The addict is our drug?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: East Coast
Posts: 83
The addict is our drug?
Hi,
I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.
I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?
Thoughts or examples?
Thank you,
qwer
I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.
I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?
Thoughts or examples?
Thank you,
qwer
Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: W Washington
Posts: 11,589
I think that is more likely to happen in adult to adult relationships, not so much with adult-child relationships.
codependents tend to put their self worth up for ransom in toxic relationships and CRAVE any scrap of attention, positive or negative, from their partners to feel OK. they live and breathe THROUGH to other.
codependents tend to put their self worth up for ransom in toxic relationships and CRAVE any scrap of attention, positive or negative, from their partners to feel OK. they live and breathe THROUGH to other.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Not everyone becomes codependent, not everyone becomes addicted to the person with whom their in a relationship with. I think of someone who is unable to be emotionally, and sometimes physically independent, and usually it starts way before they meet their romantic partner.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 79
I'm an addict genetically but lucky have enough self control and know info try certain things I will be an addict. That being said I am addicted not to my bf but to his addiction. I research different programs different options for him all the time. I'm scared about when he goes to treatment and know that when he decides to go I will need to seek counseling myself.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 26
Oddly enough, in the relationship with my best friend/partner/lover who turns out to be a crack addict and huge liar, I was NOT codependent. In all my other relationships I have been! I don't feel fear - just total sorrow. And I'm pissed, too! He played me like a maestro. Tomorrow I go for a full STD profile. :/
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Anyone with an addictive personality is at risk of becoming an addict. It doesn't matter if it's a substance or behavior. At least that's what neuroscience says. Obsession is one thing but when a person becomes emotionally and physically dependent on a drug, person, behavior, then they've crossed the line.
This is an addiction site full of people who have crossed that line. People that haven't crossed that line don't usually hang around for very long.
This is an addiction site full of people who have crossed that line. People that haven't crossed that line don't usually hang around for very long.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,927
I agree the quote comes from the fact that in dealing with codependency your actually dealing with an addiction to people, or a need to control people, etc. Many people also have cross addictions like drugs, people, alcoholism, food… they are all very similar IMO.
I came here when my husband was just going into rehab, my reasons had nothing to do with codependency, it was because I stumbled on a forum for friends and family of substance abusers. The forum is whatever we make it, whatever we need it to be as we walk this journey with our loved ones, or on our own... depending on the circumstances. For me, if my husband had been diagnosed with cancer then I probably would have found a F&F forum of cancer patients. Or diabetes, etc.
Whatever your reasons for being here.. welcome and I hope you find support.
I came here when my husband was just going into rehab, my reasons had nothing to do with codependency, it was because I stumbled on a forum for friends and family of substance abusers. The forum is whatever we make it, whatever we need it to be as we walk this journey with our loved ones, or on our own... depending on the circumstances. For me, if my husband had been diagnosed with cancer then I probably would have found a F&F forum of cancer patients. Or diabetes, etc.
Whatever your reasons for being here.. welcome and I hope you find support.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 864
Of course many become addicted to the addict in their life, and just like the addicts in our lives denial plays its part as well.
There is this impulsiveness, obsession, arrogance, a need to control, accepting unacceptable behavior, compromising of core beliefs, putting oneself in dangerous situations without a thought or care for ones own personal safety …
There is walking on eggshells, flipping up the masks, an inability to make a decision …. A need to get them well, fix them, save them … and that goes way beyond the addict in ones life.
It is WE, not I … it is that talking in everything but ones own feelings, actions and needs. The line blurs, the lives enmeshed and happiness so dependent upon what the addict in their lives is doing or not doing as if that really means anything.
Inevitably it is really hard to not become addicted to the addict in your life if you hang around the sickness. Most who watch get sick if not sicker than the addicts in their lives … they lose faith in general and in themselves, don’t trust themselves and what they see and when they have finally had enough of the insanity and detach or leave they go through withdrawal. There is proof that there are chemical changes in the brain of those who watch.
Most really aren’t here by happenstance.
