SeriousKarma

Just got off the phone with my STBXAH. I had to talk to him about some support money that he owes me. He originally had a legitimate reason for falling behind on the support, but as it often goes with with this disease, what started as a legitimate reason got bogged down in complications.

I decided I needed to confront him on the fact that while he is in debt to me he has, all the while, been living with and supporting his unemployed girlfriend. He admitted that this latest soulmate is not only unemployed and using his car (which I’m also on the title of), but she has a problem getting employment due to some legal problems. Lovely.

Because I like to hear the sound of my own voice, I once again for old times sake, launched into a monologue on how absolutely ridiculous it is for a man in his state of financial and personal f@cked-upedness to enter into a relationship of this nature. That two broken people don't equal one unbroken person, they just equal two really, really, really stupid broken people. Blah, blah, blah. Believe it or not, I was actually quite nice. The conversation was peppered with me saying “I love you, dude, but I’m not going to lie to you. You’re choices don't make sense to smart, healthy people.”

He than said something about me not understanding. Apparently he’s in need of some surgery, and he has no one but her to take care of him.

He ended the call abruptly after that. He hates unpleasant conversations. Especially ones that poke holes in the fantasy life that he’s tried to create for himself. I think he heard himself say that he needed her because he needed someone to take care of him. I know I heard it. It does explain a lot.

Anyway, I got home within a few minutes of the conversation and, once again, found myself bawling as I prepared my dinner. Crying for me has become a kind of joke between my daughter and myself. It happens fairly regularly, for short spurts, then ends abruptly. We actually laugh about my rogue tear ducts. I just get so very sad when I think of how broken he is, and how hard it is for him to make smart, obvious choices.

(And how that “obvious” choice would have been his family.)

I guess sad is better than angry? Right?

Hawkeye13

So SK, is he legally behind in his payments or do you have an informal arrangement?

Time to garnish his wages if he won't pony up fair and square.
And get your car back.

Unless you are an heiress or something who doesn't need the money?

The daughter your both made together has needs that supercede the girlfriend in addiction.

Even if you feel "guilty" about harassing him for your own sake (which you shouldn't)
bust his ass for her sake.

I know I sound tough but my mother was always broke due to non-payment / underpayment of child support and we suffered for it and had many things denied
to us we could have had.

Stand strong, drop the sadness, and get pi$$ed if you need to. . .

FireSprite

You know what? I'm a crier too but I've learned that it's like my internal automatic release switch when the pressure just builds TOO high. So I learned to embrace it (like it sounds like you are doing as well) and I noticed that I cry when my emotions hit a peak - ANY emotion. Joy, anger, frustration, fear, sadness, you name it - when they hit a level that nears Overload, my system has to dump a river of tears to release that pressure. And when my empathy kicks in, I'm d.o.n.e.

But then I always feel better after 15-20minutes, usually waaaaaay better!

AnvilheadII

so HE owes your CHILDREN money but he has the USE of YOUR car???? or at least a car to which you share title?

i'd suggest to back off having non-productive conversations with him and pursuing the legal actions this situation calls for. time to get hard ass, cuz being a softy ain't working. no more being an ear to his woes, no more offering advice, no more listening to his garbage excuses. time to cut the cord. quit feeling sorry for the SOB.

what you see as OBVIOUS choices are not in his wheelhouse. just how it is. he is not capable or interested in being anything other than who he is...now.

SeriousKarma

Don't worry, Hawkeye, I never feel guilty about telling him the truth. I'm the only person in his life who does. But you're right. It never hurts to be reminded to stand strong.

Interestingly, the sadness, for me, comes from a position of strength. It makes me sad to see him so weak.I used to always feel so confused and scared and mad. I never knew up from down, right from left. Life was so crazy. Sad is actually a bit of a relief compared to how I used to feel.

Yeah, Firespite. I do feel better now!

SeriousKarma

You hit the nail on the head Anvilhead. The "obvious" isn't in his wheelhouse. That's exactly why I don't ever have conversations like this with him. It's pointless. This is the first conversation of any real substance that I've had with him in ages.

I'm getting my ducks in a row. But I still get sad.Not such an easy cord to cut.

AnvilheadII

Not such an easy cord to cut.

get a bigger knife. hack it, whack it, chew thru it.....free yourself.

This is the first conversation of any real substance that I've had with him in ages.

and how did that go? was it really a CONVERSATION.....a DIALOGUE where both parties a fully engaged?

SeriousKarma

Anvilhead, let me assure you. I know how to put my big girl panties on.

