A horrible night and a harsh wake up call
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A horrible night and a harsh wake up call
Sorry super long....putting this down more for me to be able to reread and reread when I need to.
Yesterday I got a call from a man who my AH used to work with. He was to have lunch with him. He said when he met my AH he was very drunk and obviously depressed. AH started making suicide threats. The friend tried to get AH home in a cab. AH told the cab driver that the friend was trying to assault him and to drive off...and the cabbie did, leaving the friend behind.
The friend then called me at work because he was very concerned about the suicide threats. Long story short AH turned up in a hospital. When I got there he was being held down by 4 security guards and the dr was forcing a large quantity of sedative into him. He was being very agro.
He had a BAC of .28 and he had stopped drinking for several hours at that point.
It was horrible. Horrible.
The wake up call?
The addiction specialist at the hospital gave me a reality check, big time. Explained what I knew in terms of - alcohol, mental health, unless AH wants treatment there is nothing he, I, the hospital or anyone else can do. Even suicide attempts won't see him involuntarily committed.
My AH is 42 and has been drinking since his late teens. He basically said that the chances at this age, with his history and resistance to treatment of him even entering a recovery program, let alone 'working' the program was virtually nill.
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but in a man with a alcoholic career of 25 years, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
He had read all AH's old file notes from years back when he was hospitalised for 'bipolar' and shared some info with me.....a lot of what I've been told by AH about his history is lies. Surprise surprise. Said that he looks for a few signs to see if its likely someone might be ready to enter treatment. Number one was 'insight' and he said that AH's file had notes by all dr's etc that had seen him in the past saying he exhibited no insight. At all.
AH was being detained until he was deemed 'competent' to decide to leave. Meaning a BAC of 0.0. Which would take 15 hours or so. Then they'd try to assess him....but the dr said he could almost guarantee my AH's response would be "sorry, am so embaressed, having lots of stress, got drunk, suicide threats were alcohol talking, yes I'll go back and see my doc, yes ill get treatment, sorry sorry" and off he'll go and there is nothing he can do about it. And there's nothing I can do about it.
I had to leave him the as the hospital staff asked me why on earth I'd want to stick around and see him like this, plus he was very aggressive and they weren't sure if I was making him worse or better.
I didn't realise how much hope I was hanging on to. And that's gone now. I really needed to hear it. I'm devastated. But now I know. Now I know.
Yesterday I got a call from a man who my AH used to work with. He was to have lunch with him. He said when he met my AH he was very drunk and obviously depressed. AH started making suicide threats. The friend tried to get AH home in a cab. AH told the cab driver that the friend was trying to assault him and to drive off...and the cabbie did, leaving the friend behind.
The friend then called me at work because he was very concerned about the suicide threats. Long story short AH turned up in a hospital. When I got there he was being held down by 4 security guards and the dr was forcing a large quantity of sedative into him. He was being very agro.
He had a BAC of .28 and he had stopped drinking for several hours at that point.
It was horrible. Horrible.
The wake up call?
The addiction specialist at the hospital gave me a reality check, big time. Explained what I knew in terms of - alcohol, mental health, unless AH wants treatment there is nothing he, I, the hospital or anyone else can do. Even suicide attempts won't see him involuntarily committed.
My AH is 42 and has been drinking since his late teens. He basically said that the chances at this age, with his history and resistance to treatment of him even entering a recovery program, let alone 'working' the program was virtually nill.
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but in a man with a alcoholic career of 25 years, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
He had read all AH's old file notes from years back when he was hospitalised for 'bipolar' and shared some info with me.....a lot of what I've been told by AH about his history is lies. Surprise surprise. Said that he looks for a few signs to see if its likely someone might be ready to enter treatment. Number one was 'insight' and he said that AH's file had notes by all dr's etc that had seen him in the past saying he exhibited no insight. At all.
AH was being detained until he was deemed 'competent' to decide to leave. Meaning a BAC of 0.0. Which would take 15 hours or so. Then they'd try to assess him....but the dr said he could almost guarantee my AH's response would be "sorry, am so embaressed, having lots of stress, got drunk, suicide threats were alcohol talking, yes I'll go back and see my doc, yes ill get treatment, sorry sorry" and off he'll go and there is nothing he can do about it. And there's nothing I can do about it.
