moral decline from long term alcoholism
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moral decline from long term alcoholism
I read that one of the symptoms of long time alcoholism is a moral decline. I think it's the damage that's done to the brain from over consumption for so long, but I really don't know; I'm just trying to understand it all.
I've mentioned once before that I have forgotten what "normal" is since I've been with my ABF. Again, I wouldn't be with him if he didn't have a wonderful side to him; the person that I believe him to really be.
His behaviors are inappropriate (with alcohol or not ... although I think there is always something in his system)....at least they are inappropriate to me.
In front of others, at inappropriate times, he's staring me up and down, making sexual comments. I told him it's disrespectful and embarrassing to me; he acts like I'm over sensitive.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
Is this typical of a long time drinker? Is this the moral decline that they talk about?
The other very troublesome behavior is road rage and anger toward others; I never know when he might explode. Again, is this the effects of the long term drinking?
I'm always so torn. He's my best friend and he has a kind heart, but I can't stand these behaviors. I am straight forward about how I feel about this, but it doesn't work. It's exhausting and gives me chest pains. He thinks that as long as I care about him, his behaviors shouldn't matter. I guess that's another symptom of how alcohol makes the brain think.
I wondered if anyone can tell me if this sounds typical or what kind of similar behavior issues they are dealing with. I fear that his brain could be damaged and I pray it's reversible.
I've mentioned once before that I have forgotten what "normal" is since I've been with my ABF. Again, I wouldn't be with him if he didn't have a wonderful side to him; the person that I believe him to really be.
His behaviors are inappropriate (with alcohol or not ... although I think there is always something in his system)....at least they are inappropriate to me.
In front of others, at inappropriate times, he's staring me up and down, making sexual comments. I told him it's disrespectful and embarrassing to me; he acts like I'm over sensitive.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
Is this typical of a long time drinker? Is this the moral decline that they talk about?
The other very troublesome behavior is road rage and anger toward others; I never know when he might explode. Again, is this the effects of the long term drinking?
I'm always so torn. He's my best friend and he has a kind heart, but I can't stand these behaviors. I am straight forward about how I feel about this, but it doesn't work. It's exhausting and gives me chest pains. He thinks that as long as I care about him, his behaviors shouldn't matter. I guess that's another symptom of how alcohol makes the brain think.
I wondered if anyone can tell me if this sounds typical or what kind of similar behavior issues they are dealing with. I fear that his brain could be damaged and I pray it's reversible.
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: New York City, NY
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I don't know about "moral decline" but he sounds just like my ABF. He pulled my dress up on a crowded subway to show everyone, he used to be protective and everything. It was weird. Also with the fighting, he'll pick a fight with anyone, for no reason, just to punch someone (never me, thankfully)...but yeah, this all sounds similar. I have no doubt that he has damaged his brain.
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Originally Posted by carmen220 
He's my best friend and he has a kind heart, but I can't stand these behaviors. I am straight forward about how I feel about this, but it doesn't work. It's exhausting and gives me chest pains. He thinks that as long as I care about him, his behaviors shouldn't matter. I guess that's another symptom of how alcohol makes the brain think.
I wondered if anyone can tell me if this sounds typical or what kind of similar behavior issues they are dealing with. I fear that his brain could be damaged and I pray it's reversible.
I wondered if anyone can tell me if this sounds typical or what kind of similar behavior issues they are dealing with. I fear that his brain could be damaged and I pray it's reversible.
Being an alcoholic doesn't give us a right treat people like crap and then use our drinking and "sickness" as an excuse.
He behaviour will not change because you have already told him you don't like it and he just basically doesn't care what you think. You stay anyways despite the fact he treats you so disrespectfully. He knows your not going anywhere so he doesn't have to change. You see him the way you want him to be, not the way he really is.
Please run from this man. Run away as fast as you can. Go back and read your previous posts to see how much worse your situation has gotten.
Have you gone to any Al-anon meetings? How about counselling?