I'm not whimpering, or whining, or crying out of turn.

I had an admittedly less than wise conversation with my estranged husband that made me sad for a few minutes. I was with him for a quarter of a century. Can I have those few minutes? I'm going to be ok. Really I am. I just wanted to share.

ladyscribbler

Hugs SK. I had a similar moment a couple of weeks ago when my ex got the court summons after I filed for child support. I found myself explaining things that shouldn't need explaining, justifying myself when it was totally pointless and unnecessary, all that good stuff.
He also has a new enabler. I feel sorry for her daughters. They're really sweet girls. We used to go visit them sometimes before his uncle passed away. Yeah, it's his aunt, but they're not technically blood related, despite having the same last name. So long as they're happy, I guess.
I feel sad for him, seeing the wreck of the man he used to be, the one I loved, destroying himself with every choice he makes. I think it's a normal reaction.

SeriousKarma

Okaaaaaaay!

Thanks Ladyscribbler, I think we have a lot in common. Your X was military also wasn't he? That certainly adds a few hundred layers of crazy to the mix.

ladyscribbler

Yeah, we met during a deployment to Iraq. Bonded really intensely. Both ended up with PTSD, though I got help for mine. He also suffered three TBIs, so when he started the heavy drinking it was like gasoline on a fire with the brain damage he'd already suffered. Now he is showing a lot of signs of Korsakoff's dementia. He'll be 33 in a couple of weeks.
The whole thing is just so crazy and depressing, especially his new "relationship", but he really really needs someone to take care of him. After I left it took him about three months to wear out his welcome with his parents, which is really saying something, they are mega enablers. So I guess that's when he hooked up with his uncle's widow. He still hasn't told me officially. His mom called me up crying about a bunch of stuff he'd done and she was the one who told me. I haven't mentioned to him that I know, though I was tempted. During the conversation we had about the child support issue he was ranting and one of the things he said was " Well, I'm getting married tomorrow." I think he was hoping for more of a reaction than, "That's great, I'm happy for you." I wanted to say something snarky about it being convenient that they already had the same last name, but I knew he was just quacking.

SeriousKarma

Yes Ladyscribbler,

TBI's and PTSD and PCS's and a constant flow of changing CO's. It was a veritable alphabet soup of crazy.

I can't argue the diagnosis of TBI, that showed up via tests. But I've always had problems with the PTSD diagnosis. It's not that I don't think my husband has PTSD, it's just that he already had a pretty serious drinking problem before the war. My understanding is that it's almost impossible to diagnose PTSD in someone with a substance abuse problem. I tend to think it's either over diagnosed or mis-diagnosed in the military. Whether my husband actually has it or not, I know he uses it to garner sympathy from people, and he's not doing anything proactive to treat it.

dandylion

SeriousKarma......I know of which you speak. If you only knew how many hours I have stood at the kitchen sink--doing whatever---with the tears flowing like the Danube. I also have found that if I say my thoughts out loud---it is more convenient and time saving than writing them down, most of the time. If you have read any of my other posts...you will know that I am a huge proponent of the "wailing wall" exercise..esp. for anger feelings.
I have read that all tears are not the same. Researchers have measured the content of tears and, have found that some tears have an increased amount of the stress hormones in them---they speculate that crying is natures way of draining excess stress from the body..a release valve. A protective device.

You ask if sad is better than anger---Most anger is composed of fear and and pain and hurt of some kind. Most psychologists consider that anger is a cover emotion for those things---MOST of the time.
It strikes me that your sadness is probably a part of your overall grieving process over the loss of the relationship that you invested so much of your self and your aspirations and dreams into. One has to grieve to go on to greener pastures. So, I see your crying as a healthy thing. And I think your recognition of your feelings is a healthy thing. Yes, I do think it is better than confusion and "blind" anger, on your part.
To me--I believe that there is also "justifiable" anger. Righteous anger. For example--if I see someone kicking a puppy.....I am going to be angry as hell and Will kick some ass on the spot!! I think one has to honor their own social and moral obligations--and anger is a natural response when those boundaries have been crossed.

