cellamay

It's been two years, two trips to rehab, seven car accidents, two ODs, five seizures and more nights of arguing and crying than I can count.

The day I returned home from my grandmother's funeral, three empty bottles of vodka were stuffed in a backpack in the house. And I made him leave.

Most of you, I imagine, have been where I've been. I made a decision, and now doubt and pity are creeping in. I've read plenty about it. And the dozens of phone calls from him a day don't help.

He says he's trying. He's been unemployed practically the entire time we've been together. Things will head down the right track, and he self-destructs. He's attending school and putting in applications, but after all this time and so many cycles of chaos and improvement back to chaos I'm left feeling like it's not enough.

The three bottles, and the day of drinking behind my back, followed by the keeping it a secret and then outright lying about it were the last straw. I can't stay with someone I don't trust. I can't be with someone who will continuously cross boundaries and then say his sobriety is my responsibility.

Aside from his parents, I'm the only person he interacts with. He tells me that I have to believe him. He tells me nothing is ever good enough for me. He tells me I'm throwing my life away by leaving him. And now, I doubt.

I know I cannot do this any longer. So, why do I feel guilty? Why do I doubt the choice I've made? How do I stick to the decision? And is it really better for him? Should I even care?

I'm lost in my own head now...I need someone to help guide me. I'm hoping the collective wisdom on this forum can shed some light on what is now a dark maze for me.

SoloMio

Short answer: No you're not. And I repeat: No you're not.

I have to run out and don't have time to write much, but I can pretty much assure you that if your gut is telling you that you deserve more than someone who thinks only about himself, even on days when you need and deserve the most support (like your grandmother's funeral), then your gut is right. He is just grasping--or, as we say here, quacking.

Please keep coming back here... you'll be able to soak up a lot of great stuff from people who have been there. Welcome!

Needabreak

"He tells me that I have to believe him. He tells me nothing is ever good enough for me. He tells me I'm throwing my life away by leaving him. And now, I doubt."

Why on God's green earth would you take his statements seriously? He's lied repeatedly and, without much concern, and put you through misery repeatedly, without feeling any guilt. You have endured far more negativity and stress in a couple years than most people ever have to endure in a lifetime.

And you're seriously thinking of going back to him? Of course you can assauge your guilt, forgive him, believe him, go back to him and take care of him, put his needs first. No one here will stop you.

But your sense of guilt, your way of thinking strikes me as every bit as delusional as his way of thinking is.

(said by someone who was every bit as delusional as you for several years -- but so thankful that I can embrace things as they really are now -- and let go of that silly emotion of guilt, which never did a damned bit of good for me.)

NWGRITS

You're gaining the life you deserve by leaving him. Don't let his quacking cloud your decisions. He's grasping at straws because the real world is hard for an alcoholic to manage on his own. He has to do stuff for himself and get a job--things that directly affect his ability to drink all the time without consequence. None of this is your responsibility.

cellamay

Needabreak, I wouldn't disagree with delusional. I don't think I am considering going back, not if I'm being honest with myself. I don't care to go back.

I think I've put his needs first for so long, and allowed mine not to matter, that to do anything otherwise feels...wrong. And that seems so messed up.

I don't know how, but somehow I've managed to succeed at my job, continue to be respected by my peers -- all the while isolating from friendships and living chaos at home. I guess I put up as good a front as the functional alcoholic might.

Needless to say, I think I feel the need to have permission to move on, without feeling like "I've given up on him". I want him to get better. I want him to continue doing the small things that are positive. But it's just too little too late for me to stand by and wait, I guess. And for some reason, I feel like I failed in some way -- even though I know (intellectually, rationally) that it was never my efforts, my being there or my support that were going to get him where he needed to be anyway.

I don't know if that makes any sense. I feel like his irrational disease has permeated my emotional rationality as well.

honeypig

cellamay, I'm so glad you found SR. The fact that you're reaching out for help, that you've had enough of the lies and the pain of living with an alcoholic, means you've taken that very first step towards a better life.

Please read as much as you can here, and make sure not to miss the stickies at the top of the page. There are 2 sections of stickies that you might find especially helpful as a newcomer:
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-stories.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-recovery.html

I'd also strongly suggest checking out Alanon. The face-to-face support at Alanon is something that SR, wonderful though it is, simply can't replicate. I've found that using SR and Alanon for the strong points of each has worked well for me.

