lovetohikect

Well, now I'm at the bottom of the well again and I don't know how I'll ever climb back up this time.

For those who haven't memorized every detail of our lives, we are the family with an AS who is also mentally and physically ill, with a character disorder on top of it. He is the person who received a liver transplant and has had an extremely chaotic health situation ever since.

In June of this year we moved him into a 2-month sublet in a city near us. We had told him that after that, we would take away the training wheels.

Two weeks into his stay, he went to the psychiatric ER and expressed suicidal thoughts. He was in the "regular" hospital for a week and then (sorta kinda by his own consent) went to the psychiatric hospital for two weeks. He was then discharged with the mandate of attending daily outpatient. I don't believe that ever actually happened, though.

But wait there's more. While he was away, I started cleaning up the room in which he'd been staying and, in addition to numerous alcohol and pill bottles, also found an appearance ticket for a court date on September 6. We went online and searched his name and sure enough, he had been arrested last June (2013). As I had posted before, he is a chronic thief and liar, and has financially victimized everyone in this family countless times. Apparently he had also done so, to an ex-girlfriend, and he was arrested and charged with three felonies (all fraud-related). We had warned him, for years, that if he ever stole from anyone besides us, there would probably be hell to pay, and now there is.

But wait there's more. After his sublease expired at the end of July, he had told our daughter, with whom he still communicates, that he had found a job and a very cheap apartment share, so notwithstanding the legal problems, I was at least hopeful that he was starting to make some kind of a life for himself, however spartan. When I went outside this morning to take my husband to work, however, AS was asleep in the car and has been homeless for the past week. He said that he's been around town and coming here after the cops kick him out of the public park at night. There is no job, there is no apartment, there is no nothing except these extremely serious charges, as to which there may not be any resolution that doesn't involve a criminal record.

It looks like, if we get him private counsel, this will cost thousands, and getting the charges reduced will involve the payment of thousands more in fines. I know we'll have to speak to a criminal defense attorney before we have any realistic sense of his chances.

I know my husband will want to go to whatever lengths we need to go to, to see if our AS could keep a clean record. I highly doubt that's up for debate, whether it's enabling or it isn't (just noting that for the record).

Right now it feels like we really don't have any choice but to keep him home until this is resolved in a month. It's going to cost enough to resolve it, without paying more for a sober house or another sublet. I am cringing and dying inside, just thinking of having him under my roof again.

I can't stop crying. To me, the idea of being arrested, being in the criminal justice system - it's like crossing the Rubicon. It would seem like a person's life would never ever be the same, ever.

What do people do who have an arrest or criminal record? Do they ever get any job? I mean, is there anything at all that people can do once they're in this category? I know for sure, obviously, he will never be able to obtain any professional license, e.g. law, securities, real estate, but do people ever get any kind of halfway decent employment? If he does come out of this not having to go to jail, what are realistic career alternatives?

I don't know, this more than anything, anything at all, has me just wrecked, just destroyed. Honest to God, I think it would be easier right now if he were dead.

Jane

Fly N Buy

Jane, sorry for your pain - you and your family are among hundreds of thousands that go through the same things. Sure, the details are yours to weep over - but they mirror a lot of others.

Question - Better for who if he were dead??? Pretty bold statement - life is a gift from God. Please remember that!

You'll get some great advice here on SR. This is mine, which probably isn't great advice. But, you get what you pay for!

STOP ENABLING HIM TODAY! I have no idea how old he is but I would guess beyond 21. If he's mentally deficient, get him psychiatric in patient care for as long as necessary. If he should go to jail, let him go. Yes, ex con's can get jobs. It's not easy, but what do you think the end results will be regardless????

YOU CANNOT SAVE HIM JANE.....Doctors can help with mental issues, but he has to help himself. You can help YOU - go to meetings for family's of addicts- Al-Anon is one but there are others. Learn some tools to survive and help the situation = be proactive in YOUR RECOVERY.

Thanks for posting here - again, there are a lot more people smarter than me around and probably more tender. But, sounds like you need a wake up call when you question whether he should be alive??!!!!

AnvilheadII

my opinion - why is it YOUR job to keep his record CLEAN? he commited crimes, he stole from people. shouldn't that be a matter for the courts? you mentioned if he stole from any BUT you he'd probably get in trouble....does that mean he DID steal from you and you did not press charges?

with his track record and problems, i really don't think you need to worry too much about his employability. getting a job doesn't seem to be too high on his list. not giving legal advice but he might fare better if his parents do NOT pay for a private attorney and he goes with a court appointed public defender.

this is not YOUR mess. in many ways, altho with the best of intentions, you have continued to enable and protect him from his own consequences. this is someone who was given a new lease on life with a liver transplant and seems hell bent on self destructing and throwing away such a gift. every opportunity you've given him, he's wasted. you even said after setting him up in the sublet, that after TWO MONTHS the training wheels were coming off. well, now he gets to face the music. LET HIM. quit babying him. quit bailing him out.

suki44883

There are a LOT of people who have been arrested and then gone on to lead successful lives, or picked up with the successful life they already had. Being arrested isn't the end of the world. Trust me.