The best gift one can give themselves is to be open and willing to learn. To look within not outside and find who you are. Not fight against who or what you aren’t. If you can do that, then nothing else really matters, and it won’t be a big deal if you are codie, addicted to people, or drugs … you won’t care because the prize and the promise is in the answers you find about you. Learning who you are and what you want and need in this life.
There is this impulsiveness, obsession, arrogance, a need to control, accepting unacceptable behavior, compromising of core beliefs, putting oneself in dangerous situations without a thought or care for ones own personal safety …
There is walking on eggshells, flipping up the masks, an inability to make a decision …. A need to get them well, fix them, save them … and that goes way beyond the addict in ones life.
It is WE, not I … it is that talking in everything but ones own feelings, actions and needs. The line blurs, the lives enmeshed and happiness so dependent upon what the addict in their lives is doing or not doing as if that really means anything.
Inevitably it is really hard to not become addicted to the addict in your life if you hang around the sickness. Most who watch get sick if not sicker than the addicts in their lives … they lose faith in general and in themselves, don’t trust themselves and what they see and when they have finally had enough of the insanity and detach or leave they go through withdrawal. There is proof that there are chemical changes in the brain of those who watch.
Most really aren’t here by happenstance.
The best gift one can give themselves is to be open and willing to learn. To look within not outside and find who you are. Not fight against who or what you aren’t. If you can do that, then nothing else really matters, and it won’t be a big deal if you are codie, addicted to people, or drugs … you won’t care because the prize and the promise is in the answers you find about you. Learning who you are and what you want and need in this life.
Nature Girl
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: By The Lake
Posts: 60,328
My son was the addicted loved one in my life and I spent entire days trying to control how he was, where he was, what he did or did not do, who he associated with and whether or not he went to meetings...now THAT'S codependency and it's name was Ann.
I was obsessed with making him get clean and stay clean and never use again...all futile attempts to keep him alive.
Fear drove my codependecy, fear of something terrible happening to him or to me or to my family.
So just as an addict's day is filled with the quest for drugs and more driugs, my day was filled with the quest for my son's sobriety and well being...we were each obsessed with our goals even though his defeated mine every time.
To those who are lucky enough to not be codependent, it is impossible for you to ever understand what it is like to be us. Some have a problem, it gets solved and they all live happily every after...good for them, how wonderful. Just like some people have a drinking "problem" and quit, and never have a problem again. Those are not the people to whom this kind of question is addressed.
But for those of us who are codependent enough that we sought out this forum and are reaching out for help...I promise you that life can get better for us too.
But codependent or not, nothing any of us does or does not do will make any addict get clean and stay clean. Sobriety is an inside job and only they can do that.
I was obsessed with making him get clean and stay clean and never use again...all futile attempts to keep him alive.
Fear drove my codependecy, fear of something terrible happening to him or to me or to my family.
So just as an addict's day is filled with the quest for drugs and more driugs, my day was filled with the quest for my son's sobriety and well being...we were each obsessed with our goals even though his defeated mine every time.
To those who are lucky enough to not be codependent, it is impossible for you to ever understand what it is like to be us. Some have a problem, it gets solved and they all live happily every after...good for them, how wonderful. Just like some people have a drinking "problem" and quit, and never have a problem again. Those are not the people to whom this kind of question is addressed.
But for those of us who are codependent enough that we sought out this forum and are reaching out for help...I promise you that life can get better for us too.
But codependent or not, nothing any of us does or does not do will make any addict get clean and stay clean. Sobriety is an inside job and only they can do that.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by qwer1234 
Hi,
I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.
I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?
Thoughts or examples?
Thank you,
qwer
I'm pouring over the threads and reading....I've read a few times, the addict becomes our drug or that we become addicted to the addict.
I understand enabling and co-dependency, but I'm having trouble understanding the concept of being addicted to the addict?
Thoughts or examples?
