He's an addict, He's an addict, so what does that mean???

Old 07-16-2014, 01:22 PM
  # 1 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 224
He's an addict, He's an addict, so what does that mean???

Thanks to HealingWillCome, I was able to read a posting about the workings of the addict mind ... I am struggling to wrap my brain around the emotional removal...no wait, the emotional and verbal abuse that has come from a once-upon-a-time gentle, kind and loving man.

This idea that his addiction is driving him and controls his choices and treatment of me and his family is still so perplexing... he looks like the same guy! His friends all say he is fine...oh wait, they are saying that to me between drinks...

So, who can elaborate on the general alcoholic behavior and addict choices? One minute he loves me with all of his alcohol-soaked heart but when I ask him to moderate for the sake of our relationship...all the sudden he has to reconsider his feelings and...well...he's pretty sure that he was mistaken...No! He is absolutely positive that this relationship is not going to work...

What about our commitment ceremony next Spring? What about moving in together next Fall?

Oh...those things sounded really nice until I turned into a "mean" person...
Timeiskey is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:35 PM
  # 2 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 214
No alcoholic will moderate or quit out of love for someone else, is my understanding. And thank goodness, b/c it would be easy to choose to relapse--'oh, so-and-so really isn't worth all the trouble. So now I can drink!'
It has to come from love of self, the desire for a better life, the desire not to die. AND the conscious recognition that drinking is a real problem. That's not in your hands.

I looked at my situation like this: the A in my life was married to alcohol. He had a family with alcohol, a life, friends.
I was his mistress. I kept waiting for him to leave his 'wife'--and to him, promising that he'd divorce the booze, soon, someday, when the time was right, was just (empty) words that let him keep all of it. My mistake was putting my life on hold, waiting to start it until he got better. He used me, and I let him.

I suggest Al-Anon as a great way to learn about alcoholism and addiction, and the limits of your own power to help someone you love. Good luck!
fairlyuncertain is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:39 PM
  # 3 (permalink)  
Member
 
firebolt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3,699
You'll find more information than you ever wanted to know here about the alcoholic mind...and the codependent mind.

I'm sorry that events have led you here. Maybe you can put the ceremony and moving in on hold? You know that he needs to get better, and I know it sounds crazy, but maybe you (like all of us) do too. We deserve reciprocal relationships. Hugs to you!
firebolt is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:46 PM
  # 4 (permalink)  
Member
 
Ofelie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: The Pit of Despair
Posts: 148
I called it flipping. Mine would flip, back and forth. One minute I was his everything. I was his Pride and Joy. His soul mate. He would look at me with that smile... the special one just for me. Other people saw him look at me with that smile. Then..Anything...anything...literally anything could trigger him to flip and suddenly I was a liar, a bitch, a mistake. The WORST. Its sickening. Its...I don't know the word. Soul sucking. Thing is, see, having to ask him to moderate his behavior means that his current behavior is not acceptable to you. Stop trying to force yourself to accept something that is clearly not making you happy. I have spent months...no years, really, years at this point, trying to understand it, the addiction, the alcohol. Was it mental illness? Was it addiction? In the end..it does not really matter. What matters is that I could not tolerate, could not accept that behavior anymore. It was literally sucking the life out of me. I was becoming so exhausted, so stressed, so emotionally overwrought by his behavior I had to throw the towel in.
After over seven months apart from him I have slowly come to the realization that it was hopeless and I should have gotten out much much sooner. I now see it all for what it was. Yes, I still love him. Yes, it all still hurts. But you will never ever make sense of his behavior, and you really really reallllly do not need to. I thought I did. I learned that I didn't. I had to ACCEPT that letting go of him because he was full of behavior that was unacceptable to me was good enough reason.
I have not read your other posts, though I will. I can only say, if this is what he is doing? I expect it to escalate. I, with all the love and support I can muster, suggest that you bail on the whole thing now before it gets worse.
Ofelie is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 01:57 PM
  # 5 (permalink)  
Baby Steps
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,689
Hi allieclaire. I was with my husband 18 years and he has had an addiction with alcohol before I met him but I was young and just thought he would grow out of it, he didn't infact throughout our marriage there were times his addiction was so bad it was a rarely sober. Times he would try to moderate his drinking and There were other times he quit but could never sustain it for long periods. He then became more of a binge drinker. He would tell me after a particularly bad binge that he was never drinking again he recognised he had a problem with drink and would seek help he was in love with me and didn't want to lose me by a few days later when the guilt had eased and he was beginning to feel better that he could manage his drinking himself and he didn't need to speak to a counsellor. His friends would tell him he didn't have an alcohol problem "you just like a drink there's nothing wrong with that". Yet when he became too drunk they couldn't wait to get rid of him and at times dropped him at my front door and drove off before I even opened the door. Yet he was more loyal to his fiends than me!!!! His friends won't tell him he has a problem because then they would have to look at their own drinking and they are not prepared to do that they won't acknowledge they have a problem.