Everyone here understands where you are. Everyone gets it. Read, post, share and learn. Your path will grow clearer day by day.

Wishing you strength and clarity.

BoxinRotz

I give you permission to leave and not feel responsible for someone who chooses to obliterate himself with vodka every night.

Fathom

Welcome to SR! We've all been where you are in your head right now. You are not alone, and you've found a place with good people who can help you gain some perspective. Keep reading and posting. There is a lot to learn by doing both. You may also consider going to some AlAnon meetings so you can meet people like us face to face. The world of alcoholism is so confusing, and it only gets more so when we are surrounded by people who either don't understand it or don't want to acknowledge it.

In the meantime, please know that you are not crazy. You can trust your instincts. If you have had enough, then that's it. And, when he starts quacking, remember the 3C's:

You didn't cause it
You can't control it
And you can't cure it

And, by "it" we mean his alcoholism or his behavior. All you can control is yourself and your actions to go after the kind of life you want. It sounds to me that the life you have with him is not what you want (because it doesn't seem nice at all!!!). Good for you for recognizing that!

Best,
Fathom

VikingGF

Hi, cellamay, and welcome.

It sounds like you have given this person so many chances already, when are you done? Turn off the phone or don't pick it up for a good length of time and figure out what you really want. How can you think with all the lies being thrown at you? You cannot. The addict's thinking is about ONE thing. Using/Drinking. Not you. Not him. Not a job, house, bills, kids, family.

Walk away, stop giving the lies of a delusional person any weight and go live your life. None of this is your fault, and there is not any part you can fix.

I learned that a long time ago, from this site, and my life changed dramatically.

Best to you.

cellamay

I appreciate the support from all of you. I feel like it sounds stupid to need permission to lead my own life, but I'm trying to be honest with myself (and others at this point) about what exactly I am feeling.

I don't want this life. I stuck around, I think, for the life I thought we would have before I became aware of the alcoholism, the pill-popping and the realization that I wanted his sobriety more than he did.

I've spent countless hours reading, going to AA meetings and other avenues to work to understand alcoholism. I do understand it (as much, I suppose, as anyone who doesn't suffer from it can). And I've come to the realization that I just don't want to live with it.

And maybe that's where the guilt comes from. People compare it to cancer, diabetes or any number of other diseases. We wouldn't leave someone with cancer, they say. But I just can't help feeling a little resentful of that.

I'm trying to stick to my guns, find positive ways to fill my time and find things that are good for me again. I never realized how much of my life was actually revolving around him and spending time with him (towards the end --simply so I could keep an eye on him).

I'm going to have to learn how to live again.

Needabreak

"I feel like his irrational disease has permeated my emotional rationality as well."

Yes, from outside, that's exactly what it looks like.

It took me a long time to get to your level of self-awareness. Please don't think I'm putting you down in any way. Your words speak to me because I was there once. But once you get to a certain point in all of this, things become very clear. At least they did for me.

So, as someone who managed to get out, I no longer care whether my ex thinks I've given up on him or not. I no longer need his or anyone else's permission to make healthy life decisions for myself. On some level I hope my ex finds a better path, but I know that I am in no way responsible for his decisions -- and he certainly doesn't need my permission!

Oh, and as far as not leaving someone with cancer, there are types of cancer that are the result of people's lifestyle choices. Would you feel obligated to stay if that person had a curable cancer but refused to make any lifestyle changes to improve their health? I wouldn't.

These are all things to keep in mind when you're dating and getting to know the next guy. Good luck -- you are in a productive place.

Fathom

Hi Cellamay,

Check out this discussion on leaving a partner with a disease. I particularly appreciate the perspective shared by Deserteyes. (In my opinion, his posts are always worth reading! Thanks, Deserteyes!!!)

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...out-today.html

Wishing you peace,
Fathom

Jenibean87

You're throwing you life away by leaving him?!?! Um. Yeah, he sounds like a real winner, huh? The 3-bottle-a-day drinking, the consistent unemployment, the lying.... I was driving in the car this morning and Beyonce's "to the left" came on. Do you remember that song? "I can have another you in a minute."

Try to remember, alcoholics and addicts are a dime a dozen. You can find another one just like him any day of the week. You're not losing anything by setting boundaries, and enforcing them. It's up to him to not lose YOU, not the other way around. It's his job to get his life together and be a man that actually is irreplaceable by being honest, loving, successful, and sober.

