"BIG Plan" Clarification;
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 20
"BIG Plan" Clarification;
Hey everybody!
Today is Day #9 and I'm feeling great! I was reading a couple of responses last night in another thread I'd posted here, which has stirred up some ambivalence and unanswered questions regarding my "Big Plan". With ALL of the techniques, stories etc shared here by so many, I think my situation, although hardly unique, raises some valid questions and need for clarity.
As I'd mentioned, I'm off of alcohol for over a week now. Feeling GREAT, loving life and enjoying the plans I'm making to return to physical fitness and all of the other positive life changes as a result of abstinence. However, for various reasons I am questioning whether or not I've really made a "BIG Plan" or not. When I voice some of my ambivalence here in the forum, the typical message I'm perceiving is "You haven't made a Big Plan and AVRT won't work until you do!". The problem is, I have a desire to be a non-drinker just as I've made the resolve to be a non-drug user (3) years ago. I've practiced AVRT for the last (9) days, therefore I OBVIOUSLY realize there's a problem and made the decision on my own to quit, and have had very little struggle to stay sober since. So does this mean that if I'm feeling ambivalence at Day #9 that I HAVEN'T truly made a Big Plan?
Here's the point/question - Is a "Big Plan" sometimes developed over days or weeks of non-drinking, thru the practice of AVRT, while going back over one's consequences and reasons for quitting in the first place? OR, am I screwed because whatever resolve I made (9) days ago to never drink again is now faced with some ambivalence, indicating that a "Big Plan" was never truly made in the first place, and can't be unless it is made before you stop drinking, therefore I might as well just go drink again (which I have no desire to do). Will someone PLEASE get a little more in detail, and if there is anyone out there who developed a Big Plan AFTER they initially quit drinking and is still sober to this day, please share their story?!?
This is just confusing and probably doesn't need to be. Maybe some more personal stories of the process will help bring some clarity. Thanks!! :-D
Today is Day #9 and I'm feeling great! I was reading a couple of responses last night in another thread I'd posted here, which has stirred up some ambivalence and unanswered questions regarding my "Big Plan". With ALL of the techniques, stories etc shared here by so many, I think my situation, although hardly unique, raises some valid questions and need for clarity.
As I'd mentioned, I'm off of alcohol for over a week now. Feeling GREAT, loving life and enjoying the plans I'm making to return to physical fitness and all of the other positive life changes as a result of abstinence. However, for various reasons I am questioning whether or not I've really made a "BIG Plan" or not. When I voice some of my ambivalence here in the forum, the typical message I'm perceiving is "You haven't made a Big Plan and AVRT won't work until you do!". The problem is, I have a desire to be a non-drinker just as I've made the resolve to be a non-drug user (3) years ago. I've practiced AVRT for the last (9) days, therefore I OBVIOUSLY realize there's a problem and made the decision on my own to quit, and have had very little struggle to stay sober since. So does this mean that if I'm feeling ambivalence at Day #9 that I HAVEN'T truly made a Big Plan?
Here's the point/question - Is a "Big Plan" sometimes developed over days or weeks of non-drinking, thru the practice of AVRT, while going back over one's consequences and reasons for quitting in the first place? OR, am I screwed because whatever resolve I made (9) days ago to never drink again is now faced with some ambivalence, indicating that a "Big Plan" was never truly made in the first place, and can't be unless it is made before you stop drinking, therefore I might as well just go drink again (which I have no desire to do). Will someone PLEASE get a little more in detail, and if there is anyone out there who developed a Big Plan AFTER they initially quit drinking and is still sober to this day, please share their story?!?
This is just confusing and probably doesn't need to be. Maybe some more personal stories of the process will help bring some clarity. Thanks!! :-D
Self recovered Self discovered
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Toronto Canada
Posts: 5,148
Chris, congratulations on your success in sobriety.
I think it is likely that your 'ambivalence' about your sobriety decision is your AV doing what it does, don't you think?. A big part of AVRT is recognizing this voice, and surely this second guessing is squarely in the realm of AV.
I am not sure what you understand a Big Plan to be, but I work on the concept that it expresses a vow of sobriety that will never be broken. I have learned that this is a tool for AV recognition as well as a foundation for sobriety. It works as a tool, because any thought that makes us uneasy when the bp is considered, can automatically set off the alarm - There be AV, right there, b'y.