It doesn't really matter what you and your husband do for your son, he's going to continue drinking and using and stealing and lying until he gets so sick of living that way he's willing to do whatever is necessary to stop living that way.

Continually giving him cushy soft landing spots is not helping him at all and in fact, might prolong his irresponsibility since he knows good old mom and pop will jump in and save him from any consequences.

The best thing you and your husband could do for your son is to quit enabling him. Quit cleaning up his messes and let him figure out how to take care of himself. If he has to live on the street, then that's his problem. He has the ability to get help if he wants it.

lovetohikect

Can I mention something really quickly? No matter what anybody on this board says to do, my husband is going to do what he's going to do which is try and preserve a clean record for my son. I'm sorry that wasn't clear. Hopefully now it is. With everything else going on, I can't come on here and fight with you guys about what you think my husband ought to do. I agree with everything you've posted and I don't know what else to say except unless I get up and walk out the door, I need to live with his decisions.

I do have another question which is... do people in this situation typically absent themselves from the community? The reason I ask is, I don't know very many folks who have had anything like this, but one woman in our town, whose husband was convicted of securities fraud and went to prison, did withdraw from public life. Her kids still do things but she herself stepped back. I live in a pretty small town and I'm fairly sure the news about my AS will travel fast.

I am quite involved in youth leadership (it's something that has been important to me for many years now) and am also on the leadership team for my church. Would it be appropriate at this point to resign from those positions? I'm thinking that, especially as to the kids, parents may well not want me involved with their children's lives. And as to church, I guess I feel I'm hardly in a position to be in leadership. (The woman whose husband went to prison resigned from teaching CCD before they could ask her to leave, and I guess I'd be thinking about doing the same thing).

hopeful4

It sounds like some jail time may do him some good. Possibly a judge will sentence him to getting help. Either way, it's his to deal with, not yours.

I remember all of this, and if I remember correctly you were very upset about your husband being an enabler. My suggestion would be to get a counseling session for you and your husband so he can see what this is doing to YOU. And if your husband insists on enabling your son, I would step back from it 100% and tell him it's his deal, not yours, that you are against it. I definitely would go to great lengths for him not to live there. Is there no homeless shelters in your area?

We must have been posting at the same time. DO NOT RESIGN YOUR POSITIONS! No, no. You need that for you. I would explain quite honestly about what is going on. Hopefully that will also get you some additional support from people who care about you.

Fly N Buy

Jane - I think part of the issue is you have selective hearing(reading)! So you are thinking of withdrawing from life because of your addict son and enabling husband>>>>>

SEEK YOUR OWN RECOVERY GET FOR YOURSELF!!!
In your first group share, say I think it would be better if he were dead - you will get some responses and advice I promise!

Chino

There is no reason to step away from your leadership positions unless you feel your personal life will hinder your effectiveness. Not what has already happened (it didn't interfere, did it?) but your day to day life from here on out.

If your church were to ask you to resign because of your son's choices, they would be rejecting the very foundation of the Catholic Church.

You've chosen to serve God. Please don't stop doing that and reject your service because of your son's choices.

zoso77

Jane,

Usually when mothers of addicted children post what's been going on, I prefer to defer to the mothers amongst us who have been where you find yourself. It's partly for pragmatic reasons (who better to advise you than women who've been there), and partly because I don't have children of my own. But I'd like to say a couple of things. Take what you like and leave the rest.

Your son, for all intents and purposes, is at this moment a functioning sociopath. He will use and lie to anyone and everyone who happens to cross his path. And he will continue to do this until, by some small miracle, he decides to change.

He has made a series of decisions and has performed a series of acts that have led him to where he currently is. And I'm of the opinion that he needs to face the consequences for those decisions and acts. You and your husband should allow this to happen. And yes, it goes against every maternal and paternal instinct that you and your husband have. Doesn't matter. It is necessary for your son to pay the price for what he has done. I would not spend a dime on his defense. See Remy, Jared as an extreme example of what happens what the parents of a bad apple continue to enable and bail their kid out.

