Difference btwn enabling & boundaries?
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Difference btwn enabling & boundaries?
Hi everyone,
I'm new to Al-Anon and this forum, having posted a few times but I mostly read a lot since I discovered my H was alcoholic a few weeks ago. I went to my first meeting on July 5th.
He's not the "typical" alcoholic -- whatever that is -- because he seems to be able to stop after a few drinks but that's usually because he just falls asleep. He goes to work everyday, waking himself up. Drinks on weekends and several nights a week. Sometimes he's crabby and mean, other times he's funny and sweet. No DUIs. No hitting me. It makes me crazy and makes me think that I'm the crazy one and that he's not really an alcoholic.
So as I said, I'm new. I've attended four Al-Anon meetings. I've read a lot on here. Found a recovery podcast and listen to it several days a week. Have the Courage to Change book and read it daily.
I've learned I need to put the focus on ME, changing me because I can't change him. I used to pick up his beer cans, empty liquor glasses left by sofa at night after I sent him to bed when he falls asleep on sofa. Now I go to bed before him so I can get the good sleep I need as I am dealing with adrenal fatigue. So no more sending him to bed and picking up after him.
I really think he has a bigger issue with anger because that surfaced first in our marriage years ago. I've had to learn to not discuss certain issues (world events, kids, sports, etc) because if I don't agree with him I get lots of anger and put downs....I've noticed over recent years that alcohol just makes that worse.
Anyway, I have a question about boundaries and enabling:
This past Sunday, we went to see a play with our 19 year old daughter. He got a beer at intermission. At dinner after the show, he got a mixed drink. On the way home, he stopped to get a daiquiri (a drive thru bar serving frozen drinks like a fast food place in Louisiana. They get away with it by giving you a straw in wrapper, not putting it in the drink!!!). As he was pulling in, I said, "Really do you need a daiquiri after already having two drinks?" He said, "I didn't have two drinks. Just a beer and one drink. But yes, I'm gonna get a daiquiri. it's the weekend." (Well that doesn't explain why he stops there after work during the week, but I digress...)
So I said, "Well then I need to drive." So he did stop and we switched drivers. (As we were getting into the car after dinner, I asked if he was alright to drive and he said yea, no problem)
So, this is the second time I've driven after he stops to get a daiquiri. I feel like this is a boundary: if he drinks, I'm going to drive.
But is it enabling him that I'm going to drive so that he can drink?
When he was getting in the back seat he said, "It's so rare for me to be driven in my own car." Surprisingly, he didn't say it in an ugly way....
I told him, "Well you don't always have to be the one to drive, you know?"
I thought this was a good boundary, but after an Al-Anon meeting yesterday during lunch with several members, one woman explained to me that I am obsessed with my AH's drinking. That I am the sick one. That I need to focus on me. She said if I'm depressed or mad all the time, no one (including AH) will want to be with me. She said she's changed and more in love with her husband now than ever before. (I can't even imagine that....)
So I understand some of that, but it felt like I was guilty one. I was trying to establish a healthy boundary for me and in particularly our daughter since she was with us.
Is this just a lesson that I need to learn? I know (and love) the 3 Cs: didn't cause it; can't control it; can't cure it. But is it sick to observe the drinking (and count number of drinks) when it directly impacts you and your child?
Thanks in advance for reading this long post and any words of wisdom y'all can offer.
I'm new to Al-Anon and this forum, having posted a few times but I mostly read a lot since I discovered my H was alcoholic a few weeks ago. I went to my first meeting on July 5th.
He's not the "typical" alcoholic -- whatever that is -- because he seems to be able to stop after a few drinks but that's usually because he just falls asleep. He goes to work everyday, waking himself up. Drinks on weekends and several nights a week. Sometimes he's crabby and mean, other times he's funny and sweet. No DUIs. No hitting me. It makes me crazy and makes me think that I'm the crazy one and that he's not really an alcoholic.
So as I said, I'm new. I've attended four Al-Anon meetings. I've read a lot on here. Found a recovery podcast and listen to it several days a week. Have the Courage to Change book and read it daily.
I've learned I need to put the focus on ME, changing me because I can't change him. I used to pick up his beer cans, empty liquor glasses left by sofa at night after I sent him to bed when he falls asleep on sofa. Now I go to bed before him so I can get the good sleep I need as I am dealing with adrenal fatigue. So no more sending him to bed and picking up after him.
