Their lives are theirs to destroy.
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Their lives are theirs to destroy.
I found this little blog entry this evening and thought I would share it here. The concept that someone else's life is their own to destroy is profound to me in actually understanding what that means.
How to Know if You’re a Controlling Person
If you’d have told me a month ago I had codependent tendencies, I’d never have believed you.
I don’t like it when people try to control me (especially indirectly through manipulation) and I’d have sworn I don’t do a thing to try to control others. But it turns out that isn’t true. For all I know, I might even be manipulating you right now. Raise your hand if you think I’m trying to control you. (I see that hand. Now put it down. Now scratch your nose.)
I realized I was a controlling person not long ago when a therapist caught me in the act. I was wondering out loud why a friend was doing what she was doing and the thearpist questioned why I was trying to get inside somebody else’s head.
“What does it matter why people do what they do? Are you trying to predict behavior to gain a sense of security?”
It was a terrific observation. Trying to figure out why people are doing what they are doing is a preface to trying to control or influence them indirectly. If I really wanted to know why they were doing what they were doing, I could just ask. But I didn’t want to ask because it was none of my business. They had a right to think and do as they wished.
Turns out controlling tendencies can hide anywhere.
And most of the time (if not all the time) we don’t know we’re doing it.
The therapist went on to explain how relationships should work. She put three large couch pillows on the floor and stood on one of the outside cushions. She then had me stand on the other outside cushion so there was an empty cushion between us.
“This is my pillow” she said, “and that is yours. This is my life and that is yours. The pillow in the middle represents our relationship. So, my responsibility is all about the pillow I’m standing on and yours is about yours. Together, we are responsible for the relationship. But at no point should I be stepping on your pillow.”
What she meant by that was this:
I can’t change anybody. I can’t force them or guilt them or shame them into doing anything. All I can do is stay on my pillow and ask myself whether or not I like the relationship. If I don’t, I can tell the other person what I want in a relationship and see if they want the same thing. If not, I move on, and so do they.
In marriage, of course, it’s much harder. You can’t just walk away. But in business relationships and friendships, and even in dating, the model works quite well.
I found the metaphor freeing, actually. No more wishing people would change or explaining “if they only did it this way we would be better friends.” Instead, I just say “this relationship doesn’t work” and there’s nothing I can do about it. If I’ve explained what I want in a relationship but the other person isn’t on board, no harm no foul.
It’s difficult in some relationships, I know, because sometimes you have to watch people destroy their lives, but that’s just the point. Their lives are theirs to destroy.
I found the principle to be true in business, too.
When somebody tries to sell a little too hard, they are on my pillow so I back off or set better boundaries. It’s also a great way to find and enter into relationships with clients. If they want what you’re selling, great, and if not, that’s also great. Business relationships work better when they’re natural and not forced and everybody stays on their pillow.
And in my spiritual life it’s the same. If somebody is giving me a guilt trip, they’re on my pillow. I believe much of evangelicalism is influenced by leaders who don’t realize they are standing all over their congregation’s pillows. Some leaders feel incredibly insecure unless they are managing the lives of everybody around them. Make no mistake, this isn’t strength, it’s incredible weakness. Just tell the truth, explain the consequences, and let people make their own decisions.
Here are a few ways to know whether you might be a controlling person:
You imagine a life in which somebody else was different, and indirectly try to affect their change.
You get angry when things aren’t going your way and you let people know it.
You can only be surrounded by people who are submissive to you.
You give the silent treatment to people you are angry with.
You are often tempted to show somebody the errors they don’t see in themselves.
What ways do you tend to step on other people’s pillows? Do you shame people (I’m guilty of that) or give them the silent treatment? How do you try to influence others without being direct or when their lives are none of your business?
How to Know if You’re a Controlling Person
If you’d have told me a month ago I had codependent tendencies, I’d never have believed you.
I don’t like it when people try to control me (especially indirectly through manipulation) and I’d have sworn I don’t do a thing to try to control others. But it turns out that isn’t true. For all I know, I might even be manipulating you right now. Raise your hand if you think I’m trying to control you. (I see that hand. Now put it down. Now scratch your nose.)
I realized I was a controlling person not long ago when a therapist caught me in the act. I was wondering out loud why a friend was doing what she was doing and the thearpist questioned why I was trying to get inside somebody else’s head.
“What does it matter why people do what they do? Are you trying to predict behavior to gain a sense of security?”
