth. I also isolated myself from people. When I knew I had to leave I was offered a place to stay by this couple. The husband was my ex's best friend. The wife was my best friend. I never expected this. They took me in for 2 1/2 years till the divorce was over, and I bought my own place.

Even though I pretended to be ok on the outside, they both knew that things were not right. Living with with my ex, I could actually use the way you described it word for word.

Just know that once you start to set boundaries, this is going to make him "crazy". He will most likely "up", the abuse. He will see it as you trying to take some control back and he will change tactics to keep you under his control. Stay safe, know we are here for you, you can talk to us anytime.

(((((((((((((hugs)))))))))))
amy

allinon

I'm not Santa. I won't be nagging him about drinking. I'm talking mainly about being more vocal about boundaries, working steps, etc.

But I'm only two months into Al-Anon and while I am going to therapy and saw a lawyer just to get info, I have much more work to do on me. I want to work the steps and focus on my health.

I know it's a long road and the bottom line is my health. There will be days I'm ready to scream and walk out, and days where I'm happy and think things are going well. I have a lot of work ahead of me but going with the attorney as well as the therapy I have had thus far has given me some self-confidence that I can make changes. I really feel that the next right thing for me to do while gathering financial info & clearing out house is to get a sponsor and work the steps.

I feel that I have to make these efforts for improvement in both my health and being upfront with him about the boundaries over these next months while still here. I KNOW it is highly likely that he will act out more. But I can't leave tomorrow for many reasons, so while I'm here getting things together and working on me, I'll be laying down boundaries, making copies, gathering info, taking notes and documenting everything!

Thanks again everyone for the support!!!

hopeful4

Prepare for the worst, hope and pray for the best. Above all, keep working on YOU! You're doing great!

XXX