I really think he has a bigger issue with anger because that surfaced first in our marriage years ago. I've had to learn to not discuss certain issues (world events, kids, sports, etc) because if I don't agree with him I get lots of anger and put downs....I've noticed over recent years that alcohol just makes that worse.
Anyway, I have a question about boundaries and enabling:
This past Sunday, we went to see a play with our 19 year old daughter. He got a beer at intermission. At dinner after the show, he got a mixed drink. On the way home, he stopped to get a daiquiri (a drive thru bar serving frozen drinks like a fast food place in Louisiana. They get away with it by giving you a straw in wrapper, not putting it in the drink!!!). As he was pulling in, I said, "Really do you need a daiquiri after already having two drinks?" He said, "I didn't have two drinks. Just a beer and one drink. But yes, I'm gonna get a daiquiri. it's the weekend." (Well that doesn't explain why he stops there after work during the week, but I digress...)
So I said, "Well then I need to drive." So he did stop and we switched drivers. (As we were getting into the car after dinner, I asked if he was alright to drive and he said yea, no problem)
So, this is the second time I've driven after he stops to get a daiquiri. I feel like this is a boundary: if he drinks, I'm going to drive.
But is it enabling him that I'm going to drive so that he can drink?
When he was getting in the back seat he said, "It's so rare for me to be driven in my own car." Surprisingly, he didn't say it in an ugly way....
I told him, "Well you don't always have to be the one to drive, you know?"
I thought this was a good boundary, but after an Al-Anon meeting yesterday during lunch with several members, one woman explained to me that I am obsessed with my AH's drinking. That I am the sick one. That I need to focus on me. She said if I'm depressed or mad all the time, no one (including AH) will want to be with me. She said she's changed and more in love with her husband now than ever before. (I can't even imagine that....)
So I understand some of that, but it felt like I was guilty one. I was trying to establish a healthy boundary for me and in particularly our daughter since she was with us.
Is this just a lesson that I need to learn? I know (and love) the 3 Cs: didn't cause it; can't control it; can't cure it. But is it sick to observe the drinking (and count number of drinks) when it directly impacts you and your child?
Thanks in advance for reading this long post and any words of wisdom y'all can offer.
Last edited by allinon; 07-22-2014 at 08:09 AM. Reason: explain daiquiri shops!
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Enabling is doing something for the addict that they are capable of doing themselves. What you did is not enabling, it is protecting yourself and your daughter (and yes, your husband) from possibly having a wreck or being stopped by the police..
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He is very clear that he is going to drink whether you insist on driving or not. It isn't enabling to enforce your own boundary about not being driven around by someone who has been drinking. But there isn't much point in trying to be the Drink Police by asking about how much and when and what he is going to do (i.e., "Really do you think you need a dacquiri after two drinks..."). You can just observe and act when the amount he has had is uncomfortable for you. Or let go of the observing altogether and just always be the one to drive. I don't think there is a problem with your boundary, but I can understand your discomfort with monitoring how much he drinks.
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I thought this was a good boundary, but after an Al-Anon meeting yesterday during lunch with several members, one woman explained to me that I am obsessed with my AH's drinking. That I am the sick one. That I need to focus on me. She said if I'm depressed or mad all the time, no one (including AH) will want to be with me. She said she's changed and more in love with her husband now than ever before. (I can't even imagine that....)
Being depressed or mad - who is she to say if someone will or will not want to be with you - but it hurts you the most to be mad and depressed. That was a really codie thing for her to say, "Stop being depressed or no (man) will want to be with you."
So I would say to you, in order to be happy for yourself it is good to figure out what is making you angry and depressed and then fix that. If you want to stay with him, that's going to require quite a bit of work. If you change your reaction to him, it may or may not have an affect on him.
Keep driving when he has had drinks. That was a good thing. Trust your best judgment. If you look deep inside you will find the answers.
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It is only enabling if it bothers you. For me that same me driving situation turned into me being the one driving ALL the time so he could drink. I began to resent that because sometimes I like to be driven around too. That is enabling because I allow it and do it even though it bother me and hate it. If it doesn't bother you then it is not enabling.