I had to leave him the as the hospital staff asked me why on earth I'd want to stick around and see him like this, plus he was very aggressive and they weren't sure if I was making him worse or better.
I didn't realise how much hope I was hanging on to. And that's gone now. I really needed to hear it. I'm devastated. But now I know. Now I know.
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I'm sorry his is happening. I think your addiction specialist is a loon. There are lots of people, including myself, who have sobered up later in life. I've never heard a doctor say someone was too old for recovery. That is just ********. And ask that loon how you live your entire 42 years over again, that's ******** too. Now confronting his reasons for drinking may take him into his past? he wants to sober up he will. This has nothing to do with you. You take care of you. He takes care of himself. And fire that buttwipe that gave you no hope. Blessings and welcome.
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y AH is 42 and has been drinking since his late teens. He basically said that the chances at this age, with his history and resistance to treatment of him even entering a recovy program, let alone 'working' the program was virtually nill.
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but it a man with a alcoholic career of 25, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
Oh this makes me so mad. What a crazy doctor. Your AH is still walking, talking, is alive and has a wife. Soooooo that isn't bottom yet, is it. I'd punch that doctor right in the face (don't do that) for telling you such ignorant ****. Ranting now......
He explained that AH has never lived any adult moment in his life without using alcohol. That he has the mind of a teenage boy. That to recover he'd need to go back and relive every moment of his life again...he'd need to feel everything, realise everything, confront every atom of hurt and damage he'd caused. And that in his 30 years of specialising in addiction medicine he had rarely seen someone with my AH's history have a positive ending. The challenge of living without alcohol at this stage of his life would most likely be insurmountable. Not totally impossible....but highly, highly unlikely.
Said AA talks about rock bottom....but it a man with a alcoholic career of 25, that started when he was a teen....there was no such thing. In all likelihood.
Oh this makes me so mad. What a crazy doctor. Your AH is still walking, talking, is alive and has a wife. Soooooo that isn't bottom yet, is it. I'd punch that doctor right in the face (don't do that) for telling you such ignorant ****. Ranting now......
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Thanks Raider for our thoughts. I hope I'm not misrepresenting the doctor....he didn't say it never, never happens.....he said of course people do recover, if hey didn't he wouldn't be doing what he does.
He was just giving me a reality check about MY AH. HE has no insight, no motivation. HE has no desire for recovery. Is still lately in denial and certainly in the throes of the disease. He was getting me to really think about what a massive job my AH has in front of him and why that feeds so powerfully into denial.
Doc said in cases 'like' my AH's ( and he pointed out that despite the common behaviours no two alcoholics are alike) it was going to be highly unlikely that my AH would be walking into treatment anytime soon.
I actually appreciated his words. I've hung onto hope for many, many years. But not once in those years has AH ever done anything to actually feed that hope.
I'm really glad for your recovery, I admire that with everything I have. You are obviously one of the ones that this doc referred to - he also shared some success stories. But my AH doesn't want to get better. He doesn't want to live without alcohol.
He was just giving me a reality check about MY AH. HE has no insight, no motivation. HE has no desire for recovery. Is still lately in denial and certainly in the throes of the disease. He was getting me to really think about what a massive job my AH has in front of him and why that feeds so powerfully into denial.
Doc said in cases 'like' my AH's ( and he pointed out that despite the common behaviours no two alcoholics are alike) it was going to be highly unlikely that my AH would be walking into treatment anytime soon.
I actually appreciated his words. I've hung onto hope for many, many years. But not once in those years has AH ever done anything to actually feed that hope.
I'm really glad for your recovery, I admire that with everything I have. You are obviously one of the ones that this doc referred to - he also shared some success stories. But my AH doesn't want to get better. He doesn't want to live without alcohol.