I think many or most of us quit drinking, and then solidified their resolve to permanent sobriety with a BP afterwards. I know I did. At first, it was like looking into the gates of Hell, I thought, but after a while sober, I began to understand that there was actually sunshine on the other side of that door, and my future way lay through it.
There are lots of threads with Big Plan in the title, and you can use google to search them out. Enter this in the search window: site:recovery.com Big Plan.
JKB's big plan thread is a good one, and the general AVRT Discussion thread covers this too.
I think it is likely that your 'ambivalence' about your sobriety decision is your AV doing what it does, don't you think?. A big part of AVRT is recognizing this voice, and surely this second guessing is squarely in the realm of AV.
I am not sure what you understand a Big Plan to be, but I work on the concept that it expresses a vow of sobriety that will never be broken. I have learned that this is a tool for AV recognition as well as a foundation for sobriety. It works as a tool, because any thought that makes us uneasy when the bp is considered, can automatically set off the alarm - There be AV, right there, b'y.
I think many or most of us quit drinking, and then solidified their resolve to permanent sobriety with a BP afterwards. I know I did. At first, it was like looking into the gates of Hell, I thought, but after a while sober, I began to understand that there was actually sunshine on the other side of that door, and my future way lay through it.
There are lots of threads with Big Plan in the title, and you can use google to search them out. Enter this in the search window: site:recovery.com Big Plan.
JKB's big plan thread is a good one, and the general AVRT Discussion thread covers this too.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Mid-Atlantic USA
Posts: 2,441
Chris, I believe you're over-complicating the technique.
You mentioned being "screwed" because of ambivalence about stopping; however, you're not screwed. The ambivalence you feel is natural, and it's your Beast speaking to you through the Addictive Voice. The Beast is suggesting that quitting for good means you won't have fun any longer, or that quitting will mean you're deprived of something.
As an example, a guy named Bob decides to quit for good and has been sober for awhile using AVRT. At this point in his sobriety he doesn't have many urges to drink. However, Bob starts thinking about his upcoming vacation at the beach. Because of his past drinking history, Bob begins to wonder how he could possibly enjoy a vacation without alcohol. He feels like the vacation won't be fun because he won't be drinking. Those thoughts are his Addictive Voice telling him something that isn't true. It's untrue because it is entirely possible to enjoy a vacation without drinking.
Remember, the Addictive Voice is any thought, emotion, image or feeling that suggests you break your Big Plan to "never drink again, to never change your mind, no matter what." And once these thoughts are recognized as coming from "it" (the Beast) and not from "you" (your rational self) the AV will begin to quiet down.
You mentioned being "screwed" because of ambivalence about stopping; however, you're not screwed. The ambivalence you feel is natural, and it's your Beast speaking to you through the Addictive Voice. The Beast is suggesting that quitting for good means you won't have fun any longer, or that quitting will mean you're deprived of something.
As an example, a guy named Bob decides to quit for good and has been sober for awhile using AVRT. At this point in his sobriety he doesn't have many urges to drink. However, Bob starts thinking about his upcoming vacation at the beach. Because of his past drinking history, Bob begins to wonder how he could possibly enjoy a vacation without alcohol. He feels like the vacation won't be fun because he won't be drinking. Those thoughts are his Addictive Voice telling him something that isn't true. It's untrue because it is entirely possible to enjoy a vacation without drinking.
Remember, the Addictive Voice is any thought, emotion, image or feeling that suggests you break your Big Plan to "never drink again, to never change your mind, no matter what." And once these thoughts are recognized as coming from "it" (the Beast) and not from "you" (your rational self) the AV will begin to quiet down.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
I like the name "Big Plan" because it emphasizes what I believe is its ONLY big feature. The Big Plan lasts until the end of time. That's a big, big, big, continuous string of days. That sole big feature is its true value.
All other features of the Big Plan are actually quite small, as I understand it. And these small features also have great value for me.
1 - It takes a very tiny amount of time to make the Big Plan. Making the Big Plan is an event, not a process.
While there is a lot of trial and error before making it, making it can take as few as five seconds. "I will never drink again". There will be Beast activity following those five seconds, and it will come and go and fade over time, but having made the Big Plan, that Beast activity is rendered impotent - no crossroads - no choices.
2 - It ends what was a very tiny range of behavior, swallowing alcohol.
3 - It takes a very small amount of intelligence to understand...
a. what it means.
b. that I can make it only once.
c. that I can't lie to myself about having made it.
