wantfreedom62

Hi,

Since posting here in December about my active addict girlfriend (heroin and coke, but now uses alcohol "mostly"....I've hit so many 12 step fellowships, from Alanon, to Naranon, to ACA, SLAA, and CODA....so consider this my survey from addicts in recovery that i've met.

Shocking but true,,,,,and I've not been at this as long as many of you im sure, but heres one sort of mini survey i ask addicts and alcoholics, that are in recovery, constanly, I'd have to say in my short time, probably 50 by now:

1- QUESTION- When you were active, did you have any significant other codependent people around you, urging you to get help?

2-THEIR ANSWER? "not really"....

Here to you all, I welcome feedback........THIS IS SIGNIFICANT......in my humble observation and a lesson to those of us, who are not parents (who might have a harder time disconnecting from an addicted loved one),,,,but,,,,,,WHOA!!!

My comments and obvervations:

1- I think the stats, are average 8 people are affected by an active addict in the USA, and that could be 8 virtual codependent people.

2- IF my question to "recovering addicts" ive met is answered with "NOT REALLY"....what does that tell me?????

A- It tells me, that IF and WHEN THEY GET CLEAN AND SOBER,>>>it is NOT BECAUSE OF OUR ACTIONS....

B- It tells me, any reminders efforts, meeting schedules, pushes, nudges we might do, to direct them to help. MOST LIKELY ARE A COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME! BECAUSE IT IS THEIR WILL that gets them into recovery.>>>NOT us.

C- Because my addict girlfriend has exhibited, promiscuity issues, (many men from past and present almost like she's addicted to male attention cause she can manipulate men)........I often feel like "am i important" Does she give a hoot about me?

I ANSWER myself here: THE ONLY THING and active addict cares about is getting high, people DO NOT MATTER, but they need people around them sure, but #1 is drugs and "staying an addict".

D- "NOT REALLY" means to me>>> we (non family) sig others do not matter when they are active and matter less when they are sober....I've YET to FIND 1 sucess story of a couple that dated then the person got sober and they rode to the sunset. NOT ONE.

E- I am using this education to validate myself as a single man, I have a right to move on, and not waste another minute on hope that this woman will be "mine" one day......I CONSIDER THIS HIGHLY HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!

F- Most recovering addicts and alcoholics, connect with an date someone in their recovery rooms, and tell the sig other "he/she understands me". VERY COMMON.

It happened to me again tonight after a coda meeting, a woman recoverying addict since 1976, off and on active but clean and sober, "did u remember anybody codependent urging you to get clean"? "not really".

G- Their first priority will be to their immediate family, (in this case all enablers, addicts and alcoholics), her ammends and all that will first go to them, I'll be waiting YRSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!

H- So any boyfriends or girlfriends of addicts, who think we are sir lancelot, or whatever, in our valiant efforts to "be there" for an addict who is NOT THERE FOR US NOW, its TIME TO BOOGIE!!! IF THEY ARE NOT THERE FOR US NOW, its "HIGHLY UNLIKELY" they will be later for all the reasons i've listed: They dont and never will appreciate our efforts to get them to help, they will meet somoene else in recovery, they will be so focused on recovery (IF THEY REALLY WORK IT) , they will not have time to give us the love we didnt get while they were active anyway.....


My feeling with my 1.5 yrs of 12 steps and heavy duty since December 2013, is I would like to get this to my higher powers hands, "let go", and I'll think of it like this.....IF HP, thinks in some magical way she's destined to be with me, I DO NOT HAVE TO SUFFER THE emotional abuse, and horrible treatment Im getting now. She can get clean and sober, I can get my life back on track, try to stop caring, accomplish my life's duties, and IF one day she has any fond memories of me, she knows how to find me.

Im getting closer than ever to really letting go.

Hope this makes sense to some people. I welcome feedback from anybody, family or friends or even addicts in recovery. In my humble short time I have not found 1 addict or alcoholic who really was grateful for a boyfriend, or girlfriend or husband or wife who "hung in there"....I think im done being superman. Leave it to higher power. I want my life back!!