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Midwest
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Does it really matter why he does those behaviors? You find them repulsive and unacceptable, as almost anyone would. You've asked him to stop. He has not stopped and continues to make you afraid, disgusted and ashamed. As another poster mentioned, this is hardly the response of a "kind-hearted" person, or in fact of a person who is in any way concerned w/your feelings. I know that's hard to hear, but it's the truth.
It's often said here that people are NOT their potential; they are who they show up as. He's shown you pretty clearly who he's showing up as. Sure, he may have potential, but are you willing to waste your life hoping that at some point he'll decide to stop abusing alcohol and you and start acting like a human being? I'm thinking you deserve much better than this, and I hope at some point soon you decide the same, Carmen. As I'm sure you've read here, alcoholism is a progressive disease, and it's likely you can only look forward to things getting worse, hard as that may be to imagine.
Is there some way you can get away even for a few days? Sometimes taking a break from the madness allows us to get some perspective and realize just how unlivable our lives have become. Maybe doing some reading here about boundaries and setting some around this behavior would be a helpful step in looking out for yourself.
I'd also second the suggestion for Alanon for some face-to-face support.
It's often said here that people are NOT their potential; they are who they show up as. He's shown you pretty clearly who he's showing up as. Sure, he may have potential, but are you willing to waste your life hoping that at some point he'll decide to stop abusing alcohol and you and start acting like a human being? I'm thinking you deserve much better than this, and I hope at some point soon you decide the same, Carmen. As I'm sure you've read here, alcoholism is a progressive disease, and it's likely you can only look forward to things getting worse, hard as that may be to imagine.
Is there some way you can get away even for a few days? Sometimes taking a break from the madness allows us to get some perspective and realize just how unlivable our lives have become. Maybe doing some reading here about boundaries and setting some around this behavior would be a helpful step in looking out for yourself.
I'd also second the suggestion for Alanon for some face-to-face support.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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As an alcoholic myself, I think it is dangerous to generalize about "moral decline" in terms of all alcoholics.
My morals really didn't change much with my drinking, my actions did.
What your boyfriend is doing seems more of an intrinsic character trait to me
which may be more acted on while drinking, but is there anyway.
My husband, who has alcohol problems as well, would never do that type of thing to me
especially if I told him, even one time, it offended me. No matter how drunk.
I agree that this is a form of abuse, and a repeat offense would be a deal-breaker for me personally.
People treat us the way we let them.
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this from someone who "cares" about you,
but no, don't blame this one on drinking. This is who he is.
My morals really didn't change much with my drinking, my actions did.
What your boyfriend is doing seems more of an intrinsic character trait to me
which may be more acted on while drinking, but is there anyway.
My husband, who has alcohol problems as well, would never do that type of thing to me
especially if I told him, even one time, it offended me. No matter how drunk.
I agree that this is a form of abuse, and a repeat offense would be a deal-breaker for me personally.
People treat us the way we let them.
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this from someone who "cares" about you,
but no, don't blame this one on drinking. This is who he is.
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 3,050
He is mentally and emotionally cruel to you, he pressures you to give him money because he is financially irresponsible, he guilt trips you, gaslights you and sexually abuses you.
Exposing himself to you in public is just creepy. People have been put on sex offender registries for that type of behavior.
May I ask how he demonstrates his kind heart? In what ways does he treat you as a best friend? This and all of your past posts only detail the bad stuff, so maybe I'm missing something.
I think it is a mistake to try to attribute all of his bad behavior to alcohol. At least some of it seems to be deeply entrenched as a part of his personality. Alcohol is just a convenient excuse, as is blaming you for being "too sensitive."
Exposing himself to you in public is just creepy. People have been put on sex offender registries for that type of behavior.
May I ask how he demonstrates his kind heart? In what ways does he treat you as a best friend? This and all of your past posts only detail the bad stuff, so maybe I'm missing something.
I think it is a mistake to try to attribute all of his bad behavior to alcohol. At least some of it seems to be deeply entrenched as a part of his personality. Alcohol is just a convenient excuse, as is blaming you for being "too sensitive."