He left me 4 months ago as he decided that he wanted to drink more than be at home with his wife and kids. Alcoholism is a confusing disease and I am still trying to get my head around it. There is a stickie about alcoholic thinking at the top of the forum also the other stickies have lots of information to help you understand this addiction. Read all you can to help you understand.

When an alcoholic is faced with giving up drink their alcoholic voice comes into play, they are more scared of living without their addiction as it means looking deep within themselves as to how and why the addiction started it also means changing their circle of friends if they are drinkers. Alcohol is comforting it blocks out their pain, distress, thoughts, poor decisions and ensures that they don't think about anything too serious!! To an alcoholic they don't see a problem and will do anything to ensure they can continue to drink even hurt the ones they love and who love them. Nothing and no one gets I between an alcoholic and their alcohol and they will say and do anything to get their next drink.

There is so much more to your question please read all you can. I wish you peace and send hugs
Butterfly is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 02:04 PM
  # 6 (permalink)  
Member
 
lillamy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
What about our commitment ceremony next Spring? What about moving in together next Fall?
I would make no commitment to, nor move in with, an actively using addict, regardless of substance.

It really is like invasion of the body snatchers, isn't it? They look the same. And then when their addiction is challenged or threatened, it's like Dr. Jekyll turns into Mr. Hyde. Like they're possessed.

The thing is -- until and unless they get sober, and into serious recovery (recovery: physical, emotional, and spiritual), you will always live with both Jekyll and Hyde.

I, like Confused, married an addict not realizing he was an addict. We were relatively young and both in lines of work where going to an upscale bar with clients was par for the course. I imagined once we married and had kids, that we would adjust that behavior and become responsible. He never intended to. When I insisted, he just moved his drinking to the basement at home and drank alone instead of with clients or buddies.

I got my wonderful kids out of the 20 years of alcoholic marriage. I can't regret my choices because of my kids. But I would never, ever, ever advice anyone to marry an alcoholic and "see how it goes"... the pain, the descent into hell, the abuse... nobody needs that. Nobody deserves that.

I think learning as much as you can about alcoholism, and about what to expect, is a great place to start. And then figure out in your own mind if that is what you want to do with your life. If you want to stay with this man even if things never get better than they are right now. Because if he doesn't want to quit drinking -- for himself, not for you -- then that's what you're looking at.
lillamy is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 04:30 PM
  # 7 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 224
Thanks everyone. Firebolt- all plans are off. I appreciate both you and Fairlyuncertain's suggestion about getting my own help...I am working on that too.

Ofelie- its a strange illness. Sometimes he seems so healthy but then when he is drunk as a skunk, he looks so old, weathered beyond his years and there is something distant and lost in his eyes.

Confused- it is amazing how similar the stories sound. Mine fled to his enabling friends who happily passed him a drink while confirming that he was "a good person"...the friends even went so far as to tell his mother that he was just fine, just fine...

And Lil- yes, it is crazy. Mr. Hyde has emerged... trying to steer clear of him since he is my next door neighbor...eh, I know, but he just seemed so convincing when he declared his love.
Timeiskey is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:13 PM
  # 8 (permalink)  
Member
 
redatlanta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Let's see….mine said that me asking him to quit made me a person that he didn't want to be with because I am too controlling. He also said…...

- He is a grown man and doesn't need to be treated like a child he already has a mom
- I need to chill
- He is no longer an alcoholic because a REAL alcoholic wouldn't be able to stay sober for 10 years (which he had)
- He was never really an alcoholic he was living with one and when they split the problem went with her (I guess he forgot the part that she left him after his alcoholism sent him to the hospital in a 30 day coma).

