Trying to quantify where I'm at - looking for advice
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 5
Trying to quantify where I'm at - looking for advice
Hello all, unsurprisingly I'm here looking for help and as such, any help offered is hugely appreciated.
I was hoping to outline where I'm up to with my drinking to try and put myself on a scale in order to quantify my problem with booze. I'll give you some background and hard numbers.
My goal isn't lifelong sobriety, it's to make my problem drinking go away and be able to enjoy drinking again, rather than be its slave. I'm aware this will be unpopular and I've read and understand the counterpoints to my goal but that's my goal in life. The idea of not being able to enjoy a cocktail on the beach or a glass of wine in Tuscany on vacation with a meal makes life sound terrible.
My average intake of alcohol per day, every day is as follows:
Vomit most days upon waking
Large shot of brandy at around 6AM
Personal size (100ML) of rum or half pint of brandy between 9AM - noon
Two large strong beers at around 3PM
Fifth of liquor, usually brandy, starting at 6:30PM
Add into this mix random other drinks I have or just want. I'll pick up beers with my fifth, sometimes wine coolers. I'll drink the above even if I'm out drinking socially, so the true daily amount is somewhat more than I've explained.
Anxiety and depression from being hungover all the time
This has been for the last three years or so. My drinking started at 12 and has steadily escalated to this point. I'm 37 this year
My current problems are:
If I can't drink I shake, badly
I have basic cognitive issues, including stammering, inability to use my hands very well
Hot/cold flashes, sweating
I barely eat as I have zero appetite for obvious reasons - I suspect this is causing mineral and other deficiencies which are a concern to me, specifically when it comes to seizure risk
General fatigue and apathy
I drive over the limit every day - Which I hate myself for. I have one DUI
As of today I've cut myself back to a beer and a half pint per day, which seems to take the edge off
I start a new job on Friday. While I'll be earning significantly more money, I will lose my health insurance. From my own research, in-patient withdrawal seems to be heavy-handed and dangerous. The doses, types and frequency of the drugs used just read like an accident waiting to happen. I'm going to do this at home, while living a normal life, going to work, etc.
I'm worried about my new job, especially shaking and stammering my way through the initial phases. I'm faced with either that or stinking of booze.
Previous experience with addiction and withdrawal:
Cocaine: Addict for three years. Daily use of about 2G. Stopped one day because I found it disgusting, on all levels. Pretty easy physically, tough mentally. Five mild relapses in the last ten years. As in one night binges, always when drunk. (Shocker I know!)
Oxycodone: Addict for about 18 months. Daily use of 120MG per day, snorted. Stopped one day because I could feel my addiction escalating towards a dark place. It was tough. Three minor relapses in the last four years.
Citalopram. I was prescribed 80MG daily for about a year. Withdrawals from that were insane at every stage. I just kept cutting my intake down by half until it was gone. I'd never take that again, it was worse than everything else combined by a long way.
I currently take diazepam (Valium) recreationally and in times of acute anxiety. 10MG about once a week, perhaps even less than that. I don't really do drugs anymore - don't even smoke pot.
About me:
36
Male
Professional
6'3"
185LB
Keep myself in average shape
Secularist (Please don't tell me to find god. I mean this with utmost respect to whichever religion may help you. That path is not for me and never will be.)
I'm not sure if I'm over-sharing but data is data, right?
I've already spent much of today reading threads on here and it was a great help. Many are anecdotal which makes for more interesting reading than what I just typed. However my goals are different to most and I need hard info right now to work out what risks I'm facing and what to look forward to in the coming weeks.
Again, and I can't say this enough, your guidance and help is hugely appreciated.
I was hoping to outline where I'm up to with my drinking to try and put myself on a scale in order to quantify my problem with booze. I'll give you some background and hard numbers.
My goal isn't lifelong sobriety, it's to make my problem drinking go away and be able to enjoy drinking again, rather than be its slave. I'm aware this will be unpopular and I've read and understand the counterpoints to my goal but that's my goal in life. The idea of not being able to enjoy a cocktail on the beach or a glass of wine in Tuscany on vacation with a meal makes life sound terrible.
My average intake of alcohol per day, every day is as follows:
Vomit most days upon waking
Large shot of brandy at around 6AM
Personal size (100ML) of rum or half pint of brandy between 9AM - noon
Two large strong beers at around 3PM
Fifth of liquor, usually brandy, starting at 6:30PM
Add into this mix random other drinks I have or just want. I'll pick up beers with my fifth, sometimes wine coolers. I'll drink the above even if I'm out drinking socially, so the true daily amount is somewhat more than I've explained.