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
You can throw all of your focus on him and trying to put labels on him and provide reasons but it doesn't change the fact that unacceptable behavior is unacceptable. Even if you understood it, you wouldn't be able to change it.
What would happen if you took all the energy you put into figuring him out into figuring YOU out?
What would happen if you took all the energy you put into figuring him out into figuring YOU out?
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Perth, Western Australia
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I don't see it as moral decline, but losing social inhibitions through mental decline. You can see it in old people who are developing dementia. My father had a mild case. He was a lovely dignified man but as the dementia took over he would say things he never would have said when he had full mental capacity. Nothing too shocking to others, thank goodness, but we were shocked because we knew him so well. Luckily he didn't have a personality change, but it depends on which parts of the brain are affected some forms of dementia cause personality changes such as aggression or frustration in not coping.
Alcohol is quite capable of advancing dementia by decades. There's a lot of information online.
Alcohol is quite capable of advancing dementia by decades. There's a lot of information online.
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Originally Posted by Bullfrog
I compartmentalized my XAH's behavior for many years. But it's not either/or. It's all him. That was hard for me to accept.
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My dad was an alcoholic, and as a child, I understood him to be two people, "good dad" and "bad dad" and each day I would watch him walk up the sidewalk from work to see which dad was coming home that evening.
My now ex AH was a brilliant, clever, witty man, and very supportive of me in many ways. I thought that was who he was for many years, even as his "alter ego" became drunker and more dysfunctional and a rageaholic and terribly emotionally abusive.
I thought I was a "good wife" to stay with him, since to my mind, "good husband" had serious medical problems and it was my job to be loyal.
In the end, after 20 years, I ran away suddenly after his abusive rageaholic alcoholism exploded into a porn addiction that he would not give up and he gambled with shorting the stock market. My credit card fraud squad called me to verify that he had the right to charge over $1200 on my card for porn stuff and ladies. My story is in the sticky "what abuse is" at the top of the Friends and Families of Alcoholics index page. It's a very insightful thread, especially the opening post by English Garden, which is eloquent about what abuse is.
I almost lost my self, my identity, my soul in the final despairing years of that marriage, and I was lucky to get out. Now, 2 years later, life is so much better. I don't have to be ANY role ever that fits within quotation marks. I get to be ME, whatever that means to me, and I am evolving into more and more as each day goes by and I assimilate and move beyond what I let happen to me. Life is good, now.
ShootingStar1
My now ex AH was a brilliant, clever, witty man, and very supportive of me in many ways. I thought that was who he was for many years, even as his "alter ego" became drunker and more dysfunctional and a rageaholic and terribly emotionally abusive.
I thought I was a "good wife" to stay with him, since to my mind, "good husband" had serious medical problems and it was my job to be loyal.
In the end, after 20 years, I ran away suddenly after his abusive rageaholic alcoholism exploded into a porn addiction that he would not give up and he gambled with shorting the stock market. My credit card fraud squad called me to verify that he had the right to charge over $1200 on my card for porn stuff and ladies. My story is in the sticky "what abuse is" at the top of the Friends and Families of Alcoholics index page. It's a very insightful thread, especially the opening post by English Garden, which is eloquent about what abuse is.
I almost lost my self, my identity, my soul in the final despairing years of that marriage, and I was lucky to get out. Now, 2 years later, life is so much better. I don't have to be ANY role ever that fits within quotation marks. I get to be ME, whatever that means to me, and I am evolving into more and more as each day goes by and I assimilate and move beyond what I let happen to me. Life is good, now.
ShootingStar1
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I think what you want so badly, (mutual respect and a loving relationship), he could care less about.
His behavior is disrespectful to you and drinking does not excuse it. he is NOT a kind person, he has a mean streak and if you think that this is partly due to alcohol it may be, but it is there, repeatedly.
exposing himself in public is lewd and can get him arrested, I have a neighbor that does this, i called the police and that is what happened.
what are you getting out of this relationship? besides stomach upset and worry? i can't fathom even wanting to be around someone who upset me so much.
