Flossy71

Hi, I've never posted before, despite the fact I've been dating an alcoholic for the past year. Foolishly when he told me he was an alcoholic (and was still regularly drinking at that point) but that he wanted to stop drinking I believed him. 8 months later I left him because I could no longer take the fortnightly fights so that he could justify going off to drink and blame it on the argument (thankfully I was strong enough to identify that was what was going on!) I could no longer handle the erratic behaviour and what I can only describe as emotional abuse. He put me under extreme pressure to let him move into my house and when I said no he refused to see me saying I was treating him as nothing more than a friend with benefits. He didn't like me seeing my friends. Always claimed he never stopped me, which he didn't, but when I started to dread telling him if I was meeting up with a friend I knew something wasn't quite right and it was most likely down to the fact he would put down my friends and accuse them of being more important than him and that I behaved like a school girl not wanting to upset my friends (I'm in my 40s). Ultimately he posted the spare keys he had to my house back through the door as a final attempt at getting his own way with emotional blackmail. So I left him. Wasn't quite the outcome he was expecting! Only I then had 2 months of him constantly contacting me varying from being angry with me because I wouldn't go back to him and how we had split up 'over nothing' to making sure I knew what a mess he was, how much he was drinking, how he'd had a breakdown at work, etc. He'd even get his friends to message me letting me know how much he loved me and what a mess he was in. I eventually caved in and contacted him. There was a certain amount of truth, he was a mess. He was on anti-depressants, had been drinking himself to death every night, would spend hours on the phone to me in floods of tears and put himself back into AA. And so we started again with him admitting his behaviour had been wrong and it was something he needed to work on. 6 weeks later he was back to picking fights over nothing. Admittedly this time round he hasn't been emotionally abusive. If I want a night to myself I don't get the cold shoulder and I no longer get the emotional blackmail around living together, other than the odd mention of how he can't afford his flat and might rent a room instead but I don't bite, I just ignore it. I've made it clear I won't let him move in unless he is well and truly sober, i.e. 2 years, and I'n absolutely not budging on that one. But every weekend without fail he starts on something or other. He will cut across me when I'm speaking and if I complain will tell me what I'm saying is rubbish anyway. He'll complain relentlessly about anything and everything until I can no longer take the negativity and when I politely ask him to stop it and please see the positives in things he'll snap at me about how we can't all be as perfect as me. He took my head off at a restaurant recently after I'd sat down and he moved the table. I'd only asked what he was doing. The waiter came over to take our order and he took his head off. I was mortified and told him so only to be snapped at that it was my fault, he'd done it because he was angry and I'd made him angry. He apologised profusely to the waiter but not to me. The other thing he will now do is storm off back to his flat then call me several hours later and ask why I sound drunk, despite the fact that I haven't touched a drop! He's had 2 relapses in the last 5 months. Swears blind he hasn't touched a drop other than those occasions but then I only have his word on that, there have been plenty of times he's walked out on me over something or other. The times he confessed to drinking he had no choice as I'd suggested I go over to his flat so he had to come clean he'd been drinking before I knocked on his door! Just before he latest relapse a week ago things had got pretty unbearable and I could no longer stand being around him. I have discussed with him how I feel about this behaviour but I get the classic, I'm 'too sensitive', or how every couple argues. Yes but not at 2am because he had noticed that I'd thrown away a lighter that was in my bedroom and he was convinced I'd moved it because I'd smoked - I quit 6 months ago and he's obsessed that I'll go back to it, so much so he will actually accuse me of smelling of smoke when I haven't been anywhere near a single puff! That night he said to me didn't I think it was weird I'd thrown away the lighter. I said not as weird as this conversation at 2am no! Next morning he picked on several topics to get moody over. I refused to rise to it instead asking him if we could start one weekend on a good note please - he left for the day, too angry to spend it with me! 4 days later he relapsed. I've since brought it up again. This time, more honestly I suspect, he said how he'd always seen himself as a nice person and can't deal with it if I tell him his treatment of me isn't nice. Surely he doesn't think speaking to people like that is normal?! So he's basically saying it's either I'm too sensitive or he's too fragile to hear it! He has however agreed it is something he needs to work on and he is now going to meetings every night.

I guess what I'm trying to understand is this, is he behaviour part and parcel of alcoholism or am I dealing with something that is separate to that? If he manages to get and stay sober (not something I particularly hold any hope for now!) if this behaviour is linked to his alcoholism is it something that will improve with time? I've been in an abusive relationship before, which I ended and never looked back. I think the reason I struggle this time is that with my ex there wasn't an ounce of remorse for his behaviour and he was quite clearly cold and calculating and very much a nasty piece of work who would fly into a rage at the flick of a switch, but this one isn't like that. He's otherwise very loving and affectionate and far too easily offended at times. That's what makes it harder I think. I'm really not sure what to think at this point tbh and I'm really not sure why I haven't walked away completely!