THANKS

WF

chicory

Hi there!
After thinking about it, perhaps the addicts/a's that you asked did not want to admit that they had urging from those who cared.... sort of like 'well, no one reminded me that class started at 8am'
'NOt really does not mean 'No', in my book. to me, I hear, 'well, maybe a little , but I don't wanna admit it'.

anyway, other than that, I am glad you are getting to meetings. sounds like she has quite a few deal breaking issues, aside from substances. Hope you are healing and moving on.

Actually, I have heard many here who voice appreciation for those who cared and supported them in their recovery. That's not to say that those who cared made it happen any faster, or controlled their loved on into recovery. I do believe that it takes what it takes, for someone to want to get better.

take care, and keep up your meetings, and letting go sounds like a great plan!

Ann

I think that when people are in active addiction they are not listening to us or any voice of reason, not even their own. They have but one purpose...to get high and stay high and whatever else is going on around them is not relevant. It's not about us, never was.

I'm sorry you spent so much time caring about someone who is emotionally unavailable. You have a big heart and I hope that one day soon you will find someone who appreciates that and is not lost in the insanity of addiction.

Hugs

zoso77

My AXGF didn't care that I stood by her and supported her.

And there was a period of time when I was quite angry that she never acknowledged my efforts. But I got past that as soon as I got into Al Anon and started reading up on BPD.

I'm of the opinion that the addict isn't capable of absorbing such support, so if they can't absorb it, then they're incapable of acknowledging it. And learning this, for me, was huge. It doesn't matter if we support the addict or not, because not only will they not acknowledge it, they'll continue to do whatever it is they do, which is likely use.

As soon as I figured this out, I detached. Of course, my situation was a bit different because my AXGF is Borderline, so no matter what I did, I'd lose. But whatever...

wantfreedom62

Thanks for the responses. I get my strength from data, I did not get my education from daily attendance of alanon, from feb to dec 2013, i got it from Jan 2014 to present with therapy 5 times a week with a 40 yrs in practice therapist who's taught me alot,,,PLUS PLUS talking to recovering addicts and alcoholics in this very short time.

My opinion too, and i made this mistake is at a recent "open alanon meeting" where they had an AA speaker, i asked him....my question "anybody around you influence you to get recovery" he said his wife.
Now i dont know if his wife was in the audience, but also this man is approx age 70, probably 40 yrs of sobriety.
Im also learning it takes YEARS for them to "work the program" properly, many sets of ammends going forward. In NA they get their "marbles" in 5 yrs......so any aspirations that my gf is gonna be normalized in 90/90 are total fantasy. Another fantasy put in my head by a bad support system pre-jan 2014.
Another reality i have learned is not only is 90/90 a fantasy, but they get quite irritable in early recovery, nasty, the lies continue for quite some time, the manipulations, and their previous selfishness which we suffered thru is now their working meetings and of course going to diners. My observations its like a meat market. My promiscuious gf, who does plenty of bad things now "straight/sober" during the day, it would be YEARSSSSSSSSSS before that "might stop" and thats only if she works a program, gets a good sponsor, works the steps, does service, gets sponsees, and etc...

FOr me its lose lose to hang in. Codependent alanonic people, I've met eventually find out they can't be around abusive people, narcissists, active addicts, sociopaths.

Since my first posting in the winter, she's come here twice while i was doing No contact. NOT for me, but her family is from here, but she did do some stalking. The first trip she got me when i walked out front of my house not knowing she was there. I took her to my therapist the next day and 2 aa meetings that weekend. She went back to her state and blew me off, mentioned other guys down where she lives, sounded drunk and high on the phone then showed up again in MAY, but i blew off her texts and calls, and ducked her.

Now 4th of july, I've been blowing her off, I have reprimanded her on her lies and cheating and "put it out there" more than once and her inappropriate sexual contact with family members....all kinds of sick stuff.,,,,,she responded angrily to be expected....and NOW today i got a text she's "coming" to town.

I read on a site about sociopaths (addicts have some of that PLUS alot more), it said if no contact doesnt work, try lying.

In spring i tried " i can't talk to u unless your in recovery and got 90/90", well then she showed up in april. She has 0 in 0 and age is mid 50's.

My phone plan doesnt allow blocking. Im thinking to lie and tell her my doctor said this is causing me health problems and i can't communicate with her for AT LEAST 30 days.

I realize i can't prevent her from showing up, however thru SLAA i built up a good group of men support who are big time into NO CONTACT.