However, the part where you mention you are not allowed to bring up certain subjects for fear of "angering" him concerns me. It sounds like you have to walk on egg shells at home. That is not a healthy way to live. Shouldn't you be allowed to discuss any topic you choose at your own free will and expect to have an adult conversation with your partner? And to be "put down" as you call it is unacceptable and a form of domestic violence. No one should disrespect you for any reason especially your partner who professes to love and honor you. Alcohol or not, it sounds like there may be some deeper problems in your relationship. Alcohol does not "cause" people to become mean and offensive or abusive. That comes from within and comes with or without the alcohol. Although it can make it more prevalent by lowering his inhibitions but the behaviors are already there.
Great job joining Al-anon and getting some help for yourself! You will learn alot of great tools there. You would also be wise to learn as much as you can on the disease of alcoholism. There is a great book called "Under the influence" that describes each stage and how it affects the person. An alcoholic comes in many forms not just the falling down drunk, abusive homesless guy we all picture in our heads. My husband is an alcoholic that never said anything whatsoever negative to me, never hit me or called me names, kept a respectable health professional job and never missed a day of work and woke himself up everyday and yet he is still an alcoholic. In all appearances he seems like the perfect husband and father.
Best of luck figuring it all out. The ladies at Al-anon were correct in telling your o focus on yourself. You cannot and will not be able to change his behavior. That has to come from him but you can change yourself and how you react to his behavior. You are not alone. We have all been where you are.
However, the part where you mention you are not allowed to bring up certain subjects for fear of "angering" him concerns me. It sounds like you have to walk on egg shells at home. That is not a healthy way to live. Shouldn't you be allowed to discuss any topic you choose at your own free will and expect to have an adult conversation with your partner? And to be "put down" as you call it is unacceptable and a form of domestic violence. No one should disrespect you for any reason especially your partner who professes to love and honor you. Alcohol or not, it sounds like there may be some deeper problems in your relationship. Alcohol does not "cause" people to become mean and offensive or abusive. That comes from within and comes with or without the alcohol. Although it can make it more prevalent by lowering his inhibitions but the behaviors are already there.
Great job joining Al-anon and getting some help for yourself! You will learn alot of great tools there. You would also be wise to learn as much as you can on the disease of alcoholism. There is a great book called "Under the influence" that describes each stage and how it affects the person. An alcoholic comes in many forms not just the falling down drunk, abusive homesless guy we all picture in our heads. My husband is an alcoholic that never said anything whatsoever negative to me, never hit me or called me names, kept a respectable health professional job and never missed a day of work and woke himself up everyday and yet he is still an alcoholic. In all appearances he seems like the perfect husband and father.
Best of luck figuring it all out. The ladies at Al-anon were correct in telling your o focus on yourself. You cannot and will not be able to change his behavior. That has to come from him but you can change yourself and how you react to his behavior. You are not alone. We have all been where you are.
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I thought this was a good boundary, but after an Al-Anon meeting yesterday during lunch with several members, one woman explained to me that I am obsessed with my AH's drinking. That I am the sick one. That I need to focus on me. She said if I'm depressed or mad all the time, no one (including AH) will want to be with me. She said she's changed and more in love with her husband now than ever before. (I can't even imagine that....)
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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tell that lady at al-anon to go ___. Your AH sounds exactly like mine. He never drank a lot, or even everyday. But when he did he was so mean to me, in little ways, and told me, and partially convinced me, that I was crazy. We had the same driving issue.
I am still here, many years later, dealing with the same crap, but about to leave, finally. Don't let yourself live like this for long. I have wasted the last 5 years of my life being sad and withdrawn, wish I could reclaim it.
I am still here, many years later, dealing with the same crap, but about to leave, finally. Don't let yourself live like this for long. I have wasted the last 5 years of my life being sad and withdrawn, wish I could reclaim it.
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Originally Posted by unsureoffuture 
It is only enabling if it bothers you. For me that same me driving situation turned into me being the one driving ALL the time so he could drink. I began to resent that because sometimes I like to be driven around too. That is enabling because I allow it and do it even though it bother me and hate it. If it doesn't bother you then it is not enabling.
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Thank you everyone for your responses.
I felt that my driving was for safety reasons for my daughter and myself, and not enabling....but posed the question after I began doubting myself after the comments from the Al-Anon lady!