Thank you,
qwer
Before we are educated about the addiction of a loved one, I think it is expected that we will do everything within our power to get them to stop. To me this is as normal as finding out a loved one has a dreaded disease of any kind and does everything in their power to get their loved one to treatment. With regards to addiction, our 'help' won't matter if the loved one doesn't also have a desire to stop but we don't know that until later. To me, that learning curve that we have does not equal being addicted to an addict. Now this is just my opinion.
I suppose one can be addicted to anything and in that sense I think Anvilhead's description makes the most sense to me. It sounds similar to low self esteem. I sometimes feel that my addicted son's girlfriend has some tendencies in this regard. Then again, she may just be experiencing that learning curve. It is hard to tell.
Anyway, just my opinion. I could be wrong.
Kari
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
I actually don't think it's "normal" to have a learning curve about an addict. I think that someone with healthy boundaries would not get romantically involved with an active addict in the first place. When I was younger I had plenty of friends who, when dating, would not continue to date someone who they believed had issues with alcohol or drugs. They saved themselves a lot of misery.
I'm only talking about partners/bf/gf/spouses here, and not people who have children who are addicts. I don't have kids so have no experience there. But I do know that some of my friends' parents got much more wrapped up in and miserable with their kids issues than others did.
In my case, my ex-partner didn't use (that I know of) for the first 15 years that we were together. So I didn't know that he was or would ever be an addict. But now that that relationship is over I can see that there were plenty of red flags right from the beginning, including a neediness on his part that made me feel very important and loved. Looking back on it I can see that this behavior of his was triggering something unhealthy and co-dependent in me. I was looking externally for validation rather than internally. And I was buying into a certain type of manipulation that I didn't even see as manipulation until much later.
I don't know that addiction is the right word, but I do see many people here who stay in situations that are clearly unhealthy for them, who endure upset after upset, who put up with lies and infidelity and relapse after relapse. They set themselves up for continual disappointment, stress, financial hardships, legal issues, dangerous situations for their children, and then blame blame blame others for their problems just like addicts do. And just like addicts they never ever question their own role in their unhappy situations.
It's very sad, really. And if I hadn't been there myself, I would be utterly mystified as to why someone would ever put themselves through it.
I'm only talking about partners/bf/gf/spouses here, and not people who have children who are addicts. I don't have kids so have no experience there. But I do know that some of my friends' parents got much more wrapped up in and miserable with their kids issues than others did.
In my case, my ex-partner didn't use (that I know of) for the first 15 years that we were together. So I didn't know that he was or would ever be an addict. But now that that relationship is over I can see that there were plenty of red flags right from the beginning, including a neediness on his part that made me feel very important and loved. Looking back on it I can see that this behavior of his was triggering something unhealthy and co-dependent in me. I was looking externally for validation rather than internally. And I was buying into a certain type of manipulation that I didn't even see as manipulation until much later.
I don't know that addiction is the right word, but I do see many people here who stay in situations that are clearly unhealthy for them, who endure upset after upset, who put up with lies and infidelity and relapse after relapse. They set themselves up for continual disappointment, stress, financial hardships, legal issues, dangerous situations for their children, and then blame blame blame others for their problems just like addicts do. And just like addicts they never ever question their own role in their unhappy situations.
It's very sad, really. And if I hadn't been there myself, I would be utterly mystified as to why someone would ever put themselves through it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Needabreak
I actually don't think it's "normal" to have a learning curve about an addict. I think that someone with healthy boundaries would not get romantically involved with an active addict in the first place. When I was younger I had plenty of friends who, when dating, would not continue to date someone who they believed had issues with alcohol or drugs. They saved themselves a lot of misery.
I'm only talking about partners/bf/gf/spouses here, and not people who have children who are addicts. I don't have kids so have no experience there. But I do know that some of my friends' parents got much more wrapped up in and miserable with their kids issues than others did.
In my case, my ex-partner didn't use (that I know of) for the first 15 years that we were together. So I didn't know that he was or would ever be an addict. But now that that relationship is over I can see that there were plenty of red flags right from the beginning, including a neediness on his part that made me feel very important and loved. Looking back on it I can see that this behavior of his was triggering something unhealthy and co-dependent in me. I was looking externally for validation rather than internally. And I was buying into a certain type of manipulation that I didn't even see as manipulation until much later.
