Thoughts on forgiveness and spirituality?
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Join Date: Dec 2013
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Thoughts on forgiveness and spirituality?
This is kind of an offshoot of my post last night about bad memories. Thanks to those who answered. I have been reading a lot and keeping a journal of positively that has been helping a lot. I have been trying to practice mindfulness, lots of deep breathing. I got Peace Is Every Step by Thich Nhat Hanh today and am looking forward to reading it. I don't follow a particular religion but am definitely spiritual and lean towards Buddhist beliefs.
As much as I want to be angry and say "screw my AXB for hurting me" I also am too much of an empathetic person. I felt his pain to the core and wanted so badly to take it away, but ultimately chose to save myself because, as I learned the hard way, that's all I can do.
So now I'm at a point where I'm ready (I think) to forgive him, for my own peace and healing. I've always been more depressed than angry about what happened because even though he has an abusive personality underneath the alcoholism, I saw the good in him and it still makes me so sad.
How do you forgive for yourself (forgiving myself as well for enabling and reacting out of anger)? How do you send out that love into the world? I'm thinking of volunteering at a soup kitchen and definitely donating items to the DV shelter run by the support group I attend. I just feel like it's time to stop letting myself get stuck in the downward spiral of reliving the past in my head and heart.
What are your thoughts on forgiveness, higher power etc? All viewpoints are appreciated, no judgment here :-)
As much as I want to be angry and say "screw my AXB for hurting me" I also am too much of an empathetic person. I felt his pain to the core and wanted so badly to take it away, but ultimately chose to save myself because, as I learned the hard way, that's all I can do.
So now I'm at a point where I'm ready (I think) to forgive him, for my own peace and healing. I've always been more depressed than angry about what happened because even though he has an abusive personality underneath the alcoholism, I saw the good in him and it still makes me so sad.
How do you forgive for yourself (forgiving myself as well for enabling and reacting out of anger)? How do you send out that love into the world? I'm thinking of volunteering at a soup kitchen and definitely donating items to the DV shelter run by the support group I attend. I just feel like it's time to stop letting myself get stuck in the downward spiral of reliving the past in my head and heart.
What are your thoughts on forgiveness, higher power etc? All viewpoints are appreciated, no judgment here :-)
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
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I've been taking a class on mindfulness through the VA. The last couple of sessions we worked on something called compassionate meditation. It is a way to harness and use your emotions in a way that is beneficial to the greater good.
If I am feeling a negative emotion, like sadness, I will meditate on feeling that sadness so that others might have the burden of sadness lifted from them.
With positive emotions it is the opposite, you meditate on releasing them so that everyone can share that experience with you.
I found it helpful when I was overwhelmed with negative emotions from PTSD a couple of weeks ago.
As for forgiveness, I attend Alanon and have worked through many of my resentments doing the 12 steps, which helped me find the root causes of the resentment in many cases.
Forgiveness is a positive thing. It doesn't absolve the other person of wrongdoing, but it frees me of the burden of carrying resentments through life.
If I am feeling a negative emotion, like sadness, I will meditate on feeling that sadness so that others might have the burden of sadness lifted from them.
With positive emotions it is the opposite, you meditate on releasing them so that everyone can share that experience with you.
I found it helpful when I was overwhelmed with negative emotions from PTSD a couple of weeks ago.
As for forgiveness, I attend Alanon and have worked through many of my resentments doing the 12 steps, which helped me find the root causes of the resentment in many cases.
Forgiveness is a positive thing. It doesn't absolve the other person of wrongdoing, but it frees me of the burden of carrying resentments through life.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: My mind wanders a lot, but I try to stay in the present.
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C.S. Lewis has a lot of great writings on the subject of forgiveness.You can google a ton of awesome stuff. Here is an extended version of the quote I use as my signature:
When you start mathematics you do not begin with the calculus; you begin with simple addition. In the same way, if we really want (but all depends on really wanting) to learn how to forgive, perhaps we had better start with something easier than the Gestapo. One might start with forgiving one's husband or wife, or parents or children, or the nearest N.C.O, for something they have done or said in the last week. That will probably keep us busy for the moment.
In other words, keep it simple and practice. Just like you would to gain proficiency in meditation or exercise.
When you start mathematics you do not begin with the calculus; you begin with simple addition. In the same way, if we really want (but all depends on really wanting) to learn how to forgive, perhaps we had better start with something easier than the Gestapo. One might start with forgiving one's husband or wife, or parents or children, or the nearest N.C.O, for something they have done or said in the last week. That will probably keep us busy for the moment.
In other words, keep it simple and practice. Just like you would to gain proficiency in meditation or exercise.
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I love that quote, Karma!!!
I found, in my recovery, that I wanted it to be DONE. Just like I was looking for a magic wand/spell/word/action that would make my ex stop drinking, I did the same in my recovery. I was sort of going "If I go to X meetings a week and spend two weeks working each step and read the right literature and journal, then I will be DONE in X months."