I've spent the last year scouring these pages regularly trying to pick up on positives around alcoholism, i.e. people who really do crack it and quit. I know it happens, I have friends with parents who haven't touched a drop for 30 years. But I can't find any happy endings on the internet regarding alcoholism or those who it affects...

ladyscribbler

I think that his manipulation and attempting to isolate you from friends, the constant accusations and especially the gas lighting he is doing "I am a nice person, and there is something wrong with you for not seeing that" are all big red flags for an abuser, which is a separate issue from alcoholism.
Him not drinking will not make any difference if this is who he is underneath it all. He may have a different pattern than your abusive ex, but all his behavior is abusive. Even the "nice guy" stuff is part of it, just a way to keep you hooked in.
It's not an accident that you keep falling for these types of guys. I also have a long pattern of being attracted to unhealthy men and staying in bad relationships way too long. I have been doing Alanon meetings and individual therapy in order to break this pattern and be able to make healthier choices for myself.
Thanks for posting.

honeypig

Hi, Flossy--glad you finally decided to post here! It sounds like you've gotten some benefit from reading here over the past year, and I'm happy we could be there for you. Kudos to you for refusing to let him move in. That level of craziness you do NOT need.

As far as whether things get better in sobriety, I'm not sure that's really the question here. I'd say you're certainly dealing w/someone who doesn't seem terribly serious about getting or staying sober. Maybe his issues are part of his alcoholism, maybe they aren't. But either way, his behavior is unacceptable to you, so does it really matter why he acts like that? The more important question might be, why would you settle for someone treating you like that and behaving in ways you find unacceptable?

You've held him off to a certain extent, but yet you've been hooked into hanging on for a year, hoping for that change to happen, and it seems to me that he's showing you pretty clearly that he's uninterested in changing. Basing your life and decisions on what might happen, maybe, if he decides to change, is just giving him way too much control over your life.

I don't know if you've seen this thread in the past, but you mentioned you have been searching for "success stories", and I think this may give you a new perspective on what "success" really is.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...s-stories.html

Please do keep reading and posting here, and I think things will become more clear to you. You also might benefit from Alanon for some face-to-face support. I wish you strength and clarity.

Rosalba

One thing I've learned during my time in CoDA and Alanon is that unless I'm happy to accept a partner EXACTLY as he is, without needing him to improve himself or change in any way, it's a relationship I shouldn't be in. Hanging around and waiting and hoping he'll change is a tacit message to him that everything's fine as it is, therefore no need for him to change. I've also found that during my time in these programs, something has shifted for me on a fundamental level in that I can now detach from unhealthy relationships very quickly. Sure, I'll need plenty of time to heal, but the yearning and wanting to patch things up, and keep contact has entirely disappeared.

Of course, it can take quite a while to get a handle on who that person is, exactly, as abusers are charming while they're reeling in their partners; a situation which changes once they feel they can get away with it. When I was in a long distance relationship with my now ex partner, I hadn't really appreciated how serious his drinking was - partly through denial, and partly because I just wasn't around to see it.

I'd make the observation that I've seen people change - not necessarily quitting abusing alcohol, but other healthy lifestyle changes. Significantly, not while in the relationship with the person requesting these changes - but in time for the next relationship. I think most of us don't like being told what to do, and to feel that we are in control of our own lives, no matter what a mess we're making of it.

I also know a couple of guys with many years sobriety under their belts, who are both wonderful people and in happy relationships with lovely women. In both cases, though, the wives are NOT the women they were with when they were drinking.

Rosiepetal

It sounds like he reeled you in again, hasn't stopped drinking & you are back on the rollercoaster which many of us here have been on.
Unfortunately you can not make him sober & even if he continues with his sobriety a relationship would have to take a back seat for him whiles he focusses 100% on staying sober.
At the end of the day actions will speak louder than words.
In my opinion I would take a step back, focus on yourself & your recovery while he focusses on his.
If he is sober for a long enough time then you can decide what you want to do from there.
Hope this helps.

Flossy71

Hi All, Thank you very much for your words, all of which I completely agree with.