Anxiety and depression from being hungover all the time
This has been for the last three years or so. My drinking started at 12 and has steadily escalated to this point. I'm 37 this year
My current problems are:
If I can't drink I shake, badly
I have basic cognitive issues, including stammering, inability to use my hands very well
Hot/cold flashes, sweating
I barely eat as I have zero appetite for obvious reasons - I suspect this is causing mineral and other deficiencies which are a concern to me, specifically when it comes to seizure risk
General fatigue and apathy
I drive over the limit every day - Which I hate myself for. I have one DUI
As of today I've cut myself back to a beer and a half pint per day, which seems to take the edge off
I start a new job on Friday. While I'll be earning significantly more money, I will lose my health insurance. From my own research, in-patient withdrawal seems to be heavy-handed and dangerous. The doses, types and frequency of the drugs used just read like an accident waiting to happen. I'm going to do this at home, while living a normal life, going to work, etc.
I'm worried about my new job, especially shaking and stammering my way through the initial phases. I'm faced with either that or stinking of booze.
Previous experience with addiction and withdrawal:
Cocaine: Addict for three years. Daily use of about 2G. Stopped one day because I found it disgusting, on all levels. Pretty easy physically, tough mentally. Five mild relapses in the last ten years. As in one night binges, always when drunk. (Shocker I know!)
Oxycodone: Addict for about 18 months. Daily use of 120MG per day, snorted. Stopped one day because I could feel my addiction escalating towards a dark place. It was tough. Three minor relapses in the last four years.
Citalopram. I was prescribed 80MG daily for about a year. Withdrawals from that were insane at every stage. I just kept cutting my intake down by half until it was gone. I'd never take that again, it was worse than everything else combined by a long way.
I currently take diazepam (Valium) recreationally and in times of acute anxiety. 10MG about once a week, perhaps even less than that. I don't really do drugs anymore - don't even smoke pot.
About me:
36
Male
Professional
6'3"
185LB
Keep myself in average shape
Secularist (Please don't tell me to find god. I mean this with utmost respect to whichever religion may help you. That path is not for me and never will be.)
I'm not sure if I'm over-sharing but data is data, right?
I've already spent much of today reading threads on here and it was a great help. Many are anecdotal which makes for more interesting reading than what I just typed. However my goals are different to most and I need hard info right now to work out what risks I'm facing and what to look forward to in the coming weeks.Again, and I can't say this enough, your guidance and help is hugely appreciated.
bona fido dog-lover
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SF Bay area, CA
Posts: 99,777
You only want to make your problem drinking 'go away'. How do you want to do that? By quitting for a while? By cutting down?
With what you've told us, it sounds like you're very alcohol-dependent and go thru withdrawal when you don't drink.
I won't tell you to find god and I won't tell you that complete sobriety is the only way to go. Maybe you will be able to drink normally again one day.
All I know is that I tried to drink normally and always failed miserably. I hope you do better.
With what you've told us, it sounds like you're very alcohol-dependent and go thru withdrawal when you don't drink.
I won't tell you to find god and I won't tell you that complete sobriety is the only way to go. Maybe you will be able to drink normally again one day.
All I know is that I tried to drink normally and always failed miserably. I hope you do better.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,209
I think you should see a doctor in order to detox safely (relatively safely that is).
As far as drinking socially again goes why don't you try stopping completely first? You may find that sobriety isn't as bad as you were expecting. If you want try to go back after a period of time I won't try to talk you out of it. It's your decision. I know that I won't ever be able to use sporadically again. If I had wanted to do that I wouldn't have gotten addicted in the first place.
As far as drinking socially again goes why don't you try stopping completely first? You may find that sobriety isn't as bad as you were expecting. If you want try to go back after a period of time I won't try to talk you out of it. It's your decision. I know that I won't ever be able to use sporadically again. If I had wanted to do that I wouldn't have gotten addicted in the first place.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 142
The idea of not being able to enjoy a cocktail on the beach or a glass of wine in Tuscany on vacation with a meal makes life sound miserable
That sounds miserable? Your post honestly outlines vomiting, shaking, hating yourself and a DUI. If that isn't misery, what is?
Please reconsider your goal!!
Wishing you well.