I don't know that addiction is the right word, but I do see many people here who stay in situations that are clearly unhealthy for them, who endure upset after upset, who put up with lies and infidelity and relapse after relapse. They set themselves up for continual disappointment, stress, financial hardships, legal issues, dangerous situations for their children, and then blame blame blame others for their problems just like addicts do. And just like addicts they never ever question their own role in their unhappy situations.
It's very sad, really. And if I hadn't been there myself, I would be utterly mystified as to why someone would ever put themselves through it.
I'm only talking about partners/bf/gf/spouses here, and not people who have children who are addicts. I don't have kids so have no experience there. But I do know that some of my friends' parents got much more wrapped up in and miserable with their kids issues than others did.
In my case, my ex-partner didn't use (that I know of) for the first 15 years that we were together. So I didn't know that he was or would ever be an addict. But now that that relationship is over I can see that there were plenty of red flags right from the beginning, including a neediness on his part that made me feel very important and loved. Looking back on it I can see that this behavior of his was triggering something unhealthy and co-dependent in me. I was looking externally for validation rather than internally. And I was buying into a certain type of manipulation that I didn't even see as manipulation until much later.
I don't know that addiction is the right word, but I do see many people here who stay in situations that are clearly unhealthy for them, who endure upset after upset, who put up with lies and infidelity and relapse after relapse. They set themselves up for continual disappointment, stress, financial hardships, legal issues, dangerous situations for their children, and then blame blame blame others for their problems just like addicts do. And just like addicts they never ever question their own role in their unhappy situations.
It's very sad, really. And if I hadn't been there myself, I would be utterly mystified as to why someone would ever put themselves through it.
On the other hand, my son's current girlfriend knew about a month into the relationship (possibly before). But, after an incident, I out and out told her because I figured she knew what it was but I wanted to be sure she knew what she was getting into. Well she is still with him about 2 or 3 years later after many incidents. So I'd say she has some issues herself. However, people told me things and I either didn't believe it or didn't want to at the time so that is what I mean by the learning curve. We get it when we get it and then decide what to do if that explains it better. I get along fine with her and I feel good that I warned her but each of us has to do what we have to do and all that.
Kari
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 590
Originally Posted by Needabreak
Yeah, it's that "not wanting to get" part that is on us. I was there in Denial Land for a long time too.
People with healthy boundaries avoid such situations.
People with healthy boundaries avoid such situations.
Wasn't it Oprah who said something like "When you see crazy coming across the street, go the other way." It is a bit harder when you don't see it coming. Maybe crazy sneaks up behind you. Lol!
Kari
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I was completely addicted to my XAH for YEARS. My life rotated around his. His wellbeing came before all else. I wanted to be around him at all costs. Come to find out, the cost was very very high. I am now divorced, happily so. It took a lot of work to change the one person I had the power to change, me.
Believe me, when this clicks you will completely get it.
ps...I love the idea that crazy can sneak up on you, it sure can, but as soon as you realize it, RUN!!!!
XXX
Believe me, when this clicks you will completely get it.
ps...I love the idea that crazy can sneak up on you, it sure can, but as soon as you realize it, RUN!!!!
XXX
Member
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 26
" I think that someone with healthy boundaries would not get romantically involved with an active addict in the first place. "
I actually knew that "my" addict had a sex addiction. At least after the first couple of weeks when we started seeing each other. He had been through an inpt. rehab program. He told me that he had "lost [his] moral compass" but that this was a new chapter in his life. Because he and I grew up together (neighbors), I thought I knew him. Plus we clicked so well together.
There were cracks in his armor that I chose not to see. But the lies seemed so small that it was easy. However, now I am realizing that a part of me did sense that all was not well. I thought that part was just paranoid and because I have experienced paranoia before, I attributed my paranoia to that. My man/best friend/lover ( NOT) has a woman - another crack addict - living with him and "I had no idea." I spent a lot of time at his apartment and saw no traces of her. Except that part of me that knew something was up. "She" was always looking for traces and seeing possibilities- but such small ones that they were easy to ignore. He was really good at cleaning up behind her when she cleared out before i went over there.