It was a terrific observation. Trying to figure out why people are doing what they are doing is a preface to trying to control or influence them indirectly. If I really wanted to know why they were doing what they were doing, I could just ask. But I didn’t want to ask because it was none of my business. They had a right to think and do as they wished.
Turns out controlling tendencies can hide anywhere.
And most of the time (if not all the time) we don’t know we’re doing it.
The therapist went on to explain how relationships should work. She put three large couch pillows on the floor and stood on one of the outside cushions. She then had me stand on the other outside cushion so there was an empty cushion between us.
“This is my pillow” she said, “and that is yours. This is my life and that is yours. The pillow in the middle represents our relationship. So, my responsibility is all about the pillow I’m standing on and yours is about yours. Together, we are responsible for the relationship. But at no point should I be stepping on your pillow.”
What she meant by that was this:
I can’t change anybody. I can’t force them or guilt them or shame them into doing anything. All I can do is stay on my pillow and ask myself whether or not I like the relationship. If I don’t, I can tell the other person what I want in a relationship and see if they want the same thing. If not, I move on, and so do they.
In marriage, of course, it’s much harder. You can’t just walk away. But in business relationships and friendships, and even in dating, the model works quite well.
I found the metaphor freeing, actually. No more wishing people would change or explaining “if they only did it this way we would be better friends.” Instead, I just say “this relationship doesn’t work” and there’s nothing I can do about it. If I’ve explained what I want in a relationship but the other person isn’t on board, no harm no foul.
It’s difficult in some relationships, I know, because sometimes you have to watch people destroy their lives, but that’s just the point. Their lives are theirs to destroy.
I found the principle to be true in business, too.
When somebody tries to sell a little too hard, they are on my pillow so I back off or set better boundaries. It’s also a great way to find and enter into relationships with clients. If they want what you’re selling, great, and if not, that’s also great. Business relationships work better when they’re natural and not forced and everybody stays on their pillow.
And in my spiritual life it’s the same. If somebody is giving me a guilt trip, they’re on my pillow. I believe much of evangelicalism is influenced by leaders who don’t realize they are standing all over their congregation’s pillows. Some leaders feel incredibly insecure unless they are managing the lives of everybody around them. Make no mistake, this isn’t strength, it’s incredible weakness. Just tell the truth, explain the consequences, and let people make their own decisions.
Here are a few ways to know whether you might be a controlling person:
You imagine a life in which somebody else was different, and indirectly try to affect their change.
You get angry when things aren’t going your way and you let people know it.
You can only be surrounded by people who are submissive to you.
You give the silent treatment to people you are angry with.
You are often tempted to show somebody the errors they don’t see in themselves.
What ways do you tend to step on other people’s pillows? Do you shame people (I’m guilty of that) or give them the silent treatment? How do you try to influence others without being direct or when their lives are none of your business?
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I can’t change anybody. I can’t force them or guilt them or shame them into doing anything. All I can do is stay on my pillow and ask myself whether or not I like the relationship. If I don’t, I can tell the other person what I want in a relationship and see if they want the same thing. If not, I move on, and so do they.
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I'm actually really focused on this part though:
I have no freaking clue why it matters so much to me. That part is mine and I'm completely at a loss as to why *I* do the things that I do. Funny, huh? I know why my husband drinks most of the time but I can't figure myself out. I guess that's where the real work comes into play.
“What does it matter why people do what they do? Are you trying to predict behavior to gain a sense of security?”
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Originally Posted by Stung 
Funny, huh? I know why my husband drinks most of the time but I can't figure myself out. I guess that's where the real work comes into play.
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I don’t like it when people try to control me (especially indirectly through manipulation) and I’d have sworn I don’t do a thing to try to control others. But it turns out that isn’t true. For all I know, I might even be manipulating you right now. Raise your hand if you think I’m trying to control you. (I see that hand. Now put it down. Now scratch your nose.)
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by Stung
I'm actually really focused on this part though:
I have no freaking clue why it matters so much to me. That part is mine and I'm completely at a loss as to why *I* do the things that I do. Funny, huh? I know why my husband drinks most of the time but I can't figure myself out. I guess that's where the real work comes into play.
I have no freaking clue why it matters so much to me. That part is mine and I'm completely at a loss as to why *I* do the things that I do. Funny, huh? I know why my husband drinks most of the time but I can't figure myself out. I guess that's where the real work comes into play.
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Join Date: Nov 2013
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Like purple wilder the part about getting into others heads really struck home for me.
Gosh half my time at work is spent doing that - I have to understand others to do my job well. Chicken or egg? Did I choose a profession that allows me to indulge my need for control. Has my profession made me 'worse'?