Maybe I'm just in a Girl Power mood since that song, but I would build a playlist of empowering songs, get your friends/family together for dinner/coffee/whatever and surround yourself with the message that YOU DESERVE BETTER. Create en environment for yourself that helps you feel confident in your choices and that supports you. He is never going to let go until the message is clear and you are clear. This is about your life! He is free to change his life if he wants, but you don't have to stick around and wait for something that may never come.

ShootingStar1

I think I feel the need to have permission to move on, without feeling like "I've given up on him"

The truth here is that HE has given up on you, and worse yet, HE has given up on HIMSELF.

There is nothing you - or anyone else - can do to make them live their lives the way we want them to, think they ought to, or think is better for them.

Having been there, and struggling to get out of co-dependency after a 20 year marriage to an alcoholic with other addictions, and many other addicted family members, I think the raw truth is this.

We don't have the right to tell, demand, educate, plead, or in anyway define how someone else should live. That is their right; they get to choose exactly how they want to live. Even if it seems self-destructive, pitiable, immoral, damaging - whatever adjective you want to add - it is their right to choose.

The corollary to that is that we, as co-dependents, truly cannot change anyone else. We can only live our own lives. The Alanon 3 C's have been quoted here: We didn't cause it; We can't change it; and we can't cure it. And they are true.

When you write that you have read countless books about alcoholism, gone to countless AA meetings, I suggest that, while that was important at some point, now you are researching the wrong disease. That is HIS disease. Yours - ours, because I fully include myself here - is co-dependency. That calls for Alanon meetings, personal individual therapy, books like Melodie Beattie's Co-Dependent No More.

We need to learn to live our own lives, without looking at ourselves through the lense of our alcohlic partners. We - our own personal individual lives - are all we are given to control. And that is freedom. And it takes away the guilt. We can't be guilty for trying to run someone else's life unsuccessfully. It wasn't our job, it wasn't our task to succeed or fail at living someone else's life.

Ultimately, I look back on my attempts to "fix" my husband's alcoholism and other addictions as arrogance on my part. I regret trying to control him and change him and guide him because "I thought I knew better what was best for him than he did".

My guilt now is that I didn't step away from trying to run his life years before I did.

I think I impeded his recovery because I kept diverting the consequences of what he did by my interference. Maybe 10 years ago when he was drunk on a plane to the Caribbean and harassed the flight attendant, and he was met by that country's police upon departure, I shouldn't have "fixed" it by pleading his health as the cause of the problem. Maybe had he suffered the consequences of being a rageaholic 10 years ago, for that behavior and countless other episodes, he would have learned that it was unacceptable. Unacceptable to society. He sure didn't care that it was unacceptable to me. But he didn't, and he got worse, and by the end, I was the emotionally battered primary target and I barely escaped with my soul intact.

I was like a "helicopter" parent, but he was an adult. I am kind of ashamed of myself. I think, in hindsight, that I could have removed so much of the chaos and damage in my life by just stepping off the playing field.

Before I left, at the height of his alcoholism and psychotic behavior, he had a very lucid moment where he said to me "You need to look at what you are doing here in this marriage", and he was right. I was in his space, on his case, totally focused on his behavior. I did not recognize or acknowledge the destructiveness in my own attitude and behavior. He suffered from my attempts to control, and I forgot my own life and almost lost who I was in the midst of the alcoholic chaos.

This is said with great compassion. Take what you want and leave the rest.

ShootingStar1

NWGRITS

Would I leave someone with cancer? If he kept going back to the store to buy more cancer, yes. Your AH is going back to the store for more cancer over and over and over again.

OnawaMiniya

"He tells me that I have to believe him."

Nope. You sure don't!

You do, however, have to believe in yourself.

"He tells me nothing is ever good enough for me."

Is his name "Nothing", by any chance?

Joking aside, this is an attempt to manipulate you, and confuse you, and place the blame on you. His behavior ISN'T good enough for you. HIS behavior - not yours. HE controls how he acts - not you.

Saying that to you is a clear demonstration that he is not at a point where he is ready to take responsibility for himself and for his actions. Saying that to you is exactly why his other statement about you having to "believe in him" is false. Believe in what, exactly? That he will continue to place the blame on you? That's real.

"He tells me I'm throwing my life away by leaving him. And now, I doubt."