4 - It takes an extremely small amount of energy to make a Big Plan; the calories one burns while at rest for five seconds.
5 - It takes the very smallest cost to make a Big Plan, zero cents.
6 - There is a very, very tiny chance that I will ever unknowingly swallow alcohol especially in an amount that would mean anything since it has such a noticeable taste, and it would have to happen one inch from my nose, and three inches from my eyes, and involve bringing something to my mouth with my hand and opening my mouth and consciously swallowing something.
All other features of the Big Plan are actually quite small, as I understand it. And these small features also have great value for me.
1 - It takes a very tiny amount of time to make the Big Plan. Making the Big Plan is an event, not a process.
While there is a lot of trial and error before making it, making it can take as few as five seconds. "I will never drink again". There will be Beast activity following those five seconds, and it will come and go and fade over time, but having made the Big Plan, that Beast activity is rendered impotent - no crossroads - no choices.
2 - It ends what was a very tiny range of behavior, swallowing alcohol.
3 - It takes a very small amount of intelligence to understand...
a. what it means.
b. that I can make it only once.
c. that I can't lie to myself about having made it.
4 - It takes an extremely small amount of energy to make a Big Plan; the calories one burns while at rest for five seconds.
5 - It takes the very smallest cost to make a Big Plan, zero cents.
6 - There is a very, very tiny chance that I will ever unknowingly swallow alcohol especially in an amount that would mean anything since it has such a noticeable taste, and it would have to happen one inch from my nose, and three inches from my eyes, and involve bringing something to my mouth with my hand and opening my mouth and consciously swallowing something.
Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 596
Like feenix said, the ambivalence is your AV, doubting your resolve or doubting that this method can work for you (suggesting to you that you did it "wrong" so even if it could work for others, it won't work for you). The Beast is extraordinarily clever and will manipulate you and attack you from a number of angles that will lessen over time. It will change tactics to achieve what it wants - another drink. Remember though, ANY thought or idea that promotes the possibility of you drinking or using again is pure AV.
Hears The Voice
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Unshackled
Posts: 7,901
Originally Posted by ChrisM 
So does this mean that if I'm feeling ambivalence at Day #9 that I HAVEN'T truly made a Big Plan?
Hypothetically, GT or Freshstart could sit and fantasize about alcohol all day long. Their BPs preclude drinking it, not thinking about it.
We learn to shut the AV down because it's a waste of time to interact with it, not because there are rules against it. I can stand for hours opening and closing a door I never intend to walk through, but what would be the point?
Congrats on 9 days sober and 3 years off the drugs.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Ireland
Posts: 25,826
Sometimes we can can overthink techniques, methods etc
The PLAN is to be Sober, if you've achieved 9 Days Sober then your plan so far is working, and if you never pick up a drink again then your plan was fantastic when you look back in hindsight!!
Making sure things that will crop up in the future don't cause you to drink is a part of planning ahead, but again if you have the right support and techniques in place then you'll have a solid foundation moving forward.
Keep pushing through!!
The PLAN is to be Sober, if you've achieved 9 Days Sober then your plan so far is working, and if you never pick up a drink again then your plan was fantastic when you look back in hindsight!!
Making sure things that will crop up in the future don't cause you to drink is a part of planning ahead, but again if you have the right support and techniques in place then you'll have a solid foundation moving forward.
Keep pushing through!!
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 12,000
ha, It took me a while to understand what a Big Plan was, because I never made a big plan. I just quit drinking. Then vowed to never drink again. I think the "plan" part of it is what may be confusing. It is more a continued action.
Liken your Big Plan to a flyswatter, your AV to a fly. You carry this fly swatter with you everywhere but rarely have to use it. When a fly happens along, swat it. Put your fly swatter away until you need it again.
Liken your Big Plan to a flyswatter, your AV to a fly. You carry this fly swatter with you everywhere but rarely have to use it. When a fly happens along, swat it. Put your fly swatter away until you need it again.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
Second That Motion
In the first ~2 months of Sobriety before I found SR, I pretty much followed the LBrain Method. Great Minds think alike, and so do he and I. 
My HP is Comedian Henny Youngman:
Patient [lifting his Arm over his Head]: 'Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do that'.
Doctor: 'OK, so don't do that'.
This is my approach to Drinking after >6.5 months.
My HP is Comedian Henny Youngman:
Patient [lifting his Arm over his Head]: 'Doctor Doctor, it hurts when I do that'.