I have always thought getting into another's head is empathy....but maybe my motivation isn't that pure. Empathy is walking in another's shoes.....
That's given me a load of food for thought. Thanks stung.
Gosh half my time at work is spent doing that - I have to understand others to do my job well. Chicken or egg? Did I choose a profession that allows me to indulge my need for control. Has my profession made me 'worse'?
I have always thought getting into another's head is empathy....but maybe my motivation isn't that pure. Empathy is walking in another's shoes.....
That's given me a load of food for thought. Thanks stung.
Loving a more peaceful life
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: England
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Originally Posted by jarp
Like purple wilder the part about getting into others heads really struck home for me.
Gosh half my time at work is spent doing that - I have to understand others to do my job well. Chicken or egg? Did I choose a profession that allows me to indulge my need for control. Has my profession made me 'worse'?
I have always thought getting into another's head is empathy....but maybe my motivation isn't that pure. Empathy is walking in another's shoes.....
That's given me a load of food for thought. Thanks stung.
Gosh half my time at work is spent doing that - I have to understand others to do my job well. Chicken or egg? Did I choose a profession that allows me to indulge my need for control. Has my profession made me 'worse'?
I have always thought getting into another's head is empathy....but maybe my motivation isn't that pure. Empathy is walking in another's shoes.....
That's given me a load of food for thought. Thanks stung.
That way of thinking seems ridiculous now. I know where it originally came from and thank heavens for counselling.
It is a tough line to walk in my type of work. The pillow analogy is brilliant.
I do think that that my type of work is high risk for encouraging and/or enabling codependent traits. I'm working on changing my career.
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I took a therapy training not too long ago (I am not a therapist, I am a healthcare worker).
I have used some of the many skills I was taught (it was a two year training).
The BEST skill for myself though was a mantra that they reccomend to ground you prior to seeing someone "Nothing to do, Nothing to fix."
It in essence is allowing the session to unfold as it is supposed to, and to give space to the other person in the session to do the same.
It has helped me CREATE freedom for myself though....because I don't have to control what is going on.
It has made a huge difference in my approach, and my interactions with my clients. I have so much more job satisfaction because I am not working so hard.
I have used some of the many skills I was taught (it was a two year training).
The BEST skill for myself though was a mantra that they reccomend to ground you prior to seeing someone "Nothing to do, Nothing to fix."
It in essence is allowing the session to unfold as it is supposed to, and to give space to the other person in the session to do the same.
It has helped me CREATE freedom for myself though....because I don't have to control what is going on.
It has made a huge difference in my approach, and my interactions with my clients. I have so much more job satisfaction because I am not working so hard.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
The BEST skill for myself though was a mantra that they reccomend to ground you prior to seeing someone "Nothing to do, Nothing to fix."
If I repeat this all day long, maybe it will wear a groove in my brain...
The predicting behavior in order to gain a sense of security was me to a T. I'm getting better but still fall into that same hole at times. At least I climb out faster than I used to.
Great thread, great thoughts! Thanks to all.
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it made very good reading in deed however you can have all this knowledge in the world but there is one thing missing from it
its that strong force called emotion, and our strong urge or iron will to make sure we have it our way
i had to come to see these emotions and see how i used them in my own life to get my own way
i was amazed looking back at how i had always done it right from being a kid these strong emotions drove me to find ways to get what i wanted
jealousy would be one such emotion that is a huge powerful force but i had to understand it and see how i let it into my life and i had to try to see that its not right
its takes a lot of hard effort for someone who has a strong urge to be jealous to suddenly let it go and smile when there head is spinning out of control and they want to stop it as fear is kicking in
for me it would lead me right on for a drink and as i am an alcholic one drink would start my craving off for more and the more i drank the less i had inside of me to hold myself back until bang off i go like a bottle of pop and the jealousy flys out of contronl
you bet the next day i am sorry and full of guilt and shame and remorse
if only i didnt drink i wouldnt of behaved like that ? some of it is true but i still would of felt like behaving like i did simply because of that strong emotion
so for me my life has been one of learning how to change and how to keep these emotions at bay a day at a time or an event at a time and over many years its slowly started to work i dont react like i once did, i can see most of the time if i am trying to control people
i certainly dont control people with my anger anymore but there are other ways of getting my own way without anger lol
but i have to first see them myself until i do or it gets shown to me or pointed out to me i am just blind to it
that was a very good read and i agree with it all apart from the emotion being the huge driving force
its that strong force called emotion, and our strong urge or iron will to make sure we have it our way
i had to come to see these emotions and see how i used them in my own life to get my own way
i was amazed looking back at how i had always done it right from being a kid these strong emotions drove me to find ways to get what i wanted
jealousy would be one such emotion that is a huge powerful force but i had to understand it and see how i let it into my life and i had to try to see that its not right
its takes a lot of hard effort for someone who has a strong urge to be jealous to suddenly let it go and smile when there head is spinning out of control and they want to stop it as fear is kicking in
for me it would lead me right on for a drink and as i am an alcholic one drink would start my craving off for more and the more i drank the less i had inside of me to hold myself back until bang off i go like a bottle of pop and the jealousy flys out of contronl
you bet the next day i am sorry and full of guilt and shame and remorse
if only i didnt drink i wouldnt of behaved like that ? some of it is true but i still would of felt like behaving like i did simply because of that strong emotion
so for me my life has been one of learning how to change and how to keep these emotions at bay a day at a time or an event at a time and over many years its slowly started to work i dont react like i once did, i can see most of the time if i am trying to control people
i certainly dont control people with my anger anymore but there are other ways of getting my own way without anger lol
but i have to first see them myself until i do or it gets shown to me or pointed out to me i am just blind to it
that was a very good read and i agree with it all apart from the emotion being the huge driving force
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I love this share. Thanks for posting this article.
