SallyTaylor

Hi all,

I continue to find your wisdom a source of inspiration! While I don't post very much, when I do log in I hungrily read up a variety of threads and it has helped me calm the churn in my head as I've turned over the drinking patterns and more importantly the behavior patters that I've experienced and tried to make sense of them.

I guess I'm feeling a bit vulnerable and looking for some input tonight.

My husband moved out over 6 weeks ago at my request. Tension had been building since February and I just finally lost it in April and said he had to leave. Then I regretted it and we went back-and-forth but then he finally moved out. We agreed when he moved out that we would have a standing date on Sundays and try to see each other once during the week pending schedules while trying to figure out whether/how we could salvage our relationship.

Well, how many Sundays has that actually happened? Zero. How many times has he bothered to give advance notice that he was canceling? Zero. The latest was 2 weeks ago when I texted asking his ETA and 3 hours later I get the reply that he is on his way to Block Island for vacation! As part of this separation I have been trying very hard to practice my boundaries. So my response was "going forward please give advance notice when you are canceling one of our agreed dates." A few hours later I got an "I'm sorry work stuff is challenging so this might be my only chance for vacation." While that may/may not be true, I was most impressed that I actually go an "I'm sorry" as I think that actually may be the very first one in the 6 years we have been together.... (I'm literally not kidding. The man does not apologize and would literally run out the door to the bar during any kind of conflict)

Fast forward to this past weekend. We haven't seen each other in the past few weeks given him being out of town and then I was. He was out entertaining his clients (drinking all day as usual in this setting) and at midnight he sends me the following text:

"In the end a snout wins. I love you. I want a divorce"

This is what I woke up to on Saturday morning. I could not believe anyone would be so callous as to say that kind of thing on text, and further the juxtaposition of it with I love you is just flat out weird. It took me several hours but I finally figured out what he meant by the reference to the snout - it is his way of saying that the dogs win - he has always complained about me loving the dogs more than him.

I of course don't reply. I cry a bit and then begin to think that he is doing me a favor, if he is the kind of person who could send a text like that.

Then 12 hours later I get an "I'm sorry about my inappropriate text. I"ve been having a hard time processing this."

I was floored - the 2nd apology in 6 years in 2 weeks!!

I guess my question boils down to whether others have experienced such a stark display of conflicting feelings from their alcoholic spouse and what to make of it. Also, the behavior around blowing me off on all those Sundays and 5 additional times during the week is consistent with how he would blow me off when we were living together by telling me he would be home at 9 and coming home after midnight.

So I am not seeing any real behavior changes yet other than 2 apologies. (which is a record for this guy). I am seeing that I am not freaking out by this treatment though, and beginning to assert some boundaries so that is great improvement for me! :-)

What do you make of the feeling of love that was expressed? How likely is it that those feelings are genuine on his part vs just part of the manipulations of the bad behavior that he continues to display? I just don't know if there is enough love underneath all the disrespect and bad behavior to salvage. I just couldn't imagine saying to someone on text what he said to me.

Thanks for any thoughts on this.



trying to figure out how likely the behavior changes

Raider

Is he a drinker?

amy55

Hi Sally,

I really don't know what to say to this, except where did you find my ex?

This is way more then alcoholism. I remember being afraid to wash the kitchen floor because I was told I loved my kitchen floor more then I loved him.

My ex would actually turn his car around in the driveway, (we had a 200 ft driveway) so that he could make a fast getaway to run to the bar, or wherever he was going.

I just know how crazy I was getting, and I tried to isolate myself. I didn't want to talk about these strange things, I wanted to just believe they weren't happening.

Just know that we are here for you.

Welcome

(((((((hugs))))))))
I stayed for a really long time with someone like this. I made myself crazy, trying to figure things out.

The push/pull, back/forth, it's all a pattern.

SallyTaylor

yes. I guess what they would describe as "functional alcoholic." Before he moved out I found a receipt for a lunch he had alone where he had 10 drinks by himself, 5 of which were shots of tequila. He can drink 10-12 beers and appear fully sober. I could go on and on with various anecdotes. He went to AA once a few years ago but said it didn't apply to him.

SallyTaylor

Thanks, Amy. He told me once I was addicted to the dogs, decor and documents (meaning work). And then came him. I could actually picture my husband saying the kitchen floor comment to me! I think you are right it is more than just alcohol. There is a deep rooted disrespect I feel at times that comes out even when he is not drinking. I've gotten to the point where I'm exhausted trying to figure out why and I've recently realized that the why doesn't even matter - it is the behavior that matters. I just found that "I love you" part so jarring. It was almost like let me stab you with the knife and then twist it in to make sure it hurts

Santa

He sounds exactly like my ex - texts and all - except mine is no longer the 'functional' kind of alcoholic.

I'm aware my ex still "loves me" and is "sorry" for what he did to us. Those are just words. They were never backed up by meaningful action.

dandylion

Sally--you might be talking about a personality disorder---Narcissistic type, in particular.

If so--the likelyhood of any significant change is dim.

I'm not making a "diagnosis", of course, but...you might want to read up on this disorder and see if much of it resonates with you.

dandylion

amy55

I heard that also. He would treat me like I didn't exist for a few months, and we were married for over 25 years. He would run away from home, then come home and get mad at me if I wasn't over yet.

If I was able to get over it, I really don't think that I was even able to walk around the house without him holding my hand, or having his arm around my shoulder, or wanting to sleep with me like I was his "teddy bear", then the next day, he wanted nothing to do with me, and he would ignore me again.