I can see easily see that I will likely begin driving anytime we go anywhere and thus giving my AH "license to drink". And I recognize that I'll likely resent it if it becomes an automatic thing. But for the time being at least, I'm not making plans to leave so that is a boundary I will keep for safety reasons whenever I or my kids are in the car. I cannot control my AH's driving when I'm not with him... if he chooses to drink and drive on his own, well he will have to face any consequences. And I recognize that again at least for the time being I am choosing this along with all the other things I do as the spouse of an AH, i.e. everything in family/household dynamic except his job and cutting grass! (bills, kids, dogs, family connections, home maintenance, groceries, cars, etc.)
Good point though about not being the "Drink Police" talking about stating how many he's had. In future I'll just say, I want to drive or something to that effect. I need to remember just to observe and act, not comment!!
Yes I do think his anger tends to be verbal abuse. Fortunately, it's not a daily or weekly occurrence. Maybe once a month, or every six weeks he'll lash out. Again, I know this isn't ideal and my home/marriage isn't the "soft safe welcome place" that a normal healthy marriage should be. I know I should be able to have adult convos but I do edit myself to maintain peace.
As far as that lady at Al-Anon, I do think she still has codie tendencies because at lunch she was telling another lady to hurry her lunch so this lady could make a doctor's appointment across town! "You don't want to be late for your appointment..." So yea, thanks for that observation.
I know I can't change him and in staying where I am, I'll continue to get what I got and this will likely progressively get worse. Thankfully though going to Al-Anon and reading this forum is letting me see that I am not a victim. I've begun to focus on me for the first time in a long while. I'm stepping back from doing things for him, except when it involves my own or my kids' personal safety. I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving in the future, but I know I have to get stronger in my own recovery and in my own health before I can do so. Thus for the time being, I'm staying but with a renewed focus on me.
I believe my next steps in Al-Anon is to get a sponsor and actually "work the steps" to help me continue to get stronger.
I know I need to just focus on "One Day at a Time" and that's what I'm trying to do... but I also wonder when/if I should address him on my thoughts that he has a drinking problem and I'm going to Al-Anon meetings. I posed this question in the thread about the "High Functioning Alcoholic" article.
Thanks again everyone and I am so thankful for this forum! Bless you all!!
I felt that my driving was for safety reasons for my daughter and myself, and not enabling....but posed the question after I began doubting myself after the comments from the Al-Anon lady!
I can see easily see that I will likely begin driving anytime we go anywhere and thus giving my AH "license to drink". And I recognize that I'll likely resent it if it becomes an automatic thing. But for the time being at least, I'm not making plans to leave so that is a boundary I will keep for safety reasons whenever I or my kids are in the car. I cannot control my AH's driving when I'm not with him... if he chooses to drink and drive on his own, well he will have to face any consequences. And I recognize that again at least for the time being I am choosing this along with all the other things I do as the spouse of an AH, i.e. everything in family/household dynamic except his job and cutting grass! (bills, kids, dogs, family connections, home maintenance, groceries, cars, etc.)
Good point though about not being the "Drink Police" talking about stating how many he's had. In future I'll just say, I want to drive or something to that effect. I need to remember just to observe and act, not comment!!
Yes I do think his anger tends to be verbal abuse. Fortunately, it's not a daily or weekly occurrence. Maybe once a month, or every six weeks he'll lash out. Again, I know this isn't ideal and my home/marriage isn't the "soft safe welcome place" that a normal healthy marriage should be. I know I should be able to have adult convos but I do edit myself to maintain peace.
As far as that lady at Al-Anon, I do think she still has codie tendencies because at lunch she was telling another lady to hurry her lunch so this lady could make a doctor's appointment across town! "You don't want to be late for your appointment..." So yea, thanks for that observation.
I know I can't change him and in staying where I am, I'll continue to get what I got and this will likely progressively get worse. Thankfully though going to Al-Anon and reading this forum is letting me see that I am not a victim. I've begun to focus on me for the first time in a long while. I'm stepping back from doing things for him, except when it involves my own or my kids' personal safety. I'm not opposed to the idea of leaving in the future, but I know I have to get stronger in my own recovery and in my own health before I can do so. Thus for the time being, I'm staying but with a renewed focus on me.
I believe my next steps in Al-Anon is to get a sponsor and actually "work the steps" to help me continue to get stronger.