Another blatant attempt to place the blame squarely on you. He is not even making any sense. It's not throwing your life away to rid yourself of a negative, destructive, draining force of energy like himself. It's the exact opposite of throwing your life away. By freeing yourself from his influence, you have a chance to build your life back up for the better, in a healthy way, with healthy patterns. He's a liar. A manipulator. He is desperate to confuse you into taking him back.

Sadly, and I am so sorry to say this (I am so not trying to hurt you, just make you aware of what master manipulators do, and point out that they are not looking out for YOU, but rather, looking out for THEM, trying to secure a place to stay, money, someone to place blame on so they can pretend to be blameless, etc), his motivation for trying to get you to take him back might simply be to continue his easy lifestyle of drinking, screwing up without consequences, and being able to live off of you, unaccountable for his behavior, selfishness, and laziness.

"I know I cannot do this any longer. So, why do I feel guilty? Why do I doubt the choice I've made?"

You feel guilty because you are used to his manipulations and abuse. He has got you confused. Your life was upside down with him, and you probably don't even remember what it feels like to not have that burden on you. You feel guilty because of that, because he has you convinced that his behavior is your responsibility. It's not. Also, you might feel like he can't make it without you - and this could prove true (sort of/technically...see next sentence). However, it is HIS decision and fault, not yours. He could choose a different way, he could sincerely seek help, he could take care of himself. He doesn't want to. You made it easy for him not to, he of course wants that same ease to continue.

"How do I stick to the decision?"

By truly deciding to. Come here for help. Seek a counselor if you can as well.

"And is it really better for him?"

The question is not what is better for him at this point; it is what is better for you. And you know the answer to that question, don't you, really?

"Should I even care?"

You can wish him well, send him prayers, and find your peace with it. You don't have to either care to the point of hurting yourself, or hate him. You can care from a distance, but in a more humanitarian way, in a human-condition way, in a broad or spiritual sense, without it being detrimental to you. However, again, this is not the real question. The question is, how much do you care about yourself?

Good luck hon

Peace.

Tansy

My x ah has left., I've filed for divorce and I don't regret it. I realised I was throwing my life away by staying with him and I regret not doing it sooner. Of course he wants you to be with him. He doesn't want his life to change. He will say ANYTHING to you to avoid that. He is NOT your responsibility. He is responsible for himself. How he lives,what he drinks, if he drinks. None of it is your concern. You are responsible for yourself and how you are. Start doing things for yourself no matter who strange it seems at first. You will get to like it and I'd block his number and go NC.

Eddiebuckle

Cellamay, I am an alcoholic in recovery and that is not a valid comparison. A better comparison would be leaving a diabetic who refused to follow doctors instructions and was in a downward spiral of ER visits, police and paramedic incidents, and massive psychological changes corresponding to blood sugar swings.

Once you know that you are an alcoholic, you become responsible to do what is necessary to stay sober. If someone is unwilling or unable to stay sober, they don't have a right to a lifelong pass from those around them.

Have you considered seeing a therapist who specializes in addiction? It might help bring clarity for you because you seem torn.

cellamay

I can't thank you all enough for the support, the perspective and the outright honesty. On occasion, I feel resolute. On others (likely when I have time to chew on it in my head) I become torn.

Eddiebuckle, thank you for your perspective, as well. I am looking into personal therapy. I'm trying to decide whether I need to seek someone with alcoholism/substance abuse background or just individual counseling. I'm not sure if I need to seek out that sort of specialty. But I do know I could use someone that I could talk this out with and develop a plan to move forward. I'm good with plans. I think that would help.

Thank you all for allowing me to be honest and to admit my own weaknesses without being confronted with judgment, sarcasm or shame.

AnvilheadII

He tells me nothing is ever good enough for me. He tells me I'm throwing my life away by leaving him. And now, I doubt.

what he is saying is that he wants you to keep taking care of him, putting up with his BS, supporting him, while he continues to flail about and F up his OWN life. he really doesn't have a leg to stand on here. and it's ok to be DONE with the chaos and drama that accompanies him wherever he goes.

as long as he hinges his "recovery" on what YOU do, it's doomed to fail. as long as he blames YOU for the consequences he's feeling from his own actions, it will never work.

TRYING isn't good enough. like TRYING to quit or TRYING to get a job. that's like TRYING to cut down a tree with a fly swatter. sure you're out there, swinging away, but you knew before you walked towards the tree your efforts would lead nowhere.