This is one of the biggest lessons that I learned on this journey so far.
I think living in other people's heads does a couple of things: 1) It keeps me from focusing on myself and my own problems. 2) It helped me to continue excusing unacceptable behavior from others in the name of "understanding." 3) It made me insufferable to be around, because I was constantly psychoanalyzing people who pissed me off. 4) My excusing other people's unacceptable behavior kept me stuck in unacceptable circumstances -- job, family, friendship, marital, etc., surrounded by drama, arguments, power struggles, and disappointment.
To be perfectly honest, I think the biggest changes came over me when I went to counseling and stopped talking for fifty minutes straight about the same **** over and over again. One day I submitted to the therapist's meditation exercises THAT I HATED and I started feeling things: waves of grief, regret, deep sadness, longing for compassion from my mother and XAH, shame, guilt, and finally resolve. I had to feel all this stuff -- in my mind and in my body, literally in my tissues and lungs and heart -- and let it happen without trying to stop it, control it, or stuff it down. Basically, I grieved. I let my heart break, finally, in the safety of the therapist's office, and felt all the ******, terrible feelings that go along with it.
Then the plates started moving under my feet. My circumstances were exactly the same, but as I submitted to the process, my POV kept shifting.
Today when somebody steps on my foot, I really don't care what thinking was behind it or if they had good, bad or indifferent intentions. If you step on my foot, it hurts. If you keep stepping on my foot, I'm going to stop dancing with you.
I know why my husband drinks most of the time but I can't figure myself out. I guess that's where the real work comes into play.
I think living in other people's heads does a couple of things: 1) It keeps me from focusing on myself and my own problems. 2) It helped me to continue excusing unacceptable behavior from others in the name of "understanding." 3) It made me insufferable to be around, because I was constantly psychoanalyzing people who pissed me off. 4) My excusing other people's unacceptable behavior kept me stuck in unacceptable circumstances -- job, family, friendship, marital, etc., surrounded by drama, arguments, power struggles, and disappointment.
To be perfectly honest, I think the biggest changes came over me when I went to counseling and stopped talking for fifty minutes straight about the same **** over and over again. One day I submitted to the therapist's meditation exercises THAT I HATED and I started feeling things: waves of grief, regret, deep sadness, longing for compassion from my mother and XAH, shame, guilt, and finally resolve. I had to feel all this stuff -- in my mind and in my body, literally in my tissues and lungs and heart -- and let it happen without trying to stop it, control it, or stuff it down. Basically, I grieved. I let my heart break, finally, in the safety of the therapist's office, and felt all the ******, terrible feelings that go along with it.
Then the plates started moving under my feet. My circumstances were exactly the same, but as I submitted to the process, my POV kept shifting.
Today when somebody steps on my foot, I really don't care what thinking was behind it or if they had good, bad or indifferent intentions. If you step on my foot, it hurts. If you keep stepping on my foot, I'm going to stop dancing with you.
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See, I've always been curious about what motivates people to do what they do. The reason? I've always felt like humans don't behave the way they do for no reason. Even the most insane have a reason for doing what they're doing. If you can figure out why they're doing what they're doing, you have a better chance at understanding their behavior.