Then his next tactic was to get me to agree to give up something I loved (my cats) if he was going to quit drinking so that things were "fair" (just more quacking because he knew that wasn't happening).

He was and had been sober for 10 years when I met him. The relapse was hellacious. He chose sobriety when after a horrific night I told him to get the f**k out of my house and out of my life. He embraced recovery again and its been near 2 years the last year being really, really happy. I had to attend Al Anon to deal with it for months. Love him he is an angel, and he works his recovery daily - but I tell ya what. If he ever relapses again he will be picking his sh!t up off the street no round two's and I remind him of that every once in awhile.

You already sound like you have some perspective - just for reinforcement - unless you have decided to sentence your self to life of hell that you cannot fathom move along.
redatlanta is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 06:45 PM
  # 9 (permalink)  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 494
I imagined once we married and had kids, that we would adjust that behavior and become responsible. He never intended to. When I insisted, he just moved his drinking to the basement at home and drank alone instead of with clients or buddies.

I got my wonderful kids out of the 20 years of alcoholic marriage. I can't regret my choices because of my kids. But I would never, ever, ever advice anyone to marry an alcoholic and "see how it goes"... the pain, the descent into hell, the abuse... nobody needs that. Nobody deserves that.
My life too, in a nutshell.

If he ever relapses again he will be picking his sh!t up off the street no round two's and I remind him of that every once in awhile.
^ I am loving this.

just for reinforcement - unless you have decided to sentence your self to life of hell that you cannot fathom move along.
Seriously, allieclaire. You dodged a hell of a bullet. Rejoice.
Santa is offline  
Old 07-16-2014, 08:53 PM
  # 10 (permalink)  
Member
 
HealingWillCome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Here's another one for you allie (I keep a bunch of these bookmarked under "Just In Case I'm Dumb Enough to Think About Dating Another Alcoholic/Addict"). This one helped me a lot too. Here's the link to the thread: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-thinking.html

A good article on Alcoholic Thinking
This is an article written by Jim LaPierre, LCSW, CCS

It's a succint explanation of the thought processes and behaviors of an active alcoholic in his professional experience. I think many of us recognize these behaviors in our loved ones. A newbie member in our Newcomers to Recovery forum posted about this article, and I wanted to share it here.

The Insanity of Alcoholism
Sadly, well intentioned folks try to protect the alcoholic from him/herself (enabling) or try to predict what they will do next (no crystal ball available). There are hundreds of wise sayings amongst alcoholics in recovery. Some are meant to make you think and some are meant to be taken very literally. Alcoholics Anonymous refers to, “the insanity of our disease.” This is a very literal statement. I can tell you a bit about understanding the active alcoholic but I cannot make it make sense to you because understanding the active alcoholic requires stripping away a lot of rational thought, the acknowledgement and willingness to learn from mistakes, the ability to recognize obvious patterns of behavior, and quite often, the application of common sense.

There are at least a hundred forms of alcoholism. What I am describing here is the person who is still drinking, is high functioning, and has not yet lost the things they hold dear. The disease of addiction dictates that they will lose these things in time and the rule of threes dictates a grim long term prognosis (jail, institution, and/or death).

Alcoholics think, act, believe, and feel based on distorted perceptions or themselves and the world around them. They live at the extremes of all or nothing. There is no moderation, no middle ground, no compromise, and no gray area in their worldview. To varying degrees, alcoholics live in denial of their destructiveness (self and others) and this further distorts what they are able to make sense of.

"Probably"
Alcoholics are the very best liars because they are able to use rationalization and justification to convince themselves that a lie is truth. This happens subconsciously. They are not aware that they are, if you’ll pardon the term – mind screwing themselves. Alcoholics adopt a language that facilitates lying in a way that sounds very well intentioned. Their favorite word is, “probably.” This word implies intention where in fact none exists. An alcoholic who tells you they will probably do something is highly unlikely to do it. Using words like these provides them a loop hole – an escape hatch in which no absolutes are given and no promises made. The alcoholic relies on words and phrases like: possibly, maybe, would, could, should, I’d like to, I want to, I need to. These words mean nothing. They sound good but almost always lead to disappointment. Progressively, alcoholism blurs every line and impacts every interaction, every relationship, every part of the alcoholic’s world.