Denial denial denial. But I did not see ANY traces that he was doing crack. I attributed his spaciness to his Parkinson's disease. It was easy for me to walk out the night (last week) I learned about his crack addiction (many years of it) and the woman living with him. I looked at him and asked, "Who ARE you?". He said he didn't know and that was the truth. I told that he is a good man and that I hope he can get his life together, but that I am done, and walked out.
Is it codependency if you walk out, knowing that your mental health could not hold withstand his crack addiction, deceptions, and the danger he is in? In the quote above - that someone with healthy boundaries wouldn't get involved with an active addict -- do you mean that in the instance that you already knew about the addiction? I have been married to 2 addicts before. I knew of their addictions but thought those were in the past. Well not the last. I very much enjoyed getting high with him (marijuana). I was psychologically addicted to it but left it behind when I left him.
Not sure this makes sense. I have had a hard time thinking straight since I walked out on my best friend/partner/lover. I am blinded by pain and anger.
If I offended the kind people on SR with what I said in my other post about codependency, I apologize.
I actually knew that "my" addict had a sex addiction. At least after the first couple of weeks when we started seeing each other. He had been through an inpt. rehab program. He told me that he had "lost [his] moral compass" but that this was a new chapter in his life. Because he and I grew up together (neighbors), I thought I knew him. Plus we clicked so well together.
There were cracks in his armor that I chose not to see. But the lies seemed so small that it was easy. However, now I am realizing that a part of me did sense that all was not well. I thought that part was just paranoid and because I have experienced paranoia before, I attributed my paranoia to that. My man/best friend/lover ( NOT) has a woman - another crack addict - living with him and "I had no idea." I spent a lot of time at his apartment and saw no traces of her. Except that part of me that knew something was up. "She" was always looking for traces and seeing possibilities- but such small ones that they were easy to ignore. He was really good at cleaning up behind her when she cleared out before i went over there.
Denial denial denial. But I did not see ANY traces that he was doing crack. I attributed his spaciness to his Parkinson's disease. It was easy for me to walk out the night (last week) I learned about his crack addiction (many years of it) and the woman living with him. I looked at him and asked, "Who ARE you?". He said he didn't know and that was the truth. I told that he is a good man and that I hope he can get his life together, but that I am done, and walked out.
Is it codependency if you walk out, knowing that your mental health could not hold withstand his crack addiction, deceptions, and the danger he is in? In the quote above - that someone with healthy boundaries wouldn't get involved with an active addict -- do you mean that in the instance that you already knew about the addiction? I have been married to 2 addicts before. I knew of their addictions but thought those were in the past. Well not the last. I very much enjoyed getting high with him (marijuana). I was psychologically addicted to it but left it behind when I left him.
Not sure this makes sense. I have had a hard time thinking straight since I walked out on my best friend/partner/lover. I am blinded by pain and anger.
If I offended the kind people on SR with what I said in my other post about codependency, I apologize.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Whoishe,
I would call the way you dealt with this last relationship "progress."
Well done.
I wouldn't beat myself up for going honestly into a relationship that didn't have an honest other half. I have no control over the lies I am told and if they are big enough lies they will be revealed and I will have choices to make. I think this is why it's wise to take things very slowly in the early days of relationships.
Boy, did I learn THAT the hard way.
I would call the way you dealt with this last relationship "progress."
Well done.
I wouldn't beat myself up for going honestly into a relationship that didn't have an honest other half. I have no control over the lies I am told and if they are big enough lies they will be revealed and I will have choices to make. I think this is why it's wise to take things very slowly in the early days of relationships.
Boy, did I learn THAT the hard way.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 413
Whoishe,
You walked out when you saw it for what it was. That's the opposite of codependency. And feeling pain over the situation is not codependency either.
What would be codependency would be if you were to spend more time supporting him, trying to change / fix him.