His behavior is disrespectful to you and drinking does not excuse it. he is NOT a kind person, he has a mean streak and if you think that this is partly due to alcohol it may be, but it is there, repeatedly.
exposing himself in public is lewd and can get him arrested, I have a neighbor that does this, i called the police and that is what happened.
what are you getting out of this relationship? besides stomach upset and worry? i can't fathom even wanting to be around someone who upset me so much.
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I don't think alcoholism is a moral failure. Other than the dementia angle, which needs to be diagnosed by a doctor, my understanding of the "moral decline" explanation is the behaviors that go along with nurturing the addiction -- stealing, lying, manipulating, arguing, gaslighting, etc -- all of which are part and parcel of addiction trajectories.
Either way, people are still accountable for their actions.
At the worst, I think this is abusive behavior. At the very best, it's completely inconsiderate, immature, salacious behavior. You can justify and explain it in a number of ways, but ultimately, explanations aside, this is still something you have to tolerate as the tax on being with this guy.
Personally, at the point where you are experiencing physical symptoms as a result of living with him, it's time to consider other things for yourself.
^^^ This.
Either way, people are still accountable for their actions.
In front of others, at inappropriate times, he's staring me up and down, making sexual comments. I told him it's disrespectful and embarrassing to me; he acts like I'm over sensitive.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
Personally, at the point where you are experiencing physical symptoms as a result of living with him, it's time to consider other things for yourself.
unacceptable behavior is unacceptable. Even if you understood it, you wouldn't be able to change it.
What would happen if you took all the energy you put into figuring him out into figuring YOU out?
What would happen if you took all the energy you put into figuring him out into figuring YOU out?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2014
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Thanks everyone. Some of you are saying that other alcoholics may not behave this way, but what I am trying to figure out is the possible effects on the brain after long term drinking (like 20 years); I don't know if it makes a difference, but the alcohol of choice has been beer and wine all this time. My concern is whether the behaviors are signs of damage to the brain, over time. So, I wondered if you guys see this stuff too.
He has many wonderful qualities, but I am only mentioning the ones that upset me, because he is dealing with an addiction and it helps to get feedback and understand.
He has many wonderful qualities, but I am only mentioning the ones that upset me, because he is dealing with an addiction and it helps to get feedback and understand.
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Location: Arizona
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In front of others, at inappropriate times, he's staring me up and down, making sexual comments. I told him it's disrespectful and embarrassing to me; he acts like I'm over sensitive.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
He flashed me in a restaurant, something he knows is not exciting to me, but shocking, embarrassing and a major turn off.
His words and behaviors are crude... all this is pulling us apart romantically, so he blames me for not being interested in sex, when it's his actions and behaviors.. and of course, being drunk so much. He puts the blame on me; despite what I tell him, he doesn't believe me.
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,388
I would be more concerned about what his behavior can do to you, your relationship with other people, and your own sanity. Like why are you putting up with his rudeness or why am I putting with my husband's? What really makes you stay with him after all these things that you describe? Not all alcoholic behave like that. I do believe it all depends on his personality. But alcoholics cross the lines. It is like they know what hurts you most, and they drill right there. Alcoholics ALWAYS put blame on somebody or something else, and it is never ever ever their own fault. So, when he blames you, it is actually something to expect.
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Carmen, I strongly suspect that my XAH had some brain damage from the alcohol use. He was a young man, drank like a fish for twenty years, preferred vodka, and was more or less drunk 24/7 by the time I figured out what was going on. What they told me then, professionals and laypeople alike, is that there is no way to know until he is sober -- for a long time, like a year at least -- before you can really tease out what conditions and behaviors are independent of the addiction.
What professionals say about addicts in general is that addicts lack the brakes that others do, in general. Why addicts and codependents mesh so well -- until recovery -- is that we all lack boundaries. You're trying to exercise boundaries here, he's wearing you down, and this becomes an acceptable part of your relationship even if you're both miserable. It's how we work -- until we don't.