Firehouse Management
Putting blinders on a horse leaves it with no peripheral vision – such is the worldview of the alcoholic. They may attend to many things, but in order to do so they must turn their attention away from one thing and toward another. Multitasking for the alcoholic means making many messes at once. There is no balance for the active alcoholic. As one area of their life declines they will often focus their attention on it and take it to an extreme. As this happens, another part of their life declines and gradually their life becomes dictated by “firehouse management” – every course of action becomes based on the most pressing problem. This is an inevitably downward spiral, though some alcoholics manage to maintain it for a very long time.

External Locus of Control
As alcoholics tend to drink progressively more they will generally conceal the frequency and amount they drink. They will tell you they only had three glasses of wine and this is true. What they have not told you is that each glass was a 16 ounce tumbler. It is not only the drinking that gets hidden; it is also the negative affects alcohol produces in their lives. Alcoholics develop what counselors call “an external locus of control.” Progressively, everything is someone else’s fault. If their job is going poorly it’s because their boss hates them. If their marriage suffers then their spouse is unreasonable. If they fail as parents they will see their children as ungrateful. Everything and everyone becomes a reason to drink. The spiraling alcoholic will often say that they don’t even want to drink but that circumstances like their horrible job/spouse/kids “force” them to.

Self-Pity and the Sense of Entitlement
Alcoholics often have a bizarre sense of entitlement. They reason that having such a difficult/stressful/demanding life entitles them to act in ways that are immature, irresponsible, and selfish. To observe their behavior is to conclude a belief that the world must owe them something. The active alcoholic wallows in self-pity and concludes that they are a victim of life. As they demand more from the world they expect less and less from themselves.

Appearance over Substance
The quickest route to self destruction for alcoholics are the words, “Screw it.” This is a declaration that everything is already screwed so they might as well drink. When people decide to stop drinking we encourage them to notice that “It” is actually, “Me.” This is evident in, “It’s not worth it.” On some level the alcoholic always knows the truth and they are usually working hard not to know it. They pretend and demand that those close to them buy into the fantasy that all is well. Life becomes progressively less about anything substantive and progressively more about maintaining appearances. This is well explained in Pink’s song, “Family Portrait.” “In our family portrait we look pretty happy. We look pretty normal…”

Master Manipulators
Alcoholics are master manipulators. They may not have been con artists before they started drinking but they come to have remarkable skills. They are the folks who can sell ice to Eskimos. They will pick a fight with you because they want to leave and they will have you believing it’s your fault. They show little or no accountability. They may have had integrity before their addiction kicked in but it will be conspicuously absent from their lives as they spiral. There is often one exception to this rule for each alcoholic – one thing they do especially well and it will most generally be their sole source of self esteem. We have known a large number of alcoholics who have incredible work ethics because being a good worker is the one thing they know they’re good at…well, they will say that and drinking.

Alcoholism - A Unique Disease
The disease of alcoholism gradually and insidiously strips everything away from a person. We have been asked countless times whether alcoholism is truly a disease or a choice. In truth it is both. Alcoholism is unique as a disease in that it not only hides from view – it also lies to its carrier about its presence. The person who is active in addiction has a unique choice relative to all other diseases. The alcoholic can go into remission at any time and many do. We see that alcoholics will abstain from drinking for a time to prove to themselves or others that they are not addicted, only to return later with a vengeance.

This is from an article entitled: Alcoholic Thinking - Understanding the Insanity of Alcoholism: How the Alcoholic Thinks
HealingWillCome is offline  
Old 07-18-2014, 08:10 AM
  # 11 (permalink)  
Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 224
Healing- this is a great article. I have shared it with loved ones. Thank you for posting. My exAB would often say that he was the president of the rationalization and justification society...I thought he was joking...
Timeiskey is offline  
Old 07-18-2014, 09:41 AM
  # 12 (permalink)  
Member
 
HealingWillCome's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,057
Originally Posted by allieclaire View Post
My exAB would often say that he was the president of the rationalization and justification society...I thought he was joking...
That's sadly funny. I would sometimes laugh at similar things my xabf would throw out there. Because he presented them as a joke. But in retrospect I would realize it was some self-realization, admittance on his part of his struggles. I believe he always had an internal battle going on...wanting to fight the disease but not wanting to let go at the same time. A love/hate relationship with his addictions. BUT completely his battle and not mine...I've got my own shiz to work on.
HealingWillCome is offline  

Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:21 AM.