I would also go one step further and not allow him under your roof. The chaos and the carnage that he has shown he's capable of, without remorse, is not good for you. He is, functionally, a sociopath. If your son were anyone else, you wouldn't touch that person with a 10 foot pole. The same standards should apply here, too.

As for can he get a job with a criminal record, in my line of work (DoD) probably not. But that's not your problem. That's his.

I'll leave you with this. I'm the youngest of four boys. All of us have college educations. Two of us have Masters degrees in the hard sciences. And when I talk with my oldest brother about young people today and what they need to do to do well in this life, it boils down to this:

* finish high school
* don't knock anyone up
* don't do drugs
* don't get arrested

Your son chose to do drugs. He chose to commit fraud by victimizing someone once close to him. He chooses to not put in the work necessary to become a healthier person. It's time, far past time, that he learns that his behavior is intolerable in a society such as ours. And if he doesn't want to learn...if he chooses to continue on the same path that he's on...then he and he alone should pay the price.

Please keep us posted as to how you're doing.

Hawkeye13

I'm so very sorry Jane.

I know you don't want to enable your son and are caught in the middle.

The idea of the counseling session where you let your husband know how
negatively this is affecting you sounds like a very good idea.

It is your home too.

I think is isn't very "Christian" of Christians to judge you for your son's actions,
so in that sense I hope you don't give up your vocation to serve God in any capacity you wish,
but I also get where you are coming from about small town whispering and judgements.

My sense of you is of a woman strong in faith and morals who is capable of
just about anything. If you are upfront about what is going on with your family,
trust your instincts about what community / religious service you feel comfortable and effective continuing with.
It would seem now more than ever your should have your
friends in the congregation solidly behind you, and I very much hope that is the case.

Please don't stifle your feelings about this with either your husband or son.
They are both imposing an almost unbearable burden on you, and you are
one of the leaders in the family with a valid voice, whether they accept it or not.

We have you back and are ready to listen when you need to talk.

Amysad

Love to hike - do NOT withdraw from life.....addiction is a wide spread epidemic - I can assure you that almost everyone you know has addiction issues in their family whether heroin or alcohol or prescription medicine or whatever - everyone lives in a glass house and everyone needs to learn not to throw stones. Even my husband said the other day " well at least the alcoholics in our family still go to work and don't steal" which proved to me even more that even those of us facing terrible addiction stories still have a hard time understanding addiction IS addiction PERIOD

Lad12053

I am so very sorry your family is going through this. I can relate. My Son is lost in his addiction that is mixed with a mental health disorder. Unfortunately it can not be determined what came first...especially because he cannot put together more than a few days sober....but he has been in jail for 2 1/2 weeks now. Longest he has not used in we think about 2 years. We were in the dark unto recently how bad he was and what he was using. I understand not wanting your son to have a record. I have spent money on lawyers, legally had him removed from my home....he lived in the woods....all because of his choices. I am in no way telling you what to do but from our experience the constant bailing him out was enabling him....we spent over $14,000 dollars in two years only to still be here. Now that he is there and we are not hiring a lawyer or bailing him out, he is safer than living in the woods, stealing to get food and drugs... And telling the world he is there because his family hates him....him being in jail has actually started our healing process...and when I say our I include him. His anger is subsiding....he may end up with a record but " let go and let God." We are always trying to help and bad things keeps circling and I've felt that God is saying...get out of my way, me and him have business to get down to and your 'help' is slowing me down. If that makes any sense. Remember, we have lives too, we have taught them well, sometimes there path is a difficult one and we are the ones blessed to be given the strength to support them from the sidelines.
Lisa

Lad12053

As an added note...I too live in a small rural area, we are well respected in our community....I have felt like withdrawing but why....I have done nothing wrong and neither have you! Theses are their choices. We think our children are extensions of ourselves , a reflection of us. Not true, they are reflections of the sum of choices THEY HAVE MADE. we gave them the blessing of life, showed them the ropes how they decided to swing was up to them.
Lisa

cece1960

Awe Jane, I am so sorry you are feeling so defeated.

I'm another mother that votes to allow him to feel the consequences of his own actions. I too was terrified of my son going to jail. I also tried for years to prevent him from losing jobs. But 2 things are now true:

He is his healthiest when in jail ( and in some ways so am I)
I could never prevent him from losing a job ( he's lost several).
He is perfactly capable of obtaining and keeping employment if he chooses.

If we keep softening the blows and doing for them what they can do for themselves, then we are teaching them that they are not capable.

Try not to worry about the future and what it will bring, it just wastes precious "now" time.

And...hang in there and keep on posting. We are here for you

(((Hugs)))

bluehour

This is my first post, so I am going to tread as lightly as I can....