My Alanannies laughed at me. My therapist did, too. They were like "dudewoman, this stuff takes time. And you need to let it." I don't like it, but I've gotten to the point where I (grudgingly) accept that I can't climb that mountain over there until I've waded through the marshland and crossed the river that's in-between. And maybe the weather's bad and I have to pitch a tent and wait it out -- for a day, a week, a month.
I think that's my response. That getting to the point of forgiveness takes time. I've gotten to the point where I'm no longer living in daily fear of my ex. I rarely have nightmares about him anymore. I've forgiven him on a rational level -- but the anger and sadness sticks its head out and reminds me it's still there every time I see the effects in our kids of his drinking. So it's a process. One day at a time. For us as for the As.
I found, in my recovery, that I wanted it to be DONE. Just like I was looking for a magic wand/spell/word/action that would make my ex stop drinking, I did the same in my recovery. I was sort of going "If I go to X meetings a week and spend two weeks working each step and read the right literature and journal, then I will be DONE in X months."
My Alanannies laughed at me. My therapist did, too. They were like "dudewoman, this stuff takes time. And you need to let it." I don't like it, but I've gotten to the point where I (grudgingly) accept that I can't climb that mountain over there until I've waded through the marshland and crossed the river that's in-between. And maybe the weather's bad and I have to pitch a tent and wait it out -- for a day, a week, a month.
I think that's my response. That getting to the point of forgiveness takes time. I've gotten to the point where I'm no longer living in daily fear of my ex. I rarely have nightmares about him anymore. I've forgiven him on a rational level -- but the anger and sadness sticks its head out and reminds me it's still there every time I see the effects in our kids of his drinking. So it's a process. One day at a time. For us as for the As.
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It's a baby-step process for me, personally. As much as I am like lillamy in this way (I just want to do x,y,z & be done & check it off the list) I have found that it just doesn't work that way because it isn't a single act of forgiveness.
Doing for others helps me to see outside of myself, so charity in that way is always beneficial to my life perspective, but the act itself doesn't bring forgiveness. I can't counteract the negative by layering positive on top of it, I have to rip up the old, rotted negative & REPLACE it with new positive thinking.
As I work through my recovery I encounter the need for forgiveness for different things in different stages. I will say I think I am struggling the most with forgiveness of Self... idk why I find it so much harder to forgive ME? When the topic comes up internally, I *hear* myself blameshifting a lot of the time & then it stops me short of reaching true forgiveness.
Instead of just saying, "I made a mistake, I forgive myself" I hear myself qualifying my mistake.... "I wouldn't have done X if I had known Y", "I only did THAT because he did THIS", etc. Ugh. Definite work in progress there.
Easy peasy. I smile at strangers. I hold the door for the person behind me. And sometimes the person behind them too. 
If the guy in line behind me at the grocery has 2 items, I let him go ahead... if the mom behind me is struggling with 2 kids melting down, I let her go ahead even if she has an entire cartload.... When I encounter a sour, nasty person I try to remember that I don't know what they are dealing with in their lives & don't let their negativity spill over to me. Maybe they are like that all the time & maybe they are having a horrible crisis that isn't obvious. I take the time to ask my cashier at the grocery how HER day is going. If I have spent the last 3 conversations with a friend talking about my issues, I call them & tell them I am calling to JUST talk about them because they are important & I want to return an ear to listen & a shoulder to cry on. I donate small amounts for all kinds of charities - dollar store items for military families for back to school? Yep! Food drives at the school or through our local food pantry? Yep!
It's like a positive domino effect - when I make a small difference like that to one person that turns around & pays it forward again, it spreads out into the world little by little.
Doing for others helps me to see outside of myself, so charity in that way is always beneficial to my life perspective, but the act itself doesn't bring forgiveness. I can't counteract the negative by layering positive on top of it, I have to rip up the old, rotted negative & REPLACE it with new positive thinking.
As I work through my recovery I encounter the need for forgiveness for different things in different stages. I will say I think I am struggling the most with forgiveness of Self... idk why I find it so much harder to forgive ME? When the topic comes up internally, I *hear* myself blameshifting a lot of the time & then it stops me short of reaching true forgiveness.
Instead of just saying, "I made a mistake, I forgive myself" I hear myself qualifying my mistake.... "I wouldn't have done X if I had known Y", "I only did THAT because he did THIS", etc. Ugh. Definite work in progress there.
How do you send out that love into the world?