Doctor: 'OK, so don't do that'.
This is my approach to Drinking after >6.5 months.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,536
Liken your Big Plan to a flyswatter, your AV to a fly. You carry this fly swatter with you everywhere but rarely have to use it. When a fly happens along, swat it. Put your fly swatter away until you need it again.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 20
Well, I haven't checked in in a few days because I more or less BLEW IT! Not with alcohol ironically. Last Friday night I was installing a ceiling fan for my girlfriend. After I got all done and we were picking up the odds and ends, etc I turned to bend and grab an empty box on the floor. Before I even got far enough down to grab it, my lower back all but completely gave out. This was a result of a previous lower back strain over a year ago while working out at the gym. Needless to say, Saturday I went to the urgent care. Didn't dare ask for an opiate etc, but they did offer Soma, and against my better judgement I took it. Unfortunately I knew better, and also was somewhat aware of its recreational benefits as well - even though I actually have never taken the drug before. Soooooo, today starts back at day #1. I'm angry and frustrated, but also realizing that we all get a do-over when we screw up. I guess it's one more thing to add to my list of reasons why I HATE addiction and the beast.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 20
Originally Posted by trachemys
Prescribed drugs don't count, I was told. Good thing as I'm using AD's to not drink.
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
Slip & Slide
Some Guy posted in this Forum about being given a Drink, not asked for, at a Wedding. He tasted the Rum, and discretely set aside the Drink. No further involvement with the Mixed Drink. I say that event didn't count.
Unless you now go off and further consume 'Soma', I'd give this event a 'pass' and let go of it. No need to beat yourself up. We all know we can slip and get dragged back into that cycle with a DOC. Barring that, consider yourself back in the Saddle and movin' on.
My pseudo-Buddhist side sees this as a positive event. You got a Bucket of Water in the Face to remind you that it's easy to slip. So, don't. I call this reminder a lil blessing in disguise.
I take Valerian Root occasionally as a Sleep Aid. Until this Post, I never even thought of it as a possible Relapse DOC. Still don't. I don't abuse it, or take it Recreationally. Since I sleep better now Sober, this issue doesn't come up much.
Unless you now go off and further consume 'Soma', I'd give this event a 'pass' and let go of it. No need to beat yourself up. We all know we can slip and get dragged back into that cycle with a DOC. Barring that, consider yourself back in the Saddle and movin' on.
My pseudo-Buddhist side sees this as a positive event. You got a Bucket of Water in the Face to remind you that it's easy to slip. So, don't. I call this reminder a lil blessing in disguise.
I take Valerian Root occasionally as a Sleep Aid. Until this Post, I never even thought of it as a possible Relapse DOC. Still don't. I don't abuse it, or take it Recreationally. Since I sleep better now Sober, this issue doesn't come up much.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Palm Springs, CA
Posts: 20
I just went back to re-read what I posted earlier. Let me clarify that I was taking MORE than prescribed. Granted, the initial injury was legitimate and my back definitely benefitted greatly from a muscle relaxer, I still knowingly abused the medication. I have no desire to refill it, nor do I have a desire or plan to drink.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,677
Hey Chris,
I hear ya. This was definitely a brush with a potential relapse. If this is as close as you ever get, you can chalk it up to a "whew that was close."
Take it as a warning, that's all. The AV is pretty good at convincing you that it has rational advice, but as you found out, it can't be trusted. Put this behind you.
I hear ya. This was definitely a brush with a potential relapse. If this is as close as you ever get, you can chalk it up to a "whew that was close."
Take it as a warning, that's all. The AV is pretty good at convincing you that it has rational advice, but as you found out, it can't be trusted. Put this behind you.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toronto ON
Posts: 1,180
I think the essence of The Big Plan is the difference between quitting drinking for now and quitting drinking forever.
For me, I quit drinking "for now" for about 6 months before I began to figure out the forever thing. Making that leap to forever is The Big Plan. Being able to say the words "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind" and have it actually resonate with truth for you is The Big Plan. It still makes me tingle when I say it and truly mean it.
For me, I quit drinking "for now" for about 6 months before I began to figure out the forever thing. Making that leap to forever is The Big Plan. Being able to say the words "I will never drink again and I will never change my mind" and have it actually resonate with truth for you is The Big Plan. It still makes me tingle when I say it and truly mean it.
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