MY ACA issues is if im hiding, then fear kicks in and that feels worse. I might try to lie concept, and blame my doctor, because its quite clear she does not respect my wishes because she's "all about her".

My biggest problem is that i have an uncooperative manipulator, who i can't control, can't prevent, and i do not feel emotionally "SAFE".

baby3times

I think I am on my way of letting go of a sence, I will worry about my kids with my addict exbf but I have courts handle the most issues with him using and getting drug tested before any visiting with our children, I am cutting off ties and thanks for this helps know other people have been there and reminds me that my efforts don't matter his does. I wish everyone the best

Txhelp

I understand the need to disconnect.

I do not quite understand why you can't tell her to get lost...without lying.

wantfreedom62

I can't tell her to get lost, because she doesnt give a hoot, she will show up, if she wants, continue to call, either way, active addicts do what they want, when they want with whom they want.
I can't prevent her from showing up, and actually i could say my therapist, who agrees, my urologist or presdent obama, but i understand if i say it, i say it "for me", because she will not listen.
I have learned active addicts can keep this up for 10, 20 yrs. Im powerless over that.

I'd say there's a 10% chance the doctor line might buy me some time. The more time i have free from her the sooner my self esteem will increase, and i will be stronger.

hope that makes sense to you TX. tnx

baby3times

U should change ur number. I have a question u don't have to answer I'm just curious...

Do u have a feeling of not wanting to speak or see her and another feeling that u do want to keep some contact so u can see if she recovers or not, do u in a sence "secertly" want her to chase u?

wantfreedom62

Hi Baby3times.

I am in such a fog, from her relentless texts of insanity, her gaslighting confusion, and everything else.
I dont secretly want anything but clarity in my head and peace. I would love 30 days of peace to build my self esteem, but its impossible with an addict who won't shut up, is unavailable, married but in denial of all of that.
Changing my number is absolutely not an option.
Best i could say is, this, to anybody, in any relationship addict or not, from your past, at WHAT POINT, did you lose interest in your ex? Thats what its about.
At what point does one not care what the ex thinks, says or does?

In my first long term relationship, it was quite a few years of turmoil where finally i woke up and said "im really done".

Right now from the gaslighting im in a fog. I wish the addict was capable of agreeing to a "time out" but she's not. I wish she could agree to not speak for 3 months, 5 months, a year, whatever. so its a matter of it "not mattering to me"....thats how i see it.
Time will tell. Gaslighting has this effect on victims of gaslighting. Utter confusion exhaustion, despair,....etc...I just need like 1 month of a good nights sleep than i can answer that))

Tnx

baby3times

What is gaslighting? Have u been completely honest with her about wanting space no beating around the bush? She needs to respect what ur asking just shows how selfish she really is, although I feel its not completly there fault its the addictions fault and there mind set. I really am in no place to giive advise, like I said I'm learning and new here, but I understand where u are in a sence. Its easy for me right now to control the no contact between me and my exbf, he is in an intensive program. I am so terrified for when he gets out and can do what she's doing to you, I only hope for strength when it comes time. I know when in serious relationship its hard to let go. Never been here before but me and him have children together so has to always be some kind of communication... I hope u can clear ur head and keep going with ur life! Idk how old u are but I'm sure there's still a lot to live for and this feeling I'm sure were having somewhat of the same felling of unclarity, depression, and a sence of selfdoubt. I hope I'm strong when it comes to those worse moments and I hope u find clarity and peace!

bookmaven

Restraining order?

bookmaven

As a codependent, recovering alcoholic/addict I can tell you that when I was active in my own addictions there were people that urged me to get help. That only made my addicted brain angry and I chose to ignore the begging and pleading and went along the same way I did all along. There was nothing that could have convinced me that life would be better without using. Not my family, not friends, not the law, nothing. The fact that MANY people in my life told me to GET HELP did not make me go out and get help. My recovery is my responsibility and MINE ALONE.

As a codependent in a relationship with a recovering alcoholic/addict I can tell you that when he was active in his addictions no amount of begging, pleading, crying, driving him to AA meetings, reminding him to go to meetings, trouble with the law, having other members of his family begging him to get help, etc, changed his behavior. He and He ALONE is responsible for his recovery.

What is the point of asking if there were Codie's there urging us to get help? Getting clean and sober, or continuing to actively use/drink happened regardless of anyone else's attempts to help us.