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Oh Honey, I'm no prize. Plenty of people on this site with way more sober time, and way less relapsing. Maybe he doesn't want to get better now. But he's no different, in that regard, than a million others. I didn't even attempt sobriety until I was 54. I didn't think it was a big deal. It would be nice if you could put some space between you and him. You go to your alanon meetings, or whatever you chose to learn about addiction, and take care of yourself. And he can either wallow in his crap, or attempt the sobriety wagon. Either way, let's make this all about you now. It's been about him waaaay too long. Praying for you Sweetie.
ps....still don't like the doctor.
ps....still don't like the doctor.
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The problem with alcohol and those looking in on alocholism is that the hope that someone may change in the future can put YOUR life on hold, he'll change one day? I just need to wait some more time! maybe if I do this he'll change!!
But what if he doesn't change? no one thinks like that, so when the Dr said it, or aired the topic of the potential of no change it hit home hard, right? I never thought about it though in terms of the longer the alcoholic "career" as the Dr put it the lower the possibility of change, due to being more and more stuck in our ways as we get older.
I'm speaking from the recovering alcoholic side of things and I know from experience no one could have said anything to me to change my drinking, I needed to do it myself, and thankfully I did, but I also experienced the other side of looking in on my dad's alcoholism, when I first raised the issue with him he was in his 50's and those conversations went absolutely nowhere.
I agree with Raider though that you can't right people off just yet, 2 years ago I would have written myself off, but here I am Sober, so a healthy balance is needed in all of this, you never know, waking up in a hospital might be the rock bottom your husband needs to sort himself out.
Stay strong and best wishes!!
But what if he doesn't change? no one thinks like that, so when the Dr said it, or aired the topic of the potential of no change it hit home hard, right? I never thought about it though in terms of the longer the alcoholic "career" as the Dr put it the lower the possibility of change, due to being more and more stuck in our ways as we get older.
I'm speaking from the recovering alcoholic side of things and I know from experience no one could have said anything to me to change my drinking, I needed to do it myself, and thankfully I did, but I also experienced the other side of looking in on my dad's alcoholism, when I first raised the issue with him he was in his 50's and those conversations went absolutely nowhere.
I agree with Raider though that you can't right people off just yet, 2 years ago I would have written myself off, but here I am Sober, so a healthy balance is needed in all of this, you never know, waking up in a hospital might be the rock bottom your husband needs to sort himself out.
Stay strong and best wishes!!
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I completely agree with Raider. I also agree with one thing that stupid Dr said.... he has to want to get sober and nobody can make him want that.
I am 56 and drank and used for 38 years. I am approaching 24 months sober and have 18 months off pot. It can be done but DETERMINATION is required. I didn't start attending AA meetings until I had 18 months sober but I am now working the steps with an incredible sponsor.
I hope he will see the light and decide to get help.
I am 56 and drank and used for 38 years. I am approaching 24 months sober and have 18 months off pot. It can be done but DETERMINATION is required. I didn't start attending AA meetings until I had 18 months sober but I am now working the steps with an incredible sponsor.
I hope he will see the light and decide to get help.
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Not sure why everybody is saying the doctor is stupid. He pointed out what jarp knew but couldn't face - that there is zero evidence her husband intends to live without alcohol. Ever.
My ex drank since his teens also. At 42 he was telling me he wasn't going to going to stop drinking, period. It took another 4 years (for a total of 23 years together) before it occurred to me that he might be serious.
My ex drank since his teens also. At 42 he was telling me he wasn't going to going to stop drinking, period. It took another 4 years (for a total of 23 years together) before it occurred to me that he might be serious.
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Originally Posted by Santa 
Not sure why everybody is saying the doctor is stupid.
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Update: he is home. He was assessed and the crisis team assessed him as not being a suicide risk. They said he completely denied having any issues with alcohol what so ever.
He said almost word for word what the addiction specialist said he would say. He's a bit stressed with work and family. Did a silly thing and got drunk. Said some stupid things he doesn't remember and didn't mean. Will follow up with his psychiatrist. But doesn't need any help, doesn't need detox, and has no problem with alcohol.
So they sent him home with some benzo's, and said they'll follow up each day with a call....but from here there is nothing much they can do.