I don't know how long you are married, just know this will get worse, and I will talk to you about anything you need to talk about, if what I said resonates with you.

amy55

I just don't want you to go through what I did, so if any of our stories somewhat match what you are going through, I know we would all love to share with you.

I just don't want you to do what I did. I began to isolate myself, because the crazier he got, the crazier I got.

SallyTaylor

Wow - these comments are really eye opening. I've read a lot of posts on here and I trust the wisdom of this community. If you guys think there is more to it than just the alcohol that is very telling. It also makes me sad because at least with the alcohol there is always the chance that he will stop and go into recovery. For root personality issues I don't think there is any real therapy? I have been trying very hard to practice detachment with love and not be so angry for all the disrespectful behavior over the years. It's helping a bit and allowing me to not get so worked up over these back-and-forth behaviors. We've been married 4 years, together for 6. I think what you guys are saying explains why I have struggled to categorize what the core problem is -- whether it was truly driven by the drinking or not. I think it might be the overlap of impaired drinking with a selfish personality. Thanks for sharing your thoughts

amy55

Sally, I was a member on many forums. It was like nothing seemed to really fit him. First it was an abuse forum, then it was a bi-polar forum, then I came here, but I came here for me, not him. I was already divorced then, but I still needed help to deal with the PTSD that resulted from being married to him. I went to a Borderline Personality Disorder forum. This was just this year and I am divorced for over 3 years. I needed to know what I was dealing with.

I'm not saying you are dealing with this. I'm just saying that his behavior is a little bit to the extreme.

Just stick around with us, even if it is to just chit chat. Sometimes things like this can make you crazy, which in a way, it did that to me.

(((((((hugs)))))))

SallyTaylor

Amy - it does sound very similar except my guy never cared enough about my feelings to actually apologize or try to make amends afterwards. He would just pretend nothing happened. We are legally separated - signed the documents and everything - and he is out of the apartment so we are the stage of just trying to figure out whether there is anything salvageable here. I feel like the worst of the pain of separation has passed but then when he says the "I love you" and "I miss you" it makes me wonder if there is a way to make this relationship actually work.

If I wanted to I could literally make a list of hundreds of incidents of selfish/disrespectful behaviors, drinking episodes etc that happened over the 6 years, so it really doesn't make sense to think it would get any better going forward without any acknowledgement on his part. And even with acknowledgement it is likely a tough path.

I'm sorry that others have gone through this too. I am finding comfort in the knowledge of seeing the patterns from others' experiences - at this time last year I literally had lost all sense of what was reasonable/acceptable behavior. I've started to feel a bit more like myself since he moved out.

Santa

I think addiction often coexists with other mental health issues. For years I've thought my ex has undiagnosed bipolar disorder.

SallyTaylor

Amy, I know what you mean about searching for all the different causes! After he moved out I counted all the self-help books I had accumulated from friends, the library, Amazon, etc. There were 67!!!! Of course I didn't read all of them, but I realized I was desperately searching for "the answer" I had books on alcoholism, verbal abuse, selfish/controlling men, infidelity, making a good marriage, how to decide to divorce, dealing with divorce etc. Finally I realized there is no "one answer" It is the constellation of it all in this one person.

I'm glad to hear you are on the other side of it now. I can totally see what you mean by the PTSD piece - it inflicts a trauma that cuts to the core of your soul.

Thanks for the warm welcome! I'm feeling better already from these few posts alone

amy55

Sally, mine never really did care about my feelings, I thought he did in the beginning because he would apologize. He didn't really care, he just did it because he kind of knew that is the acceptable thing to do.

I found out that he didn't mean it because he had no empathy. He couldn't understand why I would be upset about anything, like calling me names, and he thought that he could fight with me, say whatever he wanted to say, get all his venting out (rage), then we should have sex, make up, go to sleep, and nothing happened.

It was when I stopped the make up sex, and wanted to be "me" again and tried to tell him that he can't do this to me, I really do think that he really didn't understand this.

I spent years trying to get validation for my feelings for why it hurt me if he called me names, put me down, etc..... He just didn't get it.

SallyTaylor

Maybe they use the alcohol to self-medicate?

Santa

^ Bingo

SallyTaylor

yes, that has been my experience too. It is this callousness - a blankness when you try to explain how you are feeling. AFter one incident we were sitting in a restaurant and I started crying and he looks at me with disgust and hisses that if I don't stop right now we are going to have to leave because people are watching.

Once you have some distance from it, it seems nuts to have put up with it. But somehow in the midst of it, I would try harder to "prove" my feelings to him so that he would somehow get it

FeelingGreat

Hi Sally, whatever his underlying issues, it seems he's taking advantage of being away from the family home to drink more. Probably why he's stood you up so consistently. For now recovery seems a long time away, if ever, and sobriety has to be the foundation of any meaningful change.

Maybe you could ask yourself how long you are willing to wait for him to become serious about recovery?

amy55

Sally, if you don't have a book, I'm sure I have it. (lol)

The answer to all of this, and that there is no answer. If he wants to change, perhaps he can with a psychiatrist and therapy. And meds. But it doesn't seem like he wants to. Mine didn't. He knew he was effed up, and he wanted me to live with that.

I got him into joint therapy and heard some of the most unbelievable things come out of him. I had a psychotherapist tell me that he had the emotional maturity of a 7 year old and that if my ex worked really hard with him, they might be able to get it up to that of a 12 year old.