discounting the positive?

Old 07-15-2014, 08:46 AM
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discounting the positive?

When is enough, enough? And in this case, I mean: When is your RAH "doing" enough, and I'm just not being appreciative enough? I know he's making the attempt to "do more/better" when it comes to treating his addiction, but he says he feels like I'm discounting the positive things he is doing (recovery group once a week, therapist monthly?, taking better care of his physical health) and not acknowledging the hard work he is doing.

I think part of the problem is that I also see that except for the last few days, I've watched him roll in and out of lapse/relapse over months now and I feel like his current sobriety is possibly being used like a bargaining chip…he's sober because I've cut off ties with the people in my life he doesn't "like" - my friends, his sister, the interventionist we worked with, to name a few. (He feels strongly that I "overshare" his private business and that I just need to keep my mouth shut and talk to him when I have issues with his drinking.) SO - is there an "enough"? Is there a way to even measure that?
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:26 AM
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I don't know...is it your job to validate his recovery?
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrazy View Post
He feels strongly that I "overshare" his private business and that I just need to keep my mouth shut and talk to him when I have issues with his drinking.
That statement is a part of the disease. Keeping quiet, keeping secrets, not shining a light on things, keeping you and him isolated from others. I don't go into details with others that I don't need to, but I also don't keep secrets. As my recovery strengthens, it's easier to be honest, but also not to get drawn into the drama of the details. Baby steps, one day at a time, easy does it. We learn by doing. As I work on myself I become aware of the times I'm being silent or oversharing and can learn from it. Not from someone else (the A, friends/family) telling me what I should or shouldn't be doing. It's hard to get rid of all those voices that echo in my head, but I'm learning to trust my own instincts and it's okay if I mess up from time to time.

How long has he been completely sober? Let him work his own recovery, rejoice in each day he's sober and let him find his own way. He'll be learning also, what's working or what's not. If our A's recovery isn't working for them, they'll be finding that out soon enough. My husband went through two rehabs in the past 7 months, with relapsing in between. It's been hard stepping aside, and only possible by continually working on myself (and finding out now how badly I need it!!) but I also see now how important that he find his own way through this. Our doctor taught me that instead of looking at it as 'He's drinking already again and it's only been two weeks!" to celebrate the fact that he just spent two weeks sober. When he relapsed after the first rehab, I was able to see what a wonderful thing it was that he had spent 3 1/2 months sober. It also gave us a break from the alcohol and to see more underlying issues that the alcohol was covering up. With each relapse, his AND mine, there's been more to learn.

You're important, too. What are you doing for your own recovery? Are you cutting these people out because of him, or because they're unhealthy for you right now?
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Old 07-15-2014, 09:51 AM
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The addict is putting conditions on you for his recovery?

Clearly there is an argument for personal privacy but I think that would sound like "could you please not discuss the details of my recovery with others" and not a demand that you not talk to this or that person.

That said, when I first started up in alanon it was suggested to me that I not go into the gory details w/ friends and family because after a while thats all that would end up being talked about- and I definitely appreciate that point now. Might be a good time to see to your own recovery- I've discovered a lot of my own issues while doing so- not that I caused RAW to drink but I sure added to her levels of stress, anger, and frustration.
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Old 07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
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ALittleBit---it really isn't a bargaining thing (when dealing with addictions an toxic relationships). Not....if I do this much....or, if you do that much......

It is about finding peace, and, a contentment deep inside, and living a life where you can thrive--not just tolerate or exist.

one recovery group a week and counselor once a month seems like a barest minimum.
A recovery program--esp. in the beginning is very intensive and takes a lot of time and effort--It is the TOP PRIORITY if a person is really serious on changing their live from the inside out.

darlin'--it isn't your job to be his cheerleader for his recovery program---he has others to do that job (recovery program people, AA members, etc.).

The fact that he is trying to dictate to you--in my opinion, is not a good sign. It is up to you to conduct yourself as you see fit. If he doesn't like it---he doesn't like it.
He is not your Daddy.....

There is a saying that each person needs to "stay inside their own hoola-hoop"


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Old 07-15-2014, 11:05 AM
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I think the only enough you can measure is your own. Are you doing enough and for yourself, are you receiving enough?
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:07 AM
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You are no more responsible for his recovery than I am. His recovery does not depend you who your friends are, who you hang out with, who you talk to and what you talk about. His recovery depends on him and him alone.