That's why we say "unacceptable behavior is unacceptable." You can get all the explanations in the world, but understanding him doesn't change the fact that you're both miserable in this relationship.
It sucks. But you're in good company. It's how we all got here.
What professionals say about addicts in general is that addicts lack the brakes that others do, in general. Why addicts and codependents mesh so well -- until recovery -- is that we all lack boundaries. You're trying to exercise boundaries here, he's wearing you down, and this becomes an acceptable part of your relationship even if you're both miserable. It's how we work -- until we don't.
That's why we say "unacceptable behavior is unacceptable." You can get all the explanations in the world, but understanding him doesn't change the fact that you're both miserable in this relationship.
It sucks. But you're in good company. It's how we all got here.
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Location: Pa
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carmen, I need to say "no". This is not what I would normally see, or even once in awhile see from someone that has been drinking for 20 years or more. Even if it was, I think it would be time to leave.
Of course he has a wonderful side to him also. If he was doing this stuff when you first dated him, would you have continued dating him. He had to show his nice side to you, but the fact is, he will continue to do these things now, and this behavior will also get progressively worse. It's a part of him now.
I spent over 25 years trying to figure out why my ex was the way that he was. I researched everything, in the end, it didn't matter. He was who he was whether I understood why or not. He wasn't about to make any changes.
I remember being on a forum and writing about things, then years later I would go back and read it again,, and think to myself "is that all he did that time"? lol
I go back now and read them, and it was like "wow", how did you ever survive that? How did you think that was normal?
Guess I am gently saying that you can try to read all you want to give him an explanation for his behavior, but that isn't doing you any good. He's not changing his behavior, and it will continue to get worse.
Of course he has a wonderful side to him also. If he was doing this stuff when you first dated him, would you have continued dating him. He had to show his nice side to you, but the fact is, he will continue to do these things now, and this behavior will also get progressively worse. It's a part of him now.
I spent over 25 years trying to figure out why my ex was the way that he was. I researched everything, in the end, it didn't matter. He was who he was whether I understood why or not. He wasn't about to make any changes.
I remember being on a forum and writing about things, then years later I would go back and read it again,, and think to myself "is that all he did that time"? lol
I go back now and read them, and it was like "wow", how did you ever survive that? How did you think that was normal?
Guess I am gently saying that you can try to read all you want to give him an explanation for his behavior, but that isn't doing you any good. He's not changing his behavior, and it will continue to get worse.
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
As an alcoholic myself, I think it is dangerous to generalize about "moral decline" in terms of all alcoholics.
My morals really didn't change much with my drinking, my actions did.
What your boyfriend is doing seems more of an intrinsic character trait to me
which may be more acted on while drinking, but is there anyway.
My husband, who has alcohol problems as well, would never do that type of thing to me
especially if I told him, even one time, it offended me. No matter how drunk.
I agree that this is a form of abuse, and a repeat offense would be a deal-breaker for me personally.
People treat us the way we let them.
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this from someone who "cares" about you,
but no, don't blame this one on drinking. This is who he is.
My morals really didn't change much with my drinking, my actions did.
What your boyfriend is doing seems more of an intrinsic character trait to me
which may be more acted on while drinking, but is there anyway.
My husband, who has alcohol problems as well, would never do that type of thing to me
especially if I told him, even one time, it offended me. No matter how drunk.
I agree that this is a form of abuse, and a repeat offense would be a deal-breaker for me personally.
People treat us the way we let them.
I'm very sorry you are dealing with this from someone who "cares" about you,
but no, don't blame this one on drinking. This is who he is.
I remember, shortly after being married, when my AH lifted up my skirt and shot canned air up the back of my rear end. I wound up with a freezer burn and serious pain for weeks. Yes, he felt awful about it and apologized, but the action itself was immature and, quite frankly, stupid. What 30 something year old man does this to their wife? I never had the guts to ask that question way back when, so I'm asking you to really look at who he is: warts and all and ask yourself if you want to continue on in this way. What do YOU want for YOU? Sending you support and hugs today!
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