That sounds miserable? Your post honestly outlines vomiting, shaking, hating yourself and a DUI. If that isn't misery, what is?
Please reconsider your goal!!
Wishing you well.
Forum Leader
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 16,945
The vast majority cannot ever return to controlled drinking after drinking alcoholically, which you absolutely are in my opinion. It's a fantasy most of is have had at one point in our quest, but I have never seen it happen even once.
Keep in mind too that this is a sobriety forum, you won't find support for moderation as it's not possible for us. Sobriety is our only chance.
Keep in mind too that this is a sobriety forum, you won't find support for moderation as it's not possible for us. Sobriety is our only chance.
Canine Welfare Advocate
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 10,962
Originally Posted by St3f 
My goal isn't lifelong sobriety, it's to make my problem drinking go away and be able to enjoy drinking again, rather than be its slave.
But that's not your goal. So I wish you all the best in your endeavor.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,435
Hi and welcome st3f
I wish you well - genuinely.....
but I have to say once I reached the being ill/ drinking in the morning stage, shaking, sweating, chills, loss of cognitive function, and loss of appetite, the 'drink normally again' ship had not only left the dock, it had sailed over the horizon, circled the globe twice, been decommissioned and was being sold for scrap....
I spent a decade or more deluding myself this was not the case.
I'd hate to see you do the same,
D
I wish you well - genuinely.....
but I have to say once I reached the being ill/ drinking in the morning stage, shaking, sweating, chills, loss of cognitive function, and loss of appetite, the 'drink normally again' ship had not only left the dock, it had sailed over the horizon, circled the globe twice, been decommissioned and was being sold for scrap....
I spent a decade or more deluding myself this was not the case.
I'd hate to see you do the same,
D
Marchia in Aeternum
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 11,094
See your doctor. They can give you meds to ease your detox and help with the cravings later during withdrawal.
You will find your best solution and your best answers will come from quitting completely long enough to reset your mind and body.
You will find your best solution and your best answers will come from quitting completely long enough to reset your mind and body.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 31
Secularist (Please don't tell me to find god. I mean this with utmost respect to whichever religion may help you. That path is not for me and never will be.)
God is on a spiritual level and by one's own beliefs, not in a church.
I really will pray for you tonight and I am very self-centered. I don't think you can get it under control. If you can't, give it up. Really.
God is on a spiritual level and by one's own beliefs, not in a church.
I really will pray for you tonight and I am very self-centered. I don't think you can get it under control. If you can't, give it up. Really.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 5
I feel like if I've beaten hefty addictions to cocaine and (what is essentially) heroin, it's a matter of pride for me to at least try. I can buy either of the above as easily as I can a fifth.
Thank you all for the responses!
Thank you all for the responses!
Guest
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canada
Posts: 4,580
My off button is so unreliable I'd get a new one if I could. But I can't...so the only certainty I have is abstinence. Despite my best efforts...I cannot "control" my drinking, which becomes all the more evident when I do drink... because then I don't WANT to.
It is difficult to accept that I cannot have wine on that trip to Tuscany..but I can always eat tons of pasta and gonna on a quest for the best cappuccino.
I wish I could tell you that ya..it could be done..and here's how. Alas, I cannot. In all honesty, I don't even care bout that wine in Tuscany anymore. My whole life ain't going to be sacrificed for glass of wine in Tuscany or a Margarita in Malibu.
It is difficult to accept that I cannot have wine on that trip to Tuscany..but I can always eat tons of pasta and gonna on a quest for the best cappuccino.
I wish I could tell you that ya..it could be done..and here's how. Alas, I cannot. In all honesty, I don't even care bout that wine in Tuscany anymore. My whole life ain't going to be sacrificed for glass of wine in Tuscany or a Margarita in Malibu.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Upstate New York
Posts: 51,563
Welcome St3f - I'm glad you reached out for some advice. As Dee said, if things don't work out the way you're hoping - don't forget where we are.
It seems like you want to hold on to drinking at all costs, yet it doesn't sound as if it's fun anymore. You mention enjoying 'a drink' on vacation or at the beach - and indeed it is pleasant - if we can actually drink socially. It sounds like you're way past that stage, & doing 'maintenance' drinking. To reiterate what Scott said, a person who drinks alcoholically rarely can return to moderate drinking. If there had been a way, I would have found it. I drank for 30 yrs. I was in my 50's when I found SR and was drinking 'round the clock so I wouldn't shake. It was complete misery. I hope you'll consider kicking it out of your life.