Rosiepetal - yes he reeled me back in again. In fact, I don't think he every actually intended to leave me alone until he had to. Last time we split 2 months on he was still messaging me and thinking I was playing games with him, 'punishing' him he said and that it had gone on long enough despite the fact I never replied to his messages. After a few months I briefly dated a guy, when he found out I twice caught him stalking my house so I informed the police in case I was in danger and they had a chat with him. I felt awful about the whole situation so finally contacted him about it. When I spoke to him he broke down and insisted he wasn't stalking me, he just wanted to speak to me but didn't have the nerve to knock on my door. And that's the point I started reeling back in! 2 months later he was back to speaking rudely to me, causing arguments and storming off. Claims he didn't drink but then he'd claim that last year then this time around admitted that he had drunk behind my back last year. Even admitted there were times he was terrified I'd knock on his door when he said he was home and he was out drinking! so you're right, he probably has been drinking the whole time but has only admitted to the ones I know about because he could tell I knew. He even told me one time he had been to a meeting when I knew for a fact he hadn't been at it because I'd driven past his flat on my way home (he lives just up the road from me) and I saw his car in it's parking bay!

Honeypig you're saying the same as my thoughts, he certainly doesn't sound serious about sobriety. He picked up a drink 3 years ago (a couple of years before I met him) and hasn't been sober for any significant length of time since. He claims he's managed 6 months before he met me but who knows, he certainly hasn't in the 18 months I've known him! I had always thought to myself how surely if he was serious about getting sober he'd have given it a good shot after 3 years of drinking again! Last year he blatantly had no desire to stop drinking, he used AA as a way to win me back into his life as I'd leave him every time he drank.

You're all right - whether or not he drinks or is sober, that is not the cause of his behaviour. I thought it might be a symptom of his drinking but it's not is it. In fact the very few times I've been with him when he was drunk (in the early days before I knew he was an alcoholic) he switched from holding my hand one minute to flick of a switch backing off and looking at me with contempt and accusing me of coming onto his mate. I hadn't at all, I couldn't even stand the guy, I was only chatting out of politeness! So actually, his sober behaviour is a vast improvement!

And yes, I've been thinking for a while now how although I find his behaviour unacceptable I'm hanging on in there in the vain hope that things will improve. I Know why I do it too, my dad used to speak to me like I was nothing and would turn on me at the flick of a switch (he wasn't an alcoholic just a nasty piece of work) so it's no surprise I'm in this situation really. Only difference is I walked away from my dad and never looked back.

Last night another 'crazy making' thing happened. I was home making dinner for myself when he called and said something was bothering him but he didn't want to bring it up because I'd get angry. I asked what it was. Basically the night before I'd uploaded a childhood photo onto Facebook that a friend had sent me and when he called me that night I'd said to him to look at it, which he did, made a couple of comments which I replied to and that was that. Or at least that's what I thought! Last night his beef with me was to ask why I had liked everyone else's comment on that photo except his (never mind that I'd replied to his comment!) He went on to accuse me of setting him up to make him feel bad by asking him to look at the photo then deliberately not liking it. My response was that I couldn't believe what I was hearing, that I'd done no such thing, it was all perfectly innocent and his perception of it was his problem. Then he started on how I was out of order for liking friends status's around going out drinking. I knew he was making that one up as I have intentionally not been doing that as he's used that against me in the past! I even double-checked today and sure enough, no likes on anything booze related! He then accused me of being controlling, said he needed time out and hung up. Shortly afterwards I received a text from him saying how he needed time out, things weren't sitting right with him, that I was out of order for accusing him of being a bully and that he wants a partner who sees the good in him not constantly telling him how bad he is. Now I'm refusing to have anything to do with him it's back to the whole how this has gone too far and how it always takes me days to get over things. He also added in his messages last night how it's a miracle he's not out drinking. I know, now is the point I walk away and don't look back! I'm dreading having to deal with it though

Flossy71

honeypig thank you so much for that link, just reading through the posts now. Puts such a different perspective on things. I so wish I had actively participated on here a year ago instead of simply searching for what I wanted to see, i.e. hope!

dandylion

Oh, Flossy.....the rubbish that spews from their mouth is enough to just make one gasp!!

That is what this is....just the skewed thinking from the distorted reality of the alcoholic brain.

Yes, I think it is time for facing the short-term pain for long-term gain.

dandylion

Flossy71

Dandylion, I actually just laughed out loud at your comment that the rubbish that just spews out of their mouths!

honeypig

I'm so glad you found the link useful, Flossy. Don't beat yourself up for not "getting it" and taking action sooner. We all progress at different rates.

It sounds like you're starting to see things differently and to place some value on YOU YOURSELF. That's great, and I hope you continue to grow and learn.

I agree w/dandylion, the long-term gain from the short-term pain you're going to go thru will be very much worth it. Keep reading here, keep posting, surround yourself w/support, consider Alanon as a face-to-face resource. You absolutely have it within your power to choose your direction in life, and whether or not this person will continue to be part of your life.