I think "not really" means "sure there were people in my life who may have suggested I have a problem, but I'M the reason I'M sober today."

You said you have been going to Al-Anon/Nar-Anon meetings. Do you have a sponsor? Are YOU working the steps? Stop trying to work someone else's recovery program and focus on yourself.

wantfreedom62

Thanks bookmaven,

I dont mean for people to mis-interpret the "not really" paraphrasing i did this week with the recovering addict. We had a lengthy discussion after a coda meeting, she basically there was nobody in her life, urging her.

I thank you for adding to the concepts that "some recovering addicts" remember, but my experience is most don't, at least the ones i've met in my short time.

The REASON its important to me, is FOR ME, to validate how little importance I am to my addict gf,,,who has asked me to help her in dozens of ways from finding therapists, to lawyers, and various other research. Absolute TOTAL WASTE OF TIME.

ALL MY EFFORTS, most likely will never be thanked, remember, or given a second thought, of appreciation, and I DONT MEAN trying to get her sober. I MEAN everything.
My problem honestly? Its not her drinking. Its her cheating and lying and ABSOLUTE %100 lack of gratitude, for any direction, good LIFE advice i gave that she DID FOLLOW,,,(lawyers therapists and etc).

So my point is, its thankless now, ok, no problem i have no resentment to WARNING TO SELF. there will never be any thanks or gratitude coming by way for ANYTHING I did, based on my interviews with approx 50 addicts. Its a thankless diseasen and "THATS OK" but i would recommend anyone in such a situation one of the phrases i've heard in recovery, if they should get "sucked in" by a manipulative needy person...

"ANYBODY over 18, is capable of taking care of themself", if you are asked to provide support services, for someone over 18, ya better be careful. HEALTHY ADULT women no how to get a lawyer, get a shrink, get their computer fixed, and don't complain about being stuck in a miserable marriage and do nothing about it. They dont need "US" to do it.

THATS my advice to any codependent of an addict. BE VERY CAUTIOUS about needy people, especially if there's a suspicion about them being an addict who might be in denial. DO extensive research on manipulation and denial. plenty of info on the web.

You will get burned and never thanked for your lost time, efforts, and kind gestures. WASTE OF TIME!

PUT ALL THAT ENERGY INTO YOURSELF, and be a stronger person.

Also thanks bookmaven for validating. Im learning too, ultimatums mean nothing. IT IS THEIR CHOICE.
Im working my program, by surveying addicts and alcoholics in my programs who are honest enough to share with me what they remember and dont remember. It helps me see what a waste of time it is to "HANG IN THERE" for an emotionally abusive woman who is harassing and stalking me.

I would ask you "who was there for you?" immediate family? Husband? Boyfriends/girlfriends?

Immediate family doesnt count in my survey. I wish to know about sig others, husbands, wives, boyfriends or girlfriends that an addict might recall "HUNG IN THERE", and that they continued into a healthy relationship POST-SOBRIETY.

Thanks again all!!

bookmaven

Patterns and Characteristics of Codependence

These patterns and characteristics are offered as a tool to aid in self-evaluation.
They may be particularly helpful to newcomers.

Denial Patterns:

I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter, or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well-being of others.
I lack empathy for the feelings and needs of others.
I label others with my negative traits.
I can take care of myself without any help from others.
I mask my pain in various ways such as anger, humor, or isolation.
I express negativity or aggression in indirect and passive ways.
I do not recognize the unavailability of those people to whom I am attracted.

Low Self Esteem Patterns:

I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge what I think, say, or do harshly, as never good enough.
I am embarrassed to receive recognition, praise, or gifts.
I value others’ approval of my thinking, feelings, and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
I constantly seek recognition that I think I deserve.
I have difficulty admitting that I made a mistake.
I need to appear to be right in the eyes of others and will even lie to look good.
I am unable to ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I perceive myself as superior to others.
I look to others to provide my sense of safety.
I have difficulty getting started, meeting deadlines, and completing projects.
I have trouble setting healthy priorities.

Compliance Patterns:

I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or anger.
I put aside my own interests in order to do what others want.
I am hypervigilant regarding the feelings of others and take on those feelings.
I am afraid to express my beliefs, opinions, and feelings when they differ from those of others.
I accept sexual attention when I want love.
I make decisions without regard to the consequences.
I give up my truth to gain the approval of others or to avoid change.