If the guy in line behind me at the grocery has 2 items, I let him go ahead... if the mom behind me is struggling with 2 kids melting down, I let her go ahead even if she has an entire cartload.... When I encounter a sour, nasty person I try to remember that I don't know what they are dealing with in their lives & don't let their negativity spill over to me. Maybe they are like that all the time & maybe they are having a horrible crisis that isn't obvious. I take the time to ask my cashier at the grocery how HER day is going. If I have spent the last 3 conversations with a friend talking about my issues, I call them & tell them I am calling to JUST talk about them because they are important & I want to return an ear to listen & a shoulder to cry on. I donate small amounts for all kinds of charities - dollar store items for military families for back to school? Yep! Food drives at the school or through our local food pantry? Yep! It's like a positive domino effect - when I make a small difference like that to one person that turns around & pays it forward again, it spreads out into the world little by little.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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well for me, if i'm going to FORGIVE something...i first need to make sure i understand what i am about to emark upon:
Forgive - definition
1 : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult>
2 : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>
3: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive one's enemies>
and am i really ready to that? or am i at least willing to be ready?
then i need to know EXACTLY what my resentments are - i need a good thorough inventory so that i am clear about what i intend to release. this isn't the time for a blanket "Ollie Ollie Oxen Free."
if i'm harboring resentment against myself or others....what's behind that? is it JUST the current/recently passed situation - or does it go deeper? farther back? is the current situation simply a catalyst to release past "crimes"??
for me, working the steps is the clearest most effective tool I KNOW to get to the heart of the matter.
Forgive - definition
1 : to give up resentment of or claim to requital for <forgive an insult>
2 : to grant relief from payment of <forgive a debt>
3: to cease to feel resentment against (an offender) : pardon <forgive one's enemies>
and am i really ready to that? or am i at least willing to be ready?
then i need to know EXACTLY what my resentments are - i need a good thorough inventory so that i am clear about what i intend to release. this isn't the time for a blanket "Ollie Ollie Oxen Free."
if i'm harboring resentment against myself or others....what's behind that? is it JUST the current/recently passed situation - or does it go deeper? farther back? is the current situation simply a catalyst to release past "crimes"??
for me, working the steps is the clearest most effective tool I KNOW to get to the heart of the matter.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,884
For me the first step in forgiveness was forgiving myself. Not so much for what I did to others but what I did to me. I put myself and then remained in a situation where I lost my sense of self, lost my sense of honor and was starting to consider suicide as my only way out. Until I could forgive myself there was no way I could forgive anyone else.
Your friend,
Your friend,
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: UK
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I have a theory that difficult, cranky people are actually giving us a taste of what it's like to be them - it's just that we will be exposed to their thoughts and attitudes for short periods of time, and they live with them 24/7.
There was a girl I worked with a few years back (not an alcoholic); she was somebody who'd had run-ins with everybody in the department and would then complain to senior management that she was being picked on, and was generally a spiteful, manipulative bully. The last thing I heard, though, was that the poor kid had hanged herself. I remember that incident whenever I'm feeling fed up with someone's behaviour. Chances are, this angry, bullying person is suffering a lot more than I am. Resentment will only hurt me - or, to put it another way, 'Resentment is like swallowing poison in the hope that it will make the other person sick!'
I also think that if I send love out into the world; sometimes it might just be making eye contact with a street-drinker, say, or being gracious in the way Firesprite describes - it will come back to me. It might be in the form of a smile being returned, but also the more upbeat body language will actually start to make me feel better, and will make for a brighter inner world which others will unconsciously respond to. So much of our communication takes place below the radar; and I think many of us will have experienced people who we feel good around even without them doing anything - just them, being themselves, and being there.
There was a girl I worked with a few years back (not an alcoholic); she was somebody who'd had run-ins with everybody in the department and would then complain to senior management that she was being picked on, and was generally a spiteful, manipulative bully. The last thing I heard, though, was that the poor kid had hanged herself. I remember that incident whenever I'm feeling fed up with someone's behaviour. Chances are, this angry, bullying person is suffering a lot more than I am. Resentment will only hurt me - or, to put it another way, 'Resentment is like swallowing poison in the hope that it will make the other person sick!'
I also think that if I send love out into the world; sometimes it might just be making eye contact with a street-drinker, say, or being gracious in the way Firesprite describes - it will come back to me. It might be in the form of a smile being returned, but also the more upbeat body language will actually start to make me feel better, and will make for a brighter inner world which others will unconsciously respond to. So much of our communication takes place below the radar; and I think many of us will have experienced people who we feel good around even without them doing anything - just them, being themselves, and being there.
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Originally Posted by Rosalba 
I also think that if I send love out into the world; sometimes it might just be making eye contact with a street-drinker, say, or being gracious in the way Firesprite describes - it will come back to me. It might be in the form of a smile being returned, but also the more upbeat body language will actually start to make me feel better, and will make for a brighter inner world which others will unconsciously respond to. So much of our communication takes place below the radar; and I think many of us will have experienced people who we feel good around even without them doing anything - just them, being themselves, and being there.
Funny to think how much joy the simple smile on someone's face can bring to total strangers. And how the positive emotion that comes out of that joy lays a foundation for forgiveness.
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