Jane, I was in a similar ( but not the same) situation 15 years ago as your son. The best thing my parents ever did for me was completely pull the safety net out. I am a strong woman, mom, and wife today. I don't think I would be if they treated me like they treated my brother.

My brother is just like your son. Mental illness, multiple, multiple felonies, personality disorder. He is almost 10 years older than me, mid forties. Babied, bailed out repeatedly, always wired money to. And you know what? Today he is on SSI, has two kids with two moms that he doesn't see, he lives in our parents guest house, he drives my dad's cars, and has his hand out every month for cash.

Is that what your husband wants for your family? For your future together?

You really have NO say in this? I find that hard to believe.

My dad learned the hard way, and lucky for me he cut me off completely at 22. Baby on the way and all.

Best thing that ever happened to me.

My brother, however, will be a jerk his whole life.

desypete

sadly i see many honest decent guys end up in prison and ruin there lives
but there is always hope
i went to prison and i work self employed as a hgv driver i know it doesnt pay the sort of money you might be used to living on but its a good honest job with decent pay

so there are plenty of jobs out there for guys like me who have records but there are some jobs i would never get because of my record but thats life sadly
we have to change to fit in with life as life will not change to fit in with us

so although things might look black at the moment work wise there are ways out from it

glitterdeva

I am so sorry you are going through this. I can tell you one thing from what I have experienced. My AH is a heroin addict, he is currently in recovery, but you know, its one day at a time thing. His mother has been his biggest enabler all his life. She spent her life savings (along with his grandmother's) to bail him out of varies criminal situations. All her life she worked and worked and paid and paid. Since he was a teen. He still got f-p, still got high, still got in trouble, still went to jail, still did all these things. No matter how she helped. Then we met, got married, blah, blah, blah. And I 'took over'. I can tell you from the bottom of my heart - that none of anything we did EVER changed anything he wanted to do. Until your son is ready he will keep doing what he is doing. Lying, stealing, getting in trouble, etc. I know it might sound harsh, but maybe jail is exactly what he needs to hit rock bottom. My AH started his own business and when he is sober he is doing good.

I hope you find some peace, sending prayers ...

Carlotta

On my cell and sending you a hug. Please don't withdraw from the community and stop volunteering...it is his shame not yours and anyone looking down on you because of your son's actions is not worth being friend with.
I know people with felonies who have good jobs and good peaceful lives. All of them have years of sobriety in the rooms of AA. It' s really up to him...you are powerless over his alcoholism
Hang in there and be kind to yourself.

biminiblue

The only time I ever heard applause in an AA meeting was when one young man shared that he had just closed the sale on buying his first home - with his wife and child.


We applauded because he spent years in prison, brought on by alcohol and drug use, and is now an upstanding member of society, helping others.

Jane, speak with your husband and be firm. Have him read this thread. Get some family therapy. I would say putting him in a hotel for a month would be far better than having him live under your roof. The best thing you can do for your son is let him go and force him to deal with his own actions and consequences.

I also agree that your compassion is needed in the volunteer positions. His actions are not yours and I'm sure the church will be behind you. There are many other addicts in your church.

Txhelp

Gosh, I understand to well what you are going through....

You received some input. Here's are my regrets as a mother of (2) substance abusers/addicts. Note: Both have a criminal record; rehabs visits; and mental health issues.

Regret:

1. Allowing them to live and use/come home high. (I eventually would kick them out many times-but became a revolving door). Then, I just kicked them out.

2. The recovery is their business. I tried to SAVE them. I tried to HELP them. This involved paying rent/food/gas/for months on end. This involved bailing them out and getting attorneys. Even then, they would still get into trouble and go back to square one. There was no saving them.

3. Not getting help for myself sooner. Reading codependent books; reading SR posts; attending Alanon-Naranon meetings; individual counseling; speaking with friends/family (honestly)-no secrets.

4. Allowing myself to be manipulated-even after I quit helping/enabling them. I still wanted contact and allowed these dramatic/crisis oriented phone calls. I was still trying to help them emotionally.

5. Thinking that I could save their life. My worse fear was my children dying. Watching them use drugs was like watching someone die before me. I was heartbroken. Unless, they were in jail or in a psych hospital did I feel they were safe. How could I rescue a person that refused to be rescued?

My daughter has almost 90 days of recovery and is working a program. Part of that was recovery time was in jail and rehab.

My son has 3 weeks at the Salvation Army program (6 months) and is doing well. He has been out there (using) for about 6-7 years. He even invited the family for a birthday dinner at the end of Oct. That means he is thinking of long term recovery!

Even with this recent good news. This is up to them. For now, they are sober.