So the doctor may have said things people don't agree with,......but he did predict today pretty accurately!
He said almost word for word what the addiction specialist said he would say. He's a bit stressed with work and family. Did a silly thing and got drunk. Said some stupid things he doesn't remember and didn't mean. Will follow up with his psychiatrist. But doesn't need any help, doesn't need detox, and has no problem with alcohol.
So they sent him home with some benzo's, and said they'll follow up each day with a call....but from here there is nothing much they can do.
So the doctor may have said things people don't agree with,......but he did predict today pretty accurately!
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Originally Posted by Purpleknight
I didn't say he was stupid, he made a lot of good points!! . . . people may change, they may not, who knows, but no one can be certain either way!!
And he DID say there are people who DO recover, of course. Just not ones with a 25 year old drinking habit who have resisted every single attempt to receive any sort of treatment for this and have never, not once, said they want to live without alcohol.
He said alcoholics of 25 years experience who were ready to change showed some insight, and AH hasnt yet shown any. That saying you have a problem (which AH does to me and some friends) and actually accepting that are two different things.
He also said never say never, but that I needed to hear his experience and that if I was staying in a situation with an alcoholic on the belief that change was just around the corner, that most likely I was going to be bitterly disappointed.
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Jarp-
I suspect what the doctor said was like ripping that bandaid off for you.
It brought you out of fantasy land and wishing and hoping, regardless of what you husband chooses to do.
It sounds like you are working on taking care of you. Feelings, even hard ones are part of that.
I suspect what the doctor said was like ripping that bandaid off for you.
It brought you out of fantasy land and wishing and hoping, regardless of what you husband chooses to do.
It sounds like you are working on taking care of you. Feelings, even hard ones are part of that.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
Jarp-
I suspect what the doctor said was like ripping that bandaid off for you.
It brought you out of fantasy land and wishing and hoping, regardless of what you husband chooses to do.
It sounds like you are working on taking care of you. Feelings, even hard ones are part of that.
I suspect what the doctor said was like ripping that bandaid off for you.
It brought you out of fantasy land and wishing and hoping, regardless of what you husband chooses to do.
It sounds like you are working on taking care of you. Feelings, even hard ones are part of that.
I need to let go of that hope. If he does do something about his issues that's a bonus. I just now need to focus on mine...and looking after the kids and I.
He's like a zombie right now...glassy eyed, barely able to speak. Asleep. When he comes to.....we talk. I'm done.
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I'm surprised the doc gave him Valium for alcohol withdrawal symptoms seeing as he doesn't plan to stop drinking. If he drinks while on it, well at least he'll be nicely sedated ...
Valium is one of the older benzos and has a good safety profile but many of them are addictive, hence the 'whoo boy'
Valium is one of the older benzos and has a good safety profile but many of them are addictive, hence the 'whoo boy'
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I am in yet again a similar situation with someone here. My probably ex ABF is about the same age and probably started in early teens. His drink of choice is beer. Anyone know if drinking 15-30 beers 3-5x a week is easier on health than hard liquor or easier/harder to stop drinking?
My A has been to a few rehabs and prison and started back to drinking almost immediately after release. He never dries out anymore like when I first met him - he would go on the wagon for a month every now and then. He said it helped heal his body and mind and he could control his drinking usage better by doing that. I wish he had never stopped that but I guess the disease just progressed.
Anyway if a doctor told me that about my A it would be sad but believable. Still anything is possible. Sorry you have this on your plate, jarp.
My A has been to a few rehabs and prison and started back to drinking almost immediately after release. He never dries out anymore like when I first met him - he would go on the wagon for a month every now and then. He said it helped heal his body and mind and he could control his drinking usage better by doing that. I wish he had never stopped that but I guess the disease just progressed.
Anyway if a doctor told me that about my A it would be sad but believable. Still anything is possible. Sorry you have this on your plate, jarp.
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Originally Posted by Purpleknight
What is his answer as to why he ended up in hospital with a BAC of .28?!! . . . it sure as hell wasn't due to drinking too much coffee!!
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