So, you can put those bags down, they aren't yours to carry, and figure out what type of life you want.

Your friend,
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
You are no more responsible for his recovery than I am. His recovery does not depend you who your friends are, who you hang out with, who you talk to and what you talk about. His recovery depends on him and him alone.

So, you can put those bags down, they aren't yours to carry, and figure out what type of life you want.

Your friend,


Well said!!

--------------------

Where I was talking of "oversharing" is from my own learning of what's appropriate for me -- what he thinks of it isn't any of my business!
I'm learning how to socialize. Who and when to share pieces of myself with. It's a learning process and really good for me. The more I do this, the better I get at opening my heart and making connections with others.
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Old 07-16-2014, 12:57 AM
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My concern is that he's trying to put the responsibility for his recovery on to you. One of the aims of Alanon, beyond providing support for the friends and family of alcoholics, is to offer encouragement and understanding to the alcoholic - but that's as far as it goes.

I'm also concerned that he's laying down conditions for his recovery - in that he's dictating who you should and should not be friends with. This is a tactic used by abusers of all kinds, to isolate the victim so that there is no challenge to their power. There is a risk that by sharing with people known to the alcoholic, some unhealthy dynamics are set up and they're sucked into the situation inappropriately, but as everyone on this forum knows - discussing the drinking problem WITH the alcoholic will get you precisely nowhere.

If he's being serious about his recovery, the desire needs to come from within him and won't be dependent on your approval or otherwise, and it certainly won't be used as a tool to control you. It's also quite common for addicts of all kinds to cease their addictive behaviour in the short term, to please someone else. But the addiction is a stronger force than that, and it won't be long before the person they're trying to please becomes the 'reason' they start drinking or using again.

In your situation, I'd be looking to take care of my own recovery and become more secure with my own boundaries; one of the ways I keep myself shielded from the vicious outbursts from my alcoholic brother is to let myself know whose problem this really is.
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Old 07-16-2014, 04:36 AM
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he's dictating who you should and should not be friends with. This is a tactic used by abusers of all kinds, to isolate the victim
+1

That's how it went with my ex. Early in our relationship he "encouraged" me to cease contact with certain people he didn't like (most of whom he barely knew). Then he started in trying to limit any post-5 pm contact with my work friends and colleagues. It was incredibly stressful. As his disease progressed over the years, he became incensed by what and how much I told my family. (BTW that is where I drew the line, finally...I come from a close family and was not going to allow him to cut me off from my parents.)

My own recovery began when I stopped keeping his secrets. I got honest with our kids about daddy's disease. I told my sister everything. I talked to a counselor and stopped lying for him and minimizing the disastrous effects of his drinking and his anger on our lives. On my life. It was incredibly freeing. The 20-year marriage did not survive, but we did - me and the children. We talk about anything and everything now, without filtering for his possible reactions. No secrets.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by ALittleBitCrazy View Post
…he's sober because I've cut off ties with the people in my life he doesn't "like" - my friends, his sister, the interventionist we worked with, to name a few. (He feels strongly that I "overshare" his private business and that I just need to keep my mouth shut and talk to him when I have issues with his drinking.) SO - is there an "enough"? Is there a way to even measure that?
Dear, they always "don't like" people who are clued in to what's really going on. Of course he wants to isolate you from these people because he is fighting to maintain your marriage and doesn't want some other person influencing you by reminding you of the awful things he has done.

Just a suggest never let anyone dictate to you who you can and cannot be friends with. Your sister? You have cut off ties with your family to keep him sober? Um no. There is nothing you can do or not do that will keep him sober. he may be sober but he doesn't sound recovered it sounds like he is still quagmired in A thinking.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:35 AM
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A lot of great advice here on taking care of yourself that I cannot add to. But as a AA meeting maker, I will toss out one observation that hit me immediately: If you are in the twin cities, and he is only going to 1 meeting a week, he doesn't want it very bad. I go to 7-12 meetings per week in a metro area approximately 1/6th the size of Minneapolis/St Paul.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:34 AM
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So here's my thing: I've never seen the spouse of an A discounting the positive and being too hard on the A in their life.

On the contrary, most of us seem to be just too happy to pat the A on the back for behaving like a normal adult for more than 24 hours.

I wouldn't worry about "not appreciating their efforts" enough.
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