It seems like you want to hold on to drinking at all costs, yet it doesn't sound as if it's fun anymore. You mention enjoying 'a drink' on vacation or at the beach - and indeed it is pleasant - if we can actually drink socially. It sounds like you're way past that stage, & doing 'maintenance' drinking. To reiterate what Scott said, a person who drinks alcoholically rarely can return to moderate drinking. If there had been a way, I would have found it. I drank for 30 yrs. I was in my 50's when I found SR and was drinking 'round the clock so I wouldn't shake. It was complete misery. I hope you'll consider kicking it out of your life.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Hollywood, FL
Posts: 207
On a scale you are 9 or 10 IMO. From what I've read you cannot enjoy a cocktail on the beach, because it will lead to 10 more cocktails. If you are trying to work out what risks you're facing, I would say health should be your biggest concern, because fast forward ten years you might be very sorry. I'm don't mean to be so harsh, but I wouldn't consider even thinking about controlled drinking in your case. Best of luck.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,435
I've removed some posts.
If you, for any reason, cannot take a poster at face value it's ok not to post and skip to the next thread.
Calling people trolls or jokes is against the ethos of this Newcomers Forum and against our rule 4
Apologies to the OP.
I want no further discussion of this kind, from anyone.
Dee
Moderator
SR
If you, for any reason, cannot take a poster at face value it's ok not to post and skip to the next thread.
Calling people trolls or jokes is against the ethos of this Newcomers Forum and against our rule 4
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No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
I want no further discussion of this kind, from anyone.
Dee
Moderator
SR
p***enger
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 19,039
Hi St3f,
I suggest you just try to quit for a few days. Then see if you can continue to be quit and what it's like for you. Although a medical detox would probably be advisable. But if you detox on your own -- you don't say if you live alone -- it would be a good idea to have someone around in case you have an emergency.
Commitment to a lifetime of sobriety is not a requirement for getting sober. I was at a similar stage as you, I think. I knew I'd gotten myself in very bad shape and didn't really think much about "never again" vs. someday vs. whatever -- I just knew I had to sober up for a while to get my head together and my body a little healed.
What shook me up was when I personally found that I couldn't quit without help. That surprised me. Like you, I'd beaten another addiction (speed) without help. Or maybe I hadn't -- maybe I'd just traded addictions.
Anyway, I think you should see a doctor because there's no good reason to deal with the misery of detox without help. Doctors have seen it all. I wish I'd gone to one first.
Keep posting here -- I'd like to know how it goes for you!
I suggest you just try to quit for a few days. Then see if you can continue to be quit and what it's like for you. Although a medical detox would probably be advisable. But if you detox on your own -- you don't say if you live alone -- it would be a good idea to have someone around in case you have an emergency.
Commitment to a lifetime of sobriety is not a requirement for getting sober. I was at a similar stage as you, I think. I knew I'd gotten myself in very bad shape and didn't really think much about "never again" vs. someday vs. whatever -- I just knew I had to sober up for a while to get my head together and my body a little healed.
What shook me up was when I personally found that I couldn't quit without help. That surprised me. Like you, I'd beaten another addiction (speed) without help. Or maybe I hadn't -- maybe I'd just traded addictions.
Anyway, I think you should see a doctor because there's no good reason to deal with the misery of detox without help. Doctors have seen it all. I wish I'd gone to one first.
Keep posting here -- I'd like to know how it goes for you!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Western NY
Posts: 1,209
St3f - I used to think the same thing about oxy being the same as heroin. After the first time shooting H I realized that I was dead wrong on that one. Sniffing oxys was a terrible addiction for me, but shooting H was just on a whole different level of being completely ******.
I have found that ability to control / kick habits to other drugs had little impact on my ability to kick my DOC. I was madly in love with my DOC. The others were easier to not use because they honestly didn't do it for me. I don't see the point in trying the other ones now. If it is good enough to do then it would be good enough to get addicted to.
From your usage it sounds like you are in love with the booze. I think that is a more important aspect than whether you were able to handle other substances or not.
I have found that ability to control / kick habits to other drugs had little impact on my ability to kick my DOC. I was madly in love with my DOC. The others were easier to not use because they honestly didn't do it for me. I don't see the point in trying the other ones now. If it is good enough to do then it would be good enough to get addicted to.
From your usage it sounds like you are in love with the booze. I think that is a more important aspect than whether you were able to handle other substances or not.
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