Now, that I have said all of this.......I think you have every right to be angry at your husbands lack of responsibility to his own daughter, etc. Every right. In essence, he is stomping all over your (and daughter's) welfare. He is harming you all.
I do get it---that "that dog don't hunt"! For a myriad of reasons....he just doesn't have the make-up that it takes to function at that level.
I say...that, at this point, it is best to recognize and accept this (bitter) fact. Don't even spin your wheels and exhaust yourself in any further efforts to try to understand it' to try to change it; to educate him; to motivate him; to inspire him; to shame him; or even to manipulate him. You might as well spit into the wind.
Your best bet will be detachment, BOUNDARIES, and firm, consistent enforcement of those boundaries.
You must begin to grow a thick rhino skin.
You are not a couple any more. You are not in a partnership, any longer. Yes, I know that you share a child together---but, you are still not a couple.
He is responsible for solving his own problems--financial and otherwise.
HE IS NOT TRYING TO SOLVE YOURS, IS HE?????

Hon, you gotta do what you gotta do.

There is a saying in recovery circles--"Say what you mean;mean what you say; but, don't say it mean"

dandylion

****I believe that you can be taken to court if they (husb, and girlfriend) if they were in an accident and injured someone, etc. (if I am wrong, please correct me).

ladyscribbler

Yeah, blaming the PTSD for any and all bad behavior has become the norm. My ex is is currently of meds for a laundry list of issues- Hbp, depression, insomnia, anxiety, etc.- which can all be caused by PTSD or brain injuries, but no one talks about the elephant in the room. The VA docs know he has issues with alcohol (not sure they know the extent) but none of them say anything. He has gotten rid of multiple docs because they mentioned his drinking. So they just keep prescribing meds for the individual issues, like putting band aids on an arterial bleed.
Plus he's so erratic about taking the medication and has gotten so many different scrips based on symptoms rather than a root cause it is impossible to tell what he's got going on.

SeriousKarma

Dandylion, you hit upon so many good points I won't even bother listing them.

It is like mourning. I've known that for a long time. My secret nickname for the STBXAH is Ghostyman. He's there, but he isn't. Just a shadow of his former self.

I've had my turn at anger during our marriage. It felt great, like scratching an itch, but got nothing accomplished. Maybe some people are better at channeling it than I am. I don't know, I'm more of a "keep you friends close, but your enemies closer" kind of person.

When all is said and done, in terms of the money, I've made some calculated choices that were not unwise regarding his military retirement and how long I put up with his BS. The money he owes is only a portion of the payments from a few months ago. Not a huge amount of money. The VA messed up on his first retirement check. At least that's what he said. THAT's the problem. It's been a few months now, and although I was originally understanding (hey... it's the VA after all), I'm now beginning to doubt his honesty, especially in lieu of the fact that he's supporting this woman.

I think the phone call was just part of a cycle that I go through every few months, where I try to put a little flesh on the bones of Ghostyman by getting him to admit to his stupid choices. I've just gotta get on that Crazy Train every once in a while. Choo Choo! I need to remember that I'm not the Queen of his Recovery, and that I need to work my own.

SeriousKarma

Yep, that, that and that.

It's really freaky, Ladyscribbler, just how common what you wrote is. You could knock on the door of almost any house in any military community and find this story.

Did your husband ever have to go to the Army Substance Abuse Program? I had a good laugh the day my husband came home and told me he had "graduated". Got to love the Army. They can graduate someone from alcoholism after a one week course.

FireSprite

Thank you for this dandylion! I had no idea there was real science to back this up so I went poking around after reading your post & I found the reading very, very interesting!

This was a great article:
The Health Benefits of Tears | Psychology Today

dandylion

Thanks for the article, FireSprite. I think this is why a good cry makes us feel better!

dandylion

ladyscribbler

No, he was a reservist. I knew a few guys on active duty who got referred to ASAP. It was ridiculous. A week of classes, maybe an Antabuse scrip and they're "cured." The Army is like a gigantic green enabling machine.

SeriousKarma

Thank you so much for posting that article Firesprite. And thanks again Dandylion for the insight. Very interesting! I'm going to print out a few copies and keep them in my purse to pass out the next time I start crying in public. (Another little personality trait that my daughter has come to accept with a healthy sense of humor.)

I wonder if this has anything to do with why people like "tear-jerker" movies?

Ladyscribbler, Do you think the Army needs to go to Alanon?

What is truly sad is that even the Army know that ASAP is a joke, but they can't figure out how to solve this riddle. The Army has some good programs and some bad ones. This is definitely one of the baddies, but not for their want of trying. My personal belief is that in ASAP, they're stuck using the Army model of "Let's get in there and fix this problem. Go! go! go!" That's great when you want to storm a beachhead, or build a bridge, but it doesn't work when the only person that can solve the problem is the person with the problem.

You're right. The Army is seriously codependent.