Control Patterns:

I believe most people are incapable of taking care of themselves.
I attempt to convince others what to think, do, or feel.
I freely offer advice and direction to others without being asked.
I become resentful when others decline my help or reject my advice.
I lavish gifts and favors on those I want to influence.
I use sexual attention to gain approval and acceptance.
I have to be needed in order to have a relationship with others.
I demand that my needs be met by others.
I use charm and charisma to convince others of my capacity to be caring and compassionate.
I use blame and shame to emotionally exploit others.
I refuse to cooperate, compromise, or negotiate.
I adopt an attitude of indifference, helplessness, authority, or rage to manipulate outcomes.
I use terms of recovery in an attempt to control the behavior of others.
I pretend to agree with others to get what I want.

Avoidance Patterns:

I act in ways that invite others to reject, shame, or express anger toward me.
I judge harshly what others think, say, or do.
I avoid emotional, physical, or sexual intimacy as a means of maintaining distance.
I allow my addictions to people, places, and things to distract me from achieving intimacy in relationships.
I use indirect and evasive communication to avoid conflict or confrontation.
I diminish my capacity to have healthy relationships by declining to use all the tools of recovery.
I suppress my feelings or needs to avoid feeling vulnerable.
I pull people toward me, but when they get close, I push them away.
I refuse to give up my self-will to avoid surrendering to a power that is greater than myself.
I believe displays of emotion are a sign of weakness.
I withhold expressions of appreciation.

The Patterns and Characteristics of Codependency may not be reprinted or republished without the express written consent of Co-Dependents Anonymous, Inc. This document may be reprinted from the website www.coda.org (CoDA) for use by members of the CoDA Fellowship.

Copyright © 2010 Co-Dependents Anonymous, Inc. and its licensors -All Rights Reserved

Ann

Most phones have call display. Don't answer when you know it is her and if she calls from another number, simply hang up. If she drives by, ignore her and sooner or later she will get the message.

We can detach even when they want to keep us connected. We simply refuse to play the game at all. We don't need to lie, make excuses or explain ourselves..."I don't want anything to do with you" pretty much explains it all.

It's not she who is keeping you hanging on, it is you who continues to play her game, trying new rules and strategies when you can simply walk away and have no contact. That's a hard pill to swallow, it's hard to see our part in the problem but until you do you will be unable to live in the solution...a life of peace and serenity.

Good luck with your efforts and good luck if you decide to simply let go and be done. Either way, I wish you better paths ahead.

Hugs

Ann

Bookmaven, thank you for bringing your CoDA information here, CoDA was my home fellowship for many many years before we moved and even today it is good for me to read that list and then decide where I need more work.

Hugs

bookmaven

You're not working your program if you think surveying addicts for validation of your opinions is going to help you get better.

You work the program by following the 12 steps, taking inventory of your character defects, making amends, and acknowledging your part in the relationship's problems.

Do you have a sponsor? Instead of talking to recovering addicts you should be talking to your sponsor.

AnvilheadII

How many NA meetings have you been to in the past week? Sounds like your in resentment mode at how i work my program


hmm, speaking of taking inventory.

I do find your "survey" an interesting perspective. I wonder if one bit you are missing, maybe not, is that for most/many addicts the reason why the efforts of others to help went unnoticed or unacknowledged is cuz they were HIGH all the time? addicts in active addiction don't' want to hear any negatives about what they are doing....it kills the buzz.

addicts put a lot of time and energy into getting loaded.....then some do-gooder comes along and infers they might be killing themselves. dude, I just spent a lot of bank on this dope and have been working steady at getting high and forgetting it all, you're really kind of a party pooper, so if you don't mind.....leave me the F alone!

as a former crack addict myself (among other things), I knew exactly what I was doing, I knew the risks, I saw my life falling apart....i'd been called on the carpet at work, etc etc....which is why I just wanted that first damn hit and make it all go away

it sounds as if you have released yourself from having to save anybody else. and now you can just work on you. that's good stuff. keep it up.

chicory

wantfreedom62,

That's not a very nice way to speak to people who are trying to help you... you came here asking for help. They were simply sharing what has helped them.


You sound very angry to me. Being used is terrible.