The question to work with though is, why didn't you see him for who he was earlier? What was it that fogged your vision? I ask this because I have spent a lot of time asking myself about what it was in my partner that I didn't see for so long that led to addiction and jail for him, and several years of misery for me. It is in pondering this question that I have experienced a ton of personal growth. I won't be snookered again.....
Good work on getting out so decisively. You did better than I did.
You walked out when you saw it for what it was. That's the opposite of codependency. And feeling pain over the situation is not codependency either.
What would be codependency would be if you were to spend more time supporting him, trying to change / fix him.
The question to work with though is, why didn't you see him for who he was earlier? What was it that fogged your vision? I ask this because I have spent a lot of time asking myself about what it was in my partner that I didn't see for so long that led to addiction and jail for him, and several years of misery for me. It is in pondering this question that I have experienced a ton of personal growth. I won't be snookered again.....
Good work on getting out so decisively. You did better than I did.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: In a good place
Posts: 4,482
Originally Posted by KariSue
Yep, but when something you totally know nothing about just smacks you upside the head, it takes a bit to get back on your feet and to establish those boundaries. Then it is hard to keep those boundaries. Sometimes that is a real struggle. Well when it is your child anyway. You always feel some pull there.
When I discovered my daughter's addiction, I got her to a rapid detox facility within 3 days. I made sure she had the best treatment and access to more that money could buy.
It took me a while to seek professional help for myself, though. When she relapsed 6 months later I was not prepared and didn't know much more than I did 6 months prior. I grossly mistook her allowing me to get her into detox as me knowing how to fix her.
When my diseased ego and foolish pride finally got a massive beatdown from The Beast, then I sought help from professionals and arrived here, too. Not just for her, as in what can I do to help her when she's ready, but also for me to learn how to get over myself.
I discovered the normal response would have been to seek professional/laymen guidance immediately. That's what I would have done if she had any other disease and I even accepted addiction as a disease.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,854
Originally Posted by KariSue
Yep, but when something you totally know nothing about just smacks you upside the head, it takes a bit to get back on your feet and to establish those boundaries. Then it is hard to keep those boundaries. Sometimes that is a real struggle. Well when it is your child anyway. You always feel some pull there.
Wasn't it Oprah who said something like "When you see crazy coming across the street, go the other way." It is a bit harder when you don't see it coming. Maybe crazy sneaks up behind you. Lol!
Kari
Wasn't it Oprah who said something like "When you see crazy coming across the street, go the other way." It is a bit harder when you don't see it coming. Maybe crazy sneaks up behind you. Lol!
Kari
Its not even like everyone who is addicted is an obvious addict. A lot of people are highly functional, and hide their addictions. They work, take care of their kids and we may have people in our lives right now we see everyday who are addicted and we just don’t know it. We wouldn’t until we got really close, saw them at the wrong moment, or witness them getting high. And then it takes time to process this information and weigh it against our own beliefs, and how this relationship affects our lives.
My husband used drugs in college, then he quit and didn’t use again for about 8 years at the time he relapsed. Hes a wonderful man with a long list of positive adjectives I could use to describe him. I wasn’t codependent to get involved with him. When he relapsed last year it threw me and left me in shock and very confused. I only knew what was going on for a couple of weeks before he got really sick, went missing. His parents were excellent and like with any other illness they worked to find him the best care, and I don’t think this is codependent either. Luckily he accepted it !
We work as a team in his recovery, do family counseling and all the rest and I don’t think this is codependent either especially because his doctors recommend it.
I also don’t think Im codependent to stay with him while hes recovering from this. Not codependent because Im willing to accept possibility of a future relapse. To me it would be like saying don’t stay with anyone who has a flaw, or anyone who has a serious illness and it might return one day.
Theres a lot goes on when dealing with addiction, and its ongoing feelings, question, constant learning. It’s a shame there isnt a Codependency Forum here on SR to go along with the Friends and Family of Substance Abusers forum. But I learn something from everyone here so maybe its just as well.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