Flossy71

Thanks honeypig, I think what I struggle with the most is believing and accepting that he's actively manipulating and arguing with me, that he actually knows what he's doing. That he's playing games with me. All I can think when it comes to leaving him is how distraught he will be, I mean he spent 2 months making sure I knew that last time round and when I did finally cave and contacted him he sobbed uncontrollably. I hate to think of anyone feeling that way, that's the hardest part. I hate hurting people

Paci

I am struck by how much he is like my xAH. It seemed like you were writing about him. I can see him in these posts. If only he could be sober, he would be the wonderful individual he is and was meant to be. I haven’t found the answer but believe everyone here is right on. It seems if you put up with it and try to live through the mess and let him find the way, he may or may not. What I understand from others is that you don’t have the power to make the change so if you can’t impact the problem, you would want to live in peace. I have a hard time accepting I can’t make a difference, as my xAH seems to respond well to my efforts. However, the end result seems to keep him moving in and out of the addiction as opposed to crashing and maybe getting better. I’m not sure. But mine is crashing without me 

dandylion

Oh Flossy....don't we all hate to hurt people!!!! And it is a feather in your cap that you do have empathy and compassion for others. Otherwise, you would be a narcissist, wouldn't you!?

Here is the sticky wicket, with that: In relationships with addicts--you are dealing with the monster of a disease..that will destroy all that it touches. This makes the rules of normal, healthy, equitable relationships---that we all learned, growing up..topple over. It all stands on it's head and works the opposite of what we think it "should".

There is a saying in recovery circles (AA)...that "the pain drives the train"....
It is actually advised that one not try to remove the pain that flows from the consequences of the alcoholic's actions. For some....the bottom is very low and they will not reach for recovery until their self-imposed suffering is so severe that sobriety looks like a better choice.
Sometimes, the best thing we can do is to get out of their way...and, not try to buffer their discomfort.

You might want to google Floyd P. Garrett, M.D. and read his article on "Addiction, lies, and Relationships" It may give you a better perspective on this.
(if you can't find it--PM me).

I hope these thoughts are of help to you....

dandylion

SparkleKitty

Whether he is doing these things consciously is something you may never know. All we ever have to go on is what people DO. Unacceptable behavior is unacceptable. It doesn't really matter where it's coming from.

And of course you don't like hurting people. Maybe you can consider it more as protecting yourself, and that he is hurting himself through his choices and behaviors.

Flossy71

Thanks Dandylion, although at the mo being a narcissist and not having to feel any of his pain would definitely be preferable! But no, long term I would hate to be that way. Mind you, he did often say to me he thought I might be a narcissist when I gave him a mouthful about his behaviour! Your sticky wicket has certainly helped, thank you. I've experienced so many wtf moments to things he's said and erratic reactions to things I ended up trying to rationalise the completely irrational! That's how the illness makes you sick I guess.

I will google that article now

Flossy71

The last paragraph in that article jumped out at me Dandylion. It explains everything and most certainly the accusatory phone call out of nowhere last night...

"In many cases the addict responds to negative feedback from others about his addiction by following the maxim of "Attack the attacker." Those who confront or complain about the addict's irrational and unhealthy behaviors are criticized, analyzed and dismissed by the addict as untrustworthy or biased observers and false messengers. Their own vulnerabilities may be ruthlessly exposed and exploited by the addict in his desperate defense of his addiction. In many cases, depending upon their own psychological makeup and the nature of their relationship to the addict, they themselves may begin to manifest significant psychological symptoms. Emotional and social withdrawal, secrecy, fear and shame can cause the mental health of those closely involved with addicts to deteriorate. Almost always there is fear, anger, confusion and depression resulting from repeated damaging exposures to the addict's unhealthy and irrational behaviors and their corresponding and supporting private reality."

Clementina

This just sounds like good old-fashioned projection!

You strike me as anything but a narcissist, Flossy.

WendyOR

Great read dandylion

WendyOR

My xabf from day one told me he had been married to a narcissist. From day one. When I started to very gently and lovingly show concern for behaviors... he asked if I was one.... all to protect his bottle. I am the least selfish or self centered person, or self absorbed. I am from time to time if I need time alone, but other than that...

Refiner

Not everyone is the same. Some actually have personality disorders in addition to alcoholism. Take my sister, for example. She used to be a mean, snarky, manipulative, entitled @$$ of a person due to NPD and was a fall down drunk (literally) to-boot. Now she's just a mean, snarky, manipulative, entitled @$$ of a person due to NPD.