I know I need to just focus on "One Day at a Time" and that's what I'm trying to do... but I also wonder when/if I should address him on my thoughts that he has a drinking problem and I'm going to Al-Anon meetings. I posed this question in the thread about the "High Functioning Alcoholic" article.
Thanks again everyone and I am so thankful for this forum! Bless you all!!
Last edited by allinon; 07-23-2014 at 06:46 AM. Reason: explain reason for question
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Maybe print the article and let him read it on his own? That would be my thought. Sometimes it's easier to let them read something than to engage in conversation about it. If he is in denial he has a problem of course he will not think it pertains to him at all.
Keep up the good work in working on you. Continue to drive if he is drinking. My sister is police, and we were just talking about how it amazes her that so many men get pulled over and are issued a DUI with a stone cold sober woman in the car with them. Just because of the tradition of the man driving. I drove almost exclusively w/my XAH. It started just when he would drink, but then I just drove out of habit after a while. It did not really bother me though. His drinking did bother me however, so I have left him, and am still driving, just not him anymore LOL.
Good Luck to you.
Keep up the good work in working on you. Continue to drive if he is drinking. My sister is police, and we were just talking about how it amazes her that so many men get pulled over and are issued a DUI with a stone cold sober woman in the car with them. Just because of the tradition of the man driving. I drove almost exclusively w/my XAH. It started just when he would drink, but then I just drove out of habit after a while. It did not really bother me though. His drinking did bother me however, so I have left him, and am still driving, just not him anymore LOL.
Good Luck to you.
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Just a thought but, if your boundary turns into you doing it all of the time so he can drink the next step might be the kids and you driving one car and him having to drive his own car. That puts the responsibility back on him and any consequences fall back mostly on him.
Have a blessed day!!!
Have a blessed day!!!
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[QUOTE=allinon;4794833
But is it enabling him that I'm going to drive so that he can drink?[/QUOTE]
No since whether or not you drove he was going to drink anyway.
DO I understand that the Al Anon woman was suggesting you should simply remain as passenger in the car with someone drinking behind the wheel? That's so stupid its laughable.
Until you reach the point that you don't want to be around him drinking at all I would always drive.
But is it enabling him that I'm going to drive so that he can drink?[/QUOTE]
No since whether or not you drove he was going to drink anyway.
DO I understand that the Al Anon woman was suggesting you should simply remain as passenger in the car with someone drinking behind the wheel? That's so stupid its laughable.
Until you reach the point that you don't want to be around him drinking at all I would always drive.
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I know what you're saying.. I've wondered the same thing in the sense that if you agree that you will drive when he's drinking, it's almost like giving him an "out"--"hey, I can drink because she's always going to drive."
I think the person who said it's only enabling if it bothers you is right on. I got to the point where I resented being the designated driver--I felt used. But I'd never feel so used as to let him drive me home.
Perhaps at that point, a boundary is required--not sure what boundary, other than "I'm not going with you if I'm going to be the one to drive home after you've been drinking." I've used that one, because when he's been drinking I feel like a hostage. More often than not, he gets really combative and what am I supposed to do? I'm a prisoner in my car. I can't jump out.
I think the person who said it's only enabling if it bothers you is right on. I got to the point where I resented being the designated driver--I felt used. But I'd never feel so used as to let him drive me home.
Perhaps at that point, a boundary is required--not sure what boundary, other than "I'm not going with you if I'm going to be the one to drive home after you've been drinking." I've used that one, because when he's been drinking I feel like a hostage. More often than not, he gets really combative and what am I supposed to do? I'm a prisoner in my car. I can't jump out.
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It's appropriate to put your own safety first. Period.
In Alanon, there's a slogan 'Let it begin with me'. If anyone in a meeting started dictating to me like that, I'd gently tell them that I'm taking care of my own inventory, thank you.
People in 12-Step programs will have varying degrees of recovery behind them, and sometimes it's as necessary to set boundaries with other members as it is with anyone else.
In Alanon, there's a slogan 'Let it begin with me'. If anyone in a meeting started dictating to me like that, I'd gently tell them that I'm taking care of my own inventory, thank you.
People in 12-Step programs will have varying degrees of recovery behind them, and sometimes it's as necessary to set boundaries with other members as it is with anyone else.
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