But I think insecurity is part of it. If I can predict people's behaviors, I don't have to be surprised or disappointed.
These days, maybe because I'm an old fart and maybe because I've spent some time in Al-Anon, I don't really try to figure out why people do what they do. I focus on what they do and determine whether I find their actions acceptable to me or not. If their actions are not acceptable, it doesn't really matter if they do what they do because they had a bad childhood or hit their head when they were 2.
But I think insecurity is part of it. If I can predict people's behaviors, I don't have to be surprised or disappointed.
These days, maybe because I'm an old fart and maybe because I've spent some time in Al-Anon, I don't really try to figure out why people do what they do. I focus on what they do and determine whether I find their actions acceptable to me or not. If their actions are not acceptable, it doesn't really matter if they do what they do because they had a bad childhood or hit their head when they were 2.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
The BEST skill for myself though was a mantra that they reccomend to ground you prior to seeing someone "Nothing to do, Nothing to fix."
It in essence is allowing the session to unfold as it is supposed to, and to give space to the other person in the session to do the same.
It in essence is allowing the session to unfold as it is supposed to, and to give space to the other person in the session to do the same.
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Location: Florida
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Originally Posted by Florence
One day I submitted to the therapist's meditation exercises THAT I HATED and I started feeling things: waves of grief, regret, deep sadness, longing for compassion from my mother and XAH, shame, guilt, and finally resolve. I had to feel all this stuff -- in my mind and in my body, literally in my tissues and lungs and heart -- and let it happen without trying to stop it, control it, or stuff it down. Basically, I grieved. I let my heart break, finally, in the safety of the therapist's office, and felt all the ******, terrible feelings that go along with it.
Then the plates started moving under my feet. My circumstances were exactly the same, but as I submitted to the process, my POV kept shifting.
Today when somebody steps on my foot, I really don't care what thinking was behind it or if they had good, bad or indifferent intentions. If you step on my foot, it hurts. If you keep stepping on my foot, I'm going to stop dancing with you.
Then the plates started moving under my feet. My circumstances were exactly the same, but as I submitted to the process, my POV kept shifting.
Today when somebody steps on my foot, I really don't care what thinking was behind it or if they had good, bad or indifferent intentions. If you step on my foot, it hurts. If you keep stepping on my foot, I'm going to stop dancing with you.
The pillows reference reminds me of the hula hoops, which I always found helpful.
You know, I have enough distance now to see that part of what made that last 6 months of RAH's active drinking phase so awful was (of course) because we'd been separated for a while & only just living together again. I had no clue about his real drinking habits & he underestimated how "in control" he was. His behavior was erratic, scary, full of severe mood swings & randomness like just disappearing for hours & cutting off all communication. It was EXHAUSTING & spending more & more time trying to Codie-manage him (& then ultimately my OWN recovery a few months down the road) was leaving way less time & energy to do the same with/for my mom & sister & all those around me who were used to me Taking Charge all the time.
I was dropping balls like mad & one day I was muttering to myself (ok, b$tching under my breath) & I heard myself say, "I don't even WANT to be IN CHARGE of this!!" And it stopped me dead in my tracks.
I had been reading a lot here at SR & like Florence said, my POV had been going through these shifts & it was suddenly very clear that ~for me at least~ a lot of the things I was "in control" of, I had no real interest in controlling. It had defaulted to me as the strong/organized/ "together"; sister/ child/friend/ wife, etc. depending on the relationship. When I examined what I really WANTED to be in charge of, my list was simple & manageable & didn't extend much beyond young DD's needs & myself. Obviously stuff creeps in that none of us want to have to handle (Bills, etc.) but it's much more manageable once I started handing other people's responsibilities back to them.
I know this has a lot to do with my FOO dynamic. My AF was a strong & in charge personality, but my mom & sister are both very passive. My mom also shared just last year about horrendous trauma from her early childhood that, now that I am aware of, was a big help in understanding why this dynamic developed between us from so early on. (there are other factors of course)
Some of the first boundaries I was able to clearly identify related to these relationships & after a lifetime of doing this dance both my mom & my sister initially pushed back & made it really difficult, but I really had my hands full & for the 1st time in my life I needed THEM to be strong FOR ME & it seemed like no one was getting it.
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I know this has a lot to do with my FOO dynamic. My AF was a strong & in charge personality, but my mom & sister are both very passive. My mom also shared just last year about horrendous trauma from her early childhood that, now that I am aware of, was a big help in understanding why this dynamic developed between us from so early on. (there are other factors of course)
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